EPTOn January 13 2013 21:49 Rider517 wrote:
they don't want to make mech viable, they are just trying to make us think so
they don't want to make mech viable, they are just trying to make us think so
That doesn't make much sense.
Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 52
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
That doesn't make much sense. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9369 Posts
It does. DB promised us that they would fix mech tvp in HOTS. So he was pressured to do something. That was why I could predict he would make such a statement after this "weak balance patch that doesn't fix the fundemental problems". Now he can tell everyone that he has done his job, and he has a tons of potentital excuses ready to be used in interviews when people tells him that mech isn't as awesome as it was in BW. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8038 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:46 Hider wrote: It does. DB promised us that they would fix mech tvp in HOTS. So he was pressured to do something. That was why I could predict he would make such a statement after this "weak balance patch that doesn't fix the fundemental problems". Now he can tell everyone that he has done his job, and he has a tons of potentital excuses ready to be used in interviews when people tells him that mech isn't as awesome as it was in BW. Eh..no. Lets not judge HoTS as a final product before its actually a final product shall we? Theres still a couple more potentially "big patches" + a new balance patch every week for another 3 months. | ||
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nomyx
United States2205 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:46 Hider wrote: It does. DB promised us that they would fix mech tvp in HOTS. So he was pressured to do something. That was why I could predict he would make such a statement after this "weak balance patch that doesn't fix the fundemental problems". Now he can tell everyone that he has done his job, and he has a tons of potentital excuses ready to be used in interviews when people tells him that mech isn't as awesome as it was in BW. What? SC2 Mech > BW mech by far. Tanks / Vikings have such a good dynamic together. BW mech was boring, just make a bunch of overpowered 2 supply 75 damage tanks that kill everything. SC2 mech is also cooler because of Hellion + Thor + Raven (All of which are SC2 units, this makes it exciting). | ||
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
On January 13 2013 10:22 Shikyo wrote: How does it generally play out? I think that's pretty surprising considering how good TvT mech in SCBW is. its not very much like brood war mech after this patch, i feel that bio expands are still viable but why even? you kno? why do 1 rax fe > 3 rax bio, when you can do 12 rax, 13 gas, 1 reapre and then 2 CC's safely because the new reapers are so fast they can pop in, harass your workers and run back to defend. this combined with the general aggressiveness in tvt makes for an early game that penalizes you for going into defensive units, at least early on. With the new changes, reaper hellion and reaper into 3 CC is super popular and do really well vs bio builds, enugh to the point to where i will be meching until changes are made or pros show me the way of marine tank in this new era of standard reaper/hellion early game faggotry. its just retarded to watch my replays, see that my opponent is going 12 rax, 14 gas, reaper, CC, CC and because i went gasless i can't punish that. Opening gasless feels like a losing strategy in this matchup, which is something i think is unacceptable considering the amount of 1 rax fe or cc first we used to see. CC first doesn't exist anymore on the ladder. So they just add on reapers for a while, and when they stop working, they build lift their fact or starport onto the techlab and follow up with either banshees - meaning i have to defend, again, or siege tanks, meaning my tech is now invalidated, assuming i went 3 rax bio, he's going to go double armory, make 4 turrets near the edges of his base and win the game. the new siege tank upgrade removal makes harass 1g or 2 into 3 CC mech extremely good. Reapers are undeniable in the early game, IE they will see your tech, raxes or fact you cannot hide it from them if they control right. so now i'm just meching, because between mines, removal of caduceus, reapers without a techlab that require a techlab unit the marauder to catch and kill, removal of the "mech question" : when to get siege mode?? and there is no tension he doesn't have to make a decision not meant to be QQ. i just hate feeling forced into an extremely passive and mech oriented metagame because of arbitrary changes that are trying to balance a tier 1 harass unit.. i feel that if i open reaper, i will win twice as many games as i lose, because not opening reaper feels and is bad in hots. i feel that if i play mech, i win probably twice or three times as reliably, it just takes like 10 x as long | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:59 nomyx wrote: What? SC2 Mech > BW mech by far. Tanks / Vikings have such a good dynamic together. BW mech was boring, just make a bunch of overpowered 2 supply 75 damage tanks that kill everything. SC2 mech is also cooler because of Hellion + Thor + Raven (All of which are SC2 units, this makes it exciting). Either you're a troll or you're absolutely clueless. I can't really tell which. | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
Partly because some statements make it seem like they think everything should work against everything ("we removed xyz because Terran's who played bio had trouble against it"). Other statements make me think they are trying to plan things too much. "We wanted hellbats to be used as...", "We think scouting is more important in HotS and therefore reapers should be usable at any point in the game." etc. Same goes for the "we want to make mech viable" statements. The simple truth is that which this complex a game they can't control all that. We have no idea what the game will look like in a year. We have absolutely no idea what it will look like in 2 years and even less so in 3 years. I think they would do much better by adopting a bottom-up approach rather than the current top-down one. The beauty of a game like StarCraft is that it evolves by itself as players invent strategies and new uses of units. Blizzard should just focus on creating awesome units, make some initial mathematical balancing and then let everything play out. Maps can be tailored to make the game more balanced and Blizzard can also step in as needed and make minor changes. They will never ever be able to predict how a unit or spell will be used as they are trying to do now. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On January 14 2013 04:13 Stratos_speAr wrote: Either you're a troll or you're absolutely clueless. I can't really tell which. It's another poor soul who has not yet experienced the depth and brilliance of Brood War. I weep for such people who claim sc2 design is superior to bw. | ||
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TheLunatic
309 Posts
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On January 14 2013 04:29 Novacute wrote: It's another poor soul who has not yet experienced the depth and brilliance of Brood War. I weep for such people who claim sc2 design is superior to bw. Agreed. Fantasy vs Flash in the semi finals of the last BW OSL (which is still somewhat recent) had some amazing mech play. Best part was when Fantasy transitioned into these units called "Wraiths" and made them move like Interceptors (zig zagging, flying all over the place, taking out tanks and stuff). Mech is much slower paced in SC2 compared to BW. In BW, Vultures and Wraiths (they were one of the fastest units in the game, Wraith moving at the same speed as a Mutalisk with just as many tricks you can pull off) were a staple. Hmm, didn't know that. I guess since it originally belonged to the MSC/MS (which were only 1 only) they forgot to set it to smart cast (which in the data editor, is the "Best Unit" checkbox). Probably will be changed next update. | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
I think they managed to make seeker missle worse than it is on live :x I think they managed to make reapers worse than they are on live :x Hellbats look promising. Expecting them to get nerfed though D: Medvac upgrade now only increases the energy efficiency. Reverted back to live costs and time. Fair enough, definetly still worth getting. Seige tank upgrade is kinda odd... They were probably doing internal testing on timing attacks and found out that you couldn't get tanks seiged up in time vs the other races. Terran feels so full of bandaids it making me sad  | ||
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ledarsi
United States475 Posts
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Huragius
Lithuania1506 Posts
2 Sec Delay almost all the time. Well sucks to be from middle Europe I guess. | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On January 14 2013 14:00 Rowrin wrote: I don't even know what to make of the terran changes. I think they managed to make seeker missle worse than it is on live :x I think they managed to make reapers worse than they are on live :x Hellbats look promising. Expecting them to get nerfed though D: Medvac upgrade now only increases the energy efficiency. Reverted back to live costs and time. Fair enough, definetly still worth getting. Seige tank upgrade is kinda odd... They were probably doing internal testing on timing attacks and found out that you couldn't get tanks seiged up in time vs the other races. Terran feels so full of bandaids it making me sad Most races seem to be balanced based off one thing. Zerg - infestor. Terran - Maurader. And Protoss - warpgates. The new reaper is so terrible. I don't even know how you go from extremely OP to WoL level reapers that quickly. The seige tank thing is the one I just can't understand. Terran mech issues against protoss aren't going to be fixed by allowing a tank to be sieged without research. Since the issue is protoss simply being able to 1a the entire siege line with just zealots/imms/archons. Allowing them to siege quicker only gives you a better 1/1/1 timing. I don't really know how much it would help against early pressure since they still do shitty damage to toss units. | ||
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ETisME
12365 Posts
or just don't have a role for it, which is more likely | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:56 Excludos wrote: Eh..no. Lets not judge HoTS as a final product before its actually a final product shall we? Theres still a couple more potentially "big patches" + a new balance patch every week for another 3 months. Except the final product of the game will be released in 2 months. | ||
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drkcid
Spain196 Posts
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:46 Hider wrote: It does. DB promised us that they would fix mech tvp in HOTS. So he was pressured to do something. That was why I could predict he would make such a statement after this "weak balance patch that doesn't fix the fundemental problems". Now he can tell everyone that he has done his job, and he has a tons of potentital excuses ready to be used in interviews when people tells him that mech isn't as awesome as it was in BW. Some people will never forgive him to not have his team made BW in HD and criticise him forever and for anything. SC2 is not here to closely emulate BW, it uses some concept made popular with SC1/BW. If anything would look like in BW, just in shiny widescreen and HD, we wouldn't really need a new game. When it is different, guys who are used to the old approach will probably claim that the new version is worse. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
On January 14 2013 17:05 sM.Zik wrote: Except the final product of the game will be released in 2 months. Well I guess the release version will be out, but I wouldn't count the final product until the final patch before LOTV. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
On January 14 2013 19:38 Qikz wrote: Well I guess the release version will be out, but I wouldn't count the final product until the final patch before LOTV. longest beta ever. | ||
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