EPT
The Colossus: Old Fires Rekindled - Page 8
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FancYCaT
45 Posts
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Unshapely
140 Posts
Blizzard will not incorporate older spells. I have an idea, if I may. Give Raven a spell called 'Ingire Terra' (set earth on fire). The raven pours a canister of oil on the ground and lights it with fire. Units standing on top will be affected, and possibly burned to death if they don't escape. The fire diminishes as the oil is fully burned. This is an AoE spell of course, I think an area that affects up to 4 to 6 units could be enough. This will give terran yet another tactical spell for controlling terrain. If used correctly, the terran can force the opponents army into an uncomfortable position. The damage done should be enough to scare a lesser army of weaker units, but shouldn't be too much of a threat to stronger armoured units. The exact damage for numbers, time, etc. can be decided after proper testing. Well, that's my idea... I don't know if it adds to the spirit of terran's main theme. | ||
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
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Ramiz1989
12124 Posts
Yeah, cast it on a unit and watch it how it dies slowly... SO MUCH FUN! ... | ||
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Synk
United States297 Posts
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
the worst part was always pvp and its mindless unmicroable colossi wars, now tempests can snipe them late-game, and archons are easier to obtain and more massable while also massacring most ground units | ||
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Rossie
136 Posts
It simply isn't true that the colossus is harming stargate play. Protoss doesn't go stargate in PvT because of the guaranteed presence of marines -- not because of the colossus. Stargate play is limited in PvZ and PvP because of infestors and stalkers respectively -- not the colossus. The unit is already hard-countered in WoL with one of the most absurdly "black-and-white" hard-counters in the game, and will be even more hard-countered in HotS by the viper. The tempest will stop "war of the worlds" from dominating PvP. Terran's bio gets a buff in HotS without any compensating buff to the colossus. Yet the author's suggestion is to nerf this unit which is already hard-countered in WoL and will be less powerful in HotS against vipers, tempests, and faster-healing bio. Why does it always have to be Protoss that falls victim to this pseudo-intellectual nonsense? Imagine if I suggested lowering the rate of fire of the marine but keeping its DPS the same. NOBODY would countenance that proposal (no matter how fancy I dressed it up), even though it's no less questionable or superfluous than the one in the OP. | ||
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ItWhoSpeaks
United States362 Posts
On December 17 2012 05:36 Rossie wrote: A snore-fest of waffle which crescendos into one of the most annoying and faux-intellectual suggestions I've met in a long time. It simply isn't true that the colossus is harming stargate play. Protoss doesn't go stargate in PvT because of the guaranteed presence of marines -- not because of the colossus. Stargate play is limited in PvZ and PvP because of infestors and stalkers respectively -- not the colossus. The unit is already hard-countered in WoL with one of the most absurdly "black-and-white" hard-counters in the game, and will be even more hard-countered in HotS by the viper. The tempest will stop "war of the worlds" from dominating PvP. Terran's bio gets a buff in HotS without any compensating buff to the colossus. Yet the author's suggestion is to nerf this unit which is already hard-countered in WoL and will be less powerful in HotS against vipers, tempests, and faster-healing bio. Why does it always have to be Protoss that falls victim to this pseudo-intellectual nonsense? Imagine if I suggested lowering the rate of fire of the marine but keeping its DPS the same. NOBODY would countenance that proposal (no matter how fancy I dressed it up), even though it's no less questionable or superfluous than the one in the OP. Ok, you disagree with me, that is cool; please don't throw mud. It makes you seem like an immature person and doesn't impress anyone. What you say is correct, the threat of Marines AND Vikings makes it difficult to go Stargate. The Void Ray that OneGoal has been testing has helped with that. As for the Colossus, the old changes simply didn't work. The decreased fire speed made the unit unmicroable and ultimately more prone to amoving. We have opted for a different design for how the unit does damage where the Colossus targets a unit, and after a brief delay, the ground beneath the targeted unit explodes, doing a substantial amount of damage. This has made the colossus a great deal more dependent on skill while allowing things like bio and Hydra splits to mean something versus heavy robo play. | ||
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Swift118
United Kingdom335 Posts
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Rossie
136 Posts
On December 17 2012 07:53 ItWhoSpeaks wrote: It is a dumb suggestion to the core, and you simply haven't given a good reason for why Protoss is so imba that the game would be helped by the absolute money-shot of a nerf that you propose.This has made the colossus a great deal more dependent on skill while allowing things like bio and Hydra splits to mean something versus heavy robo play. It's common knowledge that in WoL, the immortal-sentry all-in is the only thing keeping win rates fairly even. In PvT, the balance seems to be swinging in favour of Terran now that they've figured out to kill their workers and get a 200 supply army. Naniwa said on his stream the other evening that he saw no way to beat that strategy. And that's WoL. In HotS, we have the viper and bio is stronger with no corresponding buff to colossi. And you haven't explained why you're so intent on singling out one unit and one race. Almost every unit in the game can be turned into a more skill-based unit somehow. What about marines? Why not nerf their anti-air capabilities, so Terran doesn't have an easy T1 answer to everything? What about roaches, which are basically A-move units -- possibly the least skill-demanding in the entire game? Why demand yet more micro of a race that ALREADY requires far more micro than Zerg, and is the only race in the game where your army instantly evaporates if you lose a few T3 units? | ||
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acrimoneyius
United States983 Posts
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porygon361
81 Posts
On December 04 2012 21:08 Unshapely wrote: Blizzard will not incorporate older spells. I have an idea, if I may. Give Raven a spell called 'Ingire Terra' (set earth on fire). The raven pours a canister of oil on the ground and lights it with fire. Units standing on top will be affected, and possibly burned to death if they don't escape. The fire diminishes as the oil is fully burned. This is an AoE spell of course, I think an area that affects up to 4 to 6 units could be enough. This will give terran yet another tactical spell for controlling terrain. If used correctly, the terran can force the opponents army into an uncomfortable position. The damage done should be enough to scare a lesser army of weaker units, but shouldn't be too much of a threat to stronger armoured units. The exact damage for numbers, time, etc. can be decided after proper testing. Well, that's my idea... I don't know if it adds to the spirit of terran's main theme. Call it Scorched Earth and I'm all for it  Edit: Replace the Seeker missile for the new ability. | ||
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DaNom
Poland144 Posts
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bhfberserk
Canada390 Posts
OP's idea is a really good start. | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On December 25 2012 22:53 bhfberserk wrote: Do we have any official blizzard words on a re-work colossus??? Instead of focusing on the fungal growth, they really need to look at colossus... OP's idea is a really good start. You're right. Instead of focusing on a unit that dominates all THREE matchups. Lets look at a unit that's being almost completely overshadowed in hots by better units. I agree the colossus is a terrible unit design, but it's better in almost every matchup at the moment to go skytoss than it is to go groundtoss. | ||
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IcED Bk
Canada245 Posts
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winsonsonho
Korea (South)143 Posts
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People_0f_Color
177 Posts
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gCgCrypto
Germany297 Posts
On December 25 2012 16:44 acrimoneyius wrote: Just noticed this thread. It boggles my mind why Blizzard continues to ignore great ideas from the community such as this one. I asked DB about it on twitter (been abusing the fact that i finally have a kinda direct outlet to the devs :D) He responded that they might concider. direct link to twitter conversation its not much but its something. Things like this (simply saying that Blizz conciders) gives me a lot of hope. I think there would be a lot less Balance outrage if Blizzard was giving Information about their thought process more commonly (getting way better since HotS beta though) Edit: What would you guys think about making the colosus attack in a vertical line from itself instead of horizontal. Like it still has its range but instead of starting at range 9 (or enything under that) and then going right or left it now starts range seven (or enything below) and moves up by 2 range (kinda like a hellion shot that starts after a certain range) Why i think this is a good and applicable change: First of all the current colosus attack punishes/ negates. positioning and micro . I cant split vs it and if i surround i give the colosus more surface area to attack. This makes the attack really boring and incredibly strong. Also this makes the colosus require little to no micro because its almost guaranteed to do a lot of damage. Most importantly however is the fact that the current colosus is strongest when its right in the middle of your army I feel like thats the biggest reason (next to FFs) why Protoss is a deathball clump race in the lategame. My change does some stuff to counteract this: 1. You can now "counter" the new colo by splitting your units and having good positioning/ surrounds 2. The colosus now is most effective when its ouside your army on the flanks of your enemys army. this could potentially solve most of the deathball problems with protoss as it would allow for some rebalancing (obviously the colosus numbers must be adjusted accordingly with this change) Would love to hear your feedback, | ||
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xPrimuSx
92 Posts
On December 27 2012 20:00 gCgCrypto wrote: I asked DB about it on twitter (been abusing the fact that i finally have a kinda direct outlet to the devs :D) He responded that they might concider. direct link to twitter conversation its not much but its something. Things like this (simply saying that Blizz conciders) gives me a lot of hope. I think there would be a lot less Balance outrage if Blizzard was giving Information about their thought process more commonly (getting way better since HotS beta though) Edit: What would you guys think about making the colosus attack in a vertical line from itself instead of horizontal. Like it still has its range but instead of starting at range 9 (or enything under that) and then going right or left it now starts range seven (or enything below) and moves up by 2 range (kinda like a hellion shot that starts after a certain range) Why i think this is a good and applicable change: First of all the current colosus attack punishes/ negates. positioning and micro . I cant split vs it and if i surround i give the colosus more surface area to attack. This makes the attack really boring and incredibly strong. Also this makes the colosus require little to no micro because its almost guaranteed to do a lot of damage. Most importantly however is the fact that the current colosus is strongest when its right in the middle of your army I feel like thats the biggest reason (next to FFs) why Protoss is a deathball clump race in the lategame. My change does some stuff to counteract this: 1. You can now "counter" the new colo by splitting your units and having good positioning/ surrounds 2. The colosus now is most effective when its ouside your army on the flanks of your enemys army. this could potentially solve most of the deathball problems with protoss as it would allow for some rebalancing (obviously the colosus numbers must be adjusted accordingly with this change) Would love to hear your feedback, This idea has been brought up before and without making significant changes to the Colossus is absolutely terrible. The Protoss Deathball exists for a reason, Toss units are strongest when they are grouped together. A Colossus away from the main army is normally going to be a dead Colossus. It can't run away from Vikings/Corruptors since they are flying, necessitating a guard force for them, which means a ball of Stalkers. However, Stalkers really aren't that great AA so you need them bunched up too in order to be effective, so either you leave some Colossi exposed or all Colossi under defended. Now, if you remove the Colossus weakness to air, then maybe this idea could work, but you'd likely need to nerf Colossus health too while you're at it. It just is too many changes. | ||
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