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I would like to hear your opinions on how to stop the deathball
Example:
Terran: Allow more ways to punish mech immobility and benefit spreading army out make mech positioning even better(more important) give mech a new "core unit" (I wouldn't mind an AA or mech but i think they should retain a weakness to air)
Zerg: add more a new mid tear "core" unit so that they don't just press straight to hive and a new fast counter attack unit
Protoss: A new Gateway unit that is tear 2-2.5 if done right it would punish early 4 gate also reavers(while keeping colossus) and a "real" harass unit
I think that more options/core(midgame units) would reduce the deathball by increasing midgame length and punishing immobile or clumped armies
-This is about balance design and concept
-I want better funner games where we have a midgame more aggression, less all-ins , and No more deathballs
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United Kingdom12022 Posts
Not that I disagree with your ideas, but is.
Terran: Allow more ways to punish mech immobility
Really necessary? Everything in the game already punishes mech immobility. :p
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give more AoE options to the races.
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There is no Terran Deathball.
And we have enough ways to punih Mech right now.
Zerg: Thats why you have the Swarm Host. But you also need some interaction/disadvantage from going to broodlords. Infestors are too good an stilize you for going to fast Hive etc. In my opinioni we need a way to punish going greedy into Hightech. Right now there is only a way in PvZ with the Immortal sentry allin. In TvZ almost never can kill the Zerg. You have to get a huge advantage and press this constantly.
Protoss Deathball is fine right now. Zerg have ways to deal with it and Terrans should be able to mech against it in the expansion.
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When I say more ways to punish mech immobility I just mean more options.
With protoss i just hate seeing cheese rush or turtle till deathball every game,
and zerg just seem to take 3 bases fast rush hive and go broodlord infestor
When I play I would like a longer early-midgame with more options counter attacks and conflicts
I want the players to be clashing not oh they have map control so you turtle I want engagements
to be necessary greedy and over aggressive play to be punished
I want to see more builds and options that strengthen the idea that you don't have to hit T3 to
compete I would like to see more anti-siege units and counter attack/raiding units
I want to have more units that play off of each other so that when one unit is massed it has no chance
Also if you disagree tell me your solutions or ideas and what you would like to see 
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All these things are adressed right now in HotS by different units. Do you play the beta?
And there are more than enough ways to punish mech immobility. Mech is already way weaker than Bio. Why would you "nerf" it even more?
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Not a nerf to mech just other options
As well I would like to see (since the warhound was removed) a new core unit for mech
I feel that mech once people start to figure it out more will out preform bio and I am looking for
less deathballs more spread out milti-pronged attacks and I feel bio dose that well I would like
to see mech gain options so that it can "spread out" more and not be to thin to function the
only thing I would like to see are options against deathballs and turtling till T3 NR20 just dosnt
exciting or fun to me same thing with NR10 so I would like units abilities or changes that would
hinder/destroy the deathball
I like the way Hots is going but it doesn't seem to be doing much against the deathball with the
new changes to the MsC I like the concept of the tempest and SH being siege units that operate
far from the rest of your forces but WM don't do this for mech
Though I would focus my changes on Protoss and Zerg because I believe they are the root of the
deathball problem Protoss because of early defense and the strength of its T3 and zerg because
it lacks a proficient midgame and again the strength of its T3
Just to make sure I am not being unclear I know that a lot of these problems are being addressed
But most are still a problem from what I have seen in Hots
So I would like to know your solutions and what problems you see.
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Well, one way to NOT counter it, is by introducing Swarm Hosts. The opponent needs a deathball to beat the locusts, abd Zerg needs a deathball to protect the Swarm Hosts.
While yes, the Swarm host is quite fine, it only encourages death ball play.
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There is no Terran Deathball.
Are we playing the same game?
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On October 05 2012 02:12 Grendel wrote:
Well, one way to NOT counter it, is by introducing Swarm Hosts. The opponent needs a deathball to beat the locusts, abd Zerg needs a deathball to protect the Swarm Hosts.
While yes, the Swarm host is quite fine, it only encourages death ball play.
If zerg overcommits to making hosts, you counter it by going around the hosts with your mobile units, e.g., drops, prism play, blink stalkers. Zerg on the other hand does need an army to protect hosts, but since they are easy to parry given a critical mass of AE damage, that army needs to be mobile enough to exploit the opponent when they are zoned out by the hosts, e.g., speed hydras.
If you have two players that aren't comfortable with multitasking, then yes, hosts encourages deathball play. But you get deathball play in that scenario, regardless.
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On October 05 2012 00:59 Tppz! wrote:
There is no Terran Deathball.
And we have enough ways to punih Mech right now.
Zerg: Thats why you have the Swarm Host. But you also need some interaction/disadvantage from going to broodlords. Infestors are too good an stilize you for going to fast Hive etc. In my opinioni we need a way to punish going greedy into Hightech. Right now there is only a way in PvZ with the Immortal sentry allin. In TvZ almost never can kill the Zerg. You have to get a huge advantage and press this constantly.
Protoss Deathball is fine right now. Zerg have ways to deal with it and Terrans should be able to mech against it in the expansion.
Well yeah, there are ways to deal with the deathballs, but that doesn't make it fun to watch a game where players just don't attack for the first ten minutes and attack when you are at 200/200.
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On October 05 2012 03:00 stard1n wrote:Are we playing the same game?
+1, the bio ball is basicly a deathball
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Remove unit synergy, unit counters, unit clumping, infinate unit selection and give the licence to the starcraft series to another company (preferably Valve).
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Terran death ball, lol funny
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On October 05 2012 03:22 Berceno wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 03:00 stard1n wrote:There is no Terran Deathball. Are we playing the same game? +1, the bio ball is basicly a deathball
Terran players are just in denial.
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How is the Terran bioball a deathball when it doesn't trade nearly as efficiently as Z and P? You also need drops to augment it.
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Protoss has the army that benefits most from deathballs, mainly because their units have a greater cost/size ratio so they stack better.
The game would need major redesigns to discourage deathballs. There needs to be units that deal massive AOE damage (to prevent enemy army from deathballing), but the AOE damage must not stack (to discourage yourself from deathballing) OR are HIGHLY immobile.
IMO, tanks should have their seige mode damage buffed in exchange for even slower transformation times.
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On October 05 2012 03:22 Berceno wrote:
+1, the bio ball is basicly a deathball
Though the early game and parts of the midgame, yes, but as soon as the other races get enough AoE, a Terran is screwed if he doesn't split up his bioball properly. If you clump up your bio and A-move death ball style into a Zerg or Protoss army, you will ge fungaled and die, or stormed and die.
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There seems to be a huge amount of confusion regarding the term 'mech'.
we have the first group of people who have watched pro korean BW and know 'mech' to be just positional leap frogging tank play with vulture harass and map control.
we have the second group who just consider 'mech' as factory units.
please state whether your refering to positional play or just making units from the factory, as it has created much confusion, even for the people at the blizzard. We all know how well this has turned out especially with blizzard comming up with the warhound to help 'mech'
Currently WOL mech is not positional mech play, its just another death ball. you just max out and march your army to the enemy base and kill him.
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I consider Mech to be mostly factory based play witch is supposed
to function as advanced positional play but as mech is currently
is just a turtle till 200 deathball I believe the term mech shouldn't have
a confusing definition
Mech = positional factory based play
To address bio it is a deathball just not a t3 deathball
I wish to stop all deathballing not just the T3 P and Z
deathballs as well though terran bio gets eaten up by
Aoe that means a T1-2 comp forced a T3 comp to counter
This just dosen't seem right to me
On another note I would see Siege tank buff either back to BW siege tanks or some compromise
and the viking ground for to recive a minor buff when in assault form I would give it 2 5damage
attacks with a bonus against light and let it recive benifits from ground upgrades in assault form
The reason I like the SH is that it encourages supporting your army from afar counter attacking
I would add in the reaver for its massive Aoe damage and slow pushes with the reaver would be
easily punished by counter attacks
I would add a new "core" unit to terran mech to allow for new compositions and mid-game options
and a new "core" zerg unit to allow for a longer mid-game where they could trade effectivly and not
rely on roaches and a new zerg counter attack unit that could deal a great deal of burst damage
pull out not quite harass more like a raider I would like to see units of this kind for all races
Raiding an enemy base instead of just hitting workers something not effective to mass but good
as a hit and run even against buildings not like mutas or banshee this would hopefully break up
units because you would not want these in a big extended fight but wouldn't just become obsolete
On the note of the other gateway unit my thought is it would require Twilight Council or Robo
You could warp it in and it would be a defensive specialist (something in-between immortal sentry)
It would hopefully make 4 gate obsolete by being more cost effective on the defense and reduce
problems with all-ins that way the MsC could fill some cool new roles for protoss
On the topic of MsC wouldn't it just be easier to say it starts on the nexus when you build it
then you transform it just like into the mothership to make it mobile and then again into the
mothership? this seems like a simpler solution to me then you don't have it getting out before zerg
has 2 queens or terran have enough marines when it comes to recall it supports deathballs a little to
much you have to group them together to get the benefit of coarse the core having to be there thus
denial is cool but what if it made smaller cores that could then recall back to it with a smaller radius
costing its energy these could be used to scout or support your army it would remain at base for
defense and when you wanted to transform it you would need them all with it to transform meaning
the enemy could more easily deny motherships(for a short time) and would have a way to tell it was
occurring by noticing the orbs where not out and about
I think some of these changes would prevent deathballing and help to create a more dynamic battlefield
Thoughts on my ideas concepts?
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On October 05 2012 00:57 MateShade wrote:
Is this thread a joke?
I agree. A bad OP is a bad OP.
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Haha. I do feel there is no terran death ball. They are forced to fight together cause protoss and Zerg are moving their units together.
Infestors should be changed in my opinion, if not Zerg will continue to build gglords while turtlin behind turret.
Colossus is the main problem for Protoss, but there are enough threads about these, nothing will be changed. The main problem are obvious, but is too much for blizzard to change them apparently.
I really do feel there is no Terran deathball, it will be quite embarrassing for a Zerg to complain about deathball....
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EPT
