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On December 06 2012 16:31 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
They're fragile and have short range, so they don't work well in deathballs. And you have to be sure you're not caught with that precious harass unit.
If you have just 5 marines... you can fend one off. Compare that with the banshee, where you can cloak and infinitely kite marines. Oracle is a different harass unit though; it has interesting abilities and is faster, so it harasses in its own way. It can fly in and pick off marines as they build, unlike banshees (because banshees can't run away from marines if they get a surround on you)
Also don't you think these air units need to be GREAT at harassing? Otherwise they will just die to a straight up fight.
I feel that making units great is the best idea Blizzard had in this patch. I want units that people fear and I am happy about building.
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They have the highest DPS of anything I've ever seen...
I've been opening hydra now (fuck yeah Lair speed). If you have three a queen will die super fucking fast. Spores also do nothing (lolol).
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On December 07 2012 02:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 02:44 Inf-badguy wrote:On December 07 2012 00:55 Piousflea wrote:
Gas-for-gas an oracle is the same as 1.5 Banshees:
1 Oracle = 29.1 DPS vs light = 19.4 DPS per 100 gas
1 Banshee = 19.2 DPS per 100 gas, against both light and armored
Oracles have 1 less range, have 160 hp+shields (107 hp / 100 gas) versus 140 HP for a banshee, and cannot cloak. Oh yeah, and their attack costs energy. In return they move a heckuva lot faster.
I think it's balanced. What about their attack mechanism? I think the banshee can't actually kill workers as quickly as the current oracle given the way the damage is distribute, despite their DPS being identical. Huh? Banshees 2 shot workers. How is the damage "distributed" to prevent they from killing workers quickly?
I'm having difficulty finding the exact numbers for this but the banshee's attack rate is slower than the oracles and there is a more significant period of cool down between shot fired than what is seen with the current oracle pulsar beam. A banshee needs to fire, wait and fire again whereas the oracle attack period is much shorter and once a worker dies it can immediately swap to its next target, without needing to wait for weapon fire cool down.
edit: I should also add that the oracle has a faster movement and acceleration which allows it to effectively make up the distance between targets, an area where the banshee's range would give it a hypothetical advantage.
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Looks like the oracle is finally a mutalisk with forcefields.
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OT: What are the icons/counters above the minimap? I assume one is the worker count, but what are the others?
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On December 07 2012 02:23 kcdc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 01:58 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On December 06 2012 18:31 BeyondCtrL wrote:
I'm just jerking off to how smooth your upload is. I'm assuming it's 720p/60fps and a bitrate around 2.8k+? I really wish every stream was like this :< Yeah, those are exactly my stream settings, actually After reading some of the thoughts in this thread, I'm starting to be a little more convinced that the buff isn't horribly OP. I would still be in favor of a bit of a tone down. I think, regardless, it's nice to have a more reliable harass unit than Phoenix, and I now have a few more ideas on how to do fun things with Skytoss. Thanks for all the feedback and helping me make sense of my initial "WTF?!??!" reaction lol We understand, the thought of Protoss having one of the premier worker-killing units in the game is a little disorienting. It's almost like Blizzard wanted Protoss players to use their APM.
I know, right?!?! Madness!!!
On December 07 2012 04:04 ThirdDegree wrote:
OT: What are the icons/counters above the minimap? I assume one is the worker count, but what are the others?
From left to right: Idle Workers, Army, Warpgates (the number reflects how many are off cooldown)
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
One question, can oracles atack buildings now?
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On December 07 2012 04:07 Existor wrote:
One question, can oracles atack buildings now?
They can still attack buildings, yes.
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On December 06 2012 16:05 neoghaleon55 wrote:
can it attack buildings anymore?
I feel like early sporecrawler is a must
but at the rate of which it kills workers, people might just suicide them in to rape mineral lines....
Not sure I like this either.
I belive that it can still attack buildings. In the video the hatchery is damaged by Oracles.
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On December 06 2012 16:52 Fragile51 wrote:
Oh shit, it's like a banshee without cloak!
...That relies on energy to attack..
I'm sorry, what is the big issue here again?
That they can deal with an entire mineral line before they run out of energy. Obviously nobody can tell if this is going to be OP since this is just one game, but if consider that Marines without Shield only have 5 more hp than Drones, i really fear what a few Oracles can do.
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One thing I wonder is how much Oracles will help on defense.
That is, typically the response in WoL to seeing that a Protoss has really committed a lot of gas to Stargate is to either just go kill him (if you're Toss or Terran), or else expand like crazy with a bunch of queens and maybe some spores and know he cant really punish you well enough to stop it (Zerg).
Obviously, Oracles are way too effective at killing workers for the "mass expand with minimal adjustments" strat to work.
But what about the "just go kill him" approach? That is, if an opponent just decides to counter and go all-in with ground units, can Protoss stop them? Often in WoL, the answer was no.
But that was before Protoss got a unit that can 2 shot lings and marines and kill a Zealot in 6 seconds. And here's how they stack up against T1 anti-air (calculations based on dps for hp, and accounting that these units have higher range than the Oracle and will therefore hit first):
An Oracle will only take 12 damage from a marine before it kills it. In fact, an Oracle can take on 4 marines directly and win.
An Oracle kills a Queen straight up, with about 50 hp to spare--although a transfuse will even things out.
An Oralce will take about 70 damage killing a Stalker
So while ideally you want to be out harassing with the Oracle, if the opponent does just decide to go all-in with ground units, the Oracle can pitch in and be quite useful. Not just by timewarping, but by attacking straight up.
Factor in the fact that Voids now deal better damage both overall and while charged, Stargate units might not leave you so vulnerable on defense.
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On December 07 2012 01:26 awesomoecalypse wrote:
So in what way is Oracle harass not > phoenix harass?
PvP where both go stargate builds. That's about it. If that happens then pheonix is far better.
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On December 07 2012 03:27 D4V3Z02 wrote:
Looks like the oracle is finally a mutalisk with forcefields.
If this is what the Oracle looks like at release, I'm calling it now - this is going to be the "Banshees are flying DTs" comment of HotS forum-trolling.
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On December 07 2012 04:18 TheFrankOne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 01:26 awesomoecalypse wrote:
So in what way is Oracle harass not > phoenix harass? PvP where both go stargate builds. That's about it. If that happens then pheonix is far better.
actually in any matchup if the enemy goes air you are better off with phoenix
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On December 07 2012 04:17 awesomoecalypse wrote:
One thing I wonder is how much Oracles will help on defense.
That is, typically the response in WoL to seeing that a Protoss has really committed a lot of gas to Stargate is to either just go kill him (if you're Toss or Terran), or else expand like crazy with a bunch of queens and maybe some spores and know he cant really punish you well enough to stop it (Zerg).
Obviously, Oracles are way too effective at killing workers for the "mass expand with minimal adjustments" strat to work.
But what about the "just go kill him" approach? That is, if an opponent just decides to counter and go all-in with ground units, can Protoss stop them? Often in WoL, the answer was no.
But that was before Protoss got a unit that can 2 shot lings and marines and kill a Zealot in 6 seconds. And here's how they stack up against T1 anti-air (calculations based on dps for hp, and accounting that these units have higher range than the Oracle and will therefore hit first):
An Oracle will only take 12 damage from a marine before it kills it. In fact, an Oracle can take on 4 marines directly and win.
An Oracle kills a Queen straight up, with about 50 hp to spare--although a transfuse will even things out.
An Oralce will take about 70 damage killing a Stalker
So while ideally you want to be out harassing with the Oracle, if the opponent does just decide to go all-in with ground units, the Oracle can pitch in and be quite useful. Not just by timewarping, but by attacking straight up.
Factor in the fact that Voids now deal better damage both overall and while charged, Stargate units might not leave you so vulnerable on defense.
Yeah, I've been coming to similar conclusion. I am super happy, and going to try to play nothing but Stargate games for at least a week or two.
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It can probably be balanced by making the attack cost more energy. It only looked slightly faster than phoenixes killing workers, but oracles are more fragile and cost more.
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On December 06 2012 16:52 Fragile51 wrote:
Oh shit, it's like a banshee without cloak!
...That relies on energy to attack..
I'm sorry, what is the big issue here again?
Lol so true - and of course all units are still subject to balancing.... I'm not worried about how fast units kill workers at this point. Hmmm get's me thinking though. I wonder how fast 3 reapers kill workers? They don't have energy and only require a barracks with a tech lab. They might even be faster than an oracle now...
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On December 07 2012 04:11 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 16:05 neoghaleon55 wrote:
can it attack buildings anymore?
I feel like early sporecrawler is a must
but at the rate of which it kills workers, people might just suicide them in to rape mineral lines....
Not sure I like this either. I belive that it can still attack buildings. In the video the hatchery is damaged by Oracles.
However, it only deals 10 damage to buildings now as opposed to the 25 damage that it originally had with the Pulsar Beam, although the new DPS may be a little more than that due to a slightly faster fire rate.
I guess it can still be used as annoying building harass now, but there are better things to spend the energy on.
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lol, whatever happen to the oracle being meant to do economic damage without actually killing workers
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On December 07 2012 06:37 movac wrote:
lol, whatever happen to the oracle being meant to do economic damage without actually killing workers
It was boring, easy to use ability and imposible to balance at all levels
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EPT
