Finally, some pro HotS matches! Can't wait to see them, and hopefully we won't see some stupid cheeses with too much screwing around. I hope for some great and a bit serious matches! Can't wait!
Haha this will be cool. Kind of funny and cute with HotS being so BETA at the moment. Are widow mines still OP? Either way awesome lineup and can't wait!
On November 06 2012 21:52 Qikz wrote: Holy shit can't wait to see Flash with HoTS mech.
It will be interesting to see how Flash and Mvp will work with mech now that you have a decent melee tanker with the battle hellions. I don't see mines really working due to supply. Will probably be used for early pushes and anti harass.
On November 06 2012 23:29 pmp10 wrote: Too bad it's only show-matches given the line-up.
What are you expecting? A real competition for a beta build that is only out for 4 days?
Yes. We had HotS tournaments before. Besides - the beta could badly use some top-level players to chart balance and meta-game.
Those hots tournaments usually ended up being won by zergs who just went broodlord infestor without giving the new units as much of a thought though :p
On November 06 2012 23:29 pmp10 wrote: Too bad it's only show-matches given the line-up.
What are you expecting? A real competition for a beta build that is only out for 4 days?
Yes. We had HotS tournaments before. Besides - the beta could badly use some top-level players to chart balance and meta-game.
Those hots tournaments usually ended up being won by zergs who just went broodlord infestor without giving the new units as much of a thought though :p
You mean by Terran with those awesome unit called Warhound? :D
Afaik, illusion won first HotS beta tournament hosted by HDstarcraft and Painuser(I think that was the first one).
It's funny all these people like Incontrol or Idra who say that Widow mine is totally OP when they didn't play the beta. They are far from OP, because even if they attack air/invisible units and one shot some units, they only do 40 splash damage with a 40 sec CD. Basically you can run 40 roachs or 40 zealots on 4 Widow mines and they will only kill max 6 units, but in a real game units are never stackes like that and killing a 2 supply roach with a 2 supply mine isn't worth is when the zerg will always have more supply!
Anyway I'm really excited to watch them play and I hope it'll be stream. I guess it's at the same time than WCS so I'll have to watch both simultaneously.
Ha yeah and expect zerg doing the same shit and winning in ZvT (infestors/BL) because terran still have nothing to deal with this army composition. But in PvZ tempest totally destroy BL for the same cost and supply (with a shorter building time and only stargate tech) so I think PvZ should be quiet different, even if Swarm host are a bad designed unit imo but Vipers are interesting.
I hope someone somewhere finds for this I should add. Though since its Hots and kespa/esf im sure it will be streamed in korea in the hopes of garnering attention for the game.
On November 06 2012 23:29 pmp10 wrote: Too bad it's only show-matches given the line-up.
I'd much rather see showmatches than a real tournament at this stage of HotS. If there was money on the line they would stick primarily to the units they know. They are far more likely to show expiremental builds with the new units in a showmatch.
On November 06 2012 23:29 pmp10 wrote: Too bad it's only show-matches given the line-up.
I'd much rather see showmatches than a real tournament at this stage of HotS. If there was money on the line they would stick primarily to the units they know. They are far more likely to show expiremental builds with the new units in a showmatch.
I would even say, that these showmatches will look very similar as the battle reports from Blizz... With higher APM ^^
I wish that they had Bisu show us how dangerous Oracles can be with his level of multitasking.
All these groups look sick. IMO, the odd one out feels like Last since he isn't as big of a name as the other players, but he is still a pretty good player with a 4th place finish in OSL.
On November 06 2012 21:52 Qikz wrote: Holy shit can't wait to see Flash with HoTS mech.
My thoughts exactly, it is time for the rebirth of the Flash build in SC2. ... I just want to see FlaSh and JangBi play... gl ! hopefully this is streamed.
EDIT : ALSO FBH!!!!!!!! Hopefully FBH wins vs gisado and he does a ceremony :D
On November 06 2012 21:48 iKill wrote: I'm just happy to see ESF and KeSPA cooperating about SOMETHING without anyone having to boycott anyone...
I think this is the most important thing about this for me... ESF and KeSPA without any drama or boycotts just doing something together to help show off and promote starcraft!
Well that and it will be fucking amazing to see some high level show matches of HotS of course
On November 06 2012 21:48 iKill wrote: I'm just happy to see ESF and KeSPA cooperating about SOMETHING without anyone having to boycott anyone...
I think this is the most important thing about this for me... ESF and KeSPA without any drama or boycotts just doing something together to help show off and promote starcraft!
Well that and it will be fucking amazing to see some high level show matches of HotS of course
Wow holy shit... ur right just noticed who it was that were partners here! really surprised to not see a dicky move by kespa
I better hope for them they don't do some PvT HotS..
Terran going bio because mech units still suck in HotS TvP.. Protoss going standard stuff no stargate because air is still useless against bio terran => result same as WoL TvP with maybe 1 or 2 widow mines early on for defense and some mothership core action.
Well most of them have problem almost not played hots at all so it will probably not show hots in a very good light. But I guess it can be fun for some for nostalgia sake.
I'm genuinely curious how this will play out. So far I've only seen ladder games of HotS but it'll be interesting to see some top progamers play out against each other with a genuine desire to win.
I wonder what the race distribution will be and if any really abusive strategies will be pulled out. Also, curious about the overall quality/entertainment value of the games - is PvZ going to be a snoozefest or more action-packed?
PS. Also, would be epic if Jaedong and Flash could play each other and actually make sick games out of it.
Should be fun, I doubt any of those players have played a lot of HotS or will be playing that seriously though, so it probably won't say much of anything about the state of the game currently
On November 07 2012 14:25 MasterCynical wrote: This better not turn into a WOL invitational called HOTS.
Cant wait to see any new plays/strats they might come up with.
Well it's showmatches so i think the players are just going to goof around with the new units instead of just going for the same shit they've been doing for the last couple months :p
On November 07 2012 14:25 MasterCynical wrote: This better not turn into a WOL invitational called HOTS.
Cant wait to see any new plays/strats they might come up with.
Well it's showmatches so i think the players are just going to goof around with the new units instead of just going for the same shit they've been doing for the last couple months :p
And every single fucking Korean says: I will try to show good games for the fans. This is their chance!
On November 07 2012 01:57 DreamOen wrote: really good news, on the one hand, cause ESF+KEspa will cooperate, and in the other cause its awesome too see taht many bonjwas in the same place.
I count one actual (former) bonjwa: Flash. Great to see my man Jaedong playing, i sincerely hope this will be streamed!
We are happy to announce that GOMTV will be broadcasting the Starcraft 2 matches from the 2012 G-Star Invitational located in Busan.
However, these are not just any Starcraft 2 matches, they are "Heart of the Swarm" show matches! Progamers will battle head to head with each other to demonstrate the strength of their respective races and even a battle between casters will commence!
We hope you enjoy this special broadcast with the "Heart of the Swarm"!
*This broadcast will be in Korean
Schedule:
Race Match: 3 progamers from each race (Zerg, Terran, Protoss) will battle it out to show their dominance. Avatar Match: Casters' will give commands to the progamers which they have to follow throughout the match. Interview Match: Caster's will ask questions to the progamers during the match which they must answer correctly or else...
On November 08 2012 14:35 ArcLiTe wrote: LOLOL MVP looked like a scrub trying mech TvP
He should have used Medivacs to heal the Hellbats. And I loved how Rain used Timewarp to delay the army from arriving. I think it was a great idea as well to cast Reveal on the marines, so he knew where he could harass.
Just watched Day 1 VODs. Game 1 between MvP and Rain is really really nice. I hope something like this might become the metagame. the other 2 Games were really bad though =/
On November 09 2012 23:44 gCgCrypto wrote: Just watched Day 1 VODs. Game 1 between MvP and Rain is really really nice. I hope something like this might become the metagame. the other 2 Games were really bad though =/
Probably because of the NesTea... :D
But now, seriously, it seems that he doesn't know how to use the new units. And Rain was pretty good with his Oracles. ^^
On November 09 2012 23:44 gCgCrypto wrote: Just watched Day 1 VODs. Game 1 between MvP and Rain is really really nice. I hope something like this might become the metagame. the other 2 Games were really bad though =/
Probably because of the NesTea... :D
But now, seriously, it seems that he doesn't know how to use the new units. And Rain was pretty good with his Oracles. ^^
I agree, just didnt want to say it like this to not possibly spoil enything I also feel that Rains use of Oracles in both the PvT and PvZ was amazing, constantly slowing Units to buy Time or slow the economy. Was very fun to watch ^^^ Nestea seemed to not really know what to do.
CANT WAIT FOR JAEDONG though =) so hyped! gogogo 2:0!
After watching Rain use the mothership core and oracle it seems like bio TvP is dead in HoTS. With purify and recall Protoss is literally always in position and can defend anything. Also time warp plus storms = good bye bio ball. And mech is immobile and shitty as ever. RIP terran.
On November 10 2012 06:57 Buchan wrote: After watching Rain use the mothership core and oracle it seems like bio TvP is dead in HoTS. With purify and recall Protoss is literally always in position and can defend anything. Also time warp plus storms = good bye bio ball. And mech is immobile and shitty as ever. RIP terran.
awesome dude...your complaining about balance when they are still at the begining stages of beta.
I thought the games (only watched Day 1 so far) were great. New units being viable, interesting plays across the map, less blobby. I was really quite surprised.
On November 10 2012 06:57 Buchan wrote: After watching Rain use the mothership core and oracle it seems like bio TvP is dead in HoTS. With purify and recall Protoss is literally always in position and can defend anything. Also time warp plus storms = good bye bio ball. And mech is immobile and shitty as ever. RIP terran.
awesome dude...your complaining about balance when they are still at the begining stages of beta.
Just because it's early doesn't mean I can't complain. Terran is getting 1 new unit in HoTS while Zerg and Protoss are getting several game changing abilities and units.
On November 10 2012 07:19 n00b1n8R wrote: I thought the games (only watched Day 1 so far) were great. New units being viable, interesting plays across the map, less blobby. I was really quite surprised.
One of the main issues with SC2 that caused the death ball is that we can control an entire army on one screen. That was less possible on BW, just because the game was on a different scale. By making units that don't work well at short ranges or need to be set up before hand, it remove the benifit of balling them up.
I am more excited about HotS the more I see pros do cool stuff with it.
On November 10 2012 06:57 Buchan wrote: After watching Rain use the mothership core and oracle it seems like bio TvP is dead in HoTS. With purify and recall Protoss is literally always in position and can defend anything. Also time warp plus storms = good bye bio ball. And mech is immobile and shitty as ever. RIP terran.
awesome dude...your complaining about balance when they are still at the begining stages of beta.
Just because it's early doesn't mean I can't complain. Terran is getting 1 new unit in HoTS while Zerg and Protoss are getting several game changing abilities and units.
Then at least don't complain because players didn't know what they were doing. Nestea had no idea how burrow charge works, Rain didn't know that time-warp is ground-only and MVP tried to mech without ghosts. I'm sure there will be a lot of time for bashing Blizzard once we start having serious HotS competitions with sizable prize-pools.
On November 10 2012 06:57 Buchan wrote: After watching Rain use the mothership core and oracle it seems like bio TvP is dead in HoTS. With purify and recall Protoss is literally always in position and can defend anything. Also time warp plus storms = good bye bio ball. And mech is immobile and shitty as ever. RIP terran.
awesome dude...your complaining about balance when they are still at the begining stages of beta.
Just because it's early doesn't mean I can't complain. Terran is getting 1 new unit in HoTS while Zerg and Protoss are getting several game changing abilities and units.
They arn't done yet. Blizzard has said they are looking at the raven and other, under used terran units. Still, the mine is bad ass and battle hellions are pretty neat.
Without more changes TvP mech wont be viable. Mvp killed over 60 porbes in his game against Rain and he still got crushed by immortals and tempests. If he wanted to win he would play bio. I hope they come up with a solution because currently there is no reason to play mech TvP unless you want to lose.
On November 10 2012 07:32 Aquila- wrote: Without more changes TvP mech wont be viable. Mvp killed over 60 porbes in his game against Rain and he still got crushed by immortals and tempests. If he wanted to win he would play bio. I hope they come up with a solution because currently there is no reason to play mech TvP unless you want to lose.
It isn't good that he spread out his army that got killed because of the recall, even though he had 60 Probes killed, he didn't do any damage to the Rain's army, and MVP's army was wiped out, and we know how hard is to re-max with Mech. Rain just pushed after that to victory. No saying that Mech is good, or even viable, but this game really didn't show much about mech play in terms of being viable or not.
On November 10 2012 06:57 Buchan wrote: After watching Rain use the mothership core and oracle it seems like bio TvP is dead in HoTS. With purify and recall Protoss is literally always in position and can defend anything. Also time warp plus storms = good bye bio ball. And mech is immobile and shitty as ever. RIP terran.
awesome dude...your complaining about balance when they are still at the begining stages of beta.
Just because it's early doesn't mean I can't complain. Terran is getting 1 new unit in HoTS while Zerg and Protoss are getting several game changing abilities and units.
really you have no clue what you are talking about..
Oracle is about as useless as it get's in TvP. Time warp is one of the most useless spells in the games, units move out of extremely quick... The timewarp + storm combo is pretty much nonexistant because the timewarp hardly matters at all.. These games they played are just a joke and you see they are just trying some stuff and not playing all too serious, at it stands right now mech is still useless in TvP and because of that stargate play is also pretty much useless. Oracle is super expensive, super fragile and practically does nothing against a few marines on defense plus terran bio gets units to counter it ANYWAY... they want vikings for your colossi eventually and ghosts no matter what you do.
Changes that actually impact HotS TvP so far: - widow mine makes it easier to defend a few all-ins it's unreliable against protoss at the moment because they have very easy detection now and can even use hallucinate to 'detect and disable' mines. - mothership core, make it easier for protoss to take a third and defend against various timing pushes. This is the biggest chance really and slightly tilts the matchup towards P in the beta imo. - free hallucinate, this along with the mothership core make it perfectly safe to skip robo completely early on making it very easy to get a 3rd base on just gateways alone which make it really easy to defend.. Easy transition into ht etc from there if T plays bio, otherwise just add some immortals and you stomp mech too.
TvP is atrocious in HotS right now because it's still the same awful matchup as in WoL
On November 10 2012 07:32 Aquila- wrote: Without more changes TvP mech wont be viable. Mvp killed over 60 porbes in his game against Rain and he still got crushed by immortals and tempests. If he wanted to win he would play bio. I hope they come up with a solution because currently there is no reason to play mech TvP unless you want to lose.
It isn't good that he spread out his army that got killed because of the recall, even though he had 60 Probes killed, he didn't do any damage to the Rain's army, and MVP's army was wiped out, and we know how hard is to re-max with Mech. Rain just pushed after that to victory. No saying that Mech is good, or even viable, but this game really didn't show much about mech play in terms of being viable or not.
Yeah, I liked how he split up the super expensive army to two fronts, lost both parts, killed almost no units, and then tried again. No mines either. You gotta have mines.
On November 10 2012 07:32 Aquila- wrote: Without more changes TvP mech wont be viable. Mvp killed over 60 porbes in his game against Rain and he still got crushed by immortals and tempests. If he wanted to win he would play bio. I hope they come up with a solution because currently there is no reason to play mech TvP unless you want to lose.
It isn't good that he spread out his army that got killed because of the recall, even though he had 60 Probes killed, he didn't do any damage to the Rain's army, and MVP's army was wiped out, and we know how hard is to re-max with Mech. Rain just pushed after that to victory. No saying that Mech is good, or even viable, but this game really didn't show much about mech play in terms of being viable or not.
Yeah, I liked how he split up the super expensive army to two fronts, lost both parts, killed almost no units, and then tried again. No mines either. You gotta have mines.
What you gotta have is ghosts. Mines in 200/200 situations are a waste of supply.
Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new.
On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote: Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new.
oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game: they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it.
Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly.
On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote: Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new.
oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game: they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it.
Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly.
I've seen Time Warp cast on workers...
And no one figured out the game yet nor is anyone good at it yet. Be patient.
On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote: Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new.
oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game: they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it.
Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly.
I've seen Time Warp cast on workers...
And no one figured out the game yet nor is anyone good at it yet. Be patient.
Time warp on workers is actually a waste of energy. It decreases mining by around 10%.
On November 10 2012 19:11 Xzopo wrote: horrible vods so much lag wtf, why free is always siht
It is not because it is free, whole GOMTV has been lagging for last few weeks, don't know why, it is just terrible. I want to watch GSL videos, and have to wait for 10-20 minutes for everything to buffer...
On November 10 2012 12:11 Infernal Knight wrote: Keeping in mind that what we had was an unfinished product, I was actually quite impressed by the visual of the games that were played. I still do think that mech is going to need something else if it's going to be made to work, but I don't want to whinge about balance. Rather, I'm going to mention what I found most striking: it was actually the ZvP.
While Nestea really didn't look like he knew what he wanted to do with the new units (I thought his Swarm Host burrowing was way, way too aggressively forward, for example) looking at Rain's army in both that game and in his game against MvP made me like what I saw. Oracles seemed helpful and worthwhile to build, and when handled by a pro looked quite good indeed. As someone else mentioned, the Protoss army felt much less blobby when it wasn't a bunch of ground units huddling under Colossus, and overall it still felt like most things had a place, both old and new.
oracles are such a joke against terran, just not worth making them. The oracles did practically nothing for rain in this game: they killed 2 addons, casted some useless time warps and did some revelations. It's quite a massive expense at 600/600 though just to get 3 oracles and a stargate like that, with terran being able to outrepair oracles easily they are just not worth it.
Time warp needs some sort of buff to be of any real use, at the moment the spell is a joke. Like actually letting it delay mining speed or letting it delay build/research times would make it much more useful. Time warp harass is a waste of energy now and for combat the spell has really marginal uses because units move out of the time warp way too quickly.
I've seen Time Warp cast on workers...
And no one figured out the game yet nor is anyone good at it yet. Be patient.
Time warp on workers is actually a waste of energy. It decreases mining by around 10%.
it's ok-ish, early game 10% mining is pretty huge but sniping tech lab is a much better choice of cause
On November 10 2012 19:11 Xzopo wrote: horrible vods so much lag wtf, why free is always siht
It is not because it is free, whole GOMTV has been lagging for last few weeks, don't know why, it is just terrible. I want to watch GSL videos, and have to wait for 10-20 minutes for everything to buffer...
As I recall, they apologized on their forums for the slowness, but the most recent bout of it was caused because they have some of their servers in New York, which was clobbered by a freak hurricane a week and a half ago, so...
Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming.
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and what is left is just meh.
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play. The design of our units are boring. They do not feel powerful. They do not feel interesting or AWESOME to use.
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker.
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing, and the swarm host is definitely not what the race needs to be revitalized and promote different styles.
On November 11 2012 15:09 Qwyn wrote: Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming...
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and it's just meh...and it says something, b/c even those are meh...
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play...
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker...
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing...
Anyhow, <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Jaedong!
Roflmao ... I just saw Leenock DESTROY a Protoss with masses of Swarm Hosts. Three Colossi and a bunch of Stalkers didnt kill those little free units fast enough to not take any damage and this is totally ridiculous. There was NOTHING the Protoss could do against it especially after Leenock used some Vipers to pull the Colossi into the middle of the free units.
Zerg only loses free units + Protoss loses units and has to reproduce = BAD game and totally not "Zerg have to rebuild their army constantly" and thus they get to stockpile even more larvae.
Swarm Host is the new overpowered Zerg unit after the Infestor ...
On November 11 2012 15:09 Qwyn wrote: Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming...
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and it's just meh...and it says something, b/c even those are meh...
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play...
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker...
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing...
Anyhow, <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Jaedong!
Roflmao ... I just saw Leenock DESTROY a Protoss with masses of Swarm Hosts. Three Colossi and a bunch of Stalkers didnt kill those little free units fast enough to not take any damage and this is totally ridiculous. There was NOTHING the Protoss could do against it especially after Leenock used some Vipers to pull the Colossi into the middle of the free units.
Zerg only loses free units + Protoss loses units and has to reproduce = BAD game and totally not "Zerg have to rebuild their army constantly" and thus they get to stockpile even more larvae.
Swarm Host is the new overpowered Zerg unit after the Infestor ...
It doesn't mean that it is entertaining...and what you are talking about is definitely not "midgame." How is that good unit design to have another unit that spawns free units, in addition to the two units that already do this (it's no coincidence that Z players pair them together...) in the Zerg arsenal? In addition the units the thing spawns move slowly, attack slowly and are very easily out DPS'd, are not very aggressive by design, have to be massed to be used effectively...
They are spawned in such a long timing window and aren't microable...They don't even promote player skill. They're just one of those set it and forget it units...They really are. Yes people will talk about how you can maybe do some cool timings with burrowing/unburrowing the hosts and moving backwards, but that in and of itself is fucking boring! And tell me, does Zerg really need another unit which is literally designed to turtle? That's all this race can do...look at the lategame of all 3 MUs.
How is a set it and forget it, EARLIER broodlord any fun at all? Why doesn't Zerg get a MIDGAME power unit that they can use straight up, instead of having to mass 10+ of them and sit behind a wall of spine crawlers, or have a significant macro advantage, or hit a timing to use effectively?
I have never once seen them be effective in a ZvT where the terran is actually trying. Stats do nothing. They are SECONDARY to design. This game is all just "stats stats stats." That's all people ever talk about is balance through numbers. But that doesn't mean that the host is entertaining in the slightest! It's a stupid ripoff of two units Zerg already has!
Every other race has a unit which is straight out STRONG. Specifically in my mind is the siege tank. It is a power unit. You don't go wrong with them. Why are the devs so adverse to giving zerg a power unit that they can use in the midgame and instead give them piece of shit units that are only held together with either...
Wow it hurts to watch these games as a zerg player.. Nestea, JD, and Effort, only Effort won one game. There is just no way you can get SH and infestor and corruptor and survive. From these games I think they need major rework on the zerg units. Not saying that we need buff infestors, but it jus t hurts to watch
On November 12 2012 12:03 lhr0909 wrote: Wow it hurts to watch these games as a zerg player.. Nestea, JD, and Effort, only Effort won one game. There is just no way you can get SH and infestor and corruptor and survive. From these games I think they need major rework on the zerg units. Not saying that we need buff infestors, but it jus t hurts to watch
Watch day4 marineking vs leenock swarmhost-infestor imba
On November 11 2012 15:09 Qwyn wrote: Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming...
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and it's just meh...and it says something, b/c even those are meh...
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play...
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker...
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing...
Anyhow, <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Jaedong!
Roflmao ... I just saw Leenock DESTROY a Protoss with masses of Swarm Hosts. Three Colossi and a bunch of Stalkers didnt kill those little free units fast enough to not take any damage and this is totally ridiculous. There was NOTHING the Protoss could do against it especially after Leenock used some Vipers to pull the Colossi into the middle of the free units.
Zerg only loses free units + Protoss loses units and has to reproduce = BAD game and totally not "Zerg have to rebuild their army constantly" and thus they get to stockpile even more larvae.
Swarm Host is the new overpowered Zerg unit after the Infestor ...
LOL nothing protoss could do haha that was a good one. Let alone nestea/jaedong both got smashed using them as well. I love how you take 1 example out of the many who failed and say that proves it's going to be overpowered, give me a break rofl.
On November 11 2012 15:09 Qwyn wrote: Well, all I have to say is that Zerg units are one and all extremely underwhelming...
Remove the infestor and the broodlord and it's just meh...and it says something, b/c even those are meh...
Doesn't it suggest something to the devs that right now the only viable strategy for a swarm host is a giant contain with spines and infestors...basically making it an earlier broodlord? I mean...come on guys...
I not once felt any excitement when watching the Zerg players play...
I felt really bad for JD, because I could tell he was trying to use the SH like it was a lurker...
Z really needs a midgame power unit. We currently have nothing...
Anyhow, <3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3 Jaedong!
Roflmao ... I just saw Leenock DESTROY a Protoss with masses of Swarm Hosts. Three Colossi and a bunch of Stalkers didnt kill those little free units fast enough to not take any damage and this is totally ridiculous. There was NOTHING the Protoss could do against it especially after Leenock used some Vipers to pull the Colossi into the middle of the free units.
Zerg only loses free units + Protoss loses units and has to reproduce = BAD game and totally not "Zerg have to rebuild their army constantly" and thus they get to stockpile even more larvae.
Swarm Host is the new overpowered Zerg unit after the Infestor ...
LOL nothing protoss could do haha that was a good one. Let alone nestea/jaedong both got smashed using them as well. I love how you take 1 example out of the many who failed and say that proves it's going to be overpowered, give me a break rofl.
Exactly. Leenock was the only one who figured out how to use them properly... as in... cover them with queens/hydra, use nydus to move them around, micro burrow/unburrow them.
It's a new way of playing zerg... a zerg siege weapon. I love it, can't wait for HOTS.
Wow, the leenock games... he dominated MKPs mech and bio so hard. Jangbi's Stargate into Colossus looked pathetic. If you're a zerg looking for some games where swarm hosts and vipers were good - watch Leenock. He already looks hard to stop in HotS right now (granted, most people are not playing HotS incredibly seriously yet - but still...).
EPT
![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.net/imgdata/71211.png)
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I also feel that Rains use of Oracles in both the PvT and PvZ was amazing, constantly slowing Units to buy Time or slow the economy. 
