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RimJaynor
Canada145 Posts
Saying you scout it at 10. a 15 hatch/15 pool you will most likely lose 1-2 drones which isn't a big deal. Essentially are you forced to just deal with it, and continue on, as a window mine transition will essentially stop a 4-7 roach counter. (in addition you won't have enough time/resources to get burrow). What are possible builds/counter that will work well against this. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
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MstrJinbo
United States1251 Posts
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MoonCricket
222 Posts
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koOma
Norway462 Posts
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agahamsorr0w
Netherlands359 Posts
On February 18 2013 20:27 koOma wrote: The biggest problem with this build are the reapers imo. They can do so much damage b4 Zerg has anything to deal with it.. Seems way too strong atm, reminds me of early WoL days. are you kidding me? they do 8 dmg per shot :D you can easily get roaches out when he has 3 reapers or just 4 queens. | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
On February 11 2013 21:45 MoonCricket wrote: Your reaction to Proxy Reaper into mass Widow Mine is going to depend strictly on your gas timing, the earlier you started your gas the more agressively you can snap back - I think mass Speedlings off 2 Hatcheries asap gives you a pretty good chance of denying his natural. You can't really get speedlings to deny his natural before Widow Mines so I'd advise against that. Best bet is to try and land a scout on his factory and put up a Roach Warren. In general though, I feel like defensive roaches into a 3rd is your best bet. Going lings against Widow Mines tends to not end well although it's map dependent. | ||
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Elvin
149 Posts
On February 18 2013 20:27 koOma wrote: The biggest problem with this build are the reapers imo. They can do so much damage b4 Zerg has anything to deal with it.. Seems way too strong atm, reminds me of early WoL days. Whoa, Zergs now needs to build something else than slow lings/queens to hold of the pressure? I suggest nerfing reapers to the fucking ground again. | ||
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ShamW0W
160 Posts
On February 18 2013 20:27 koOma wrote: The biggest problem with this build are the reapers imo. They can do so much damage b4 Zerg has anything to deal with it.. Seems way too strong atm, reminds me of early WoL days. Scout for proxies, micro your drones, and you should be able to mitigate any real damage. Scout around 13. If you're actually struggling against reapers you can open pool first as well. Try a 15pool/15gas/16hatch, with a round of speedlings to take back map control. This build actually gets speedlings out in time to do some damage before things like Widow Mines become a problem. Not as economical but you should be able to drone plenty behind it. Edit: Game after I type this I take WAY too much damage from an 11rax reaper harass.  | ||
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phrenzy
United Kingdom478 Posts
You could 15 pool 16 expand and take no damage, but you are making lings with reapers that regen away from the fight. 15h 15/16p is still the way to go i think unless its a 2 rax. | ||
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Vlare
748 Posts
On February 18 2013 21:49 ShamW0W wrote: Scout for proxies, micro your drones, and you should be able to mitigate any real damage. Scout around 13. If you're actually struggling against reapers you can open pool first as well. Try a 15pool/15gas/16hatch, with a round of speedlings to take back map control. This build actually gets speedlings out in time to do some damage before things like Widow Mines become a problem. Not as economical but you should be able to drone plenty behind it. Edit: Game after I type this I take WAY too much damage from an 11rax reaper harass. Agree, proper scouting should deal with this quite well. If you scout it early enough sometimes you can just get BO win to be honest. You just have to get used to checking all the spots now. If it catches you offguard you can simply die though, but the same goes for a good 2rax. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 18 2013 20:27 koOma wrote: The biggest problem with this build are the reapers imo. They can do so much damage b4 Zerg has anything to deal with it.. Seems way too strong atm, reminds me of early WoL days. Invest in a spine crawler per hatchery. They cover a decent radius. If reapers harasses from either side, pull drones to the opposite mining site before queens arrive. I almost always build 1 spine with 4-6 queens as my standard opening unless i scout 3-4 rax reapers, whereby roaches are needed to deal with them. Outside of a heavy reaper commitment 6 queens can more than hold as long as you focus fire the weak ones. Reapers are nowhere near their WoL strength, you're obviously not committing enough. Note that heavy reaper openings puts T at a tech disadvantage, since each reaper is a whopping 50 gas. Preemptive roach warren around 4-5 min is decent, but you're probably better off having more queens, since they provide better map control and are able to accumulate more energy for transfusion and creep tumours (which are critical for mid-late). | ||
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qui
United Kingdom36 Posts
At least in my experience, i've become so accustomed to greedy terrans who try to harass with reapers whilst adding another CC that I open for a baneling bust every game. It honestly works most of the time, reapers and maybe a widow mine are no match for speedlings and a few banes to break open the wall. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 19 2013 00:58 qui wrote: For all the problems zerg have, reapers are not one of them really. At least in my experience, i've become so accustomed to greedy terrans who try to harass with reapers whilst adding another CC that I open for a baneling bust every game. It honestly works most of the time, reapers and maybe a widow mine are no match for speedlings and a few banes to break open the wall. Yeah i've been finding tremendous success with early 7-9 minute 2 base all ins. Speedling opening is very useful and can almost easily come into effect around 6 minutes where T no longer have any map control. If i see them expo off their 3 rax reaper opening, i know i can kill them off with a baneling all in as long as i check for mines with a small group of lings. Terrans who open reaper into mine are incredibly vulnerable until the 9 minute mark or so, especially with a CC and eng bay/ starport follow up. If only protoss is vulnerable that early on eh | ||
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qui
United Kingdom36 Posts
http://imgur.com/c8gKo5u | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On February 19 2013 01:19 qui wrote: Well, sometimes you can; if they're bad :D http://imgur.com/c8gKo5u This... isn't relevant at all. Anyway, regarding reapers: If they control correctly with proxy rax, I don't think you can actually hold it and win the game. However if they don't you can attack them with drones, while microing away the weak ones and reinforcing. You should be getting gas for speed, and just doing your best to not take too much damage until queens + speedlings come out. Honestly, they should be doing damage. They should be winning the game in the long run. | ||
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Dagan159
United States203 Posts
For T's out there that are also experienceing alot of Z whine... I refer you to... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=141732 | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On February 19 2013 01:53 InfCereal wrote: This... isn't relevant at all. Anyway, regarding reapers: If they control correctly with proxy rax, I don't think you can actually hold it and win the game. However if they don't you can attack them with drones, while microing away the weak ones and reinforcing. You should be getting gas for speed, and just doing your best to not take too much damage until queens + speedlings come out. Honestly, they should be doing damage. They should be winning the game in the long run. There's an obvious weakness behind proxy rax, a lack of wall in and the T's fighting unit reinforcement point is far away. A simple solution is to build a 6-8 lings, send it to his mineral line. I'm sure at that point, with proper micro, you'll slow his economy down more than he slows yours. Also, if he does wall in, do as much damage as you can to his depots, which should force his reapers to defend or make him bleed alot of resources. As other mentioned earlier, scouting is important. A gas without a rax in his main/natural is an indication of proxy annd you should be prepared. It's that simple. | ||
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Sabre
United Kingdom1086 Posts
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
Meaning you need to get gas ASAP. I once played against a terran that goes two rax with a proxy factory..... I don't think spines alone will work. It makes you too defensive..the widow mines will plop in places where you can't move your units out (like between main and exp) or sit right outside of exp. If you plop one spine per base, the reapers will just attack from the edge (outside of the spine's range). You might think that reaper does little damage but it adds up very quickly, especially if they have 4+ reapers on the field. Plus the fact that they heal themselves. Queens alone are too slow and too weak to do anything against reapers (the reapers will damage the queen a bit..run away..heal...come back again). I wish I had a replay to show this play but i didn't save it. I play as a zerg and this is what I faced before. Still thinking of viable ways to counter. When I see two rax, i will plop an extractor and start getting speedlings or roaches. | ||
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