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On December 06 2012 22:24 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:18 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:10 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:
[quote]
I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is.
Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space.
I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that. Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked. The mathematics of it don't work out like that I'm afraid. The upgrade makes a medivac worth around 1.6 medivacs in pure healing power. The upgrade itself costs 150/150 and requires 110 seconds to work. Given that most reactors on an early game starport go down as the starport is building or are already built, there is no latent addon building time so you can assume an instant swap. Since the upgrade is 110s you can undergo a full 3 building cycles before your medivacs are actually ready, meaning that for most early game timings you are actually better off having the 6 medivacs you will have out from your starport than the 3 upgraded medivacs. No only are they capable of more healing but they also have more hitpoints and can heal more bio at a given time. Not every day a Masters player gets schooled by a Gold leaguer :p Except you fail to take into account that your example only really works for a very specific timing window. Terrans won't NEED to cripple their enemy in the early-midgame now and hitting that specific timing as strong as humanly possible isn't so required, why not just set yourself up for an even stronger timing a little bit later and just switch your build order around a bit so you can macro harder till your Medivac timing.
No, it's just flat out better for a good period of time. I'm not focusing on a specific attack window at all. I'm just stating flat out that you don't catch up in healing potential for at least 1-2 minutes after you have finished the upgrade. It is therefore best to not start the upgrade until you have, at minimum, a second starport.
The best way to maximize your healing output remains to go one reactor starport and then to upgrade later. The timing remains the same and you have a much stronger early game army.
The situation you describe simply doesn't exist. This is not an upgrade that fundamentally changes the nature of the unit, it just makes it better at what it already does. That reduces the whole thing to an equation and when you consider that 6 medivacs unupgraded outheal 3 upgraded and 8 medivacs heal on par with 5 upgraded, it is only when you get 10 medivacs and 7 medivacs that the upgrade even takes effect. That's a full 225 seconds AFTER you've put down the upgrade and you are STILL healing less targets than the original form.
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On December 06 2012 22:25 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop. They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-)
Nobody's jimmies are being rustled, you just make yourself look like a tool, congrats.
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I played a bunch of games on HOTS last night (I got dropped from a lot of them though). A bunch of ZvTs too. The match up felt fine to me. It's actually funny, because one T I played declared terran broken because he couldn't kill me with the buffed reapers followed by a single medivac and a single widow mine.
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On December 06 2012 22:25 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop. They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-)
No, they just nerfed Ultras and Infestors instead of fixing them like promised and gave us mid game Hydra speed like that is going to fix anything lol. In addition the super stupid Lurker wannabe Swarm Host is still in the game.
Only good thing left for Zerg in a ZERG expansion is Viper. Tnx for nothing Blizzard.
What about corruptors and overseers?!
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holy cow.... that´s alot of changes... let´s see how that plays out... gonna test later today
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Seem like a very good patch, i'm happy
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On December 06 2012 22:28 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:24 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:18 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:10 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:
[quote]
I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it.
Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything.
In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods.
Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that. Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked. The mathematics of it don't work out like that I'm afraid. The upgrade makes a medivac worth around 1.6 medivacs in pure healing power. The upgrade itself costs 150/150 and requires 110 seconds to work. Given that most reactors on an early game starport go down as the starport is building or are already built, there is no latent addon building time so you can assume an instant swap. Since the upgrade is 110s you can undergo a full 3 building cycles before your medivacs are actually ready, meaning that for most early game timings you are actually better off having the 6 medivacs you will have out from your starport than the 3 upgraded medivacs. No only are they capable of more healing but they also have more hitpoints and can heal more bio at a given time. Not every day a Masters player gets schooled by a Gold leaguer :p Except you fail to take into account that your example only really works for a very specific timing window. Terrans won't NEED to cripple their enemy in the early-midgame now and hitting that specific timing as strong as humanly possible isn't so required, why not just set yourself up for an even stronger timing a little bit later and just switch your build order around a bit so you can macro harder till your Medivac timing. No, it's just flat out better for a good period of time. I'm not focusing on a specific attack window at all. I'm just stating flat out that you don't catch up in healing potential for at least 1-2 minutes after you have finished the upgrade. It is therefore best to not start the upgrade until you have, at minimum, a second starport. The best way to maximize your healing output remains to go one reactor starport and then to upgrade later. The timing remains the same and you have a much stronger early game army.
And yet I still disagree that it is necessarily better to have 6 normal Medivacs over 3 upgraded Medivacs. In terms of sheer numbers yes, 6 Medivacs can potentially heal a larger number of HP but this isn't the only factor you have to consider. One example being if you use larger, fewer units like Marauders or Hellions to tank hits in chokes while medivacs keep them alive indefinitely so you don't necessarily need 6 different units being healed at the exact same time, in which you having that many medivacs is not as efficient as fewer, stronger medivacs.
Also this little 6 Medi to 3 Medi comparision scenario is about the only small timing window in which it's *maybe* worthwhile to delay the upgrade, any build which doesn't hinge so much on this timing window is gonna want the upgrade.
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On December 06 2012 22:28 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:25 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop. They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-) Nobody's jimmies are being rustled, you just make yourself look like a tool, congrats.
Sorry, I don't get your comment.. Do you actually have something to say?
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On December 06 2012 22:23 Evangelist wrote:
You will find most terran players will have a few thors set to air battle mode but most will remain in splash mode because of sheer efficiency.
Assuming the new cannon has the same attack cooldown of 3 seconds, certainly, otherwise I'd say probably not. I guess since they didn't mention the cooldown, it is still 3 seconds?
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On December 06 2012 22:33 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:28 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:25 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:
[quote]
It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop. They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-) Nobody's jimmies are being rustled, you just make yourself look like a tool, congrats. Sorry, I don't get your comment.. Do you actually have something to say?
I don't know, do you? You haven't made any intelligent comments and are just trolling (very poorly I might add) instead of actually contribute in the slightest.
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On December 06 2012 22:32 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:28 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:24 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:18 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:10 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:
[quote]
Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D
Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that. Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked. The mathematics of it don't work out like that I'm afraid. The upgrade makes a medivac worth around 1.6 medivacs in pure healing power. The upgrade itself costs 150/150 and requires 110 seconds to work. Given that most reactors on an early game starport go down as the starport is building or are already built, there is no latent addon building time so you can assume an instant swap. Since the upgrade is 110s you can undergo a full 3 building cycles before your medivacs are actually ready, meaning that for most early game timings you are actually better off having the 6 medivacs you will have out from your starport than the 3 upgraded medivacs. No only are they capable of more healing but they also have more hitpoints and can heal more bio at a given time. Not every day a Masters player gets schooled by a Gold leaguer :p Except you fail to take into account that your example only really works for a very specific timing window. Terrans won't NEED to cripple their enemy in the early-midgame now and hitting that specific timing as strong as humanly possible isn't so required, why not just set yourself up for an even stronger timing a little bit later and just switch your build order around a bit so you can macro harder till your Medivac timing. No, it's just flat out better for a good period of time. I'm not focusing on a specific attack window at all. I'm just stating flat out that you don't catch up in healing potential for at least 1-2 minutes after you have finished the upgrade. It is therefore best to not start the upgrade until you have, at minimum, a second starport. The best way to maximize your healing output remains to go one reactor starport and then to upgrade later. The timing remains the same and you have a much stronger early game army. And yet I still disagree that it is necessarily better to have 6 normal Medivacs over 3 upgraded Medivacs. In terms of sheer numbers yes, 6 Medivacs can potentially heal a larger number of HP but this isn't the only factor you have to consider. One example being if you use larger, fewer units like Marauders or Hellions to tank hits in chokes while medivacs keep them alive indefinitely so you don't necessarily need 6 different units being healed at the exact same time, in which you having that many medivacs is not as efficient as fewer, stronger medivacs.
Focus fire will almost always overcome any amount of healing and in other situations the AI behaviour will result in a large number of targets being attacked. This is a silly argument - it is mathematically better to have 6 unupgraded vs 3 upgraded and remains better until you hit 10 and 7. You're relying on incredibly specific behaviour where someone is literally microing in the worst possible way they can vs 3 medivacs to make your point. The situation you describe simply does not exist.
There is something to be said for an early starport tech lab going for medivac tech, provided you have already committed to a tech lab for other reasons as it'll help you catch up on your medivac count. However for early game power you should be going reactor starport in almost every circumstance.
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On December 06 2012 22:33 Xapti wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:23 Evangelist wrote:
You will find most terran players will have a few thors set to air battle mode but most will remain in splash mode because of sheer efficiency.
Assuming the new cannon has the same attack cooldown of 3 seconds, certainly, otherwise I'd say probably not. I guess since they didn't mention the cooldown, it is still 3 seconds?
From what I've heard it's 2s. So it's got a higher single target DPS.
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i dont see how a terran can lose a tvz in this iteration haha, everything the terran got looks so fun and strong
maybe it plays out totally different but from just reading the notes it looks insane
cant wait to login and test things out
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On December 06 2012 22:35 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:33 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:28 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:25 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:
[quote]
Really?
I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop. They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-) Nobody's jimmies are being rustled, you just make yourself look like a tool, congrats. Sorry, I don't get your comment.. Do you actually have something to say? I don't know, do you? You haven't made any intelligent comments and are just trolling (very poorly I might add) instead of actually contribute in the slightest.
Well, don't you think it's a bit early to cry about infestor nerfs when not a single game of beta with those changes was played? Just try to answer this if you want intelligent perspective. Other than that, stupid whine deserves nothing more than stupid answers.. At least I tried to explain to you, that infestor nerf is not the end of the world for Zerg, but apparently, Zerg point of view is full of infestors, so I guess I understeand now..
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This patch looks so good. Almost everything is a giant improvement. Horrible timing for me though. I just got done working the mid shift and have to be back in in like 10 hours. Looks like I'm just not going to sleep for a couple of days.
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On December 06 2012 22:40 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:35 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:33 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:28 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:25 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:
[quote]
Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop. They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-) Nobody's jimmies are being rustled, you just make yourself look like a tool, congrats. Sorry, I don't get your comment.. Do you actually have something to say? I don't know, do you? You haven't made any intelligent comments and are just trolling (very poorly I might add) instead of actually contribute in the slightest. Well, don't you think it's a bit early to cry about infestor nerfs when not a single game of beta with those changes was played? Just try to answer this if you want intelligent perspective. Other than that, stupid whine deserves nothing more than stupid answers.. At least I tried to explain to you, that infestor nerf is not the end of the world for Zerg, but apparently, Zerg point of view is full of infestors, so I guess I understeand now..
well, can still use mutas.... nope, widow mines, speed medivacs, lolrange phoenixes..
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On December 06 2012 22:41 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:40 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:35 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:33 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:28 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:25 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 22:18 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:
[quote]
I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is.
Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space.
I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Your post is just stupid. You really want to see another few years of one dimensional play? There are now close to no counters to a Thor except for the viper. Let's see how long it'll take terrans to prepare a little bit for that with either free fully upgraded vikings or some Ghosts. This isn't about anyone crying. Further, I don't think any Zerg in here liked playing infestor broodlord. It's just plain boring and incredibly bad for the game. So stop it.. Seriously, stop. They just dismantled 2-year 1-dimensional boring bl/infestor turtlefest and you cry like little baby.. Haha, not even worth a comment, not a single game in a new patch and we already know we got new 1-dimensional terran playstyle, lol.. Like, what? :D There are so counters to Thor - Lings, Roaches, Vipers, NP, Magic box muta, jesus christ this is funny.. :-) Nobody's jimmies are being rustled, you just make yourself look like a tool, congrats. Sorry, I don't get your comment.. Do you actually have something to say? I don't know, do you? You haven't made any intelligent comments and are just trolling (very poorly I might add) instead of actually contribute in the slightest. Well, don't you think it's a bit early to cry about infestor nerfs when not a single game of beta with those changes was played? Just try to answer this if you want intelligent perspective. Other than that, stupid whine deserves nothing more than stupid answers.. At least I tried to explain to you, that infestor nerf is not the end of the world for Zerg, but apparently, Zerg point of view is full of infestors, so I guess I understeand now.. well, can still use mutas.... nope, widow mines, speed medivacs, lolrange phoenixes..
Ok, Ill aply your logic so you see how silly it is.
well, widow mines? Nope, overseer, viper, lolspeedhydra...
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So its nearly 0600 Blizzard-Time? I hope they start working soon.
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Hmmm not ones really mentioned the fact that the HSM now only does Target unit damage and has no splash damage. Whilst 300 damage is obvioiusly a huge amount, i cant see how single unit damage will help it be useful in countering late game corruptor/bl/inf
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EPT
