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On November 10 2012 08:48 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 07:32 Aquila- wrote:
Without more changes TvP mech wont be viable. Mvp killed over 60 porbes in his game against Rain and he still got crushed by immortals and tempests. If he wanted to win he would play bio. I hope they come up with a solution because currently there is no reason to play mech TvP unless you want to lose. It isn't good that he spread out his army that got killed because of the recall, even though he had 60 Probes killed, he didn't do any damage to the Rain's army, and MVP's army was wiped out, and we know how hard is to re-max with Mech. Rain just pushed after that to victory. No saying that Mech is good, or even viable, but this game really didn't show much about mech play in terms of being viable or not.
Yeah, I liked how he split up the super expensive army to two fronts, lost both parts, killed almost no units, and then tried again. No mines either. You gotta have mines.
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On November 10 2012 09:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 08:48 Ramiz1989 wrote:On November 10 2012 07:32 Aquila- wrote:
Without more changes TvP mech wont be viable. Mvp killed over 60 porbes in his game against Rain and he still got crushed by immortals and tempests. If he wanted to win he would play bio. I hope they come up with a solution because currently there is no reason to play mech TvP unless you want to lose. It isn't good that he spread out his army that got killed because of the recall, even though he had 60 Probes killed, he didn't do any damage to the Rain's army, and MVP's army was wiped out, and we know how hard is to re-max with Mech. Rain just pushed after that to victory. No saying that Mech is good, or even viable, but this game really didn't show much about mech play in terms of being viable or not. Yeah, I liked how he split up the super expensive army to two fronts, lost both parts, killed almost no units, and then tried again. No mines either. You gotta have mines.
What you gotta have is ghosts.
Mines in 200/200 situations are a waste of supply.
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Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new.
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On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote:
Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new.
oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game:
they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it.
Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly.
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On November 10 2012 13:24 Markwerf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote:
Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new. oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game: they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it. Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly.
I've seen Time Warp cast on workers...
And no one figured out the game yet nor is anyone good at it yet. Be patient.
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On November 10 2012 13:41 Bareleon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 13:24 Markwerf wrote:On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote:
Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new. oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game: they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it. Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly. I've seen Time Warp cast on workers... And no one figured out the game yet nor is anyone good at it yet. Be patient.
Time warp on workers is actually a waste of energy. It decreases mining by around 10%.
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Gah, storm still wrecks the terran army.
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On November 10 2012 14:35 KingofGods wrote:
Gah, storm still wrecks the terran army.
Yeah TvP hasn't changed, terran still can't beat the protoss deathball, some things will never change.
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horrible vods so much lag wtf, why free is always siht
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On November 10 2012 19:11 Xzopo wrote:
horrible vods so much lag wtf, why free is always siht
It is not because it is free, whole GOMTV has been lagging for last few weeks, don't know why, it is just terrible. I want to watch GSL videos, and have to wait for 10-20 minutes for everything to buffer...
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Has anyone seen today's Matches? You can write here the results?
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On November 10 2012 14:11 dragonblade369 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 13:41 Bareleon wrote:On November 10 2012 13:24 Markwerf wrote:On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote:
Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new. oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game: they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it. Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly. I've seen Time Warp cast on workers... And no one figured out the game yet nor is anyone good at it yet. Be patient. Time warp on workers is actually a waste of energy. It decreases mining by around 10%.
it's ok-ish, early game 10% mining is pretty huge but sniping tech lab is a much better choice of cause
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United Kingdom12062 Posts
On November 10 2012 14:39 WeRRa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 14:35 KingofGods wrote:
Gah, storm still wrecks the terran army. Yeah TvP hasn't changed, terran still can't beat the protoss deathball, some things will never change.
Mech can destroy any protoss deathball with very good emps and a good engagement with little issues.
The issues come with dealing with the protoss who is massively mobile and doesn't engage into areas where emps are strong.
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On November 10 2012 22:22 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2012 19:11 Xzopo wrote:
horrible vods so much lag wtf, why free is always siht It is not because it is free, whole GOMTV has been lagging for last few weeks, don't know why, it is just terrible. I want to watch GSL videos, and have to wait for 10-20 minutes for everything to buffer...
As I recall, they apologized on their forums for the slowness, but the most recent bout of it was caused because they have some of their servers in New York, which was clobbered by a freak hurricane a week and a half ago, so...
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I want a close-up of Kerrigan! D:
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Is anyone else's stream stuttering a lot?
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Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming.
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and what is left is just meh.
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play. The design of our units are boring. They do not feel powerful. They do not feel interesting or AWESOME to use.
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker.
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing, and the swarm host is definitely not what the race needs to be revitalized and promote different styles.
Anyhow, <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Jaedong!
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lmao did anyone see that guy jizz when they showed his sign on screen?
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On November 11 2012 15:09 Qwyn wrote:
Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming...
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and it's just meh...and it says something, b/c even those are meh...
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play...
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker...
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing...
Anyhow, <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Jaedong!
Roflmao ... I just saw Leenock DESTROY a Protoss with masses of Swarm Hosts. Three Colossi and a bunch of Stalkers didnt kill those little free units fast enough to not take any damage and this is totally ridiculous. There was NOTHING the Protoss could do against it especially after Leenock used some Vipers to pull the Colossi into the middle of the free units.
Zerg only loses free units + Protoss loses units and has to reproduce = BAD game and totally not "Zerg have to rebuild their army constantly" and thus they get to stockpile even more larvae.
Swarm Host is the new overpowered Zerg unit after the Infestor ...
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On November 11 2012 15:24 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2012 15:09 Qwyn wrote:
Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming...
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and it's just meh...and it says something, b/c even those are meh...
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play...
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker...
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing...
Anyhow, <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Jaedong! Roflmao ... I just saw Leenock DESTROY a Protoss with masses of Swarm Hosts. Three Colossi and a bunch of Stalkers didnt kill those little free units fast enough to not take any damage and this is totally ridiculous. There was NOTHING the Protoss could do against it especially after Leenock used some Vipers to pull the Colossi into the middle of the free units. Zerg only loses free units + Protoss loses units and has to reproduce = BAD game and totally not "Zerg have to rebuild their army constantly" and thus they get to stockpile even more larvae. Swarm Host is the new overpowered Zerg unit after the Infestor ...
It doesn't mean that it is entertaining...and what you are talking about is definitely not "midgame." How is that good unit design to have another unit that spawns free units, in addition to the two units that already do this (it's no coincidence that Z players pair them together...) in the Zerg arsenal? In addition the units the thing spawns move slowly, attack slowly and are very easily out DPS'd, are not very aggressive by design, have to be massed to be used effectively...
They are spawned in such a long timing window and aren't microable...They don't even promote player skill. They're just one of those set it and forget it units...They really are. Yes people will talk about how you can maybe do some cool timings with burrowing/unburrowing the hosts and moving backwards, but that in and of itself is fucking boring! And tell me, does Zerg really need another unit which is literally designed to turtle? That's all this race can do...look at the lategame of all 3 MUs.
How is a set it and forget it, EARLIER broodlord any fun at all? Why doesn't Zerg get a MIDGAME power unit that they can use straight up, instead of having to mass 10+ of them and sit behind a wall of spine crawlers, or have a significant macro advantage, or hit a timing to use effectively?
I have never once seen them be effective in a ZvT where the terran is actually trying. Stats do nothing. They are SECONDARY to design. This game is all just "stats stats stats." That's all people ever talk about is balance through numbers. But that doesn't mean that the host is entertaining in the slightest! It's a stupid ripoff of two units Zerg already has!
Every other race has a unit which is straight out STRONG. Specifically in my mind is the siege tank. It is a power unit. You don't go wrong with them. Why are the devs so adverse to giving zerg a power unit that they can use in the midgame and instead give them piece of shit units that are only held together with either...
a. Amazing mechanics.
b. The infestor.
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EPT
