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On September 30 2012 00:09 Ahli wrote:
Some stuff I tested in the unit test map in HotS:
The mothership core is now as fast as:
- Overseer (unupgraded)
- Overlord (upgraded)
- Battlecruiser
- Thor
- Carrier
- High Templar
- Locust (offcreep)
Mutalisks are now faster than the Oracle.
- MS Core has the same range as Marines
- 2 Marines (no upgrades) kill the shield of the Core and do a tiny bit of damage versus the Core
- 3 Marines (no no upgrades) bring the Core down to approx 54 hp
- 4 Marines (no no upgrades) kill the Core with 1 full Marine and one with 21hp.
- Queens can outrange the Core by 2
- Core can kill 1 unmicroed Queen, with enough creep space it might be possible to kill the Core with only 1 queen (but the Core can fly away and recharge its shields and come again)
- Attached MS Core dies with Nexus
- 3 Mutalisks are required to kill the attached Core (if you attack it immediatly, if you fly around and give the Core 2 unnecessary shots, the Mutalisks will die)
- Purify (weapon of attached Core) can't be upgraded. It stays at 20.
- Vipers cannot abduct attached Cores
- Cores can make a moving shot (hit stop hotkey, then right click to move)
- HTs can feedback the Core while possibly receiving 1 hit
- The attached Core does not regenerate energy.
- Ghosts can EMP Core and Nexus (but they need to target more towards the middle of the Nexus)
- Units will acquire the Core when they are attacked by it instead of attacking the workers (as usual; this isn't something special).
Nice post, actually contributing. Ty!
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so what is the change to widow mines? because isn't related to burrow...
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Huge change to the Mama core, can not wait to see what people do with it now.
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Has been posted elsewhere.
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core's mass recall change is kind of odd... what if u have multiple nexus, would u have to manually select the one you wish to teleport to?
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got to say the MCore is a damn good offensive unit right now. It is basically free highground vision + has a few full energy sentries included. Funny way for a unit that was supposed to prevent basetrades. It is not that hard to fix though, they just have to give it a vision range of 2.
On the other hand its real fun to dart in an snipe a worker and dart out.
If they really intend to keep it that way i think they will have to up the techlevel a bit. But i would have preferred the MCore as a defense unit and right now it is far from useful defensive unless you fight ground only units.
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To me, it seems MS Core is a necessary unit in TvZ, at least with all the new options Z has vs P . But, my one concern is TvP. Terran's new units, with mech not looking viable and bio being a solid playstyle vs P, are basically negligible in that match up. The MS Core becomes a sort of buff to any standard P play style vs P, while T is just the same vs P as in WoL. If TvP is balanced in WoL, I can't imagine the addition of the MS Core to the match up, as well as possible viability of the new Stargate units vs the limited viability mech units of Terran keeping the match up balanced.
Basically Protoss has new Stargate options vs Terran, and the bonus of a MS Core, while Terran would either be forced to go mech to even utilize it's new units, or just play the same style vs the improved Protoss.
Also, the MS Core, unlike the new units of other races' doesn't seem like a stylistic choice of any sort. It's just an all around good unit that Protoss would make every game regardless of what style they are going for. There's no reason to not make it asap, which can't be said, at least I think, for any of the other new units for all three races.
Just my opinion.
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I'm terran, and i tried this afternoon the change on Window mine and... it's totally imba.
With gaz first into factory / reactor, 4 mines in B1, 2 in B2, I burrowed mines which are low hp and nothing can stop them until minerals. It's freewin against Zerg & too powerful against Protoss.
You can look some games against Zerg here : http://fr.twitch.tv/yolteotl/b/333857324 (1h20, 1h30, 2h, 2h10 & 2h20). Just awful, even with a bad macro.
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On September 30 2012 00:58 bLo0d wrote:
To me, it seems MS Core is a necessary unit in TvZ, at least with all the new options Z has vs P . But, my one concern is TvP. Terran's new units, with mech not looking viable and bio being a solid playstyle vs P, are basically negligible in that match up. The MS Core becomes a sort of buff to any standard P play style vs P, while T is just the same vs P as in WoL. If TvP is balanced in WoL, I can't imagine the addition of the MS Core to the match up, as well as possible viability of the new Stargate units vs the limited viability mech units of Terran keeping the match up balanced.
Basically Protoss has new Stargate options vs Terran, and the bonus of a MS Core, while Terran would either be forced to go mech to even utilize it's new units, or just play the same style vs the improved Protoss.
Also, the MS Core, unlike the new units of other races' doesn't seem like a stylistic choice of any sort. It's just an all around good unit that Protoss would make every game regardless of what style they are going for. There's no reason to not make it asap, which can't be said, at least I think, for any of the other new units for all three races.
Just my opinion.
Well you can't say: Mech isn't an option vs Toss, but then say: Toss has now the Stargate options!
Opening Stargate will not let you survive, if stim and the first medivacs are ready.
Basically right now, nothing changes in TvP at all. I wouldn't be suprised if toss rather skip the MSC for faster Robotics.
Anyway: They said the beta is a long shot from being done, so we have to wait and see...
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On September 30 2012 01:11 testthewest wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 00:58 bLo0d wrote:
To me, it seems MS Core is a necessary unit in TvZ, at least with all the new options Z has vs P . But, my one concern is TvP. Terran's new units, with mech not looking viable and bio being a solid playstyle vs P, are basically negligible in that match up. The MS Core becomes a sort of buff to any standard P play style vs P, while T is just the same vs P as in WoL. If TvP is balanced in WoL, I can't imagine the addition of the MS Core to the match up, as well as possible viability of the new Stargate units vs the limited viability mech units of Terran keeping the match up balanced.
Basically Protoss has new Stargate options vs Terran, and the bonus of a MS Core, while Terran would either be forced to go mech to even utilize it's new units, or just play the same style vs the improved Protoss.
Also, the MS Core, unlike the new units of other races' doesn't seem like a stylistic choice of any sort. It's just an all around good unit that Protoss would make every game regardless of what style they are going for. There's no reason to not make it asap, which can't be said, at least I think, for any of the other new units for all three races.
Just my opinion.
Well you can't say: Mech isn't an option vs Toss, but then say: Toss has now the Stargate options! Opening Stargate will not let you survive, if stim and the first medivacs are ready. Basically right now, nothing changes in TvP at all. I wouldn't be suprised if toss rather skip the MSC for faster Robotics. Anyway: They said the beta is a long shot from being done, so we have to wait and see...
Well you can 4 Gate MSC against most Expand Builds Terran has which is very very hard to hold.
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On September 30 2012 01:11 testthewest wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 00:58 bLo0d wrote:
To me, it seems MS Core is a necessary unit in TvZ, at least with all the new options Z has vs P . But, my one concern is TvP. Terran's new units, with mech not looking viable and bio being a solid playstyle vs P, are basically negligible in that match up. The MS Core becomes a sort of buff to any standard P play style vs P, while T is just the same vs P as in WoL. If TvP is balanced in WoL, I can't imagine the addition of the MS Core to the match up, as well as possible viability of the new Stargate units vs the limited viability mech units of Terran keeping the match up balanced.
Basically Protoss has new Stargate options vs Terran, and the bonus of a MS Core, while Terran would either be forced to go mech to even utilize it's new units, or just play the same style vs the improved Protoss.
Also, the MS Core, unlike the new units of other races' doesn't seem like a stylistic choice of any sort. It's just an all around good unit that Protoss would make every game regardless of what style they are going for. There's no reason to not make it asap, which can't be said, at least I think, for any of the other new units for all three races.
Just my opinion.
Well you can't say: Mech isn't an option vs Toss, but then say: Toss has now the Stargate options! Opening Stargate will not let you survive, if stim and the first medivacs are ready. Basically right now, nothing changes in TvP at all. I wouldn't be suprised if toss rather skip the MSC for faster Robotics. Anyway: They said the beta is a long shot from being done, so we have to wait and see...
Haha, no you're right, I was thinking of that sort of contradiction before I posted. I only decided to post that because Mech is not something you can transition from. Once you open mech, you're gonna just go mech. And what I meant by stargate options was not necessarily only opening oracles, for example. I was also referring to the possible viability of Tempests towards late game. Also, Stargate is not a playstyle per se. If you open Stargate, you can, and most likely will and have to transition to something else. But it just exists as another option in the early game/possibly later in game. Mech, though, is an entire game playstyle, not just an opening.
But yeah, even ignoring mech and stargate options completely, the MS Core just by itself would change TvP by a lot I believe.
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Oracle change is just to encourage more use
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Well one really interesting thing about the new mothership core is that it fulfills the role of the early game void ray against zerg.
Before, in order to safely clear watch towers and creep tumors, you needed to get a Stargate and a Void Ray. That costed 400/300! Now protosses can just make a mothership core to do all that for only 100/100. Huge improvement and gives much more flexibility to protoss in the early game.
Now they just need to take out or change the Void Ray, which due to this patch, has lost its last remaining role in SC2.
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what happens when you use purify and the Nexus dies? does the MSC die too?
Edit. Nevermind. Found the answer.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 30 2012 01:22 s3rp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 01:11 testthewest wrote:On September 30 2012 00:58 bLo0d wrote:
To me, it seems MS Core is a necessary unit in TvZ, at least with all the new options Z has vs P . But, my one concern is TvP. Terran's new units, with mech not looking viable and bio being a solid playstyle vs P, are basically negligible in that match up. The MS Core becomes a sort of buff to any standard P play style vs P, while T is just the same vs P as in WoL. If TvP is balanced in WoL, I can't imagine the addition of the MS Core to the match up, as well as possible viability of the new Stargate units vs the limited viability mech units of Terran keeping the match up balanced.
Basically Protoss has new Stargate options vs Terran, and the bonus of a MS Core, while Terran would either be forced to go mech to even utilize it's new units, or just play the same style vs the improved Protoss.
Also, the MS Core, unlike the new units of other races' doesn't seem like a stylistic choice of any sort. It's just an all around good unit that Protoss would make every game regardless of what style they are going for. There's no reason to not make it asap, which can't be said, at least I think, for any of the other new units for all three races.
Just my opinion.
Well you can't say: Mech isn't an option vs Toss, but then say: Toss has now the Stargate options! Opening Stargate will not let you survive, if stim and the first medivacs are ready. Basically right now, nothing changes in TvP at all. I wouldn't be suprised if toss rather skip the MSC for faster Robotics. Anyway: They said the beta is a long shot from being done, so we have to wait and see... Well you can 4 Gate MSC against most Expand Builds Terran has which is very very hard to hold.
You can 3 rax marine/scv all-in against most Expand Builds Protoss has which is very very hard to hold. What's your point?
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Wow! Watch WhiteRa using the new mothership core! He's not even close to using it optimally yet, but you can see how it will completely change the openings available to protoss. Vs Zerg, you can go gateway first, get the mothership core, go pressure with your first few units and the core, putting up your expo behind it.
Then you can theoretically retreat back and use your core to energize a sentry to hold off an all-in, or if you nexus is finished you can use purify.
Then you have a quick timing attack where you bring your core along and use it to gain highground vision for blink, recalling if needed. Allows for protoss to be a lot more active in the early game, which makes the matchup more dynamic.
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On September 30 2012 01:50 Fig wrote:
Wow! Watch WhiteRa using the new mothership core! He's not even close to using it optimally yet, but you can see how it will completely change the openings available to protoss. Vs Zerg, you can go gateway first, get the mothership core, go pressure with your first few units and the core, putting up your expo behind it.
Then you can theoretically retreat back and use your core to energize a sentry to hold off an all-in, or if you nexus is finished you can use purify.
Then you have a quick timing attack where you bring your core along and use it to gain highground vision for blink, recalling if needed. Allows for protoss to be a lot more active in the early game, which makes the matchup more dynamic.
Link? Nvm found it.
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On September 30 2012 00:34 Garmer wrote:
so what is the change to widow mines? because isn't related to burrow...
I think, it's the time required to burrow. At least they seemed to take 2 seconds to burrow, so I guess it was that.
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I think the MSC high ground warp in with early gateway pressure is too powerful. It completely negates CC first and maybe even rax expand. There's basically no reason to get an early bunker anymore other than to defend against the first zealot/stalker. Also if you don't use the core offensively you should be safe from any Terran early pressure. I'm experimenting with a Reaper expand to avoid the 4gate MSC, but I don't feel the Reaper enables enough threat to contain the early game Protoss.
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EPT
