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NeonFox
2373 Posts
On December 06 2012 16:41 archonOOid wrote: oracle + zealots might work well together now either as a timing attack or as a early/mid army in some matchups. Yeah ling-centric builds seems so bad now in ZvT/P. They get destroyed by units that you can get early enough to make a big impact. | ||
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On December 06 2012 17:17 iKill wrote: oracle stalker oracle kills lings, stalkers kill everything else Ha, this guy. | ||
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
What units is Z going to have at 8:30 (right about the timing you can push out with a stargate / gateway timing)? Lings? Maybe a few roaches, a spine or two, some queens. Head-on, stalkers rape queens + roaches in equal numbers. Lings are not a problem because of the oracle, which can also destroy or force reposition of spines if need be. If roach masses are a problem, you could even throw in a void ray. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
If it ends up countering too many units, then they could change the 10+15 vs light damage to something different like 5+20 vs light or nerf the damage altogether. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 06 2012 17:58 eviltomahawk wrote: Oracles might be surprisingly decent against non-light units as well. I was playing around in the unit tester, and one Oracle beats one Stalker apparently. However, one Oracle does not beat one Archon. I have yet to do more tests, howerver. If it ends up countering too many units, then they could change the 10+15 vs light damage to something different like 5+20 vs light or nerf the damage altogether. Let's face it, lots of things beat stalkers.... | ||
digmouse
China6331 Posts
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On December 06 2012 16:36 TheFrankOne wrote: I watched that video and your opponent did nothing, that video is proof that new units throw people off and that's it. He could of pulled workers and got his queens together, instead he did absolutely nothing. If 3 banshees show up and you don't repond, your workers melt. 5 Mutas show up, your mineral line will melt. This. Your attack starts at about 11:30 min. In a real game (high level) at that time Z will have at least 70 workers, and either, a shitload of roach-ling to deny your 3rd for ever, infestors out, or 10-12 mutas about to pop out and take out your 3 oracles into a lead. With the new oracle build time (50), Z will have enough time to defend as aganist banshees (spores and queens, no problem). The real buff to the Oracle is that it can take some workers as a banshee before escape (WoL Void rays suck hard at that) AND, very important, still be usefull to aid with phoenixes for a potential muta tech. | ||
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BeyondCtrL
Sweden642 Posts
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
No doubt things die too fast, but it'll change. | ||
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link0
United States1071 Posts
On December 06 2012 16:52 Fragile51 wrote: Oh shit, it's like a banshee without cloak! ...That relies on energy to attack.. I'm sorry, what is the big issue here again? Has twice the anti-light dps, and flies much faster. Also, zero overkill, so no wasted shots. | ||
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Kyuki
Sweden1867 Posts
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
On December 06 2012 18:17 digmouse wrote: I don't think it kills workers faster than a normal marine marauder drop, or hellions, or mutas. You might be correct here, BUT it flys, is god damn fast and the standart Zerg Army isnt build to reflect them at this stage (roach/ling) | ||
Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
On December 06 2012 18:11 Plexa wrote: Let's face it, lots of things beat stalkers.... I think i read somewhere that unmicroed stalkers (so, not relevant in gameplay in the first place) actually aren't cost efficient vs workers. | ||
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Twilight Sparkle
Australia235 Posts
On December 06 2012 19:38 ch4ppi wrote: You might be correct here, BUT it flys, is god damn fast and the standart Zerg Army isnt build to reflect them at this stage (roach/ling) Though the zerg queens are, and you want a decent number of them at every stage of the game anyways. | ||
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GorGor
78 Posts
On December 06 2012 16:52 Fragile51 wrote: Oh shit, it's like a banshee without cloak! ...That relies on energy to attack.. I'm sorry, what is the big issue here again? It's 2x as fast, less expensive, and comes out of a tier 2 tech structure instead of tier 3 (with a tech lab requirement) and does roughly 2x the dps with 0 overkill as it is a channeled ability. So I guess it's really not very similar to a banshee... | ||
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Belha
Italy2850 Posts
On December 06 2012 19:56 GorGor wrote: It's 2x as fast, less expensive, and comes out of a tier 2 tech structure instead of tier 3 (with a tech lab requirement) and does roughly 2x the dps with 0 overkill as it is a channeled ability. So I guess it's really not very similar to a banshee... Enough with the bias. Faster but not cloack threat. No overkill but weak non-light dmg. Also dmg need energy. And banshee tier 3 wtf??? Then cybercore is a tier too now uh? /sarcasm | ||
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Fragile51
Netherlands15767 Posts
On December 06 2012 18:39 link0 wrote: Has twice the anti-light dps, and flies much faster. Also, zero overkill, so no wasted shots. It also has 4 range, that's the same as a roach. Do you understand how vulnerable a 4 range flying unit with 100 hp is? Also it's way more expensive than a banshee as well, 200 gas that early in the game is a massive investment and leaves you very vulnerable to counter attacks. | ||
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GorGor
78 Posts
On December 06 2012 18:17 digmouse wrote: I don't think it kills workers faster than a normal marine marauder drop, or hellions, or mutas. I will explain the differences. A marine drop takes like 5 seconds to even unload if they can even reach the mineral line without getting scouted that is (rarely). By the time the marines are out the drones would be already dead from oracles, plus drops can be stopped by lings, roach, etc. Drones can run away and use buildings etc as a shield from marines, and typically drops cannot escape, these things do not apply to the Oracle, not to mention it simply is much faster. As far as hellions it's just ridiculous. Trading 6 hellions for 10-15 drones is seen as a very successful trade and the mineral value of the units is basically even. The oracles however took almost no damage, and he wiped out every drone, and 2 queens despite botching the harass and focus firing the hatchery for like 5 seconds. You're right about mutas though. They can do this if you build like 25 of them, which is 50 supply. | ||
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GorGor
78 Posts
On December 06 2012 20:02 Belha wrote: Enough with the bias. Faster but not cloack threat. No overkill but weak non-light dmg. Also dmg need energy. And banshee tier 3 wtf??? Then cybercore is a tier too now uh? /sarcasm You have to have a factory to build a starport and then add a tech lab. Banshees are considered tier 2.5/3. You can go straight from cyber core (only minerals lololz) to starport, do it is much faster and less gas intense. | ||
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GorGor
78 Posts
On December 06 2012 19:52 Twilight Sparkle wrote: Though the zerg queens are, and you want a decent number of them at every stage of the game anyways. Except the guy in the video did engage the 3 oracles with 4 queens and even after obliterating the entire mineral line (in a total of 5 seconds--starts at 13:27 and already attacking hatch at 13:32) the oracles traded favorable with the queens as 2 queens died and only 1 oracle (then about 1 minute later in the game the 2 oracles kill another queen.) Just admit it. They are imba. This is the beta so it will surely be changed. Edit-Actually there are 5 queens that engage the oracles in the video, one died so fast I didn't realize... | ||
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