EPTTemplar Voidray Tempest - Page 13
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Buffy
Sweden665 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
I've been complaining about Daybreak being too narrow which was part of the reason for Broodlord/Infestor being so strong. It really feels like on Daybreak especially, if they've gone air, there's nowhere you can make little pushes to try and take out bases as although the air army is slow, the bases are so tightly packed together that it doesn't matter. It'd be interesting to see if we can finally get rid of Daybreak from the pool and see if wider maps with better spread bases will help with the balance of this, rather than using actual balance changes. | ||
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On February 21 2013 11:13 Nazeron wrote: not trying to bitch or balance whine, but just played a game against HT, void tempest archon with like 3 colosi on daybreak, it baffles me how to beat that as a zerg, my opponent put up honestly about 50 cannons literally. mass corruptor doesnt beat it because the voidrays kill corruptors so fast and tempest help. tried my best to spread corruptors but it doesnt really matter cause storms are just salt on the wound at that point. really hate playing against this and not looking forward to watching zvp, not that blord infestor was that great to watch Could you post a replay? Sounds far out there... What were you doing the whole time while he was putting up cannons? That is a significant chunk of income sunk into static defences. | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On February 21 2013 16:43 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Could you post a replay? Sounds far out there... What were you doing the whole time while he was putting up cannons? That is a significant chunk of income sunk into static defences. If it weren't cannons, it'd be zealots... gas is all you need in that composition... plus, don't try corruptors vs. voidrays... I agree 1 voidray should kill 1 corruptor... but as it is, 1 void ray kills 2 corruptors and is still at yellow health | ||
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awesomoecalypse
United States2235 Posts
On February 21 2013 22:28 tisalgado wrote: If it weren't cannons, it'd be zealots... gas is all you need in that composition... plus, don't try corruptors vs. voidrays... I agree 1 voidray should kill 1 corruptor... but as it is, 1 void ray kills 2 corruptors and is still at yellow health Thats only if you fight while Void charge is on. Goad them into triggering it, run away for a bit, come back when its on cooldown and Voids become dramatically less tough. | ||
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Elburracho
United States13 Posts
On January 04 2013 08:51 Avalain wrote: You should probably read that again. He's not complaining that void rays beat corruptors 1v1. He's complaining that void rays beat corruptors at an even resource cost. And yes, the reason for this is because they are trying to make it so that mutas beat void rays and corruptors beat phoenix. Another reason is that it's not good if corruptors can beat every other air unit. All of you are missing a valuable point zerg can make X amount of any unit at anytime. Building Voids 1-4 at a time will take a long time if you are not scouting that then yes you lose to mass Voids vs pressing S CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC and have way more corruptors will destroy Voids. | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On February 21 2013 22:47 Elburracho wrote: All of you are missing a valuable point zerg can make X amount of any unit at anytime. Building Voids 1-4 at a time will take a long time if you are not scouting that then yes you lose to mass Voids vs pressing S CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC and have way more corruptors will destroy Voids. the problem isn't about surprise mass voids... it's about a defensive air play... you know he's building voids inside his base... behind the cannons and zealots... but what can you really do about it? he'll make a lot of voids, a few tempests, some HTs and then move out... (maybe some zealot, phoenix or oracle harrass meanwhile)... being able to build several corruptors at once is nice indeed, but if the voids are beating corruptors both per cost and per suply, it means you can't keep trading armies to avoid him to max out.... and you can't fight a maxxed army either... | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On February 21 2013 23:24 tisalgado wrote: the problem isn't about surprise mass voids... it's about a defensive air play... you know he's building voids inside his base... behind the cannons and zealots... but what can you really do about it? he'll make a lot of voids, a few tempests, some HTs and then move out... (maybe some zealot, phoenix or oracle harrass meanwhile)... being able to build several corruptors at once is nice indeed, but if the voids are beating corruptors both per cost and per suply, it means you can't keep trading armies to avoid him to max out.... and you can't fight a maxxed army either... From the most recent discussion on ITG, defensive air play can be dealt(in theory, all this stuff is new) with by containing the protoss 3 bases and building a massive economy. Then when the slow ass army moves out, you counter attack the main base and cripple their infrastructure and smoother the main army slowly with the economy you built up. I would guess you would want to focus on bringing down the warpgates, since that storm is the source of all the suffering. ITG also said there were some BS maps in the beta where protoss gets a free 4 bases, which should be avoided. Also, they said that fungle still ruins voidrays if you can land one or two on them. Void rays are still dumb and clump up. This is all theory, mind you, but it seems sound. This is how I have dealt with all defensive play to a super army for all the match ups(playing protoss). Anytime someone turtles up on two to three bases and fails even try to expand, I know its time to take way to many bases and prepare to drown them in A-moved zealots. | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
On February 21 2013 23:52 Plansix wrote: From the most recent discussion on ITG, defensive air play can be dealt(in theory, all this stuff is new) with by containing the protoss 3 bases and building a massive economy. Then when the slow ass army moves out, you counter attack the main base and cripple their infrastructure and smoother the main army slowly with the economy you built up. I would guess you would want to focus on bringing down the warpgates, since that storm is the source of all the suffering. ITG also said there were some BS maps in the beta where protoss gets a free 4 bases, which should be avoided. Also, they said that fungle still ruins voidrays if you can land one or two on them. Void rays are still dumb and clump up. This is all theory, mind you, but it seems sound. This is how I have dealt with all defensive play to a super army for all the match ups(playing protoss). Anytime someone turtles up on two to three bases and fails even try to expand, I know its time to take way to many bases and prepare to drown them in A-moved zealots. Yeah, I've watched the latest ITG, but even though it makes sense as a best response atm, I still don't think it's a good one... I've been watching IdrA try that exact concept, and I always feel that the protoss could have moved out just until they reached a 4th base, instead of going all in... runbies are always good, but against this extremely gas heavy build, cannons should be up before the protoss move out... also, about immobility, with the MSC, you have 2x recall to deal with army movement... about the FG, even though voidrays still clump up, projectile shots give the protoss a chance to respread once he sees he's clumping up (I'm not saying with the projectile on flight, but as sson as they start clumping, if you fix it, you probably won't get all of them fungaled)... also, tempests outrange infestors and can snipe them handily, and with the damage nerfs, it takes 4 FG to get past the shields, which is more than enough time to move your tempests or HT to better position to save the clumped/fungaled voids... | ||
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