Ugh, I think I actually prefer WoL PvP. There was alot of positioning and micro that went into battles despite them being over quickly usually. Now it's just a bunch of air units shooting each other, and since they're flying they don't have to deal nearly as much with having good positioning or formation.

Markwerf

Netherlands3728 Posts

February 27 2013 23:19 GMT

#42

I do think with enough tweaking PvP will be all about air builds.
Blink is weakened too much too be a counter to it, MSC makes it easy to stop blink harassment while a (part of) the airforce goes to kill their probes. DTs are solid agianst air but with sentry and oracle I think you can compete against it fairly well, for example I think you can put two zealots on blocking the ramp and then FF when the DT comes letting you lose only 1 zealot and buying you quite some time as you can easily FF twice by the time a DT comes and even make a new sentry if needed.

Problem is they really should have added something to make stargate wars more interesting, for example I would love it if the old overload ability on phoenixes was restored doing some aoe damage against light air with it.

Xequecal

United States473 Posts

February 28 2013 01:35 GMT

#43

On February 28 2013 04:01 Erik.TheRed wrote:

Show nested quote +

GSL winning strat for sure.

And on the slight chance you were being serious...
that's not going to happen if someone just pays attention to the game and puts a probe next to their gas geyser. Even if you managed to do it, they can just chrono out 2 zealots and kill the assims.

While it may be fixed in HOTS, (I have no idea) WoL has a not-so-well-known bug where ordering your probe to build an assimilator on a geyser you don't have vision of will cause it to ignore blocking units and build the assimilator anyway even if there's a probe next to it. This makes for a very effective PvP cheese on maps where the geysers are adjacent, you can send a 9 scout and steal both gas and there's very little they can do about it.

althaz

Australia1001 Posts

February 28 2013 01:58 GMT

#44

On February 28 2013 10:35 Xequecal wrote:

Show nested quote +

If they steal one gas, you just take the other and 4-gate them (building a pylon in their main is usually possible if they build three assimilators).

Also, this bug was listed as fixed in a patch a while ago, no idea if it actually is or not though.

Mellon

Sweden917 Posts

February 28 2013 02:39 GMT

#45

If anything, Hots spiced pvp up alot... And we haven't figured out stuff yet obviously. I'm just really glad 4 gate is extremely easy to hard counter, that alone makes pvp 5 times better! Dt became more viable, Wol build viable, phoenix opening viable, oracle/vr/blink/immo push etc etc, alot of options which all depends on how you play, how your opponent plays and what he builds. I think PvP is gonna be the most interesting matchup to see for awhile, betting it'll take over a year before it's fairly settled what's viable and not!

1v1Alpha

33 Posts

February 28 2013 02:44 GMT

#46

On February 28 2013 04:01 Erik.TheRed wrote:

Show nested quote +

If they steal both your gasses before you get them with 1 probe scout on a map like cloud you lose.

Erik.TheRed

United States1655 Posts

February 28 2013 04:30 GMT

#47

On February 28 2013 04:16 Jukez wrote:

Show nested quote +

Actually it could work. If you send two probes, they wouldn't scout it if they were doing a 13 gate late scout. they will be behind on gas and stalkers so a quick oracle could finish the job.

If they aren't doing an early scout, it just means they are more likely to be looking at their mineral line when 2 probes randomly appear and the first thing a decent player would do is either expect a cannon rush or a double gas steal (so they can just protect the geyser with a probe on hold position). Even if I just sat there and let you take 2 assimilators you'd be spending 150 minerals + the mining time of 2 probes which is actually a lot. Like I said before, a couple of chronoboosted zealots would kill one of the gasses fast enough to get stalkers out in time for any proxy oracle bullshit.

If you really want to keep arguing for that tactic, then please show me a legitimate replay at least.

hox

United States59 Posts

February 28 2013 06:00 GMT

#48

Tested the OP's build out, loses to a blink-stalker + MSC allin.

@Luzian - Gate/Robo FE feels to be at a huge disadvantage once there's a critical mass of voidrays out (8+) even with blink. How do you deal with that play? Would you mind posting some replays?

Re: double gas steal - One of the easiest things to do in this scenario is to proxy 2gate with your scouting probe - you're ahead in economy => just kill him.

Blacklizard

United States1194 Posts

February 28 2013 16:46 GMT

#49

Not to get into the debate about openings, but I will say that late game voidray armies vs. stalker/high templar armies are very strange. Take a look at Abomb's game. He admitted after the match that he probably should have done more baiting on the charged up voidrays, but the long and short of it is that it took about 6 bases of stalker high templar to beat 3.5 bases of voidrays.

You can start watching from about the 1:13:00 or later mark.

http://www.twitch.tv/abombtv/b/371277929

Xequecal

United States473 Posts

February 28 2013 20:42 GMT

#50

On February 28 2013 10:58 althaz wrote:
If they steal one gas, you just take the other and 4-gate them (building a pylon in their main is usually possible if they build three assimilators).

Also, this bug was listed as fixed in a patch a while ago, no idea if it actually is or not though.

That's why I suggested it on maps where the geysers are adjacent. You have less than one second to react between the first and second gases being stolen, good luck.

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