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mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\
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On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\
What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary?
In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place.
Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech.
(I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine)
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and i play terran and i think meching is boring to watch and play, of course you have to harass, but you have to do it in every game hence i think that transitioning to a more dynamic play like bio or bio-mech is more entertainig in both aspect of the game (spectator or player)
also sc2 is not mech, bw was mech, and sc2 is not bw and it will never be, i would really like to see a late game improvement for bio (medivac changes don't really do the job) to make bio play less weak against deathball armies
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after playing many games on the patch,
i have now come to hate mech vs mech tvt more than zvz and pvz combined
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United Kingdom12058 Posts
On January 13 2013 07:57 Rider517 wrote:
and i play terran and i think meching is boring to watch and play, of course you have to harass, but you have to do it in every game hence i think that transitioning to a more dynamic play like bio or bio-mech is more entertainig in both aspect of the game (spectator or player)
also sc2 is not mech, bw was mech, and sc2 is not bw and it will never be, i would really like to see a late game improvement for bio (medivac changes don't really do the job) to make bio play less weak against deathball armies
Bio is probably less dynamic than mech. Drops are terrible and most of the time bio games come down to one massive engagement in the lategame where if you win you win considerably or you get destroyed and lose all your bases.
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On January 13 2013 09:40 c0sm0naut wrote:
after playing many games on the patch,
i have now come to hate mech vs mech tvt more than zvz and pvz combined
How does it generally play out? I think that's pretty surprising considering how good TvT mech in SCBW is.
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On January 13 2013 10:22 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 09:40 c0sm0naut wrote:
after playing many games on the patch,
i have now come to hate mech vs mech tvt more than zvz and pvz combined How does it generally play out? I think that's pretty surprising considering how good TvT mech in SCBW is.
There is an alternative oppinion that BW TvT was terrible and the game should never try there again.
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On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine)
Except mech doesn't use drops.
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On January 13 2013 01:06 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 01:04 ShamW0W wrote:On January 13 2013 00:59 Hider wrote:On January 13 2013 00:53 duckmaster wrote:
I actually like the no siege upgrade, especially for TvP. Now you can build Siege Tanks reactively when you scout for example a gateway all-in without having to invest too much gas into it. I think in HotS we might see people getting only one or two siege tanks when going for bio since they are actually quite good in midgame. In WoL if you wanna get any siege tanks you better fucking want to build multiple tanks/invest a ton of resources to them due to the upgrade. But this is just another design myth. It doesn't matter whether tanks become viable in the midgame. What matters is designing units so that they can create interesting games. Having 2 tanks in the midgame adds nothing of interest - it may even be a bad thing as it delays medivac drop play which can be pretty entertaining. When you evaluate stuff always try to take the role as a spectator listening to a caster. Assume you have seen the unit/ability/strategy being used 500 times, does it still excite you to see it being used the 501th time? Marine split does that, which Is why everyone agrees on it being a great designed unit. However, people will give a shit about a terran building 1-2 siege tanks in the early midgame for the 501th time - they just wanna see action, micro and multitasking. Therefore we shouldn't care about adding more trivial/pointless choices to the game because they are goanna get boring pretty quickly. Wait, so the concept of map control in an RTS isn't interesting? Two tanks are NOT CONTROLLING ANYTHING and they are more of a burden - due to their control and speed - than a boost of power. This is SC2 we are talking about and not BW where two tanks actually deal damage.
Erm. No, actually two tanks in a composition of marine/marauder with early siege mode are actually really good. You know that charge that Protoss like to do where they sit back and just wait for their first colossus to finish with range? Two tanks basically mean they can't fucking do that. At all.
The main problem with mechvP WAS that you could get all in'd in about fifty different ways. In fact, a bit of stalker pressure alone was usually enough to kill you.
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On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops.
There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best.
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On January 13 2013 20:51 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops. There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best.
Ofcourse, it requires more apm. But honestly, I don't think there are any styles in sc which require less apm than mech. In each game I've played against mech, (Master league) their apm was somewhere around 100, while against bio players or protoss for that matter, they all have at least 150. Perhaps Master league is still too low; I doubt lucifron has 100 apm during his games. Mech needs to harass all the time, which my opponents still don't seem to do.
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On January 13 2013 20:51 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops. There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best.
nope, mech is the most low skill required strategy of the game, is boring and is not viable, no matter what they say, they are just shuffling the deck and trying to tell you that now you have more cards than before
just look @ what they do to reaper and tank, they are leading to one base play while the real problem with terran is the 3 base play, the late tech, not the early stage
as long as there is this reaper and tank im not going to play terran because it is simply annoying from the start to the end of any tvt and tvp
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On January 13 2013 21:19 Rider517 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 20:51 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops. There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best. nope, mech is the most low skill required strategy of the game, is boring and is not viable, no matter what they say, they are just shuffling the deck and trying to tell you that now you have more cards than before just look @ what they do to reaper and tank, they are leading to one base play while the real problem with terran is the 3 base play, the late tech, not the early stage as long as there is this reaper and tank im not going to play terran because it is simply annoying from the start to the end of any tvt and tvp
you have a solid and well nuanced understanding of Starcraft 2 and game design in general.
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On January 13 2013 21:19 Rider517 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 20:51 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops. There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best. nope, mech is the most low skill required strategy of the game, is boring and is not viable, no matter what they say, they are just shuffling the deck and trying to tell you that now you have more cards than before just look @ what they do to reaper and tank, they are leading to one base play while the real problem with terran is the 3 base play, the late tech, not the early stage as long as there is this reaper and tank im not going to play terran because it is simply annoying from the start to the end of any tvt and tvp
You sir, are an idiot. I thought mech was terrible and easy until I actually started playing it. When your opponent has a brain, you don't just sit, make units, make factories, and attack move to win. That NEVER happens. Bio is fun to watch, but it is boring to see the same stuff over and over again. People want mech to work because it brings diversity. I get sick of seeing bio get demolished in every matchup, but not having any other options besides bio.
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On January 13 2013 21:19 Rider517 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 20:51 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops. There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best. nope, mech is the most low skill required strategy of the game, is boring and is not viable, no matter what they say, they are just shuffling the deck and trying to tell you that now you have more cards than before You instantly lost any credibility for any half serious mech player..
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On January 13 2013 21:30 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 21:19 Rider517 wrote:On January 13 2013 20:51 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops. There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best. nope, mech is the most low skill required strategy of the game, is boring and is not viable, no matter what they say, they are just shuffling the deck and trying to tell you that now you have more cards than before just look @ what they do to reaper and tank, they are leading to one base play while the real problem with terran is the 3 base play, the late tech, not the early stage as long as there is this reaper and tank im not going to play terran because it is simply annoying from the start to the end of any tvt and tvp You sir, are an idiot. I thought mech was terrible and easy until I actually started playing it. When your opponent has a brain, you don't just sit, make units, make factories, and attack move to win. That NEVER happens. Bio is fun to watch, but it is boring to see the same stuff over and over again. People want mech to work because it brings diversity. I get sick of seeing bio get demolished in every matchup, but not having any other options besides bio.
and you are a gentleman
i agree to the diversity but really, open your eyes, they are doing nothing to make mech viable, they are simply doing random stuff to make you believe that they are making mech viable
mines make mech viable? i mean really viable? no, they are not
free siege tech is really the changement to make mech viable? NO.
they don't want to make mech viable, they are just trying to make us think so
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On January 13 2013 21:49 Rider517 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 21:30 LgNKami wrote:On January 13 2013 21:19 Rider517 wrote:On January 13 2013 20:51 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 20:34 Henk wrote:On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine) Except mech doesn't use drops. There is no rule that says you can't drop hellions while going mech. Or make a banshee for that matter. I know it doesn't work like that in the current HoTS, but multitasking is still core in mech. Saying it requires 14 apm is ignorance at its best. nope, mech is the most low skill required strategy of the game, is boring and is not viable, no matter what they say, they are just shuffling the deck and trying to tell you that now you have more cards than before just look @ what they do to reaper and tank, they are leading to one base play while the real problem with terran is the 3 base play, the late tech, not the early stage as long as there is this reaper and tank im not going to play terran because it is simply annoying from the start to the end of any tvt and tvp You sir, are an idiot. I thought mech was terrible and easy until I actually started playing it. When your opponent has a brain, you don't just sit, make units, make factories, and attack move to win. That NEVER happens. Bio is fun to watch, but it is boring to see the same stuff over and over again. People want mech to work because it brings diversity. I get sick of seeing bio get demolished in every matchup, but not having any other options besides bio. and you are a gentleman i agree to the diversity but really, open your eyes, they are doing nothing to make mech viable, they are simply doing random stuff to make you believe that they are making mech viable mines make mech viable? i mean really viable? no, they are not free siege tech is really the changement to make mech viable? NO. they don't want to make mech viable, they are just trying to make us think so
Your not as stupid as you sound.
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Your not as stupid as you sound.
I can't solve this conundrum.
If opponent lets you sit, yes then mech is low apm easy to do.
But if the opponent understands mech he's gonna harass you everywhere and it's typically harder to defend than to harass, we see this already from Toss vs Terran Bio, Protoss is not easy to play, in that matchup.
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On January 13 2013 20:47 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 01:06 Rabiator wrote:On January 13 2013 01:04 ShamW0W wrote:On January 13 2013 00:59 Hider wrote:On January 13 2013 00:53 duckmaster wrote:
I actually like the no siege upgrade, especially for TvP. Now you can build Siege Tanks reactively when you scout for example a gateway all-in without having to invest too much gas into it. I think in HotS we might see people getting only one or two siege tanks when going for bio since they are actually quite good in midgame. In WoL if you wanna get any siege tanks you better fucking want to build multiple tanks/invest a ton of resources to them due to the upgrade. But this is just another design myth. It doesn't matter whether tanks become viable in the midgame. What matters is designing units so that they can create interesting games. Having 2 tanks in the midgame adds nothing of interest - it may even be a bad thing as it delays medivac drop play which can be pretty entertaining. When you evaluate stuff always try to take the role as a spectator listening to a caster. Assume you have seen the unit/ability/strategy being used 500 times, does it still excite you to see it being used the 501th time? Marine split does that, which Is why everyone agrees on it being a great designed unit. However, people will give a shit about a terran building 1-2 siege tanks in the early midgame for the 501th time - they just wanna see action, micro and multitasking. Therefore we shouldn't care about adding more trivial/pointless choices to the game because they are goanna get boring pretty quickly. Wait, so the concept of map control in an RTS isn't interesting? Two tanks are NOT CONTROLLING ANYTHING and they are more of a burden - due to their control and speed - than a boost of power. This is SC2 we are talking about and not BW where two tanks actually deal damage. Erm. No, actually two tanks in a composition of marine/marauder with early siege mode are actually really good. You know that charge that Protoss like to do where they sit back and just wait for their first colossus to finish with range? Two tanks basically mean they can't fucking do that. At all. The main problem with mechvP WAS that you could get all in'd in about fifty different ways. In fact, a bit of stalker pressure alone was usually enough to kill you.
The topic discussed was "map control" and two tanks dont do that ... even 30 tanks dont do that since you only "control" the space where your whole army is in and thats not the point of "map control". You can only do map control with tanks by blocking off certain passages and having the sieged tanks behind that together with turrets and some mobile AA stuff. For every other unit you need MOBILITY to actually control the map.
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On January 13 2013 06:41 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2013 06:01 Rider517 wrote:
mech requires about 14 apm to be played, i don't see why they want to implement it and let be the game a camper fest till 200/200
anyway, imo it looks like they know what they are doing but they don't know witch is the correct direction to take, just look back from patch #1 to #10, i don't think this is the correct approach to balance the game cause it seems they are trying to reach the goal randomly changing stuff until it works :\ What in the world makes you think mech is easy to play? Just because the main army is stationary? In a proper mech game, you have harass your enemy to death on all angles at all times, or else he just takes the entire map for free. Try dropping 4 places at once, while hellion harass a fifth, while keeping your macro perfect at all times, and control the rallied units, and siege your tanks in a proper place. Of course, not all games are like this. But that is the essence of mech. (I play toss btw. So this isn't any kind of terran whine)
yea that's how it works in bw, in sc2 is a boring mech deathball
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EPT
