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Russian Federation4295 Posts
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Add slow effect for Corruptor's ability, so with 20% more damage it also will slow down enemy air unit by 20-50% (numbers can be tweaked). so corruptors will be able to slow some enemy air units and fight with them, like they should be.
The reason is because phoenixes now can kite Corruptors with 7 range, and mutalisks just can fly away and regenerate. Corruptors with their speed can't do much damage. Also it will be a soft counter against new Medivacs. Plus it will work better against kiting Tempests.
Make them able to slow down one enemy target (1 corruptor slows one enemy unit for short time). And/or separate these abilities, so slow effect will work only on air units, but will not work against ground targets.
Please, support this idea. Now corruptor is really boring unit. If it will ruing ZvT with slow vikings, just buff Thor's High-Impact payload against armored targets.
So in result what is the suggestion:
- Corruption now slow downs one enemy air unit from 20% to 50% (number can be tweaked)
- Slow effect works only against air units
- Corruptors will be able to slow down enemy Medivac / Phoenix / Mutalisk / Oracle / kiting Tempests / speed Prizm
- ZvZ will be more interesting instead Mutalisk-vs-Mutalisks wars. Now you will make Corruptors as real counter to mutalisks. Currently Corruptors don't work against Mutalisks, because buffed speed for Mutas and their regeneration
tl:dr: Corruption ability must slow down enemy air unit for 20%-50% (numbers can be tweaked) for short time, maybe same as damage buff lasts. Make them viable counter against quick targets.
Suppport this thread if you like this idea
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6160656057
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Corruptors are meant to be good against massive targets, or for zoning faster units. Which still works, so I don't quite see the problem.
Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 13 2012 20:44 blackbrrd wrote:
Corruptors are meant to be good against massive targets, or for zoning faster units. Which still works, so I don't quite see the problem.
Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability.
They can't reach Phoenixes and Mutalisks, both units are very fast in HotS and phoenixes also able to kite corruptors
Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability.
So you still prefer muta-vs-muta wars in ZvZ? Isn't it boring? With slow effect of corruption per target, corruptors will be able to slow some mutalisks and fight with them normally. Right now they can do some shots, then muta regenerates health and attacks somewhere in other place, like nothing happend and like zerg didn't built corruptors. They're worse as counter to mutalisks/phoenixes now. Plus it will buff a bit zerg air.
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Abilities that slow down the mobility of other units are always dangerous to design. I'm not saying that time warp and concussive shells are necessarily bad, but if you can slow down enemy units then you can make sure that you kill almost every enemy unit in engagements (if you have an army lead at the time) because the enemy can't outrun you. With concussive shells in WoL already sufficiently demonstrating the danger of games becoming extremely onesided simply because a group of army was got caught off guard by a group of mauraders, maybe we should consider a little more about adding more mobility-decreasing skills (since we already have plenty of them: time warp, concussive shells, fungal growth, force fields: in a way), not to mention the corruptor is still one of the stronger anti-air units in the game. However, I do agree that the corruptor can be slightly tweaked to be a more interesting unit to both watch and use.
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anti-micro abilities are not fun to watch. Different angle to look at the corrupter would help.
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i would rather sse phoenix range and mutaspeed reverted so corruptor are fine vs phoenix again.
but agree corruptor needs to be changed. they need something that helps vs ground like phoenix and viking have. nothing too strong but right now they are 100% dead supply after air units of opponent are dead (and no: you dont just morph them into BLs because you dont always have greater spire and min/gas to do that). QXC mentioned some very nice idea like the corruptor suiciding himself on a ground unit and doing X amount of damage or sth. like that would be nice.
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How about instead of slowing down the target it increases the corruptors speed? No anti-micro mumbo jumbo and in essence does the same thing. Only bad thing is that corruptors can't have a catchy name like turbovacs or ferrarilords :p
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Yeah, not a good idea. Currently Terran still can't win late game TvZ when kiting Corruptors with Vikings, and as many people have mentioned above there are simply better ways to make alternative options to mutas in ZvZ. I feel like we need to give Zerg some time to develop counters; 6+ Queen / Spore does incredibly well vs Mutas in low-medium numbers in my experience, and they still have fungal if the other player over commits (burrow infestors into 0 range sneak attack fungal?).
On December 13 2012 20:49 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 20:44 blackbrrd wrote:
Corruptors are meant to be good against massive targets, or for zoning faster units. Which still works, so I don't quite see the problem.
Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability. They can't reach Phoenixes and Mutalisks, both units are very fast in HotS and phoenixes also able to kite corruptors
That's not what zoning means, zoning means staying by a high priority target (i.e. brood lords, mineral line) so that the opponent's faster units (i.e. mutalisks, pheonix) can't engage them, rendering their mobility worthless. And I agree, abilities like Concussive Shell are simply boring unless the opponent has a way to counter-act the effects.
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I'd love to have something on them that affects(=corruputs) units. But probably not a slow, though it makes sense. But slow is kind of reserved for the marauder. And the Infestor already does something similar for zerg through fungal.
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i think zerg does need a stronger late game anti air unit.
it's really hard to kill sky terran when corruptors are sniped by vikings and their attacks get blocked by pdds
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
On December 13 2012 21:26 ETisME wrote:
i think zerg does need a stronger late game anti air unit.
it's really hard to kill sky terran when corruptors are sniped by vikings and their attacks get blocked by pdds
For compensation Thor's HIP can be buffed against corruptors.
anti-micro abilities are not fun to watch. Different angle to look at the corrupter would help.
Are ZvZ muta wars fun to watch without scourges?
I'm not saying that time warp and concussive shells are necessarily bad, but if you can slow down enemy units then you can make sure that you kill almost every enemy unit in engagements (if you have an army lead at the time) because the enemy can't outrun you.
For compensation Corruption ability range can be lowered by 1-2, so it will be harder to target mutalisks that are flying away quickly. Corruptors vs Mutas will be like spiders, if you get too close, then it's a trap to you.
How about instead of slowing down the target it increases the corruptors speed?
Man, we already have a lot speed-buff things in the game. What about more interesting mechanics? Like lower range corruption.
I feel like we need to give Zerg some time to develop counters; 6+ Queen / Spore does incredibly well vs Mutas
Not works normally, mutalisks now can regenerate quickly and fly away. Even with new projectile fungal, mutalisks are more ultimate solution now, like ultralisks. To counter them, you can't do other units, just make mutas/ultras too.
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On December 13 2012 21:26 ETisME wrote:
i think zerg does need a stronger late game anti air unit.
it's really hard to kill sky terran when corruptors are sniped by vikings and their attacks get blocked by pdds
I think Terran really need a stronger late game anti air unit.
it's really hard to kill Broodlords when vikings are sniped by corruptors/Infested Terrans and they get held in place by fg
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On December 13 2012 21:33 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 21:26 ETisME wrote:
i think zerg does need a stronger late game anti air unit.
it's really hard to kill sky terran when corruptors are sniped by vikings and their attacks get blocked by pdds I think Terran really need a stronger late game anti air unit. it's really hard to kill Broodlords when vikings are sniped by corruptors/Infested Terrans and they get held in place by fg
Fungal and infested terrans got nerfed - which is the right approach. Terran air is plenty strong with the Vikings.
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On December 13 2012 21:33 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 21:26 ETisME wrote:
i think zerg does need a stronger late game anti air unit.
it's really hard to kill sky terran when corruptors are sniped by vikings and their attacks get blocked by pdds I think Terran really need a stronger late game anti air unit. it's really hard to kill Broodlords when vikings are sniped by corruptors/Infested Terrans and they get held in place by fg
you are talking in pre patch fungal and egg hp.
once you get enough BCs, infested terrans die extremely quickly to BCs and the vikings constantly can snipe off corruptors when pdds are helping out.
3-3 BCs are BEAST
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On December 13 2012 20:49 Existor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 20:44 blackbrrd wrote:
Corruptors are meant to be good against massive targets, or for zoning faster units. Which still works, so I don't quite see the problem.
Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability. They can't reach Phoenixes and Mutalisks, both units are very fast in HotS and phoenixes also able to kite corruptors Show nested quote +Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability. So you still prefer muta-vs-muta wars in ZvZ? Isn't it boring? With slow effect of corruption per target, corruptors will be able to slow some mutalisks and fight with them normally. Right now they can do some shots, then muta regenerates health and attacks somewhere in other place, like nothing happend and like zerg didn't built corruptors. They're worse as counter to mutalisks/phoenixes now. Plus it will buff a bit zerg air.
No. Muta vs. Muta can be very exciting (see BW). Furthermore, Corruptors aren't meant to be good against everything; they can currently take on pretty much every air unit in the game, so a slow would just buff them even more. Along those lines, Corruptors are boring. We don't want to see more of them because there's nothing to them (no interesting abilities or micro to speak of). Finally, you don't just buff Corruptors because they can't deal with certain air, you buff Corruptors because Zerg has a hard time dealing with air, and as of yet, this doesn't seem like a problem. Even if Zerg develops AA problems, you can always buff other units; no need to buff the Corruptor with this ability. Slowing mechanics should be kept to rare cases because they discourage or eliminate micro, and micro capability 1) increases the skill ceiling dramatically and 2) makes the game far more enjoyable to watch and play.
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On December 13 2012 21:45 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 21:33 rEalGuapo wrote:On December 13 2012 21:26 ETisME wrote:
i think zerg does need a stronger late game anti air unit.
it's really hard to kill sky terran when corruptors are sniped by vikings and their attacks get blocked by pdds I think Terran really need a stronger late game anti air unit. it's really hard to kill Broodlords when vikings are sniped by corruptors/Infested Terrans and they get held in place by fg you are talking in pre patch fungal and egg hp. once you get enough BCs, infested terrans die extremely quickly to BCs and the vikings constantly can snipe off corruptors when pdds are helping out. 3-3 BCs are BEAST
Not to mention the few HotS changes to help with BLs: shared upgrade, HunterBroodlordSeekerMissile, Thor Hip mode
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On December 13 2012 21:49 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 20:49 Existor wrote:On December 13 2012 20:44 blackbrrd wrote:
Corruptors are meant to be good against massive targets, or for zoning faster units. Which still works, so I don't quite see the problem.
Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability. They can't reach Phoenixes and Mutalisks, both units are very fast in HotS and phoenixes also able to kite corruptors Slowing - like concussion shells - is one of the most boring abilities in the game and I don't want another such ability. So you still prefer muta-vs-muta wars in ZvZ? Isn't it boring? With slow effect of corruption per target, corruptors will be able to slow some mutalisks and fight with them normally. Right now they can do some shots, then muta regenerates health and attacks somewhere in other place, like nothing happend and like zerg didn't built corruptors. They're worse as counter to mutalisks/phoenixes now. Plus it will buff a bit zerg air. No. Muta vs. Muta can be very exciting (see BW). Furthermore, Corruptors aren't meant to be good against everything; they can currently take on pretty much every air unit in the game, so a slow would just buff them even more. Along those lines, Corruptors are boring. We don't want to see more of them because there's nothing to them (no interesting abilities or micro to speak of). Finally, you don't just buff Corruptors because they can't deal with certain air, you buff Corruptors because Zerg has a hard time dealing with air, and as of yet, this doesn't seem like a problem. Even if Zerg develops AA problems, you can always buff other units; no need to buff the Corruptor with this ability. Slowing mechanics should be kept to rare cases because they discourage or eliminate micro, and micro capability 1) increases the skill ceiling dramatically and 2) makes the game far more enjoyable to watch and play.
Sry, but Muta vs Muta is crap in both games.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
No. Muta vs. Muta can be very exciting (see BW). Furthermore, Corruptors aren't meant to be good against everything; they can currently take on pretty much every air unit in the game, so a slow would just buff them even more. Along those lines, Corruptors are boring. We don't want to see more of them because there's nothing to them (no interesting abilities or micro to speak of). Finally, you don't just buff Corruptors because they can't deal with certain air, you buff Corruptors because Zerg has a hard time dealing with air, and as of yet, this doesn't seem like a problem. Even if Zerg develops AA problems, you can always buff other units; no need to buff the Corruptor with this ability. Slowing mechanics should be kept to rare cases because they discourage or eliminate micro, and micro capability 1) increases the skill ceiling dramatically and 2) makes the game far more enjoyable to watch and play.
So you want to say, that muta-vs-muta wars more interesting to watch than "Oh, mutalisks was slowed down by corruptors! Mutalisks are in trap now, but some mutas were able to fly away" instead "Who have more mutas right now? Hmm, lets look who wins here"
Everything can be balanced. Like corruption will slow down only by 20%, so it means mutalisks will be still able to fly away from corruptors, just a bit slower -> a bit easier to fight against mutas and fungal them. Or it can slow by 50%, but corruptor's speed will be nerfed to 2.75 (a bit)
New compisition can be in ZvZ - fungal+corruptors, that will nicely counter heavy Muta play. And it will require skill with fungaling mutalisks AND corrupting every mutalisk with each corruptor.
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What about an melee ability that could be activated when the corruptor is within 400 range from an enemy target. It doubles the corruptors damage but the corruptor is permanently stuck on the enemy target until it's dead. Corruptor can't use the melee ability simultaneously and the ability would have to be on cooldown.
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If the corruptor gets ANY new ability. Its damage, the fucking amor, the hp has to be reduced or something else has to be nerfed. They kill carriers and BC like they were flies with corruption and you can transform them into one of the strongest units ingame
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EPT
