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On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D
Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game.
So stop it.. Seriously, stop.
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On December 06 2012 22:17 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:
[quote]
Really?
I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change. Yeah but what you're not understanding here is that the Medivac buff is not a buff to Terran late game, it's a buff to Medivacs at any point in the game. No Terran is gonna make Medivacs before they have this upgrade started because there is no reason not to and it's very strong. If Blizzard keeps this upgrade in the game they will need to move it to higher tech than just a Tech lab, put it at Fusion Core or something. Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:16 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:12 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand? What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud. What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you. viper can go anywhere its a flying unit, as u said u want to flank the terran army just get some viper behind too GG You do realize Terran pretty much always has Vikings out by the time Zerg has Hive tech, right?
you do realize terran wont go for vikings when zerg doesnt go for brood corruptors???
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On December 06 2012 22:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:
[quote]
Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change. You cannot just forget drops entirely. you say "bio" but not take them into account. So i can say that infestor ling bane is terrible in a direct engagement because i don't fungal. Not to mention that zerglings don't even exist anymore with firebats (which still got buffed ahah) Why do people keep saying stuff like this? Banelings are really, really, really good against both bio and hellions.
because battle hellions just burn them before they get reached ? and if not they tank the few remaining ones? seriously...
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On December 06 2012 22:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:
[quote]
Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change. You cannot just forget drops entirely. you say "bio" but not take them into account. So i can say that infestor ling bane is terrible in a direct engagement because i don't fungal. Not to mention that zerglings don't even exist anymore with firebats (which still got buffed ahah) Why do people keep saying stuff like this? Banelings are really, really, really good against both bio and hellions.
Sure if your opponent can't micro and doesn't build tanks.
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On December 06 2012 22:18 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:17 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:
[quote]
Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change. Yeah but what you're not understanding here is that the Medivac buff is not a buff to Terran late game, it's a buff to Medivacs at any point in the game. No Terran is gonna make Medivacs before they have this upgrade started because there is no reason not to and it's very strong. If Blizzard keeps this upgrade in the game they will need to move it to higher tech than just a Tech lab, put it at Fusion Core or something. On December 06 2012 22:16 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:12 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand? What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud. What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you. viper can go anywhere its a flying unit, as u said u want to flank the terran army just get some viper behind too GG You do realize Terran pretty much always has Vikings out by the time Zerg has Hive tech, right? you do realize terran wont go for vikings when zerg doesnt go for brood corruptors???
Yes they will, they will make some anyways. Ultras are still a joke and Bio can kill it just fine especially with new Healing buff, no reason to tech switch at all to deal with Ultras so the only risk is Brood or Vipers, make a few Vikings early and ez pz.
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On December 06 2012 22:16 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:12 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand? What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud. What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you. viper can go anywhere its a flying unit, as u said u want to flank the terran army just get some viper behind too GG
Please dont understand that question wrong. But in what league are you playing in? I cant imagine any decent terran to not have a few vikings or ghosts to deal with that.
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Wowowowowo, nice work blizzard, a lot of change is always excellent, we'll see how it turns out but it's better to take amssive changes than reduce later than only very small changes that are just boring 
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On December 06 2012 21:56 Prog455 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:49 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb.
Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce.
Soo.. Hydraspeed to Lair? I like it, but it wont change anything. You really need a ton of upgrades to make them efficient, you simply cant afford lair + upgrades + range upgrade + speed upgrade at the early midgame. And all those things are desperately needed to make hydras viable.
On the first thought i like the muta buff too, but seriously, given the buffs the other races got its more a nerf than a buff. 0.25 speed to compensate even more phoenix range and ultra strong medivacs? The problem in going muta was always that you need to transition out of them really soon before P/T is too upgrade heavy or has splash damage or a dozen medivacs. Thats the reason (and not the movementspeed) that people just dont go muta anymore. Buffing bio and phoenixes will make mutas even more weak
I also feel like, especially regarding the medivac changes, that zerg really needs an anticaster spell like feedback or emp. but it seems like blizzard doesnt feel that way, they rather keep stupid things like neural parasite I totally agree, Zerg gonna be a joke to try and play for a while, nothing they have will be able to beat just a plain ol' Bio/Medi/Tank push. I don't see Zerg needing an anti-caster unit, if they just had some unit that was a reliable form of anti-light that'd be enough. Terran gets Siege Tanks, Protoss gets Colossus, Zerg used to have Infestors [yay] and now they only have Banelings which drastically lose utility in the midgame. Did they remove Infestors? Because i am quite sure that they only nerfed Infestors slightly. 8 range is still very long and honestly, i don't think that you are going to see anyone lower than Master League being able to dodge Fungals. It is going to be about as hard as it is to dodge EMP Neural parasite is nearly useless, so it's as good as non-existant. Infested terrans deal 40% less damage in the late game, and 3 less armor (now take 50–100% more damage vs low damage targets in the late game).
Targets of a fungal growth at max range can now dodge the blast in an ideal scenario(I haven't tested the exact effects) for units like mutalisks, reapers, hellions, phoenix, or medivacs. Aside from that fact, even if the target is moving in a relatively straight line, it takes lots of prediction to be able to hit a target now, and will be unable to hit a fleeing target within a certain range. The range to hit a fleeing mutalisk/medivac travelling in a straight line will now be 4.6 (if I did my math correctly); If it's trying to dodge the FG(not travelling in a straight line), it may not hit altogether. Stalkers are nearly immune to FG now if they have blink. This is not a SMALL change, this is a HUGE nerf.
Blizzard tried changing FG to a projectile before, and went against it (why they're trying it again is unknown to me).
For the record, I'm not against the possibility of it being a projectile, it's just that as a projectile, it should have a longer range (at least 10) and/or should be faster.
On December 06 2012 22:18 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:17 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:
[quote]
Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change. Yeah but what you're not understanding here is that the Medivac buff is not a buff to Terran late game, it's a buff to Medivacs at any point in the game. No Terran is gonna make Medivacs before they have this upgrade started because there is no reason not to and it's very strong. If Blizzard keeps this upgrade in the game they will need to move it to higher tech than just a Tech lab, put it at Fusion Core or something. On December 06 2012 22:16 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:12 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand? What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud. What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you. viper can go anywhere its a flying unit, as u said u want to flank the terran army just get some viper behind too GG You do realize Terran pretty much always has Vikings out by the time Zerg has Hive tech, right? you do realize terran wont go for vikings when zerg doesnt go for brood corruptors??? Yeah it's not like they're good against vipers or overlords or corruptors or anything.
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:18 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:17 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:
[quote]
I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is.
Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space.
I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change. You cannot just forget drops entirely. you say "bio" but not take them into account. So i can say that infestor ling bane is terrible in a direct engagement because i don't fungal. Not to mention that zerglings don't even exist anymore with firebats (which still got buffed ahah) Why do people keep saying stuff like this? Banelings are really, really, really good against both bio and hellions. Sure if your opponent can't micro and doesn't build tanks.
This is people talking about drops behind mineral lines and stuff.
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Good to see people immediately claiming things being over/underpowered not even 12 hours after the changes hit the server. These changes change the game as we know it ENTIRELY. Give it some time to play out before you start screaming for nerfs/buffs z_z
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Combining the ground and air vehicle upgrades I think is going to be the most surprisingly relevant balance decision in this patch, Viking Assault Mode is no longer a joke with 3/3 upgrades and Vikings have a clear end game advantage vs Corrupters now. Even Banshees are suprisingly relevant if they survive past the mid-game, they kill off Roaches at an alarming rate and trade more cost effectively vs Hydralisks.
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Wow, patch actually looks amazing. I'm loving it.
Now that TvZ won't be so fucking retarded and hard for Terran, I may start playing again.
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On December 06 2012 22:18 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:10 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:
[quote]
Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that. Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked. The mathematics of it don't work out like that I'm afraid. The upgrade makes a medivac worth around 1.6 medivacs in pure healing power. The upgrade itself costs 150/150 and requires 110 seconds to work. Given that most reactors on an early game starport go down as the starport is building or are already built, there is no latent addon building time so you can assume an instant swap. Since the upgrade is 110s you can undergo a full 3 building cycles before your medivacs are actually ready, meaning that for most early game timings you are actually better off having the 6 medivacs you will have out from your starport than the 3 upgraded medivacs. No only are they capable of more healing but they also have more hitpoints and can heal more bio at a given time. Not every day a Masters player gets schooled by a Gold leaguer :p
Well, you are right, but I'd guess that it could make sense to get the upgrade first in a lot of scenarios, like for banshee (raven?!?) first openings and just use the techlab first.
But yeah, for example for "classic" bio PvT play, you need the reactor against two base colossus play as well. Though I think that in the end we will just see different BOs (f.e. 2starports instead of one reactored), so I guess it's quite to early for real predcitions.
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On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop.
Uhm. The thor hasn't been given nuclear missiles. It's been given an attack which doesn't get too badly mauled by armour compared to its current attack and fires slightly faster. In most cases the thor is actually better off using its current attack due to splash! However, for sniping overlords, dealing with aerial spell casters, unclumped vikings, void rays, broodlords and those suicidal moments you want to go toe to toe with a battlecruiser (have fun getting yamatoed!), the new mode is much improved.
You will find most terran players will have a few thors set to air battle mode but most will remain in splash mode because of sheer efficiency.
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On December 06 2012 22:18 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:10 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:
[quote]
Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that. Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked. The mathematics of it don't work out like that I'm afraid. The upgrade makes a medivac worth around 1.6 medivacs in pure healing power. The upgrade itself costs 150/150 and requires 110 seconds to work. Given that most reactors on an early game starport go down as the starport is building or are already built, there is no latent addon building time so you can assume an instant swap. Since the upgrade is 110s you can undergo a full 3 building cycles before your medivacs are actually ready, meaning that for most early game timings you are actually better off having the 6 medivacs you will have out from your starport than the 3 upgraded medivacs. No only are they capable of more healing but they also have more hitpoints and can heal more bio at a given time. Not every day a Masters player gets schooled by a Gold leaguer :p
Except you fail to take into account that your example only really works for a very specific timing window. Terrans won't NEED to cripple their enemy in the early-midgame now and hitting that specific timing as strong as humanly possible isn't so required, why not just set yourself up for an even stronger timing a little bit later and just switch your build order around a bit so you can macro harder till your Medivac timing, you could even just work 2 Starports into your build if hitting that 6 Medivac timing is so truly important.
Also, arbitrarily declaring yourself as "owning" me is pretty sad when your argument is so weak.
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On December 06 2012 22:20 doggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:16 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:12 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand? What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud. What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you. viper can go anywhere its a flying unit, as u said u want to flank the terran army just get some viper behind too GG Please dont understand that question wrong. But in what league are you playing in? I cant imagine any decent terran to not have a few vikings or ghosts to deal with that.
mid master wol ,50-19 diamod hots right now
i could talk with ya guys 100 houRs , but i havnt played the new patch yet ,since i was sleepin when the servers were open, and theorycraFfting is usually da shit , gotta play to talk more
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On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop.
They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D
There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-)
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On December 06 2012 22:22 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:18 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:10 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:
[quote]
I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is.
Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space.
I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that. Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked. The mathematics of it don't work out like that I'm afraid. The upgrade makes a medivac worth around 1.6 medivacs in pure healing power. The upgrade itself costs 150/150 and requires 110 seconds to work. Given that most reactors on an early game starport go down as the starport is building or are already built, there is no latent addon building time so you can assume an instant swap. Since the upgrade is 110s you can undergo a full 3 building cycles before your medivacs are actually ready, meaning that for most early game timings you are actually better off having the 6 medivacs you will have out from your starport than the 3 upgraded medivacs. No only are they capable of more healing but they also have more hitpoints and can heal more bio at a given time. Not every day a Masters player gets schooled by a Gold leaguer :p Well, you are right, but I'd guess that it could make sense to get the upgrade first in a lot of scenarios, like for banshee (raven?!?) first openings and just use the techlab first. But yeah, for example for "classic" bio PvT play, you need the reactor against two base colossus play as well. Though I think that in the end we will just see different BOs (f.e. 2starports instead of one reactored), so I guess it's quite to early for real predcitions.
Your main problem at that point is gas. Going such an offensive medivac play is basically admitting you aren't going to get tanks and you are hugely cutting down on your early game medivac count until at least 14-15 minutes in order to get that upgrade.
That also means you're cutting down on your drops.
Now personally I'd be happy to have it on the fusion core just to add another minute or so to it just to put off those problems, but even then it's not going to make a huge difference because you still need to invest in a starport with a tech lab and you're probably only going to do that if you get a 3rd.
If you go early game starport tech lab then you're probably not focusing early game on medivacs so the problem he's complaining about doesn't occur. If you are going early tech starport then yes, it makes sense to maximize the return on your medivacs but it isn't the most efficient way to do it.
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HOLY FUCK PDD BLOCKS FUNGAL? amazing!
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On December 06 2012 22:27 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
HOLY FUCK PDD BLOCKS FUNGAL? amazing!
No it doesn't.. I tested it in editor.
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EPT
