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On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude
I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper
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On December 06 2012 22:00 InoyouS2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:52 KimJongChill wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D well when everything else sucks lategame and you can't rely on t1 units to win... The fact that the composition was an i-win button for Zerg for almost 2 years is just ridiculous, now at least we will see other compositions in the game.
You won't see many "new compositions" against Terran for a while at least unless they go Mech which, quite frankly, is the only way I can see a Terran losing atm. Best thing Z has against Bio is still gonna be Ling/Bling/Infestor, any Roach or Hydra tech is a suicide wish and Widow Mines will still scare the shit out of any Zerg wanting to go Mutas. Zerg will also die before Hive tech.
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On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl.
Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in..
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Server still doesn't work ? -.-
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On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in..
Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose.
And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!"
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On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper
im talking about that
"I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb.
Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce.
"
when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force
so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand?
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On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm.
Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that.
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On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!"
I got my arm cut when ghost was nerfed to oblivion.. Apparently, no new hand appeared the same day on my body.
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Seriously not only mutalisks still can never harras terran, now they don't even shut down drops. This is just cutting options blindly.
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On December 06 2012 21:49 BeeNu wrote:
I totally agree, Zerg gonna be a joke to try and play for a while, nothing they have will be able to beat just a plain ol' Bio/Medi/Tank push.
Nothing? Binding Cloud hard counters all of Terran. Zerg will not be a joke. Zerg was significantly stronger than P and T combined, and will hopefully now be brought in line with the new changes.
On December 06 2012 21:58 BeeNu wrote:
Yes they can, there is a reason why 3-3 maxed out Mech with mostly Thor is borderline unbeatable.
This is the fastest way to discredit yourself considering mech is the worst composition in the game. As someone who started playing random I can tell you when your opponent is Terran and you're not Terran yourself it already feels like a free win, and when he mechs you can AFK and still win.
Hopefully after these changes mech will actually be playable.
On December 06 2012 22:07 Karpfen wrote:
Seriously not only mutalisks still can never harras terran, now they don't even shut down drops. This is just cutting options blindly.
If Mutas are in patrol outside of a base then drops are entirely shutdown. Additionally the new ridiculous 4 speed mutas can easily catch dropships even with the speed boost because it's temporary and doesn't match the normal speed of a mutalisk.
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On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:
[quote]
It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that.
Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked.
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United Kingdom12032 Posts
A good thing about the thor change is you can finally kill overlords with thors without taking like 10 attacks :/
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On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:On December 06 2012 19:27 Everlong wrote:
Oh wow editor works so you can test all units and see how they works.. It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!"
Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out.
Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change.
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On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand?
What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud.
What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you.
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On December 06 2012 22:07 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:49 BeeNu wrote:
I totally agree, Zerg gonna be a joke to try and play for a while, nothing they have will be able to beat just a plain ol' Bio/Medi/Tank push. Nothing? Binding Cloud hard counters all of Terran. Zerg will not be a joke. Zerg was significantly stronger than P and T combined, and will hopefully now be brought in line with the new changes. Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 21:58 BeeNu wrote:
Yes they can, there is a reason why 3-3 maxed out Mech with mostly Thor is borderline unbeatable. This is the fastest way to discredit yourself considering mech is the worst composition in the game. As someone who started playing random I can tell you when your opponent is Terran and you're not Terran yourself it already feels like a free win, and when he mechs you can AFK and still win. Hopefully after these changes mech will actually be playable.
Lol? What league are you where you think a Terran maxed out on 3-3 mech is weak? And I'm the one discredited? Jesus christ. The only thing Terran has which is better than maxed 3-3 Mech is maxed 3-3 Air. The reason these are hard is cuz all of your shit is gonna die before you get maxed and 3-3 if the Zerg knows what he's doing.
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On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:
[quote]
It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change.
You cannot just forget drops entirely. you say "bio" but not take them into account. So i can say that infestor ling bane is terrible in a direct engagement because i don't fungal.
Not to mention that zerglings don't even exist anymore with firebats (which still got buffed ahah)
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On December 06 2012 22:12 doggy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand? What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud. What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you.
viper can go anywhere its a flying unit, as u said u want to flank the terran army just get some viper behind too GG
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On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 19:31 Existor wrote:
[quote]
It's not works for me, gives error Really? I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change.
Yeah but what you're not understanding here is that the Medivac buff is not a buff to Terran late game, it's a buff to Medivacs at any point in the game. No Terran is gonna make Medivacs before they have this upgrade started because there is no reason not to and it's very strong. If Blizzard keeps this upgrade in the game they will need to move it to higher tech than just a Tech lab, put it at Fusion Core or something.
On December 06 2012 22:16 Killmouse wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:12 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 22:05 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 22:02 doggy wrote:On December 06 2012 21:59 Killmouse wrote:On December 06 2012 21:44 doggy wrote:
-snip you do realize that zerg has a new spellcaster called viper? blinding cloud is pretty good dude I dont get what youre quoting. I didnt say that zerg needs more spellcasters, i said that zerg needs a anticaster spell like emp/feedback on either the infestor or the viper im talking about that "I can just speak for Zergs.. and seriously, thats too much. Im okay with changing the way fungal works, but reduce the range to 8 and make it a projectile despite ultras having no burrow charge anymore? Oh, i forgot the crazy new healing rate on bio. Seriously, its dumb. Mmm is way too effective properly microed against lategameunits such as the ultras. It always was okay because of fungal and/or burrow charge. But to overnerf the infestors AND remove burrowcharge is just dumb. Buffing the ultradmg to 35 may seems good for some people. But dmg was never their problems, its being unable to connect properly with the bioforce. " when u cast blinding cloud marines marauders have melee range, they will automaticly move towards your ultras if you dont move out of the cloud, and ultras will kill the whole bio force so u cant efficient kite the ultras , understand? What youre saying is not true for most of battles. Imagine a usual battlefield on any map where MMM is not cornered. Zerg tries to get good angles and flanks to crush the terran. What does the terran do? He doesnt run in direction to the zerg (which is where the blinding cloud could land), he runs back, away from the ultras, away from the blinding cloud. What youre saying might be true if a zerg is defending and the terran attacks, and regards that you cant kite ultras efficient. You cant go with your vipers BEHIND the terran army and spam blinding cloud there, that he cant kite you. viper can go anywhere its a flying unit, as u said u want to flank the terran army just get some viper behind too GG
You do realize Terran pretty much always has Vikings out by the time Zerg has Hive tech, right?
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United Kingdom12032 Posts
On December 06 2012 22:13 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:11 Evangelist wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:
[quote]
Really?
I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm instead of "Well that right hook of yours was really something...so much for that!" Bio is still every bit as weak against zerg splash as it always has been. It'll still get mauled by infestor/ling/bling and still get overrun by huge numbers of cracklings mixed in with ultras and a few infestors. You still need tanks to take either composition out. Yes, late game medivacs will make it a little easier for terran to cope with the huge swarms of cracklings and fungals and everything else that rains down on a late game terran army but it's not that big a change. You cannot just forget drops entirely. you say "bio" but not take them into account. So i can say that infestor ling bane is terrible in a direct engagement because i don't fungal. Not to mention that zerglings don't even exist anymore with firebats (which still got buffed ahah)
Why do people keep saying stuff like this? Banelings are really, really, really good against both bio and hellions.
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On December 06 2012 22:10 BeeNu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 22:06 Wildmoon wrote:On December 06 2012 22:04 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 22:03 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:55 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:47 Everlong wrote:On December 06 2012 21:45 BeeNu wrote:On December 06 2012 21:39 Qikz wrote:On December 06 2012 21:33 Grendel wrote:On December 06 2012 19:35 Everlong wrote:
[quote]
Really?
I just tested 5 Thors vs 5 Broodlords and Thors won with 3 left, 1 half healt lol.. :D Great. Except for the Viper, there is now not a single zerg unit that can beat Thors. And no, ultralisks don't beat them cost effectively, and lings get raped already by hellbats.. I think you've overestimating how weak zerg is. Binding cloud shuts down thors, neural can really own thors completely and broodlords will still do well against thors unless you get a bunch of them firing at the same time which will be hard in a tight space. I think you highly overestimate how strong Zerg is, they have [had] the Infestor, that's about it. Blinding cloud is great but against units like Thors and Vikings enjoy losing at least a couple Vipers every single time you want to use Cloud. HP buff may help a bit but I doubt it will mean anything. In the past Broodlords were only "just ok" when fighting Thors, now I see no reason why Thors should ever lose to Broods. Neural is still a total joke, it's an ability you only use if you want to free up supply by sacrificing an Infestor. Ahahaaa, Zerg crying no more Broodlord/Infestor/Corruptor defwin... LOVE IT!! :D Well that's nice input, but sadly I play Random and not Zerg. I have 0 complaints about nerfing Infestors and making BL/Inf a lot weaker, but any scrub on the ladder knows that if you do something like that you have to compensate Zerg properly somehow or they're fucked, Blizzard made Zerg overly rely on Infestor, now that Infestor is nerfed what does Zerg get? Oh slightly faster Muta and Hydra, well that's nice. But that's ok you sound like a gold league who blamed his loss on balance, rofl. Infestor is nerfed, so you HAVE TO immidiately buff everything else without even trying things out, right? I'm pretty sure Zerg will do more then fine late-game vs Terran (silly statement, right?).. You have several new tools to deal with mech army before Broodlords now, so don't act like they just nerfed infestor and thats it - Zerg is doomed.. Actually I got destroyed in beta playing mech against basic Roach/Hydra army with just a few Vipers mixed in.. Mech is how Terran can still lose, it's Bio vs Zerg that will not lose. And yes, if Infestors are heavily nerfed then Zerg needs buffs in other places. If I cut your right arm off you would probably want some compensation of strength in your left arm. Are you sure Zerg bio will not lose vs zerg? I don't think are that good at this game to call that. Yeah, I'm very positive actually. I only got to play about 3 real games before server shut down but I got to play with Terran a little. Every Terran will just go ahead and get the Medivac upgrade before switching the Starport to a Reactor, the buff to healing is insane. If Infestors had 0 nerfs it *might* be balanced out since you can nearly heal straight through Fungal, forget about the range and being able to dodge them. Add in all the other massive Terran buffs and the fact Zerg got basically nothing that will help in ZvT, yeah I think it's pretty safe to say Zerg is fucked.
The mathematics of it don't work out like that I'm afraid. The upgrade makes a medivac worth around 1.6 medivacs in pure healing power. The upgrade itself costs 150/150 and requires 110 seconds to work. Given that most reactors on an early game starport go down as the starport is building or are already built, there is no latent addon building time so you can assume an instant swap.
Since the upgrade is 110s you can undergo a full 3 building cycles before your medivacs are actually ready, meaning that for most early game timings you are actually better off having the 6 medivacs you will have out from your starport than the 3 upgraded medivacs. No only are they capable of more healing but they also have more hitpoints and can heal more bio at a given time.
Not every day a Masters player gets schooled by a Gold leaguer :p
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