Why does need mech need to be viable in TvP? - Page 3

On October 29 2012 13:27 ant-1 wrote:
Man, I couldn't agree more. Why are all the terran so focused on having ALL their frickin options available ALL THE TIME? You know some stuff sucks in some matchups.

I'm a toss, I must confess.

Do I cry to mother'blizz because templar tech SUCKS in PvP? (And boy, does it suck). NO.

Do I cry because stargate tech is unused in PvT?

NO.

I frickin get over it.

But terran sometime act like the spoiled children of SC2. They want all, all the time. I do respect people like goody or Lyyna, though. They try stuff, and it even works! They don't cry, they innovate.

On October 29 2012 23:05 Sapphire.lux wrote:
You make a few weird assumptions OP.

You say that mech makes MUs the same. Mech in TvT plays and feels different then mech in TvZ. If they make mech good in TvP, it would play different then in TvT and TvZ.

Even in the same MU, you can play different styles of mech (or bio).

Bio in HOTS is NOT the same as in WOL. For example mines do not need upgrades to function, so there is no reason why you couldn't add mines to the normal MMM composition. Hellbats are bio (i think this is terrible TBH) so they can be added to the MMM comp and be healed. So bio DOES have new toys, even if at this time people are not really exploring them.

Also, you sound like you don't actually like mech play, but other people do. Why shouldn't Blizzard make mech viable? Because you don't like it is not a good reason lol.

On October 29 2012 23:26 vthree wrote:


Do hell bats work of bio upgrades? Can they be slimmed and kite along with the rest of the bio?

On October 30 2012 03:35 Jermstuddog wrote:
TLDR: Mech does not struggle because it's not good enough, Mech struggles because bio is viable.

Or if you didn't understand: If Blizzard wants to make mech viable, the fastest way to do so is to reduce Marine HP

On October 30 2012 03:35 Jermstuddog wrote:
For the record, mech being viable has a lot more to do with Terran than it does Protoss.

Some history:

In BW, Mech was actually viable in all 3 MU, it was the endgame Terran army, eventually getting topped off with BCs if the Terran could afford it.

To understand why Terrans used mech in the first place though, we need to look at the Marine, the core of the Terran army in both games.

In BW, Marines had 40hp, stim literally doubled their DPS to the point that Marines without stim were basically worthless, there was no such thing as a reactor, and the medic's heal ability only had 2 range (i think). Compare those stats to the modern SC2 Marine for a minute.

Now here are some of the reasons why the BW Marine was not even useable in 2 out of 3 MU involving Terran.

-Zealots could kill Marines in 2 hits on even upgrades if the Marine used stim.
-Dragoons were faster, had more hp, and more range than Marines, in fact, the ONLY Terran units that could fight Dragoons reasonably cost effectively were Siege Tanks in Siege-mode and Spider Mines.
-Siege Tanks would 2-shot Marines.
-Vultures would 2-shot Marines.
-Lurkers would 2-shot Marines.
-Hell, even Goliaths would 3-shot Marines.


The moral of the story is that Marines weren't all that great. They could deal good damage, were very cheap, and expendable, which is why they were useful in TvZ, but beyond that, they just didn't have the robust HP needed to maintain utility on into the mid-late game in any MU. Even in TvZ, they would eventually get replaced with Goliaths, Ravens, and Vultures as gas allowed.


Now, back to why anybody would actually use mech and why it was so beautiful.

Terrans used mech because they didn't have a choice. When you get to know how BW works, Terran was the odd race. They were the ones missing the core bread-and-butter unit. Protoss had the Dragoon, which was easily the most standard and powerful shock-troop in the game, Zerg had the Hydralisk, which acted as a half-priced Dragoon as well as the Mutalisk, which was weaker in straight-up combat, but allowed for harassment while still fulfilling that bread-and-butter function.

Terran had the Goliath, which actually kinda sucked when hitting ground units, the Vulture, which sucked when hitting everything but came with 3 badass spider mines, and the Siege Tank, which HAD to be sieged before the fight, couldn't shoot up, and did just as good a job at killing your own stuff as it did the enemy. Terran had to combine all 3 of these units to fill the same functionality that the other two races had by default, and to top it off, Siege Tanks couldn't move. That is why mech is so awesome to watch and play. You feel like you are working with a broken army, but history tells us that Terran was the best race throughout most of BW. Broken army, and still winning. Terrans don't give a fuck, they just win anyway. THIS is why mech is awesome.

TLDR: Mech does not struggle because it's not good enough, Mech struggles because bio is viable.

Or if you didn't understand: If Blizzard wants to make mech viable, the fastest way to do so is to reduce Marine HP

On October 30 2012 03:45 link0 wrote:
Because Bio deathball vs Colossi/HT deathball is extremely boring to watch and to play, with the game decided by which AOE lands first.

BW TvP Mech was a beautiful game of positioning and space control. We want mech, not because nostalgia, but because the current TvP is one of the most boring and ugly matchups ever.