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A little introduction to myself: My name is Duncan, I am a 16 year old high masters Protoss player from South Africa. ("what u have intranet in african how is that possible lolz i though u guyz just rided elephants and lions and stuff?") Well I do have internet and I have been following the Starcraft 2 scene since early beta (HDH invitational anyone?)
Funnily enough this post has nothing to do with balance but rather general game dynamics of Heart of the Swarm.
First off I'd like to say this is my first real post on Teamliquid, so be gentle with my Liquid Virginity.
What I am essentially going to talk about is the direction HoTS seems to be heading in and my ideas of what needs to be done to keep Starcraft the amazing, competitive and fun game it is while making it appealing to the masses of casual gamers. (as League of Legends does)
So by now most of us have seen the Patch notes for the latest Balance patch for HoTS (#12). And most of us have seen a little bit of the Beta. And what I am primarily concerned about is that the fact that they are lowering the skill cap of the competitive aspect of the game. The new timer on the void rays damage buff which is displayed to enemies is the first step in reducing the skill cap of the game as a whole.
Already it was bad enough with their new Auto-worker split mechanic and the fact that your Nexus/CC/Hatch displayed how many workers were on Minerals/gas. Now I know this is a great help to new players to help maintain their economy and such and knowing when to engage voidrays (lol?) but I don't think this is what needs to be done to draw in more casual players into the Starcraft scene. In my opinion this will just hurt the competitive aspect of the game by lowering the skill cap.
I think the emphasis needs to be on two things: Custom game content, and in-game currency which players use to unlock aesthetics etc
Firstly if you take a look at League of Legends, which is admittedly a lot more popular than SC2 in terms of shear amount of players, we say that a large portion of the players play the game just for things like ARAM (an all mid fun type game mode), Dominion (a more shorter and action packed version of the game) and the normal game mode. "But Skiblet, how is the normal game mode less competitive?", well, there is a huge difference between the gameplay of a normal game and a ranked game (any LoL player would know this) making the normal game mode WAY more casual than ranked.
Only a small portion of the players actually play for the Ranked, more competitive, version of the game.
So what does this mean for Starcraft? Well, we should be learning from this. Blizzard should rather be working on new game modes and helping grow the custom game community (Which admittedly they are doing to an extent). In my opinion they shouldn't be even considering touching the 1v1 aspect of the game. Obviously we need things like ranked/unranked, that is a given, but things like autosplit/worker counters/ displaying the length of your abilities to the ENEMIES is just hurting E-sports credibility. It would be like if in tennis the ball was served for you by a machine? You see what I mean?
Now that thats out of the way, I'll talk about my second point, in-game currency and its value for the casual.
Now in League of Legends, which is free to play, most of the money Riot makes comes from players buying their virtual currency (Riot points). With this players can accelerate their progression towards new champions and towards the maximum level. But most important of all they can Buy skins for the champions they own. Now then, obviously we can't make a system wherein you have to unlock Zerg by playing 50 games of Terran. Nor can we make it so that players have to pay REAL money for unit/building skins when they have already payed to just play the game.
But what we can do is this: Make it so that by playing the game you earn special points. Similar to how in the campaign you earned Credits etc by just playing the game. Now we can make it so you can earn these "credits"by just playing the game, OR you can earn bonus credits for completing special objectives. Now what I mean by special objectives is this: In the casual (which sounds a lot more attractive than "unraked" does it not?) mode of gameplay there can be daily objectives, for example, Win a game in under 8 minutes, Win a game without mining any gas, Win a game as Terran opening with a 1/1/1, Or my personal invention called "The Dance of Death" wherein you lose X amount of units that are dancing and still win the game. Now as you can see these are a few interesting objectives to achieve, and they should be achievable only once every day. So, on a Monday there would be these 5 objectives, and then on a Tuesday there would be 5 other different objectives. What this does is it gives players incentive to just play the game to work towards achieving something, and it makes them try out new methods of gameplay, which at the same time teaches them the game and to appreciate its diversity. Obviously my suggestions are not the ideal objectives, but I'm sure you can get the gist of the idea I am trying to convey to you.
TL;DR VERSION: Essentially the point I am trying to make is that Blizzard should not be touching the 1v1 aspect of the game to draw in more casual players. They should rather be focusing on things like custom game modes, bonus objectives in-game and virtual currency/experience points for buying aesthetics in-game.
In this way we can keep Starcraft 2 the same extremely difficult competitive game that we all know and love while at the same time making it more appealing to the masses of casual players.
I'd love to hear all of your opinions on my suggestions! Oh and I apologize profusely for any grammatical errors I may have made during the post. Like I said before, be gentle!
Ps. I had hoped initially that this wouldn't turn out to be a lengthily novel and rant but evidently it has turned into one, sorry!
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I agree with you on most points.
I think blizzard still needs to adjust the 1v1 game, simply because without new units, new changes/abilities, the game would get very stale, very fast. League of legends has the benefit of releasing new champions and skins all the time to keep things fresh.
In an interview, DB stated that he didn't feel he was in competition with LoL. I partly agree with him, simply because they're completely different genres. On the other hand, it's a competition for the biggest e-sport, rather than a competition on the RTS market.
If Blizzard wants to take control of the e-sport scene, and wants to step out of the shadow of LoL, they need to move to a free to play model in some way. Whether it be previous games being free (WoL being free, hots a paid upgrade, for example). They need something to keep people playing. There aren't a ton of people going "I'm going to play this game because I want to be the best!", but there would be a lot of people who might go "I'm going to play this game because there's a SICK skin in the store with awesome aesthetics, and I'm only 400 points away from getting it!".
I'd never thought about dailies in starcraft before, I'm not sure how much that would entice people to play. In a game like starcraft, I don't think it's feasible.
EDIT: I feel I should add that they really need to give all the races equal treatment in expansions along with drastic additions. I watch swarm streams, and it just feels so.. lacking. Especially for terran.
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Let me ask you a question,
How much money does Blizzard make off hardcore/pro gamers?
How much money does Blizzard make off casual gamers?
That is all you need to know with the direction of changes. I don't agree to begin with that auto mining your workers to start the game lowers the skill cap. In fact if you are a pro and you can manually split your workers to start you are still better off than the auto start. But for someone like me that constantly has the game Alt+tabbed it is a nice bonus.
But people do have to realize that as much as it is great to be hardcore and love the pro scene, the majority of the people that buy this game don't visit team liquid and are playing it in a casual manner. That is what Blizzard is a gaming company that appeals to the masses and can be enjoyed/played by many people.
So although I agree with some of what you say, you just follow the money and you know why changes are made.
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On January 19 2013 03:13 InfCereal wrote:
I agree with you on most points.
I thing blizzard still needs to adjust the 1v1 game, simply because without new units, new changes/abilities, the game would get very stale, very fast. League of legends has the benefit of releasing new champions and skins all the time to keep things fresh.
In an interview, DB stated that he didn't feel he was in competition with LoL. I partly agree with him, simply because they're completely different genres. On the other hand, it's a competition for the biggest e-sport, rather than a competition on the RTS market.
If Blizzard wants to take control of the e-sport scene, and wants to step out of the shadow of LoL, they need to move to a free to play model in some way. Whether it be previous games being free (WoL being free, hots a paid upgrade, for example). They need something to keep people playing. There aren't a ton of people going "I'm going to play this game because I want to be the best!", but there would be a lot of people who might go "I'm going to play this game because there's a SICK skin in the store with awesome aesthetics, and I'm only 400 points away from getting it!".
I'd never thought about dailies in starcraft before, I'm not sure how much that would entice people to play. In a game like starcraft, I don't think it's feasible.
I don't quite get why you think the daily challenges in Starcraft would not be feasible? I think it sets up clear and easy to achieve goals and makes people devoted to logging on every day to perform such tasks.
Oh and I agree on how you say the units are getting stale, but I wont touch that issue just yet as I think that is something Blizzard will be able to keep under control!
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On January 19 2013 03:17 FLuE wrote:
Let me ask you a question,
How much money does Blizzard make off hardcore/pro gamers?
How much money does Blizzard make off casual gamers?
That is all you need to know with the direction of changes. I don't agree to begin with that auto mining your workers to start the game lowers the skill cap. In fact if you are a pro and you can manually split your workers to start you are still better off than the auto start. But for someone like me that constantly has the game Alt+tabbed it is a nice bonus.
But people do have to realize that as much as it is great to be hardcore and love the pro scene, the majority of the people that buy this game don't visit team liquid and are playing it in a casual manner. That is what Blizzard is a gaming company that appeals to the masses and can be enjoyed/played by many people.
So although I agree with some of what you say, you just follow the money and you know why changes are made.
I see exactly what you are saying, and I know money is the backbone of all industry and the main driver of it, but you see I'm a sort of an optimist in that regard. I'm hoping Blizzard appreciates the pro-scene and the idea of Starcraft being a huge e-sport where people watch the game to appreciate the great skill it takes. Besides, oddly enough the pro-scene and the casual scene go hand in hand.
If the pro scene grows then the game gets more exposure to the casual scene, and by more casual players playing the pro-scene will continue grow and through this we get a never-ending loop of win.
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On January 19 2013 03:17 Skiblet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:13 InfCereal wrote:
I agree with you on most points.
I thing blizzard still needs to adjust the 1v1 game, simply because without new units, new changes/abilities, the game would get very stale, very fast. League of legends has the benefit of releasing new champions and skins all the time to keep things fresh.
In an interview, DB stated that he didn't feel he was in competition with LoL. I partly agree with him, simply because they're completely different genres. On the other hand, it's a competition for the biggest e-sport, rather than a competition on the RTS market.
If Blizzard wants to take control of the e-sport scene, and wants to step out of the shadow of LoL, they need to move to a free to play model in some way. Whether it be previous games being free (WoL being free, hots a paid upgrade, for example). They need something to keep people playing. There aren't a ton of people going "I'm going to play this game because I want to be the best!", but there would be a lot of people who might go "I'm going to play this game because there's a SICK skin in the store with awesome aesthetics, and I'm only 400 points away from getting it!".
I'd never thought about dailies in starcraft before, I'm not sure how much that would entice people to play. In a game like starcraft, I don't think it's feasible. I don't quite get why you think the daily challenges in Starcraft would not be feasible? I think it sets up clear and easy to achieve goals and makes people devoted to logging on every day to perform such tasks.
Unlike MMOs and RPG games that have daily challenges, having them in an RTS would lessen the fun of the game, at least in 1v1 games.
Think about it: You're in a game. You want to improve. You're that competitive guy. The guy you're playing is... dropping marines in your base, and dancing them until you kill them. He's only making marauders despite what you're doing. He's making 18 CC before any units.
I don't know if you've smurfed at a low level before, but it's incredibly boring. As a higher level player, playing people who play "bad" is incredibly boring. The reason for this is because they're basically handing you the win simply by being bad.
If you're a high level player in an RTS game that encourages specific actions that will reward you more than actually playing the game, it devolves into a shitfest of "Sorry bro, just doing my dailies".
Sorry if I'm not clear, I can't articulate my thoughts well.
EDIT: Forgot to write in my post reply that I didn't agree with the skill cap lowering. Auto mining workers compensates for the late loader, I don't even use the worker counts over buildings because it's so easy to control click the drones.
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On January 19 2013 03:27 InfCereal wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:17 Skiblet wrote:On January 19 2013 03:13 InfCereal wrote:
I agree with you on most points.
I thing blizzard still needs to adjust the 1v1 game, simply because without new units, new changes/abilities, the game would get very stale, very fast. League of legends has the benefit of releasing new champions and skins all the time to keep things fresh.
In an interview, DB stated that he didn't feel he was in competition with LoL. I partly agree with him, simply because they're completely different genres. On the other hand, it's a competition for the biggest e-sport, rather than a competition on the RTS market.
If Blizzard wants to take control of the e-sport scene, and wants to step out of the shadow of LoL, they need to move to a free to play model in some way. Whether it be previous games being free (WoL being free, hots a paid upgrade, for example). They need something to keep people playing. There aren't a ton of people going "I'm going to play this game because I want to be the best!", but there would be a lot of people who might go "I'm going to play this game because there's a SICK skin in the store with awesome aesthetics, and I'm only 400 points away from getting it!".
I'd never thought about dailies in starcraft before, I'm not sure how much that would entice people to play. In a game like starcraft, I don't think it's feasible. I don't quite get why you think the daily challenges in Starcraft would not be feasible? I think it sets up clear and easy to achieve goals and makes people devoted to logging on every day to perform such tasks. Unlike MMOs and RPG games that have daily challenges, having them in an RTS would lessen the fun of the game, at least in 1v1 games. Think about it: You're in a game. You want to improve. You're that competitive guy. The guy you're playing is... dropping marines in your base, and dancing them until you kill them. He's only making marauders despite what you're doing. He's making 18 CC before any units. I don't know if you've smurfed at a low level before, but it's incredibly boring. As a higher level player, playing people who play "bad" is incredibly boring. The reason for this is because they're basically handing you the win simply by being bad. If you're a high level player in an RTS game that encourages specific actions that will reward you more than actually playing the game, it devolves into a shitfest of "Sorry bro, just doing my dailies". Sorry if I'm not clear, I can't articulate my thoughts well. EDIT: Forgot to write in my post reply that I didn't agree with the skill cap lowering. Auto mining workers compensates for the late loader, I don't even use the worker counts over buildings because it's so easy to control click the drones.
Well thats exactly the point I was making. These daily challenges would only be available in the "casual " mode of gameplay. Ranked matches would be completely untouched, therefore those who wish to be competitive can do so without any of those silly shenanigans.
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On January 19 2013 03:35 Skiblet wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 03:27 InfCereal wrote:On January 19 2013 03:17 Skiblet wrote:On January 19 2013 03:13 InfCereal wrote:
I agree with you on most points.
I thing blizzard still needs to adjust the 1v1 game, simply because without new units, new changes/abilities, the game would get very stale, very fast. League of legends has the benefit of releasing new champions and skins all the time to keep things fresh.
In an interview, DB stated that he didn't feel he was in competition with LoL. I partly agree with him, simply because they're completely different genres. On the other hand, it's a competition for the biggest e-sport, rather than a competition on the RTS market.
If Blizzard wants to take control of the e-sport scene, and wants to step out of the shadow of LoL, they need to move to a free to play model in some way. Whether it be previous games being free (WoL being free, hots a paid upgrade, for example). They need something to keep people playing. There aren't a ton of people going "I'm going to play this game because I want to be the best!", but there would be a lot of people who might go "I'm going to play this game because there's a SICK skin in the store with awesome aesthetics, and I'm only 400 points away from getting it!".
I'd never thought about dailies in starcraft before, I'm not sure how much that would entice people to play. In a game like starcraft, I don't think it's feasible. I don't quite get why you think the daily challenges in Starcraft would not be feasible? I think it sets up clear and easy to achieve goals and makes people devoted to logging on every day to perform such tasks. Unlike MMOs and RPG games that have daily challenges, having them in an RTS would lessen the fun of the game, at least in 1v1 games. Think about it: You're in a game. You want to improve. You're that competitive guy. The guy you're playing is... dropping marines in your base, and dancing them until you kill them. He's only making marauders despite what you're doing. He's making 18 CC before any units. I don't know if you've smurfed at a low level before, but it's incredibly boring. As a higher level player, playing people who play "bad" is incredibly boring. The reason for this is because they're basically handing you the win simply by being bad. If you're a high level player in an RTS game that encourages specific actions that will reward you more than actually playing the game, it devolves into a shitfest of "Sorry bro, just doing my dailies". Sorry if I'm not clear, I can't articulate my thoughts well. EDIT: Forgot to write in my post reply that I didn't agree with the skill cap lowering. Auto mining workers compensates for the late loader, I don't even use the worker counts over buildings because it's so easy to control click the drones. Well thats exactly the point I was making. These daily challenges would only be available in the "casual " mode of gameplay. Ranked matches would be completely untouched, therefore those who wish to be competitive can do so without any of those silly shenanigans.
Honestly, it doesn't matter if it's only casual play. It encourages to not play the game. Hell, people who are doing it for the points are just going to do shit like "6 rax opening, walk into base, dance marines until dead, leave the game".
I've been playing online games for a long ass time. People WILL exploit the game, and it WILL be detrimental to the player base.
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OP heavily compares LoL and SC2. I don't get it why people keep comparing two different games. SC2 is RTS, please remember it's not Massive Online stuffs. Thus, people want less competitive for casual ? There is Arcade mode, Achievement system, Campaigns, Unrank ladder and Custom Game etc... Those are enough for casual play in RTS 
And SC2 doesn't need to follow LoL in term of casual players. You don't understand that LoL has to keep and gather casual people who buys a lot of RP as long as they get new contents from Riot every patch.
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On January 19 2013 04:53 foxj wrote:OP heavily compares LoL and SC2. I don't get it why people keep comparing two different games. SC2 is RTS, please remember it's not Massive Online stuffs. Thus, people want less competitive for casual ? There is Arcade mode, Achievement system, Campaigns, Unrank ladder and Custom Game etc... Those are enough for casual play in RTS And SC2 doesn't need to follow LoL in term of casual players. You don't understand that LoL has to keep and gather casual people who buys a lot of RP as long as they get new contents from Riot every patch.
It's compared because LoL is the leading e-sports game, with SC2 coming second.
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EPT
