• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:23
CEST 23:23
KST 06:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (July 27-Aug 2): SHIN's big week0SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-69SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-64PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)14Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE18
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #4/8 - Percival Protoss AoE skill expression 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) StarCraft 2 at SC4ALL II Invite #3/8 - Clem
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 537 Hostile Territory Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance
Brood War
General
Are you ready for ASL 22? NEW HYPE VIDEO ASL22 General Discussion Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ The Korean Terminology Thread
Tourneys
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament - Season 3 SC4ALL II: Brood War - $2500 - Dec 5-6
Strategy
Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo 2 thread General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Iain M Banks Says He Has Cancer And Months To Live European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Clem Fan Club INnoVation Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
NBA General Discussion Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Please support my new stand…
Peanutsc
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6345 users

HotS Balance Update #4 [9/28/12] - Page 14

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
500 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 26 Next All
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
September 29 2012 11:14 GMT
#261
The MC is just such a crappy design. Just attach it to the nexus really and tweak the recall spell a bit, not make this silly scouting unit that sort of forces your army to move at a slower speed to utilize the recall..
The design for HoTs is still terrible on the terran and protoss side, only zerg updates are looking pretty cool.

I don't get really why they don\t have the MC they wanted first. Attached to a nexus that can be shifted with an ability from one nexus to another. Then just give it a recall function but make it limited so it won't allow free all-ins without risk.
For example just make the recall a limited number of units! Cap it to 6 or 8 units so it's ideal for allowing small pushes and harassment but can't let you freely return from an all-in attack, that way you actually encourage small attacks and prevent deathballs... The route for protoss now with the defensive aoe on the oracle they are only enforcing deadball syndrome even more...

Why the widowmine isn't already 1 supply but tweaked for that puzzles me as well. Having a static/defensive unit take up 2 supply is just stupid as it reduces the amount of active units on the map.

Only succesful designs to me so far are locust swarm (barely) and the viper (coolest new unit). Widow mine has good potential but rest is just boring or doesn't improve the gameplay at all
TeveT
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden148 Posts
September 29 2012 11:18 GMT
#262
I'm just worried that this mothership core makes the protoss more hesitant to split up its army, ie. pro death ball syndrome... Even if the changes themselves make sense...
[]Phase[]
Profile Joined September 2010
Belgium927 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 11:25:39
September 29 2012 11:22 GMT
#263
glad that they changed recall, opposed to some reactions here. How many 'snipe 3rds and recall' were we going to see otherwise? Now, its still possible, but the opponent has more time, since the MSC will take its time getting there.
MSC can still be used lategame, where you have it around the middle of the map and recall out of sticky situations, but earlymidgame its still mainly as defence.

I like the changes.

EDIT ; after seeing the MSC core in action... Its still pretty viable to do the 3rd snipe. The speed is higher than I expected. I could only check this via a stream just now, sorry
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
September 29 2012 11:23 GMT
#264
not make this silly scouting unit that sort of forces your army to move at a slower speed to utilize the recall..
The design for HoTs is still terrible on the terran and protoss side, only zerg updates are looking pretty cool.

You don't need to move your army at slower speed. Come to enemy, atack a bit, and while you're atacking enemy, M-Core coming closer and you can use recall.
FlukyS
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Ireland485 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-29 11:31:23
September 29 2012 11:23 GMT
#265
On September 29 2012 20:14 Markwerf wrote:
Why the widowmine isn't already 1 supply but tweaked for that puzzles me as well. Having a static/defensive unit take up 2 supply is just stupid as it reduces the amount of active units on the map.


I don't think maxed out 200/200 on widow mines is what they want thats why they still have it at 2 supply. I still think they are very effective even at 2 supply its just they need to figure them out. What I find a bit awkward about the widow mine is the activation thing because you deactivate mines and put them under every expo to block or do it like Zergs with baneling landmines in mineral lines and you see how abusable it is. (im not complaining that they can put them in mineral lines im more complaining about the fact that they can wait for more workers to come and then let it off its just 1 more thing that you have to worry about when taking a new base)

I think the widow mine will be perfect if they removed the activate/deactivate thing and made them only allowed to borrow once and then the supply is dropped. Id be fine with that it would mean people can't bank up 25 widow mines they would instead use them defensively or offensively only. And also it should have a 1 second time to explode to allow for micro to pick off badly placed clumps of mines for players who are careful it would save the world from slow widow mine pushes across the map.
deathfoe
Profile Joined January 2012
Czech Republic6 Posts
September 29 2012 11:25 GMT
#266
They are changing Mothership Core so much ... I do not know if I like it. Still w8ing for beta...
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16125 Posts
September 29 2012 11:28 GMT
#267
Love the Purify change. Hate the Recall Change.

The Mothership basically now has Scroll of Town Portal?

I really don't understand why we can't just go back to the original model of the Mothership Core, one that was attached to the Nexus and couldn't move.

Is movement REALLY that important if it's causing all of these other weird design issues? I don't get it.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
arbus
Profile Joined September 2012
10 Posts
September 29 2012 11:32 GMT
#268
seriously every time they change something, i hope it stays now like it is. A mobile mothership with a different recall is now like a wc3 hero with townsportal, i kinda like it but cant it be a bit faster really?? Every standard unit is 2,25 speed why 1,8??

If some one wants to switch to sc2 from wc3 at last i can really recommend choosing protoss, it was even before the most like wc3 race with high hp units, many spells summon like unit production but this pretty much resembles now what was missing. It even transforms in late game into a real MB like level 6 Ultra Spell.
nachtkap
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany197 Posts
September 29 2012 11:33 GMT
#269
no BW carrier mechanic =(
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
September 29 2012 11:41 GMT
#270
On September 29 2012 20:33 nachtkap wrote:
no BW carrier mechanic =(


They're putting their attention first to the newly introduced units. I think the change to the mothership core illustrates this really well. The next thing that will undergo quite a significent change is the widow mine. I think they'll implement it as something a burrowed shredder drops creating a minefield.

after they feel the HotS units are at a good place design wise they'll take a look to older units
Pokemon Master
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
September 29 2012 11:43 GMT
#271
I don't like the new recall at all. Protoss is lacking in mobility, that's why you can't move out early game - units are slow as **** and too expensive to just walk out on the map with. Zealots are not fast and the idea of a mothership core with 75% of its speed following your army so you can recall doesn't exactly provide any mobility at all. Basically you now have an even slower army that you HAVE to keep together because you can't a) leave your army exposed or b) leave your core exposed.

I really don't like this. The rest seems reasonable, purify is really good now.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
EnE
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
417 Posts
September 29 2012 11:55 GMT
#272
On September 29 2012 08:40 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 08:08 avilo wrote:
That's it for Terran? -_- good change though, 4 sec to burrow seemed like forever. Supply cost is still too expensive imo.


I think its in an awkward window where 1 supply widow mines would be retarded and extremely overpowered, but 2 is a liittle too much, but we are stuck with whole integars. Cant really go around setting units to 1.5 supply, and i dont think blizzard wants to nerf it, either, its difficult to rebalance construction time and other factors


Zerglings
I'm embarrased by my past actions and even more ashamed of my present thoughts and future endeavors to clear my name.
800800
Profile Joined October 2011
Afghanistan64 Posts
September 29 2012 11:58 GMT
#273
At this point we should be allow to make more than one MSC. Terran can have multiple Orbital, Zerg can have multiple Queen, Protoss is limit to one MSC. Do you think Protoss will be OP if they can make multiple MSC? (the one in this patch)
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
September 29 2012 12:04 GMT
#274
On September 29 2012 20:58 800800 wrote:
At this point we should be allow to make more than one MSC. Terran can have multiple Orbital, Zerg can have multiple Queen, Protoss is limit to one MSC. Do you think Protoss will be OP if they can make multiple MSC? (the one in this patch)

Hahah wtf dude? How can you even compare Queens and Orbital Commands with the Mothership Core?
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
September 29 2012 12:18 GMT
#275
I don't understand why is Entomb still in the game?! The most stupid ability ever. And they are trying to balance its numbers so it probably means they want to keep it?!

Looks like I will be pirating Hots just to play the campaign
iSEV
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden47 Posts
September 29 2012 12:19 GMT
#276
On September 29 2012 07:52 SoniC_eu wrote:
Hmm, if I had a beta key I would be able to comment! *hint hint* :p


Second that, nudge nudge
Disappointment is the gap that exists between expectation and reality
800800
Profile Joined October 2011
Afghanistan64 Posts
September 29 2012 12:21 GMT
#277
On September 29 2012 21:04 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 29 2012 20:58 800800 wrote:
At this point we should be allow to make more than one MSC. Terran can have multiple Orbital, Zerg can have multiple Queen, Protoss is limit to one MSC. Do you think Protoss will be OP if they can make multiple MSC? (the one in this patch)

Hahah wtf dude? How can you even compare Queens and Orbital Commands with the Mothership Core?



They are those unit in the game that provide protection/ help econ. They may not do the EXACT same thing, but the purpose of them in the game are the same. I guess ChronoBoost from Nexus would be more similar to Queen and Orbital, but it never struck me, maybe I should build an extra Nexus for chrono. I mean that would be just plain stupid. But when I play Terran making an Orbital in my base is viable and isn't so bad. As for why I compare it to MSC, it is because that was what it was originally design to do; help out in base.
Leviance
Profile Joined November 2009
Germany4079 Posts
September 29 2012 12:28 GMT
#278
I like the changes. Blink Stalkers + Recall seemed way too strong on the HotS streams. Now we have an even cooler unit in the MSC and recall is nerfed but still very doable. Exactly what we need. Awesome.
Locusts seem so strong with range 3...

"Blizzard is never gonna nerf Terran because of those American and European fuck" - Korean Netizen
dragonsuper
Profile Joined October 2010
Liechtenstein222 Posts
September 29 2012 12:41 GMT
#279
Ok now it's official , at blizzard they really don't have a clue about where this game is going...

I am completely unsatisfied about all the changes they are proposing from HotS announcement.
lol
Jakkerr
Profile Joined December 2010
Netherlands2549 Posts
September 29 2012 12:49 GMT
#280
With the Mothership core I habe that feeling that it was supposed to be really good and change the way Protoss currently plays but at release they will have changed it so much no1 really cares about them.
Prev 1 12 13 14 15 16 26 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Ladder Legends
20:00
Saturday Open #1
Liquipedia
Ladder Legends
18:00
Amateur Showdown #5
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ByuN 635
NeuroSwarm 128
ProTech85
Railgan 57
EmSc Tv 36
Ketroc 27
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyun 36
910 12
Dota 2
syndereN492
League of Legends
Doublelift5239
Counter-Strike
minikerr126
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu402
Khaldor185
Other Games
gofns14457
tarik_tv6323
Grubby2229
FrodaN725
XaKoH 120
ROOTCatZ92
Mew2King67
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick900
BasetradeTV220
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 36
EmSc2Tv 36
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 75
• StrangeGG 44
• davetesta25
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 48
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21134
League of Legends
• imaqtpie2846
• Shiphtur501
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
11h 37m
OSC
15h 37m
OSC
1d 2h
WardiTV Weekly
1d 13h
The Patches Monday
1d 18h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiG Sty Festival
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
RSL Revival: Season 6
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W7
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
Escore Tournament S3: W8
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSA
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.