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One Community, One Dialogue: A United Scene

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
November 20 2012 22:03 GMT
#1
Halo was the backbone of the MLG circuit for five years, now it’s a sideshow. What happened?

With the advent of Halo: Reach, the series faltered, and with it, it’s power as an esport. What makes a sport successful -- the money to be had, the spectacles of packed arenas, or perhaps the diversity of teams or strategies within the game itself? All are important, but the heartbeat of a sport is its community.

In the case of Halo, we see a steady progression of esport-friendly design: from Halo CE’s ton of low accuracy, high fire rate weapons to Halo 2’s introduction the Battle Rifle, Carbine, and two Sniper rifles. This showcased player skill over player luck. Halo 3 introduced equipment that provided various forms of area control as well as a high power precision weapon called the Spartan Laser. Just a few years ago, Halo was THE Esports scene in the Americas.

While Reach continued the general trend of making the game more Esport focused (Power Weapons like the Spartan Laser or Brute Shot were balanced or remade, more precision weapons were introduced like the DMR, Needle Rifle, Grenade Launcher, Mobility abilities like Sprint and Evade to make map gameplay more dynamic). Why did a game that tried so hard to be an Esport fail?

Reach split the community.

Certain changes divided the community: traditional Halo fans saw things like weapon bloom and armor abilities to be fundamental departures from the core Halo experience, and turned their backs on Reach in favor of Halo 3. Many insisted that Reach was fine as it was. In the end it didn’t really matter who was right, the scene was split, and more organized Esports like SC2 stole the spotlight. This effect has not damaged just halo Halo: CS, Team Fortress, and Quake have all had their pro communities diminished or marginalized because of fans splitting themselves between games.

Starcraft has tried to rend itself apart -- esports scenes will always struggle with this. Like empires, digital games are doomed to fall in time due to changes in tech and consumer taste. Old sports like Baseball are rooted in history and have generations of people wishing to play the same game their fathers (or mothers) played. These titanic games span centuries, defining entire cultures. Because digital games emerged from the private sector, they follow the same fundamental patterns of the economic culture that they were birthed into. This means that popular digital games like Counterstrike and Quake must be released multiple times to keep competitive in an ever growing market. Like the phoenix, successful esports can achieve immortality by perpetually dying and being reborn in sequel games that have been updated to modern standards and tastes. But has Reach proves, this is a double-edged sword.

There was concern in the aftermath of Wings of Liberty’s big reveal in Korea: Multiple Building Selection, Auto Surround, and Unlimited Unit Selection, and fluid pathing AI all lit up TL.net for years. Was SC2 too noob friendly? Did the game look too cartoony? Was there too much randomness in the game? etc.... While many of these topics were laid to rest, this debate showed two forming factions: BW loyalists and WoL loyalists, their dialog burned into our memory by the infamous TL articles “The Elephant in the Room” and “The Rhino In the Room.” Elephant ultimately asserted that SC2 as a scene couldn’t be taken as seriously due to the fundamental design of the game, while Rhino argued that the design of the game makes the competitive scene less stable and we should be ok with that.

This divide only grew deeper and more bitter, reaching its climax when competitive BW was discontinued. Some left, some stayed, but there was really only one winner: The MOBA. With Kespa fighting Blizzard over broadcasting rights, and an increasingly scattered fanbase, Riot’s League of Legends had an easy time staking a dominant claim in Korea.

Why Has League of Legends done so well?

It has a united community. Even if someone thinks Darius is overpowered or Rengar has been overnerfed, they still log on to play the game, and even if there is a decided imbalance in the game with a champion, there are ways of not having to deal with it (via bans) until the issue is fixed. Only when Riot really screws up with broken champions like release Xin or Vlad do you see any fracturing of the bulk of community outcry. However, because Riot is aggressive in their balance and design, and very active with the community, those fractures don’t affect the core of the community for long. If there is an issue with a champion, it will get adjusted within two weeks to two months, or failing that, get completely remade. Blizzard takes three to six months to do balance tweaks. This is HUGE in establishing a sense of united community, because the community has a working dialogue with the people who make their champions. This isn’t some holiday special like the HotS beta either, this dialogue occurs every week, and game balance gets tweaked every month. Riot’s free to play multiplayer platform where skins generate revenue, allowing players to feel special and even proud by investing in the game. It’s free-to-play nature makes it easy to have accounts to play with your low-skill friends AND you can have a third account do secret practicing stuff on the ladder. Finally, in comparison to Dota 2 and Starcraft, League is much easier to get into and stay into because of a low skill floor due to easy to master mechanics. And, on the mechanical and art side, there are many champions to learn and each kit requires you to read situations slightly differently, creating a sense of variety and progression. These all bring and hold the LoL community together.

What Blizzard can do.

Here’s a controversial statement of the article: Dustin Browder is a pretty damn good designer. His focus in SC2 was to make the races more distinct while focusing on player experience in the game itself. Just look at the language he uses in interviews going way way back, he always comes to the question “how does this make the player feel?” We have creep speed bonus, add on swaps, and pylon power mechanics because of those efforts. Things that enhance the feel of each race. And while many things can be improved in those fields, those ideas (and many many others) are spot on.

The big issue is Starcraft 2 hasn’t supported the community BETWEEN games, due to the lack of a level-up mechanic, statistic support, Clans etc. After the community called out and pillars of the community gnashed their teeth, Blizzard decided that something like meta-progression is important, and implemented the EXP system alongside previous plans like clan support, better statistics, and worldwide play. The issue isn’t that Blizzard doesn’t listen, because they do, and they are pretty damn tenacious about fixing perceived problems with their game. The issue is that they are too slow and cautious with their improvements. I can respect that they don’t wish to upset the tourney scene, people’s livelihoods are on the line. But the fact of the matter is when there are issues with their game, and it takes a long time to fix or improve it, it makes the gameplay and community feel stagnant and neglected.

Therefore, Blizzard needs to show its commitment to improving the game (and openness to change fundamental aspects in design) in a way that protects the professional scene. I.E. They should have an integrated Public Test Realm.

Make it a Feature!

Starcraft 2’s Test Realm didn’t work because it was detached from their main client, and frankly, you could be laddering instead. Making them a special map is an improvement, but it lacks the sense of united purpose that a Test Realm does. What if, along side the various playlists, you had a PTR matchmaking system that changed every two weeks, and had achievements and portraits to earn all within the client. This way, Blizzard could gather data on a variety of maps as well as enabling the community to play a more active role in the development process.

This slows down and weeds out harmful changes, but depends on a consistent player base to test it (which has been the problem traditionally). Finally, for us neophiles in the community, it means there is always new (potential) content to test out every two weeks.

What the Community can do.

First, we need to show consistent interest in exploring changes to unit and race design. We need to show Blizzard we want to see changes discussed and tested, not just during one of the two remaining betas, but week after week, and seeing the results of our efforts foster a better Starcraft. This means, making custom maps and testing things out and sending that data to blizzard, saying “hey, we think this will make for an even better Starcraft experience, you should try this out!” Blizzard has looked at things as fundamental as unit pathing, they can sure as heck test out tier 1.5 hydras, or a difference in Warp Gate implementation.

Second, we must learn from the past, not implement it. Brood War was fantastic; it was a big part of my adolescence, and it showed us that Esports could dominate a CULTURE. It holds a place in history and rightly so, many, many good things came from BW: design, readability, gameplay. The question is, why imitate Brood War when we can do better? If the fanbase can collaborate with Blizzard, Starcraft 2 could easily meet, or even surpass Brood War in design and gameplay. To do so, we need to be open to each other, respectful, organized, and most importantly, we must set aside our sacred cows, our assumptions that Brood War was some unreachable miracle of design our comfort with WoL’s second fiddle in the Esports scene. No, we must push every day to make this game better as a community, with common understandings of what makes good design, what can be good design, and what is to be avoided.

What we have been doing

I have been working with different people in the community to build a custom map to test out significant changes to the game state in an attempt to better express the different identities of each race. (See my articles.) The early game dynamics have been reworked to allow a stronger protoss early game and where Zerg can be more aggressive. Terran have a much more supply efficient mech army and a stronger tier three. OneVoice is an attempt to test out ideas from the community and relay the data we collect to blizzard to aid them in their decisions. I have setup a gmail account so that you folks, my fellow starcrafters, can submit ideas (and explain why you think they would be a good idea for Starcraft.) The mod will be up and live on arcade very soon, and everyone is welcome to give their 2 cents! Look forward to playing with you soon!

Just submit your suggestions to onevoicemod@gmail.com

http://i.imgur.com/Bv8Ez.png

Some ground rules:

1. Be polite to us, the community, and Blizzard, we are all in this together!
2. No Classic units. (Spin offs, and re imaginings are fine and dandy, Blizzard will not remake classic units verbatim this time around.)
3. Focus on racial theme and fun gameplay (for both players)
Reflection and Respect.
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
November 20 2012 22:15 GMT
#2
We're calling ourselves OneVoice, and boy do we care about starcraft 2. Keep this logo in mind, we hope to produce some great stuff under it:

[image loading]
sewergoat
Profile Joined May 2011
United States97 Posts
November 20 2012 22:23 GMT
#3
this is by far the most well written piece of work i have ever seen on teamliquid, and spot on with the point about mobas being the winner in the battle between WOL and BW. In honor of the truth of this, I have made a humble offering in the form of a piece of original ms paint artwork:

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Silence is better than bullshit
FoxyMayhem
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
624 Posts
November 20 2012 22:30 GMT
#4
Ha ha ha ha. Ultimately, I hope not!
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
November 20 2012 22:33 GMT
#5
Thanks, we care deeply about this sort of thing.
Reflection and Respect.
Inf-badguy
Profile Joined July 2003
Canada171 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 22:37:49
November 20 2012 22:37 GMT
#6
Good read. Having a test client constructed into the normal game client would be pretty useful. Blizzard's attempted to do this in the past with their test maps for minor balance changes as opposed to PTR releases for larger patches. I really like the idea of seeing proposed changes being offered and playable on a weekly or bi-weekly basis.

Best of luck with your endeavor.
[]Phase[]
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium927 Posts
November 20 2012 22:42 GMT
#7
ow man I really like the idea of a ptr-like feature inside the client itself, and not as a seperate client
sylphaed
Profile Joined November 2012
Canada4 Posts
November 20 2012 23:00 GMT
#8
This article is amazing. You should go to events and deliver it as a speech, you'll get a standing ovation every time.

And what you said about the PTR being in a completely separate client is spot on. If it were easier to take part in testing changes I'd dust off my copy of SC2 and stop being a spectator to take an active approach in helping the game grow right now.
nmetasch
Profile Joined April 2012
United States600 Posts
November 20 2012 23:03 GMT
#9
This was a great writeup, I couldn't agree more. When I started reading this I expected you to lash out at the community for being so negative towards blizzard, but it was more a call to arms suggesting that if we do our part, blizzard will do their best to do theirs.

Mad respect to the author, I hope blizzard sees this project and your writeup, it must take a toll on guys like Browder to see so much negative feedback... Honestly, HOTS, while far from perfect in my opinion, is taking huge steps in the right direction and making the game far more interesting, and i'm especially excited about the stats/clan/group stuff being implemented .
PineapplePizza
Profile Joined June 2010
United States749 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:22:10
November 20 2012 23:06 GMT
#10
edit- I'm a moron and can't read. Ignore this.
"There should be no tying a sharp, hard object to your cock like it has a mechanical arm and hitting it with the object or using your cockring to crack the egg. No cyborg penises allowed. 100% flesh only." - semioldguy
FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
November 20 2012 23:08 GMT
#11
Good luck with your project, always nice to see people trying to improve something on the game. The best community is a dedicated community. (which will make sure the game stays alive for a long time, see BW mapmaking and Ladder projects)

Had a good laugh at the Moba thing though after hearing a 3 hour long Dota2 vs LoL discussion.
RFDaemoniac
Profile Joined September 2011
United States544 Posts
November 20 2012 23:31 GMT
#12
This is awesome and inspiring. You put this logo out as if it were something that we should use. How would you recommend using it?
Fencar
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States2694 Posts
November 20 2012 23:40 GMT
#13
Yes!! I'm so tired of reading all the negative stuff without any solutions. I hope you plan to (or have) post this on the Battle.net forums.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Freeborn
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany421 Posts
November 20 2012 23:40 GMT
#14
Very good post. Good thinking and articulated well.

I really think the idea to make ptr a part of the regular client, with dedicated achievements is pure gold.
If you now add in the option to give direct feedback for each ptr change from the client then we migth get a truly integrated community.

Since I also am of the opinion that more possible options should be tried and tested I also made a testmap to try out some change (mostly FF and Mothership removed and fungal change related).
I actually published it in Hots, thread can be founf here : http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/5848167657#5

sadly I never really got to try it

Will be looking forward to testing your mod. If I can do anything to help please let me know.
Anything that will help blizzard be less timid with their changes for HotS can only help the game.
FancYCaT
Profile Joined October 2012
45 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-20 23:50:12
November 20 2012 23:42 GMT
#15
I think Blizzard is often doing the right things in terms of design. The races feel really different and thats a great achievment. They show an ever so resistent attitude towards ideas like drastic Warpgate changes and that is good, because even if it might positively affect balance, it would probably crush a lot of the games' "spirit".

A problem with Blizzard in general though is that they try to make their games causual friendly. I'm absolutely not saying that is a bad thing, but they are trying to do it the wrong way. I think when games like SC, WC3, D2 and Vanilla WoW were designed Blizzard had a different approach just to make a game fun. Even though there were many hard or abusable mechanics the games were still fun and easy gameplay does not always mean games are better for casuals.
I think D3 and WoW expansions might be prime examples here: WoW becomes easier and easier while classes don't feel as different anymore as they did in the start. There is no room for crazy things anymore as was in vanilla.
I think D3 was really hurt by the fact that they introduced the level restriction (or rather didn't make it as hard to reach as in D2, cause they thought it wouldn't appeal a big audiance if it's hard to get there.

The point i want to make is that blizzard should keep in mind that the journey often is the reward and simplicity of games is not the way to make the game more enjoyable. What they need is a solid base of easy to get basics that leave a lot of open space for players to improve and develop while playing a game.

I hope they will realize this soon enough and the community should definitively try to help there.
I really think you are right on the money with your article and I hope it finds a lot of support, because when a game gets changed by the designer heading into the wrong direction it is our duty to lead them back on the right track.

On note for the PTR thingy: Dota 1 has always had a "stable map" and a "latest map" provided by Ice Frog. That system worked out great. Tourneys would always use the stable map, teams would usually train with that map aswell while the latest map was used for public games and some tournaments with lower prize pool.
TiTanIum_
Profile Joined August 2011
Brazil1335 Posts
November 20 2012 23:50 GMT
#16
This is truly an amazing piece of work. Really nice to read, very concise and logical.
BlueKatz
Profile Joined March 2012
68 Posts
November 20 2012 23:55 GMT
#17
Great post, I think many people already aware of this but have no skill to write like this. Hope more and more people aware of the real problem

I played many many games from BW to AoE, from Halo to Quake, CS in a fairly competitively causal style and I often see the downfall more than I would like. People should not think SC2 is any more special than those top games
Quotes are useless
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-11-21 00:03:41
November 20 2012 23:59 GMT
#18
Great work but I disagree with your fundamental assumption.

The root cause is not the split community. The split community is the result. The root cause is that the newest game in the series is too different (good or bad) from its predecessor, which lead to controversies and the split community.

Innovation is not always good in many areas. In esports or sports in general, innovation is mostly bad. The reason that baseball or other traditional sports span for centuries, as you said so, is that their rules and designs rarely change or do not change at all. It is exactly the lack of change and innovation of rules and designs in traditional sports that produced their long lifespan.

The reason that we have split community in the older esport games such as Starcraft or Halo or CS as you said is exactly innovation and change. The older esport games suffered this problem more than the newer ones. LoL has a unified community, as you said, because it's the first game in the series. Even as new as LoL, it already has faced comparisons with Dota. There can be changes and innovations of spectating such as better graphics and audio, which are almost necessary in esports. However, changes and innovations of rules and designs of the game will inevitably lead to controversies to various degrees, regardless of whether the intention of those changes and innovations are good or not.

It is strangely unfortunate but it is what is. The problem of split community between different games in a series will always be there in esport.
ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
November 21 2012 00:05 GMT
#19
I actually agree with you that the split is the result of design changes. The point is that it is weakening the scene as is, and that we and Blizzard can change it. Simply going back to Brood War will change little in terms of helping the scene outside of Korea, and even then, there are other problems with how the game is distributed (subscription is inferior to free to play for the purposes of the PC Bang). The idea is that we find a set of design principles to test, and submit that data to Blizzard saying "we want something like this in the game."
Reflection and Respect.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10675 Posts
November 21 2012 00:33 GMT
#20
I agree with everything you are saying absolutely, and I think this was a beautifully made post, the only thing I disagree on you with is that you are saying if Blizzard and the community worked together it is possible to make SC2 have better gameplay than BW. The thing that makes BW gameplay so special is that it is an anomaly, it was not created to be the way it is, things like mutalisk stacking / micro was not intended, it was a glitch. I think people need to back away from the " SC2 is not BW, SC2 is a different game" mentality, SC2 came from BW, SC2 would of not existed if SC1 did not exist.

Therefor I believe that SC2 should hold A LOT more of the similarities BW had than it does now, SC2 should not be a completely different game, as StarCraft 2 is still StarCraft, it just really confuses me why so many people want a game that is completely different than BW, when Starcraft 2 is supposed to be based off of BW....

Nice post and thank you for your insight and community project, I just have strong beliefs that if SC2 was a lot more like BW, then there would have been no separation, or at least a lot less, of BW and SC2 mindsets, and it probably would of helped a lot more in the long run for everyone.

I hope this project works out very well for you, God bless.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
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