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On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Also not to mention, good luck relying on Hive Tech to fight Thors when you'll probably die to a midgame push before that.
BLs were ok when fighting Thors? They rape thor except if you get like 6 thors and shot at clumped BLs.
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On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb.
Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce.
Soo.. Hydraspeed to Lair? I like it, but it wont change anything. You really need a ton of upgrades to make them efficient, you simply cant afford lair + upgrades + range upgrade + speed upgrade at the early midgame. And all those things are desperately needed to make hydras viable.
On the first thought i like the muta buff too, but seriously, given the buffs the other races got its more a nerf than a buff. 0.25 speed to compensate even more phoenix range and ultra strong medivacs? The problem in going muta was always that you need to transition out of them really soon before P/T is too upgrade heavy or has splash damage or a dozen medivacs. Thats the reason (and not the movementspeed) that people just dont go muta anymore. Buffing bio and phoenixes will make mutas even more weak
I also feel like, especially regarding the medivac changes, that zerg really needs an anticaster spell like feedback or emp. but it seems like blizzard doesnt feel that way, they rather keep stupid things like neural parasite
I totally agree, Zerg gonna be a joke to try and play for a while, nothing they have will be able to beat just a plain ol' Bio/Medi/Tank push. I don't see Zerg needing an anti-caster unit, if they just had some unit that was a reliable form of anti-light that'd be enough. Terran gets Siege Tanks, Protoss gets Colossus, Zerg used to have Infestors [yay] and now they only have Banelings which drastically lose utility in the midgame.
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Armory
The Armory now only has one weapon and one armor upgrade for both air and ground upgrades for both Factory and Starport units.
I don't like this.
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On December 06 2012 21:23 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:21 Zane wrote:
Isn't the new Seeker Missile basically Yamato Cannon? I really like the oracle change and mech/air upgrades. Reaper and medivac look interesting, but they could become a problem. Why they changed the medivac healing is beyond me. There have been enough games already where bio refuses to die once the "1 Medivac for each bio unit" ratio has been reached and now they heal even better for less energy? Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:22 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:19 DemigodcelpH wrote:On December 06 2012 09:17 rpgalon wrote:
VOIDRAY
DPS vs light
Before: 10 dps Uncharged / 13.33 dps Charged
Now: 12 dps
DPS vs Armored
Before: 16.67 dps Uncharged / 26.67 dps Charged
Now: 32 dps (~92% damage increase for the standard attack O.o)
OBS: I'm counting that the new ability is activated... That is... a really large buff. Along with how ridiculous the new oracle is after this patch, and the other buffs, I don't know why the Protoss players on BNET are crying so much. I don't know, despite all the amazing Terran buffs I'm still shocked to not see tons of terrans crying. Bad low league players will always be bad and low league for a reason. Easy to answer ... because Terrans know how to PLAY WITH STYLE. They have the Siege Tank, the best designed unit in the game, and yet that unit didnt get buffed one single bit and its "replacement" (the Widow Mine) only satisfies the people who think "powerful = fun".
Medivacs didn't need a buff but I think Blizzard want to push late game drop play much harder than it currently is. Also, the whole "1 medivac per bio" is a bit of an exaggeration and similarly, a bit of wasted supply. The buff will let terrans operate with a much smaller number of medivacs than they currently have to achieve similar levels of effectiveness, or operate with the same number of medivacs with increased effectiveness.
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On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D
well when everything else sucks lategame and you can't rely on t1 units to win...
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On December 06 2012 21:49 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Also not to mention, good luck relying on Hive Tech to fight Thors when you'll probably die to a midgame push before that. BLs were ok when fighting Thors? They rape thor except if you get like 6 thors and shot at clumped BLs.
Nope, you never needed clumped up Broods. As long as your upgrades are decent and you aren't fighting overwhelming odds, Thors hold their own against Brood. The bigger difficulty was getting enough of your Thors in range since only the front line would be able to strike before you get stuck behind Broodlings, but if you have enough anti-broodling shit like Hellion you could press up and Thor/Viking kills Brood decently.
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On December 06 2012 21:49 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Also not to mention, good luck relying on Hive Tech to fight Thors when you'll probably die to a midgame push before that. BLs were ok when fighting Thors? They rape thor except if you get like 6 thors and shot at clumped BLs.
Yeah. Thors were only really good for dealing with a clumped up Corruptor screen but the main problem with that is you're taking constant damage from the BLs and also damage from the broodlings which kind of melted Thors far quicker than it had a right to.
Thors still aren't going to be the go to unit for dealing with large numbers of heavy air units but they will be able to contribute better than they currently do. To put it into perspective - although 24 damage a shot every 2s sounds like a lot, in terms of DPS it's about half the damage of a battlecruiser.
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On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D
Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice.
But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl.
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On December 06 2012 21:52 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:49 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Also not to mention, good luck relying on Hive Tech to fight Thors when you'll probably die to a midgame push before that. BLs were ok when fighting Thors? They rape thor except if you get like 6 thors and shot at clumped BLs. Nope, you never needed clumped up Broods. As long as your upgrades are decent and you aren't fighting overwhelming odds, Thors hold their own against Brood. The bigger difficulty was getting enough of your Thors in range since only the front line would be able to strike before you get stuck behind Broodlings, but if you have enough anti-broodling shit like Hellion you could press up and Thor/Viking kills Brood decently.
Thors can't hold their own against BLs cost effectively at all. I don't know what you are talking about. Zerg will always have infestors and corruptors with their BLs too.
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On December 06 2012 21:49 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb.
Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce.
Soo.. Hydraspeed to Lair? I like it, but it wont change anything. You really need a ton of upgrades to make them efficient, you simply cant afford lair + upgrades + range upgrade + speed upgrade at the early midgame. And all those things are desperately needed to make hydras viable.
On the first thought i like the muta buff too, but seriously, given the buffs the other races got its more a nerf than a buff. 0.25 speed to compensate even more phoenix range and ultra strong medivacs? The problem in going muta was always that you need to transition out of them really soon before P/T is too upgrade heavy or has splash damage or a dozen medivacs. Thats the reason (and not the movementspeed) that people just dont go muta anymore. Buffing bio and phoenixes will make mutas even more weak
I also feel like, especially regarding the medivac changes, that zerg really needs an anticaster spell like feedback or emp. but it seems like blizzard doesnt feel that way, they rather keep stupid things like neural parasite I totally agree, Zerg gonna be a joke to try and play for a while, nothing they have will be able to beat just a plain ol' Bio/Medi/Tank push. I don't see Zerg needing an anti-caster unit, if they just had some unit that was a reliable form of anti-light that'd be enough. Terran gets Siege Tanks, Protoss gets Colossus, Zerg used to have Infestors [yay] and now they only have Banelings which drastically lose utility in the midgame.
Did they remove Infestors? Because i am quite sure that they only nerfed Infestors slightly. 8 range is still very long and honestly, i don't think that you are going to see anyone lower than Master League being able to dodge Fungals. It is going to be about as hard as it is to dodge EMP
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Zerg treated like the mothership :D
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On December 06 2012 21:56 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:49 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb.
Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce.
Soo.. Hydraspeed to Lair? I like it, but it wont change anything. You really need a ton of upgrades to make them efficient, you simply cant afford lair + upgrades + range upgrade + speed upgrade at the early midgame. And all those things are desperately needed to make hydras viable.
On the first thought i like the muta buff too, but seriously, given the buffs the other races got its more a nerf than a buff. 0.25 speed to compensate even more phoenix range and ultra strong medivacs? The problem in going muta was always that you need to transition out of them really soon before P/T is too upgrade heavy or has splash damage or a dozen medivacs. Thats the reason (and not the movementspeed) that people just dont go muta anymore. Buffing bio and phoenixes will make mutas even more weak
I also feel like, especially regarding the medivac changes, that zerg really needs an anticaster spell like feedback or emp. but it seems like blizzard doesnt feel that way, they rather keep stupid things like neural parasite I totally agree, Zerg gonna be a joke to try and play for a while, nothing they have will be able to beat just a plain ol' Bio/Medi/Tank push. I don't see Zerg needing an anti-caster unit, if they just had some unit that was a reliable form of anti-light that'd be enough. Terran gets Siege Tanks, Protoss gets Colossus, Zerg used to have Infestors [yay] and now they only have Banelings which drastically lose utility in the midgame. Did they remove Infestors? Because i am quite sure that they only nerfed Infestors slightly. 8 range is still very long and honestly, i don't think that you are going to see anyone lower than Master League being able to dodge Fungals. It is going to be about as hard as it is to dodge EMP
Oh I see, to make Infestors strong again I should just derank myself so I can play people below masters, it all makes sense now thanks. XD
On December 06 2012 21:55 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:52 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:49 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Also not to mention, good luck relying on Hive Tech to fight Thors when you'll probably die to a midgame push before that. BLs were ok when fighting Thors? They rape thor except if you get like 6 thors and shot at clumped BLs. Nope, you never needed clumped up Broods. As long as your upgrades are decent and you aren't fighting overwhelming odds, Thors hold their own against Brood. The bigger difficulty was getting enough of your Thors in range since only the front line would be able to strike before you get stuck behind Broodlings, but if you have enough anti-broodling shit like Hellion you could press up and Thor/Viking kills Brood decently. Thors can't hold their own against BLs cost effectively at all. I don't know what you are talking about. Zerg will always have infestors and corruptors with their BLs too.
Yes they can, there is a reason why 3-3 maxed out Mech with mostly Thor is borderline unbeatable.
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On December 06 2012 21:23 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:21 Zane wrote:
Isn't the new Seeker Missile basically Yamato Cannon? I really like the oracle change and mech/air upgrades. Reaper and medivac look interesting, but they could become a problem. Why they changed the medivac healing is beyond me. There have been enough games already where bio refuses to die once the "1 Medivac for each bio unit" ratio has been reached and now they heal even better for less energy?
Because without this buff bio wouldn't be viable past 15 minutes. Protoss and Zerg AoE already rape bio, and Ultralisks are getting 35 base damage in their fast AoE. Oh did I mention binding cloud?
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On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip
you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude
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On December 06 2012 21:52 KimJongChill wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D well when everything else sucks lategame and you can't rely on t1 units to win...
The fact that the composition was an i-win button for Zerg for almost 2 years is just ridiculous, now at least we will see other compositions in the game.
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Yes they can, there is a reason why 3-3 maxed out Mech with mostly Thor is borderline unbeatable. [/quote]
That's BS. 3-3 doesn't stand a chance against BL/infestor/Corruptor deathball. There's a reason why that's compsoition need to be dealt with huge amount of vikings and ravens.
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On December 06 2012 21:58 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:56 Prog455 wrote:On December 06 2012 21:49 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb.
Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce.
Soo.. Hydraspeed to Lair? I like it, but it wont change anything. You really need a ton of upgrades to make them efficient, you simply cant afford lair + upgrades + range upgrade + speed upgrade at the early midgame. And all those things are desperately needed to make hydras viable.
On the first thought i like the muta buff too, but seriously, given the buffs the other races got its more a nerf than a buff. 0.25 speed to compensate even more phoenix range and ultra strong medivacs? The problem in going muta was always that you need to transition out of them really soon before P/T is too upgrade heavy or has splash damage or a dozen medivacs. Thats the reason (and not the movementspeed) that people just dont go muta anymore. Buffing bio and phoenixes will make mutas even more weak
I also feel like, especially regarding the medivac changes, that zerg really needs an anticaster spell like feedback or emp. but it seems like blizzard doesnt feel that way, they rather keep stupid things like neural parasite I totally agree, Zerg gonna be a joke to try and play for a while, nothing they have will be able to beat just a plain ol' Bio/Medi/Tank push. I don't see Zerg needing an anti-caster unit, if they just had some unit that was a reliable form of anti-light that'd be enough. Terran gets Siege Tanks, Protoss gets Colossus, Zerg used to have Infestors [yay] and now they only have Banelings which drastically lose utility in the midgame. Did they remove Infestors? Because i am quite sure that they only nerfed Infestors slightly. 8 range is still very long and honestly, i don't think that you are going to see anyone lower than Master League being able to dodge Fungals. It is going to be about as hard as it is to dodge EMP Oh I see, to make Infestors strong again I should just derank myself so I can play people below masters, it all makes sense now thanks. XDShow nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:55 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 21:52 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:49 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Also not to mention, good luck relying on Hive Tech to fight Thors when you'll probably die to a midgame push before that. BLs were ok when fighting Thors? They rape thor except if you get like 6 thors and shot at clumped BLs. Nope, you never needed clumped up Broods. As long as your upgrades are decent and you aren't fighting overwhelming odds, Thors hold their own against Brood. The bigger difficulty was getting enough of your Thors in range since only the front line would be able to strike before you get stuck behind Broodlings, but if you have enough anti-broodling shit like Hellion you could press up and Thor/Viking kills Brood decently. Thors can't hold their own against BLs cost effectively at all. I don't know what you are talking about. Zerg will always have infestors and corruptors with their BLs too. Yes they can, there is a reason why 3-3 maxed out Mech with mostly Thor is borderline unbeatable.
Dude - Infestors were stupidly OP. Even though they have been nerfed it is not like they are useless. And if you manage to hit with one Fungal they can't dodge the next
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On December 06 2012 20:55 MegaFonzie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 20:34 -Archangel- wrote:
WTF?! Wow, way to make Medivacs OP LOL.
And where is the redesign of Infestors?! They only nerf them lol
And why the Ultra nerf?! Ultra charge was the best Zerg change in HotS, and now they return Ultra back to its useless boring WoL version?! I am soo losing the will to spend money on this exp.. How is the ultra change a nerf? Ultras are scary as fuck now, which is how it should be!
You are kidding right?! Ultra is same as WoL ultra only will do more damage. Same pathfinding problems, same slowness outside creep, same problem with lings blocking them.
When Zerg goes Mass Ultra enemies should fear them and move to air to combat them. With Charge they were like that, now they will go back to suck mode again.
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On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl.
They didn't "rely" on infestors. They used infestors because they were the strongest unit in the entire game bar none. The current strategies zerg have only rely on infestors because infestors were far, far too strong.
Now they aren't so strong, they'll find another lynchpin to focus their efforts on since an infestor based army is not going to be cost effective anymore, especially in late game.
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