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On December 30 2012 15:09 DemigodcelpH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 09:34 RodrigoX wrote:
Truthfully, only build battle hellions, tanks and ghosts, and the composition really works. A lot of the time, Protoss can't engage it. And early pressure with widowmines or hellion drop or even banshee play is nice. Don't Protoss players go Tempest now? Even Carriers now that they're fixed. Once that happens vikings are forced and then you lose, and even if Protoss doesn't go air the tank generally still isn't a threat enough to the Protoss forces. Emp makes it so that when Protoss attacks your tank line with immortals it becomes "I might win this engagement if I've been outplaying him" as opposed to the usual "even if I outmacro him his immortals + army will still wipe my tank line with minimal losses". No mech composition "works" until Blizzard buffs the tank and maybe improves Thor High Impact mode.
Tempest DPS per cost is laughable, the only threat from them is to force into a bad engagement by being annoying and sniping tanks from far away, and a protoss can't just "go carriers", carriers not only cost a shit ton, but they take 2 minutes to build. Even a mech army could get across the map and wreck the protoss base during a carrier transition with any less than 7+ stargates.
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On December 30 2012 04:43 Lyyna wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 00:38 Insoleet wrote:On December 29 2012 21:30 Lyyna wrote:On December 29 2012 00:18 Qwerty85 wrote:
It is still not viable. I am just watching Supernova's stream and he is getting destroyed by amove chargelot-archon-immortal armies going up the ramp against sieged tanks on the high ground and protoss is still destroying his units. Tanks do nothing to protoss. If Blizzard ever wants mech to be viable as a playstyle, tanks should get a decent damage buff.
What was his composition? If you say "tank/hellion", then still say your post is serious, i'm afraid i'll have to kill you. Painfully. (just a joke, but as i said, too much people think mech is only tank/hellion, so i wanna be sure..) People want mech with tanks. Not mech with thors or whatsoever. Mech viable with TANKS inside. I guess you didn't get my comment. Just saying that people tend to think "mech = tank/hellion" and considering that tank hellion isnt viable..
I dont understand why you still giving advices to people trying mech,when you are not doing it.I am still waiting one month ago for you to release some mech replays in HotS and nothing.We want mech with tanks, because mech is about tanks sieged controlling space and making your enemies be scared going there,not allowing them to amove, the way the game is now,ok?And NO,tank+hellion alone is not viable.We need ghosts and some mines working and ofcourse tanks that do real damage and dont cost a fortune.
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On December 31 2012 11:17 ProfessionalNoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:09 DemigodcelpH wrote:On December 28 2012 09:34 RodrigoX wrote:
Truthfully, only build battle hellions, tanks and ghosts, and the composition really works. A lot of the time, Protoss can't engage it. And early pressure with widowmines or hellion drop or even banshee play is nice. Don't Protoss players go Tempest now? Even Carriers now that they're fixed. Once that happens vikings are forced and then you lose, and even if Protoss doesn't go air the tank generally still isn't a threat enough to the Protoss forces. Emp makes it so that when Protoss attacks your tank line with immortals it becomes "I might win this engagement if I've been outplaying him" as opposed to the usual "even if I outmacro him his immortals + army will still wipe my tank line with minimal losses". No mech composition "works" until Blizzard buffs the tank and maybe improves Thor High Impact mode. Tempest DPS per cost is laughable, the only threat from them is to force into a bad engagement by being annoying and sniping tanks from far away, and a protoss can't just "go carriers", carriers not only cost a shit ton, but they take 2 minutes to build. Even a mech army could get across the map and wreck the protoss base during a carrier transition with any less than 7+ stargates.
It isn't like you have to go from one moment on the other pure carriers and make nothing else. You just start chrono-boosting out carriers from 3 stargates for example, it isnt like you lack chronoboosts at this stage.
And it doesnt matter too much tempest dps is low, when you have pretty much no anti air.
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Was just up against a really bad mannered fucking protoss and I went ghost mech.
It was the most one sided ground battle ever, I obliterated his immortals and colossi and voidrays as I had some vikings mixed in.
But, this was the map star station, which is huge, and we had both expanded across the entire map, he was on 100+ probes and just made nothing but fucking carriers. I can't kite carriers with vikings. Nothing can fucking beat these because they can't be kited now. I am floating on 30,000 minerals so I make turrets everywhere and attempt to base trade, but he has 100 fucking probes so he can just throw SGs and pylons everywhere and not worry, and his tempests can work away at my turrets. It i absolutely fucking bullshit. I couldn't kill all his SGs with my mech army at first because it's slow as fuck, and of course mech has no anti air, gotta use vikings, which as I said earlier, once protoss has over 10 carriers (he had about 20 SGs and just chrono'd all tose carriers out) it's gg. They shred everything because you can just keep moving the forwards into vikings. And he has the fucking nerve to premature gg me. Fucking faggot cunt. I really fucking hate protoss. 3 rax stim timing, the staple build, is now dead because of the nexus cannon. There is no fucking hope for terran now, if going mech you can only hope that the protoss has the decency to to gg out and not transition into mass carriers.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 07 2013 03:06 Duncaaaaaan wrote:
Was just up against a really bad mannered fucking protoss and I went ghost mech.
It was the most one sided ground battle ever, I obliterated his immortals and colossi and voidrays as I had some vikings mixed in.
But, this was the map star station, which is huge, and we had both expanded across the entire map, he was on 100+ probes and just made nothing but fucking carriers. I can't kite carriers with vikings. Nothing can fucking beat these because they can't be kited now. I am floating on 30,000 minerals so I make turrets everywhere and attempt to base trade, but he has 100 fucking probes so he can just throw SGs and pylons everywhere and not worry, and his tempests can work away at my turrets. It i absolutely fucking bullshit. I couldn't kill all his SGs with my mech army at first because it's slow as fuck, and of course mech has no anti air, gotta use vikings, which as I said earlier, once protoss has over 10 carriers (he had about 20 SGs and just chrono'd all tose carriers out) it's gg. They shred everything because you can just keep moving the forwards into vikings. And he has the fucking nerve to premature gg me. Fucking faggot cunt. I really fucking hate protoss. 3 rax stim timing, the staple build, is now dead because of the nexus cannon. There is no fucking hope for terran now, if going mech you can only hope that the protoss has the decency to to gg out and not transition into mass carriers.
Just quit trying mech in TvP.This is all we Terrans should do till Blizz make it work somehow.Morrow did it,so as avilo and you wont see any korean pro even playing HotS...
Big maps like this arent mechfriendly.You just cant prevent P from expanding all arround the map.If you are able to kill his SG army with 40 WP he will kill you for sure.Mass Zealots or Stalkers at this stage are so deadly..You must trade armies perfectly,because you just cant remax so quickly...
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On January 07 2013 03:19 Dvriel wrote:
Just quit trying mech in TvP.This is all we Terrans should do till Blizz make it work somehow.Morrow did it,so as avilo and you wont see any korean pro even playing HotS...
Koreans are slowly moving towards HotS and you can already see ppl like SuperNova Lucky Yugiho or Seed playing high-level games.
Not that they give much hope for the future of mech but still.
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Well,finally we got answer from Blizzard: They gonna try to fix mech in TvP this week and THIS I think is the best way to demonstrate all people were saying mech works(Lyyna,what do you think now?) in TvP ,that they were wrong.Let see what Blizzard does this time and hope after the buffs we are not gonna suffer massive nerfs...
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On January 10 2013 00:47 Dvriel wrote:
Well,finally we got answer from Blizzard: They gonna try to fix mech in TvP this week and THIS I think is the best way to demonstrate all people were saying mech works(Lyyna,what do you think now?) in TvP ,that they were wrong.Let see what Blizzard does this time and hope after the buffs we are not gonna suffer massive nerfs...
I just hope Blizzard realizes that "mech" is associated with positional play using siege tanks as the core of your army. Nobody wants to a see Thor Battlehellion attackmove army.
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On January 10 2013 04:38 dust7 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 00:47 Dvriel wrote:
Well,finally we got answer from Blizzard: They gonna try to fix mech in TvP this week and THIS I think is the best way to demonstrate all people were saying mech works(Lyyna,what do you think now?) in TvP ,that they were wrong.Let see what Blizzard does this time and hope after the buffs we are not gonna suffer massive nerfs... I just hope Blizzard realizes that "mech" is associated with positional play using siege tanks as the core of your army. Nobody wants to a see Thor Battlehellion attackmove army.
Aahahaha omg yes
If blizzard does something dumb like this... They'll loose all last hope of the community. ^^
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Ultimately I don't see Mech being a viable end-game composition, especially vs skytoss and I don't think Blizz is going to add an AA mech unit. I think they might make more modifications to the thor and make its AA abilities stronger or make them more massable in a similar vein as goliaths.
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On January 11 2013 19:44 BlackPanther wrote:
Ultimately I don't see Mech being a viable end-game composition, especially vs skytoss and I don't think Blizz is going to add an AA mech unit. I think they might make more modifications to the thor and make its AA abilities stronger or make them more massable in a similar vein as goliaths.
The reason for that isnt only because mech units are crap (Thor AA is stupidly underpowered and the unit is terribly slow) but also because of the far superior range of the Tempest. The only way to enable someone to deal with such a threat would be to have a more mobile unit ... something like "immobile Siege Tank vs. everything else" for example, but the Tempest is far from immobile.
Blizzard design is based on their "vision" and not on common sense ... and their "vision" of mech doesnt really involve the Siege Tank at all.
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On January 11 2013 20:35 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 19:44 BlackPanther wrote:
Ultimately I don't see Mech being a viable end-game composition, especially vs skytoss and I don't think Blizz is going to add an AA mech unit. I think they might make more modifications to the thor and make its AA abilities stronger or make them more massable in a similar vein as goliaths. The reason for that isnt only because mech units are crap (Thor AA is stupidly underpowered and the unit is terribly slow) but also because of the far superior range of the Tempest. The only way to enable someone to deal with such a threat would be to have a more mobile unit ... something like "immobile Siege Tank vs. everything else" for example, but the Tempest is far from immobile. Blizzard design is based on their "vision" and not on common sense ... and their "vision" of mech doesnt really involve the Siege Tank at all.
Well, blizzard wants the "siege tanks/battle hellions/raven/ghosts" composition to be viable, rather than pure mech.
This is a shame because it creates terribly boring games. The correcet solution is of course to buff tanks and fix the economy so tanks won't be overpowered if the opponent abuses its immbolity.
Unfortunately it seems that blizzard just doesn't get it yet. (maybe they will get it 2-3 years from now on - Dustin Browder is quite a slow learner, took him some time as well to figure out that steppes of war and 1 bases rushes wasn't very entertaining).
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On January 11 2013 22:59 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 20:35 Rabiator wrote:On January 11 2013 19:44 BlackPanther wrote:
Ultimately I don't see Mech being a viable end-game composition, especially vs skytoss and I don't think Blizz is going to add an AA mech unit. I think they might make more modifications to the thor and make its AA abilities stronger or make them more massable in a similar vein as goliaths. The reason for that isnt only because mech units are crap (Thor AA is stupidly underpowered and the unit is terribly slow) but also because of the far superior range of the Tempest. The only way to enable someone to deal with such a threat would be to have a more mobile unit ... something like "immobile Siege Tank vs. everything else" for example, but the Tempest is far from immobile. Blizzard design is based on their "vision" and not on common sense ... and their "vision" of mech doesnt really involve the Siege Tank at all. Well, blizzard wants the "siege tanks/battle hellions/raven/ghosts" composition to be viable, rather than pure mech. This is a shame because it creates terribly boring games. The correcet solution is of course to buff tanks and fix the economy so tanks won't be overpowered if the opponent abuses its immbolity. Unfortunately it seems that blizzard just doesn't get it yet. (maybe they will get it 2-3 years from now on - Dustin Browder is quite a slow learner, took him some time as well to figure out that steppes of war and 1 bases rushes wasn't very entertaining).
The core unit for that composition is still the Siege Tank and that unit is terrible right now. I wont complain about having a few Ravens or Ghosts in the mix, but more than a few isnt mech anymore.
Siege Tanks do not synergize well (= support a core of other stuff) with any other units ... other units synergize with the Siege Tank. Thus the tank is the cornerstone around which everything has to be balanced and not the other way round. The weaknesses of the tank (immobility and no AA) really require other units to be part of the mix, but atm the Siege Tank doesnt even deal with all the non-Immortal Protoss stuff well and I would call their damage to Zerglings (35 damage in the CORE RADIUS of the splash only and half or less in the outside) pitiful and inefficient as well. The only conclusion is ... the Siege Tank needs more damage ... flat damage without bonus damage ... because it is penalized by splash AND weak base damage which makes it terrible against light units. The siege upgrade must be added back to the game ... or we will see tank rushes which are kinda like 9-pools.
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On December 31 2012 11:17 ProfessionalNoob wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2012 15:09 DemigodcelpH wrote:On December 28 2012 09:34 RodrigoX wrote:
Truthfully, only build battle hellions, tanks and ghosts, and the composition really works. A lot of the time, Protoss can't engage it. And early pressure with widowmines or hellion drop or even banshee play is nice. Don't Protoss players go Tempest now? Even Carriers now that they're fixed. Once that happens vikings are forced and then you lose, and even if Protoss doesn't go air the tank generally still isn't a threat enough to the Protoss forces. Emp makes it so that when Protoss attacks your tank line with immortals it becomes "I might win this engagement if I've been outplaying him" as opposed to the usual "even if I outmacro him his immortals + army will still wipe my tank line with minimal losses". No mech composition "works" until Blizzard buffs the tank and maybe improves Thor High Impact mode. Tempest DPS per cost is laughable, the only threat from them is to force into a bad engagement by being annoying and sniping tanks from far away
I'm not sure what you're talking about, but it's generally agreed upon by anyone that plays that Tempest + HT is an autowin. Mix in Carriers too if you want to be sadistic about it.
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Can someone give me some advice on how to beat zerg lategame with mech?
I just got steamrolled by Hydra +Ultraliks + viper combo.
I tried to get hellbats since they are melee with Tanks and BCS, but this didn't work at all.
He just clouded all my units, and then hooked in my Bcs and some tanks.
Thanks.
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Sorry, just a general question, as I don't play T or HoTS, but this occurred to me the other day:
Is there any reason why TvP mech should be viable? Is the only reason people are adamant about this is because it was how TvP was played in BW? (Ironically, it was the only way.) Assuming Blizzard is trying to contort through too many hoops to make TvP mech "work", perhaps it's better for them to say mech only in TvZ/TvT and leave TvP as mainly Bio, and perhaps, in time Bio-Mech. It would be cool to see mech in TvP, no question. But, I don't know if this is a sufficient reason in itself.
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On January 12 2013 02:58 aZealot wrote:
It would be cool to see mech in TvP, no question. But, I don't know if this is a sufficient reason in itself.
Why, if I want a cool expansion I want to do cool thing.
Also do you remember how cool was the tank in sc1, my favorite unit. The tank in sc1 is the reason I play terran, and in sc2 they suck now :O .
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
On January 12 2013 02:58 aZealot wrote:
Sorry, just a general question, as I don't play T or HoTS, but this occurred to me the other day:
Is there any reason why TvP mech should be viable? Is the only reason people are adamant about this is because it was how TvP was played in BW? (Ironically, it was the only way.) Assuming Blizzard is trying to contort through too many hoops to make TvP mech "work", perhaps it's better for them to say mech only in TvZ/TvT and leave TvP as mainly Bio, and perhaps, in time Bio-Mech. It would be cool to see mech in TvP, no question. But, I don't know if this is a sufficient reason in itself.
It's because if full mech isn't as good as bio in TvP we'll never see anything bar bio. That sucks for many reasons, but one of the main ones being that the terran has to do loads of damage before all the AOE comes out or it becomes a seriously uphill battle and it's the protoss' job to lose the game rather than the terrans to win.
It all comes down to without mech the matchup will stay boring, we'll be stuck with the same stagnant metagame in the matchup for 2 or so more years where nothing changes and even for protoss it makes things worse. If mech isn't viable and bio is all there is, proper stargate play like carriers will never work in TvP. Marines are too good against interceptors.
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I think the point is TvP in BW was really fun, not some rigid "there must be mech-play because that's how it was in BW" argument. Mech in TvP was positional and strategic and cool. Bio-based play in SC2 can also be cool, but it has become very stale. Early bio aggression is shut down by forcefield and now the MSC. So the metagame is the 10-minute medivac poke while the terran either adds 2 more rax for heavy pressure or takes his 3rd and macros up more. Multi-pronged drops are fun, but limited in variety, and I think most competent protosses can shut it down (esp. if they go templar tech first). And what normally results unless the protoss stays on colossus or templar tech is that the aggression basically stops while both sides build a deathball, culminating in one big battle. It's like a script. More options means more possibilities and more interesting games, hopefully.
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On January 12 2013 02:58 aZealot wrote:
Sorry, just a general question, as I don't play T or HoTS, but this occurred to me the other day:
Is there any reason why TvP mech should be viable? Is the only reason people are adamant about this is because it was how TvP was played in BW? (Ironically, it was the only way.) Assuming Blizzard is trying to contort through too many hoops to make TvP mech "work", perhaps it's better for them to say mech only in TvZ/TvT and leave TvP as mainly Bio, and perhaps, in time Bio-Mech. It would be cool to see mech in TvP, no question. But, I don't know if this is a sufficient reason in itself.
The simple answer: Why should it NOT be viable?
More choice in tactics is GOOD.
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EPT
