|
Hi everyone,
As DB wants us to try new reaper play from the patch 11. I tried a lot to use them in all the 3 matchup using the same B.O against each race. I am diamond terran atm.
I will use this B.O of mine to point out weakness/strengh of reaper play i found in every matchup. Note that this is a diamond terran point of vue and maybe in better sphere of play some of those analysis may be irrelevant as i'm not as good as you guys .
I make this thread hoping that some people will provide some good thought about reaper play so we can discuss more about new strategy and so on.
I will add replay soon vs the 3 races.
My B.O
+ Show Spoiler +
10depot
12 rax
13 gas
15 OC
15 second barrack
at 50 gas 50 min -> reaper
17 second depot
asap 3rd barrack and 2nd gas.
this is optimal i think to get reaper the fastest way possible without being too allinsh
the goal here is to build as many reaper as you can early on and apply pressure and stop reaper production when your opponent seems to have good defense. Then build 2 CC and transitionning to bio/biomech depending of which race you play against.
Goals of this opening :
1) kill few drone/probe/scv early on.
2) kill defensive unit and not loose your reapers to maintain your opponent unit count low and to force more commitment into defensive units.
3) have a full scout of what your opponent is doing at any moment of the early game allowing you to proper respond to anything.
4) safely get 2 more OC while continuing being aggressive to catch up economically.
General difficulties :
+ Show Spoiler +
1) knowing when you should stop reaper production and tech to something else. It's very tempting to continue have fun with reapers but it can be really your doom to stick to it.
2) micro : as reaper are somewhat expensive units you can't afford to loose too many of them especially early on. You really need them to maintain your opponent count of unit very low. you have to abuse of the healing ability and back ur reaper when they are very low.
3) macro : it is very hard to macro at the same time you are managing your reaper but it is necessary to have good macro behind as this opening is not an all-in and will not kill your opponent.
4) force your tech path in some way. As you invest a lot into your three rax you want to use those and it kind of force you to go bio/biomech. If your opponent is aware of that and generally he doe,s he will know what coming next.
Vs Z :
+ Show Spoiler +
strengh :
- better at sniping queens as dmg vs queen didn't change at all and you get more reapers.
- force a good amount of speedlings or few roaches. in each case it's a significant investment for zerg early game.
- easy to defend roach counter attack as tank without upgrade is a much more easy transition due to the new patch.
Weakness:
- speedlings are very strong vs this if you see it you have to back safely using cliff paths along the map to try to get in your base. It is also very important to walloff your expand using your extra raxes.
- quick muta transitionning could be deadly too as you lack of AA.
Vs P
+ Show Spoiler +
General note : i think this aggression is kind of simillar of the 2 rax 1 techlab 1 reactor aggression in term of goals , I'm not sure which one has the higher economical cost though.
strengh :
- force your opponent to build stalkers that are very expensive units.
- MsC is not very useful until photon overcharge because it is very slow
- you can pick off some stalkers as P want to spread them out to defend his two base. reaper are better vs stalker now.
weakness:
- when protoss has significant amount of stalker it's very hard to deal dommage.
- you have to prepare for a very fast counter attack involving lot's of stalkers so you better start stim early on and transition very fast.
- very vulnerable to 1 base play from protoss you have to respond quickly. but with 3 rax already produced it's defendable.
- can be hard countered by smart oracle play.
Vs T
+ Show Spoiler +
strengh :
- still good harass unit with good micro you can force your opponent to commit more into defensive units.
- you can safely get 3CC and respond to the techpath of your opponent.
Weaknesses :
- hellions are very strong vs reaper now so you better stop reaper and cancel 3rd rax if u see factory.
- reaper/marine defense is very good vs this because his reaper(s) can follow your tracks make very hard to surprise him.
[Edit ]: some feedback
+ Show Spoiler +I can give some new feedback about this strategy in the 3 matchup since I played a lot of HOTS game only using this in every single game. I'm currently low master in HOTS beta but it means nothing as ranking is kind of weird in Beta.
A cheesy build
First point I want to make, I have a very good winrate with this strategy but it seems to me that it's because it's beta and a lot of people are still surprised to encounter this kind of play. I always try to hide my extra raxes and when I do it successfully it's very hard for my opponent to deal with it. So a lot of win I got with it can be called 'cheesy victory' or whatever.
About transitioning macro
Now when my opponent is aware of what I am doing and this harass is following by a standard macro oriented game. I feel that most of the time the advantage I take is stronger vs Protoss than vs Z or T. The main reason I see with that is that protoss reaction is always to go for a good amount of stalkers which are very expensive units early on. And the 3 CC gives you very good econ to go Bio. In other matchup it feels that the early harass is less decisive in term of eco but it allow you to still have some scouting units on the field. So I would say that you have more a scouting advantage than a econ advantage.
Defense and counter :
Vs Z : I encounter a lot of zerg player properly defending this with a lot of zergling or few roaches. Zergling counter of this is very map dependant because in some maps you can really abuse of cliff jump to kill those zergling. In others maps cliffs are too far from bases and zergling appear to be good counter. Some zergs try to counter this with mass queens and few glings but it has always failed.
Zerg are often trying to counter this play with a push zergling roach. I found it hard to analyse if your opponent is just doing roach for defense or will he push hard with it. When i see roach warren now i delay my 2nd and 3rd CC to get an early fac but it's very hard to defend those push roach/zerglling and it require a good awarness of the situation.
A later counter Zerg often try is a very fast muta play.
Vs P: an opening I have hard time to deal with is a early Zealot Stalker MScore push when i see it with my scout I throw a bunker in front of my base produce marines defend but most of the time I feel that I have a serious econ disadvantage because of the 3 rax opening and because i'm becoming defender and not offenser anymore.
Another counter to this is 4 gate but you can defend it if u scout it early. (it's hard though)
I found that early oracle play are in general easy to scout with this play . If he goes oracles you have a good window where you can do dmg to his econ because of the low count of ground units. the downside is that oracles can camp your raxes killing all marines you make and you are screwed. I generally make one turret close to raxes and 1 in my main base. They can delay a lot your expansion with oracle and it's definitively a good answer to this.
Vs T:
well 1/1/1 play counter this hard as they have early tank sieged. So basically this play is a total gamble of your opponent not going 1/1/1 which is kind of popular right now, An opening of reactored fact hellion is a good counter too. Macro oriented build will still have hard time against it because the aggression is coming so fast they don't have time to get a good amount of defensive unit. And generally macro oriented build are designed to counter 1/1/1 or early drop play that come much later than reaper attack.
Conclusion: After a lot of game of playing this style I would say that it's very risky opening even if it's not allin. There is a lot of counter of this play but I will qualify those counter as "soft" counter because imo you can always react faster enough with your early scouting. The main reason I see to go for it is that it's VERY VERY FUN and make you enjoy the early game a lot. In most of the case you will not be so far ahead in terms of eco but the primary goal is to take mapcontrol and inflict enough damage so your opponent get relatively even with you. The result will be you have scouting/harass units on the map and feel in "control" of the game.
|
Was trying a similar build earlier today. It's a good 'surprise' i have reapers build and adds more variety vs Z and T. I would also add that a prepared player with marauders wreck reapers. Still, this is a good move in forcing Z into roaches, where your raxes already give the necessary preparations for a marauder transition.
|
Was trying a similar build earlier today. It's a good 'surprise' i have reapers build and adds more variety vs Z and T. I would also add, a prepared player with marauders wreck reapers. Still, this is a good move in forcing Z into roaches, where your raxes should then lift, and add tech labs to produce marauders.
Vs marauders in TvT i found that you are wining the exchange as reaper tech cost is really reduced and are better avoiding marauder due to fast speed. Basically reaper do same dmg vs marauder so you can still pick off one of them.
Hellions are a better choice now imo as they deal very good dmg and have better speed while reaper don't deal good dmg to hellions now.
|
vs P, you can cause massive disruption by mixing in WMs.
|
On January 15 2013 19:08 iKill wrote:
vs P, you can cause massive disruption by mixing in WMs.
Could you illustrate this with a replay?
|
I don't know if I would go as far as to say that reapers are "stronger" against non-light units. They have the exact same DPS/cost. Only difference is that they're slightly easier to get to. You no longer need to invest 50/25 and 25 seconds in a Tech Lab. This translates to only about 1/2 an extra reaper per barracks IMO, since reapers cost 50 gas and take 45 seconds to build.
I think they over-nerfed the unit when taking away the tech lab requirement. At the very least, I hope they can bring the +damage to light ability back, maybe in the form of an upgrade? If they dropped the price to 50/25 maybe they would start to feel a bit better, but with the cliff jumping ability they might still be too good.
50 gas for an early unit that now seems to do really bad DPS (slightly worse than a Queen, Queen has a cooldown of 1 and reaper's cooldown is 1.1) seems like not a good investment. But they ARE super-fast now.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Want give some tips from HOTS tips thread
Reaper's Combat Drugs heals after 10 seconds of no combat actions.
Reapers can regenerate health when starting attack enemy after healing process started.
If enemy attacks Reapers, their healing will be interrupted.
4 Reapers can double-shot Sentry.
3 Reapers can deal with Queen or Stalker, if microed with moving away damaged Reapers.
3 Reapers can double-shot Drone (even with regeneration), SCV (24x2 versus 45 hp), Probe. Marine & Zergling.
2 Reapers can double-shot Baneling.
Reaper vs Marine: Reaper wins with low amount of health (~4-8). In small fights with multiple Reapers vs multiple Marines you should micro Reapers to save them.
Reapers can heal themselfs even in Bunker. When someone started attack bunker or Reapers are attacking from bunker, healing process will not be interrupted
Reaper DPS against targets with 1 armor - 5.45
Marine DPS against targets with 1 armor - 5.81
Reaper DPS against targets with ZERO armor is higher than Marine DPS.
Who will faster reach enemy? Marine which builds 25 seconds and have 2.25 speed, or Reaper with 3.75 speed and 45 seconds build time? Well, the answer is... Marine. It will reach enemy faster due to 25 seconds of build time.
|
On January 15 2013 19:03 SSVnormandy wrote:Show nested quote +Was trying a similar build earlier today. It's a good 'surprise' i have reapers build and adds more variety vs Z and T. I would also add, a prepared player with marauders wreck reapers. Still, this is a good move in forcing Z into roaches, where your raxes should then lift, and add tech labs to produce marauders. Vs marauders in TvT i found that you are wining the exchange as reaper tech cost is really reduced and are better avoiding marauder due to fast speed. Basically reaper do same dmg vs marauder so you can still pick off one of them. Hellions are a better choice now imo as they deal very good dmg and have better speed while reaper don't deal good dmg to hellions now.
Yep hellions are way better. I go marauders because i go always opt for bio in TvT these days. Marauders with slow is quite good and you get faster stim too. You can stutter step to kill once a reaper gets caught.
|
Nice Op Sir.
It's rare to see a diamond BO or theory craft that isn't just dismissed by hoards of masters players or above. You've done a good job creating a nice thread to discuss the reaper change and offer some good insights a lot of players will find useful.
not sure if you're relatively new to TL or just more of a lurker than a poster like me but thanks for your nice contribution 
|
I've been messing around with this type of play quite a lot. I think it is viable, but I really don't think you should ever make more than 8-10 reapers. Once you have 6 you can 1 shot drones and do good damage. Having more than 10 doesn't really add much, ultimately delays your tech to something that is viable in the mid game, and makes you very weak to any sort of early timing attack. Granted you can still counter attack, but you aren't going to kill buildings very quickly....
My brief thoughts on each matchup are below.
vs T, because of the siege tank change you need to tech to siege tanks very quickly after opening reaper or you will just die to an early tank push. Their first tank will ultimately shut down your ability to harass with reapers, another reason to stop reaper production early.
vs P, you need to get in and do some harass before the MSC has enough energy to cast Photon Overcharge and have the nexus wreck your reapers, more proof you should transition out of it quickly.
vs Z, you can force a TON of lings and delay their third a lot. I think this is the only place you can stay on just reaper for a longer time simply because there isn't a lot zerg can do about them besides queens and lings (roaches are far to slow to defend), but again I think once you force out a bunch of lings you can go home and do some sort of bio + tank push to punish the zerg while they try to catch up economically.
|
I've been messing around with this type of play quite a lot. I think it is viable, but I really don't think you should ever make more than 8-10 reapers. Once you have 6 you can 1 shot drones and do good damage. Having more than 10 doesn't really add much, ultimately delays your tech to something that is viable in the mid game, and makes you very weak to any sort of early timing attack. Granted you can still counter attack, but you aren't going to kill buildings very quickly....
I totally agree with the number 8-10 reapers it's the good amount you want to have but remind that it can really depend on what your opponent is doing. In some games you want to cut reaper very early and in other you "feel" that your opponent is not taking your early harass too seriously because "it's reaper no way it can beat my stalkers/roaches" then you can try to trade kill those few defensive units with your reapers make your opponent overreact after the surprise of your reapers beating his armored units ( this will probably not be viable when the reaper play will be more known vs Z and vs P)
vs T, because of the siege tank change you need to tech to siege tanks very quickly after opening reaper or you will just die to an early tank push. Their first tank will ultimately shut down your ability to harass with reapers, another reason to stop reaper production early.
the biggest threat atm for me is a well executed 1/1/1 with an opening helion reactored 12 gas 13 rax . You have to get tanks very quick but it's very hard to hold off since your opponent can invest his early gas on raven/viking rather than upgrade siege
basically i agree with all your saying in order of efficiency i would say that the order of efficiency for this harass is
vs P> vs Z > vs T
vs T it's very dependant to his B.O some times it can be more efficient than vs P
It's rare to see a diamond BO or theory craft that isn't just dismissed by hoards of masters players or above. You've done a good job creating a nice thread to discuss the reaper change and offer some good insights a lot of players will find useful.
not sure if you're relatively new to TL or just more of a lurker than a poster like me but thanks for your nice contribution
I really like to discuss about strategy in those forums because there are smart people(and more experienced) around here sometimes. I posted few times about strategy discussions and sometimes I was wrong in my analysis and people more experienced told me why it was very instructive. So basically when i got an idea new or not, I like to post here to see what people think of that and it makes me improve.
General comment for newbies like me :I found that reaper play really makes you improve in general because it's very intensive micro/macro play and even if you screw up very hard sometimes it's very good exercise. and the more important :it's sooooooo fun!
|
I met something like that on the ladder yesterday. I play Zerg myself and I was truly surprised and lost so much to this.
I scouted the Terran and I saw several rax, but I didn't think of reapers since I saw no techlab which recently got removed :-P
They hit so earl that you don't have speed rdy for your lings and when you have 6+ reapers it gets hard to kill with queens. I think it is a real problem that you can't scout the build, which makes it hard to prepare for without getting too much behind. I know that when you see several rax before CC I need the gas for speed asap but the time I use to make extractor, mine 100 gas and get speed takes too much time. I could of course go for double extractor but that would also hurt my economy.
I haven't met this build more than one time tho, so perhaps I 'just' lost to it due to the surprise momentum
|
I met something like that on the ladder yesterday. I play Zerg myself and I was truly surprised and lost so much to this.
I scouted the Terran and I saw several rax, but I didn't think of reapers since I saw no techlab which recently got removed :-P
They hit so earl that you don't have speed rdy for your lings and when you have 6+ reapers it gets hard to kill with queens. I think it is a real problem that you can't scout the build, which makes it hard to prepare for without getting too much behind. I know that when you see several rax before CC I need the gas for speed asap but the time I use to make extractor, mine 100 gas and get speed takes too much time. I could of course go for double extractor but that would also hurt my economy.
I haven't met this build more than one time tho, so perhaps I 'just' lost to it due to the surprise momentum
one weakness of that build vs Z is that reapers can't shoot air so you can just chil with an OV over the terran base and see what are the first units that come out the barrack. If you see multiple barracks and gas it's certainly reaper.
|
On January 16 2013 22:53 SSVnormandy wrote:Show nested quote +I met something like that on the ladder yesterday. I play Zerg myself and I was truly surprised and lost so much to this.
I scouted the Terran and I saw several rax, but I didn't think of reapers since I saw no techlab which recently got removed :-P
They hit so earl that you don't have speed rdy for your lings and when you have 6+ reapers it gets hard to kill with queens. I think it is a real problem that you can't scout the build, which makes it hard to prepare for without getting too much behind. I know that when you see several rax before CC I need the gas for speed asap but the time I use to make extractor, mine 100 gas and get speed takes too much time. I could of course go for double extractor but that would also hurt my economy.
I haven't met this build more than one time tho, so perhaps I 'just' lost to it due to the surprise momentum one weakness of that build vs Z is that reapers can't shoot air so you can just chil with an OV over the terran base and see what are the first units that come out the barrack. If you see multiple barracks and gas it's certainly reaper.
Ah yeah - gas + several rax. Good way to scout it. But I don't know about the ovi above the rax, he can just make 1 rine and get the ovi. Early on, losing an ovi is kinda bad
|
On January 17 2013 00:05 Rallerbabz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 22:53 SSVnormandy wrote:I met something like that on the ladder yesterday. I play Zerg myself and I was truly surprised and lost so much to this.
I scouted the Terran and I saw several rax, but I didn't think of reapers since I saw no techlab which recently got removed :-P
They hit so earl that you don't have speed rdy for your lings and when you have 6+ reapers it gets hard to kill with queens. I think it is a real problem that you can't scout the build, which makes it hard to prepare for without getting too much behind. I know that when you see several rax before CC I need the gas for speed asap but the time I use to make extractor, mine 100 gas and get speed takes too much time. I could of course go for double extractor but that would also hurt my economy.
I haven't met this build more than one time tho, so perhaps I 'just' lost to it due to the surprise momentum one weakness of that build vs Z is that reapers can't shoot air so you can just chil with an OV over the terran base and see what are the first units that come out the barrack. If you see multiple barracks and gas it's certainly reaper. Ah yeah - gas + several rax. Good way to scout it. But I don't know about the ovi above the rax, he can just make 1 rine and get the ovi. Early on, losing an ovi is kinda bad
As someone who plays Zerg at a mid masters-ish level. I'd say just scouting the 3 rax + gas + no expo is enough of a trigger to know some aggression (of any kind) is coming. I think the response from zerg is always the same for this. a spine at the front, and extra queens. Leave overlords around the base so you can see reapers coming, and transfuse transfuse transfuse.
the reason being, you don't want to use larvae on anything other than drones, and you definitely do not want roaches. Why not roaches? because 3 rax opener is always going to transition into bio, and roaches are baaaad against it.
Alright so, putting on my Terran hat again:
I've been simply delaying the Zergs third with these reapers, because most people can lock down their natural and main with queens. they can't get the queens over to their third until ~9 minutes, meaning no third until then. I think this is really good, but I'm just so god awful with bio that I often get destroyed by swarm hosts off 2 base. I've been following up with MMM + mines. Perhaps a more competent terran can weigh in?
|
To last poster : good analysis, except 3rax reaper can totally transition in biomech as well, which is notably different from bio.
EDIT: High masters T if that helps...
|
I generally do the transition biomech also after reaper I am more comfortable with that kind of play than pure bio.
In my level of play zerg people try often to get some roaches because they don't feel safe enough with queens i guess. But i totally agree it's very useless vs this opening and roach counter attacks are often nullify by some rauders transition or with enough anticipation from you 1-2 tanks out.
about massing queens+transfuse I feel like this is a good response but in that case I try to stick on more reaper making my zerg opponent very hard time to take the third . I even place just 1 WM at third to make things worse sometimes.
So basically I feel that in this situation , reaper fit the role of WOL style hellions+banshee denying 3rd destroy tumor and pressure Z early but the difference is that the pressure come sooner and it is easier to multi-prong attack with it.
|
I played around with Reapers last night, not against any good opponent, but it was fun and it got me thinking.
I actually had like mass mass reaper off of 2 base versus some MM, and while Reapers really melt to equal value anything, the hit-and-run aspect is actually really powerful. Once you get about 6 they have really decent burst damage, and you can instagib a straggling Marine while taking almost no damage.
They heal really quickly and they're actually fast enough to escape Concussive Shells. Reapers vs MM feels sort of like cutting half your Marines to get fast Medivacs, which is a valid approach.
I really want to explore further. Reapers aren't that bad anymore. In WoL, they were actually stupidly strong, and the ONLY reason they were bad to get was the extreme limits on actually making them. Now that they can be reactored, they're basically a bad Terran Mutalisk. High speed, medium damage, low attack speed, low health... tissue regeneration... they fly...
...good god--
|
On January 17 2013 00:27 The_Unseen wrote:
To last poster : good analysis, except 3rax reaper can totally transition in biomech as well, which is notably different from bio.
EDIT: High masters T if that helps...
Can you bio-mech off of 2 base supporting 3 rax and get reasonable amounts of tanks and medivacs?
Idk if it makes much of a difference toward my roach argument (roaches aren't all that great against any amount of marauders and medivacs), but I'd think to fully support bio-mech you'd need 3 base eco.
I don't have a ton of experience playing against good bio mech in ZvT, so my thoughts are hazy at best, but from what I've seen in HotS you want Ultras/infestor/swarm-host against T lategame (unless they went air). Meaning roaches are a pretty large stray from the path.
I would be up to play some practice games to maybe have better data to discuss, and post the replays here.
EDIT: The more I play this on ladder the less convinced I become that this is viable against anything other than P in the current state of HotS. This 6 reaper harass followed by a 1/1 stim push has been very successful in all of my attempts.
It could by my transition out is just wrong in the other 2 matchups...
Going straight for bio out of this in TvT is very rough, and I haven't come upon a time in TvT where I wanted all 3 rax. The fact that 1 siege tank shuts this down so early is also problematic. I really think that the gas you spend on 6 reapers is better spent teching up or getting defensive tanks in TvT.
this mindset also applies for TvZ. It seems that mech is so much better (Read: EASIER) to use against Z that you very rarely want 3 rax. The ultralisk change makes them rip through bio units so fast that its very hard to come out on top or even against any amount of ultras late game. You do have a stronger mid game, but you need to be so active with all of your units that its hard to pull off a lethal blow.
|
I can give some new feedback about this strategy in the 3 matchup since I played a lot of HOTS game only using this in every single game. I'm currently low master in HOTS beta but it means nothing as ranking is kind of weird in Beta.
A cheesy build
First point I want to make, I have a very good winrate with this strategy but it seems to me that it's because it's beta and a lot of people are still surprised to encounter this kind of play. I always try to hide my extra raxes and when I do it successfully it's very hard for my opponent to deal with it. So a lot of win I got with it can be called 'cheesy victory' or whatever.
About transitioning macro
Now when my opponent is aware of what I am doing and this harass is following by a standard macro oriented game. I feel that most of the time the advantage I take is stronger vs Protoss than vs Z or T. The main reason I see with that is that protoss reaction is always to go for a good amount of stalkers which are very expensive units early on. And the 3 CC gives you very good econ to go Bio. In other matchup it feels that the early harass is less decisive in term of eco but it allow you to still have some scouting units on the field. So I would say that you have more a scouting advantage than a econ advantage.
Defense and counter :
Vs Z : I encounter a lot of zerg player properly defending this with a lot of zergling or few roaches. Zergling counter of this is very map dependant because in some maps you can really abuse of cliff jump to kill those zergling. In others maps cliffs are too far from bases and zergling appear to be good counter. Some zergs try to counter this with mass queens and few glings but it has always failed.
Zerg are often trying to counter this play with a push zergling roach. I found it hard to analyse if your opponent is just doing roach for defense or will he push hard with it. When i see roach warren now i delay my 2nd and 3rd CC to get an early fac but it's very hard to defend those push roach/zerglling and it require a good awarness of the situation.
A later counter Zerg often try is a very fast muta play.
Vs P: an opening I have hard time to deal with is a early Zealot Stalker MScore push when i see it with my scout I throw a bunker in front of my base produce marines defend but most of the time I feel that I have a serious econ disadvantage because of the 3 rax opening and because i'm becoming defender and not offenser anymore.
Another counter to this is 4 gate but you can defend it if u scout it early. (it's hard though)
I found that early oracle play are in general easy to scout with this play . If he goes oracles you have a good window where you can do dmg to his econ because of the low count of ground units. the downside is that oracles can camp your raxes killing all marines you make and you are screwed. I generally make one turret close to raxes and 1 in my main base. They can delay a lot your expansion with oracle and it's definitively a good answer to this.
Vs T:
well 1/1/1 play counter this hard as they have early tank sieged. So basically this play is a total gamble of your opponent not going 1/1/1 which is kind of popular right now, An opening of reactored fact hellion is a good counter too. Macro oriented build will still have hard time against it because the aggression is coming so fast they don't have time to get a good amount of defensive unit. And generally macro oriented build are designed to counter 1/1/1 or early drop play that come much later than reaper attack.
Conclusion: After a lot of game of playing this style I would say that it's very risky opening even if it's not allin. There is a lot of counter of this play but I will qualify those counter as "soft" counter because imo you can always react faster enough with your early scouting. The main reason I see to go for it is that it's VERY VERY FUN and make you enjoy the early game a lot. In most of the case you will not be so far ahead in terms of eco but the primary goal is to take mapcontrol and inflict enough damage so your opponent get relatively even with you. The result will be you have scouting/harass units on the map and feel in "control" of the game.
+ Show Spoiler +
EDIT: The more I play this on ladder the less convinced I become that this is viable against anything other than P in the current state of HotS. This 6 reaper harass followed by a 1/1 stim push has been very successful in all of my attempts.
It could by my transition out is just wrong in the other 2 matchups...
Going straight for bio out of this in TvT is very rough, and I haven't come upon a time in TvT where I wanted all 3 rax. The fact that 1 siege tank shuts this down so early is also problematic. I really think that the gas you spend on 6 reapers is better spent teching up or getting defensive tanks in TvT.
this mindset also applies for TvZ. It seems that mech is so much better (Read: EASIER) to use against Z that you very rarely want 3 rax. The ultralisk change makes them rip through bio units so fast that its very hard to come out on top or even against any amount of ultras late game. You do have a stronger mid game, but you need to be so active with all of your units that its hard to pull off a lethal blow.
Vs Z I think the 3rax definitely force you to go either bio or biomech and it can be a problem vs Ultra. I lost a lot of game to ultra play. But biomech is still viable imo vs ultra i guess i'm just bad to engage properly....
Vs T with the 3 rax you can still go biotank style also. and it's a style that is still efficient even vs the new mech play. I agree this is very gambling vs T as i said before.
I agree that it's vs toss that this build has more potential.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
