I have been having a great deal of fun exploiting the new timings available with early siege tank play. I have found that you can get 2-3 tanks to the enemy's base in both vZ and vP so early it puts the other player in a very difficult position given the current metagame. Has anyone else experimented with early siege tanks in an offensive manner since the change? Without getting into b/o's, my opening vZ and vP is more or less the same.. 12b, 13g, factory, barracks #2, cc. I attack when I have 2 tanks with a 3rd on the way with roughly 16 marines and 4 scvs.

LingBlingBling

United States353 Posts

January 24 2013 02:02 GMT

It's just the same wol beta 1 base terran you can do vs zerg, harder to do vs protoss with msc

vs toss, better to do 1/1/1 then hit.

Ogww

Finland224 Posts

January 24 2013 02:35 GMT

Been having some fun mainly in TvT with superfast 2 siegetank pushes with proxied flying rax giving vision to highground. I think it has no practical offensive use in TvZ as the limiting factor when you can move out is amount of "supporting" (one might argue in marinetank marines are the core and tanks are just to support them) units. I can see something like 1 base proxy tank marine all-in pushes with lifted rax giving vision for high ground being strong in TvP.

You can also go constant siege tank production with only one gas now(if you don't use gas for anything else), before you had to pool up gas for that being possible.

edit: Forgot mothershipcore in TvP, dunno about it

edit: I don't like removal of upgrade in TvT, seems like there's sieged tank defending everything all the time t.t

StaraCroft

Austria292 Posts

January 24 2013 07:43 GMT

As a protoss I think this isn't being explored nearly enough. If they removed the seige upgrade requirement in WOL I would think that it would be simply broken, but since stargate openings seem viable against gas openings in pvt I think this could create a really interesting dynamic. I haven't played enough to really comment, but if you want to do some experimenting, PM me, I'll be playing as soon as the beta is online again .I would love to practice some PvT.
The one argument I've heard as to why terrans don't want to do one base (or any early) pushes is the nexus cannon, but it has 1 less range than seige tanks, it has less sight range than attack range and unless the protoss got a mothership core really early he might not even have enough energy when your attack hits.

Sissors

1395 Posts

January 24 2013 07:57 GMT

On January 24 2013 11:01 bri9and wrote:
I have been having a great deal of fun exploiting the new timings available with early siege tank play.

There are basicly no new offensive timings. If you attack with 2-3 siege tanks you don't have them anything earlier available, since they are limitted by production speed. Of course you dont have to spend 100/100 on the upgrade, so you can have some more of other stuff, or start combat shield / stim earlier. But the number of siege tanks in your push or how late it comes is exactly the same as in WoL.

Where it makes a difference is on defense. For example after a 1 rax expand as soon as you got a siege tank out it can siege up and defend.

perser84

Germany399 Posts

January 24 2013 07:59 GMT

vs toss it will not work
most of the maps are very large with ramps
and even if you proxy your factory you need still cross the distance with marines to reach the toss what takes time
and even if you have it
the nexus canon revent you do go any further then range of 13
like canon prevent you to getting sight

that is enough time for him to get a immotal out
and
orcale do well against vs small amount of marines

i watched yesterday tajyas stream were 3 marines easily got killed by 1 ocrale

the only good thing is that you can hold of a 4 gate or a 2 base timing push with it

ETisME

12698 Posts

January 24 2013 08:39 GMT

I have been watching Dragon's stream and he has a pretty solid TvP build against a toss that goes fast FE.
I don't have exact build order:
he opens 2 gas, 1/1/1. Cannot remember armory timing.
Build hellions, marines and medivac.
Medivac should come around the time when armory is done with 4 hellions transformed into battle hellions
Expand and do battle hellion drops into main. Then move in marines and rally a widow mine into his natural. (sometimes he doesn't move out the widow mine)
third gas that finishes around the time the natural finishes.
Non stop marine production with raven and tank production into mech/bio mech (not sure about bio mech, I haven't watched that many games) after some number of marines are made to defend a counter push.

Obviously the battlehellions drop are to kill off the probes to migrate the delayed expo scv disadvantage. Probe transfer from main to natural to avoid the battlehellions can be killed off by the marines and some map you can get an early widow mine to annoy the Toss.
Sometimes losing all battlehellions and medivac after doing a lot of damage will force an all in by Toss, which you will have siege tanks, medivac with battlehellions and marines, a raven and maybe a mine to defend

MoonCricket

222 Posts

January 24 2013 09:01 GMT

It's useful in timing attacks if you're clever enough to exploit it, try proxying your Factory vs Protoss and then building an Armory and a Tech Lab, the time between your Tech Lab and Armory finishes is 40 seconds so you can build1 Siege Tank before you build 1 Thor and then immediately send in your Reactored Marines, Siege Tank and Thor with X SCVs and support the push with a Siege Tank from the low ground. You'd be gas capped otherwise if you had to actually research Siege tech.

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