EPTHotS Balance Update #4 [9/28/12] - Page 17
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COLT217
Germany70 Posts
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Harbinger631
United States376 Posts
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JSRazor
United States17 Posts
On September 29 2012 14:51 playa wrote: The cost is 100/100 for the mothership core? If it's more costly than a stalker, and you're getting it for defensive purposes, how does it help if you're not going to end up with more dps in any early attacks? As for recall, I just hope the people losing/complaining about its offensive abilities weren't toss players. I agree in that I don't want it to be an offensive weapon, but to have this recall change is disheartening. Always needing to have your army under a "super unit" is so lame. I agree that the dmg potential, especially with a 4gate against zerg is way higher now. Spine crawlers aren't gonna stopit. It has a 250total hitpoints(including it's shield) so it has a decent surviveability. In early game pressure, since, it is flying, it is valuable against lings/roaches/ marauders, and zealots. The abilities also justify the cost. It'll stop zealots from doing to much dmg to your mineral line when you use purify. energize can help you force field ramps and wall ins. I do agree that the Mcore being a standard part of your army seems a little silly. I think that maybe, by making it 50-50 to produce and then 50-50 to give it a speed upgrade could increase the early game defensive capabilities while giving it more mid game offensive abilities. This would likely time out so that you'll have your 1.875 speed Mcore about the 7:30minute mark or later, however, you'll have the mcore itself out around the current time. This upgrade could go onto the cyber core to ensure it wont be out untill warp gate is finished. That may reduce the early game harrass options. | ||
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JSRazor
United States17 Posts
On September 29 2012 16:58 Big J wrote: I don't like the new recall, neither do I like the autoattack on the core. I feel like, if it can constantly attack, it should require a stargate - both out of balance and design reasons. And for the recall... it was fun before, now it's like this one unit that you want to focus fast, then he can't recall - so the moment you have enough anti air, he can't use recall for harass anymore. I mean, how do you use recall against a Terran now? You don't! Marines will kill the core, long before you can use it properly. Using recall against terran now is kinda like using your gaurdian shields. You need to keep the MCore towards the back of your army. In a late game scenario, you can either A: use a mothership recall, or B: Keep the core out of the engagement and fall back a small distance to your mcore to recall. You can't bring it into your army once vikings are out, although it does make for a nice meat shield if your opponent targets it down instead of your colossus. Overall, it has more offensive utility now against terran than it did before. Terran used to push my front and target it down so fast because i couldn't move it and the attack rate of purify didn't kill the marines fast enough. Now you can at least keep alive as long as you have other units with it. For harrassment, it's more of a support unit now, making the zealot drops way strong since you can recall your zealots(and warp prism if you used it to warp in/drop) while adding some dmg to the fight. It's now a little more risky since you risk the Mcore. It was a little imba when you could do a doom drop with 2-3 warp prisms and simply recall it without risking the core at all. You can still force your opponent to defend since you can still use recall with it. | ||
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JSRazor
United States17 Posts
On September 29 2012 18:00 Rabiator wrote: It is the flying aspect of the unit combined with the fact that it has an attack (which it should, since the mothership has an attack). Personally I think it is a terrible idea to give such an early flying AND casting unit the super powerful spells it has. You cant reduce the effect of recall (well you could reduce the affected radius, but in the very beginning there are only very few units to recall, so it doesnt balance the spell) or make it less powerful, so the only option is removing it. The whole "early flying unit vs Zerg" aspect is a big problem, because it is an untouchable base defender and anything that is invulnerable is very very bad. ---- The whole HotS unit design comes across at being worthy of a DLC download, but not an expansion and certainly not a full price expansion. It is all pretty screwed up and mostly terrible in its design. I agree that the HotS design for multiplayer is a little like DLC; it's also an overhaul on the graphics, physics (look at blood splatter and how moving units die, it's pretty sick), campaign, editor, and the Design of Battle.net. It's true that they could simply patch all of these things in, however, given the pace of work and resources available to them, it would be more economic for blizzard to simply release this as an expansion. By no means should it be more than 40$. That price is even pushing it a little. The cool thing is that the earnings from these sales will likely support some awesome content in the future. The most disappointing thing from blizzard in recent times that i can recall is the lack of pvp for Diablo 3, several months after release. Still unhappy about that. | ||
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JSRazor
United States17 Posts
On September 30 2012 01:11 testthewest wrote: Well you can't say: Mech isn't an option vs Toss, but then say: Toss has now the Stargate options! Opening Stargate will not let you survive, if stim and the first medivacs are ready. Basically right now, nothing changes in TvP at all. I wouldn't be suprised if toss rather skip the MSC for faster Robotics. Anyway: They said the beta is a long shot from being done, so we have to wait and see... After some good ladder play in HotS, I can say that opening stargate is viable. The mobility of stargate is really nice. Defending against the super early pushes isn't hard since phoenix help kill marines really well in small numbers. You can harass terran pretty will with that mobility. I routinely hit the main and expo at the same time. One with an oracle and one with phoenix. It delays terrans timings or the number of units they use. The big problem with the stargate, is that it's still not useful in battles past the early game against terran. Stargate holds the 1-1-1 a little better now, thanks to the oracles ability to detect with a cheep spell. It's definitely a harassment based opener though. The phoenix are fairly useful once your opponent gets some vikings, or if they try to drop against you. I've shut down or deterred a bunch of drops with the phoenix. I wouldn't build more than 5 though. 3 is a pretty good number, and 5 helps alot against medivacs and sometimes the vikings, but overall, don't count on it in the late game. Once you pass the 10-12minute mark, you wont want any phoenix, void rays, tempest or carriers. Oracle is still nice to have. Opening stargate, you can still have a colossus out by the time terran pushes out with stim. | ||
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Akinokaze
Australia326 Posts
On September 30 2012 02:19 JSRazor wrote: I agree that the dmg potential, especially with a 4gate against zerg is way higher now. Spine crawlers aren't gonna stopit. It has a 250total hitpoints(including it's shield) so it has a decent surviveability. In early game pressure, since, it is flying, it is valuable against lings/roaches/ marauders, and zealots. The abilities also justify the cost. It'll stop zealots from doing to much dmg to your mineral line when you use purify. energize can help you force field ramps and wall ins. I do agree that the Mcore being a standard part of your army seems a little silly. I think that maybe, by making it 50-50 to produce and then 50-50 to give it a speed upgrade could increase the early game defensive capabilities while giving it more mid game offensive abilities. This would likely time out so that you'll have your 1.875 speed Mcore about the 7:30minute mark or later, however, you'll have the mcore itself out around the current time. This upgrade could go onto the cyber core to ensure it wont be out untill warp gate is finished. That may reduce the early game harrass options. This sounds like a great idea that gives us the best of both worlds. I hope this idea gets to Blizzard. | ||
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jadeo
Sweden18 Posts
so they can keep their food cost for a little more "freedom". (walk,transform... more mech less baneling) | ||
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
Please Blizzard prove me wrong.  | ||
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TheLunatic
309 Posts
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NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On September 30 2012 04:21 GinDo wrote: HOTs keeps making little to no progress. The whole expansion seems like DLC that's probably only worth $20-25. I've seen F2P games make more significant additions in a patch, then Blizzard does in an Expansion. Please Blizzard prove me wrong. What do you expect? It isn't a whole new game, it's a revamped game an expansion with new units, new maps, and new features. | ||
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Wookyman
Denmark4 Posts
On September 30 2012 04:21 GinDo wrote: HOTs keeps making little to no progress. The whole expansion seems like DLC that's probably only worth $20-25. I've seen F2P games make more significant additions in a patch, then Blizzard does in an Expansion. Please Blizzard prove me wrong. Well WoL meta game is going pretty nicely so I like the idea of not totally revamping the game to WoL beta days with one-base rushes. Also, we've only seen few months of Beta - how much different gameplay can you demand over such a short period of time? I have no doubt the new units will give inspiring and completely different strategies in time.. in time. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On September 30 2012 05:12 Wookyman wrote: Well WoL meta game is going pretty nicely so I like the idea of not totally revamping the game to WoL beta days with one-base rushes. Also, we've only seen few months of Beta - how much different gameplay can you demand over such a short period of time? I have no doubt the new units will give inspiring and completely different strategies in time.. in time. Hasn't even been a month (think it started like september 3rd didn't it?) | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On September 30 2012 05:11 NovemberstOrm wrote: What do you expect? It isn't a whole new game, it's a revamped game an expansion with new units, new maps, and new features. Of course they added some toys. But not enough to justify $40. Like my post said, "HOTS looks like a DLC pack and not an Expansion". | ||
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NovemberstOrm
Canada16217 Posts
On September 30 2012 05:27 GinDo wrote: Of course they added some toys. But not enough to justify $40. Like my post said, "HOTS looks like a DLC pack and not an Expansion". I don't see what else they could add but yeah. In my opinion Mothership core seems a tad too fast, I haven't played with it too much though, will see how it goes ^^ | ||
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
On September 30 2012 04:21 GinDo wrote: HOTs keeps making little to no progress. The whole expansion seems like DLC that's probably only worth $20-25. I've seen F2P games make more significant additions in a patch, then Blizzard does in an Expansion. Please Blizzard prove me wrong. Wait do you forget that HOTS also add a new campaign with 20+ missions? Saying the expansion is only like a DLC is kinda exaggerate. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On September 30 2012 05:40 Veldril wrote: Wait do you forget that HOTS also add a new campaign with 20+ missions? Saying the expansion is only like a DLC is kinda exaggerate. many dont give a damn about the story and sp. funny is that at this point im more excited for the sp then the mp. | ||
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Nightsz
Canada398 Posts
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Quotidian
Norway1937 Posts
On September 30 2012 02:01 ShiroUtsuRi wrote: Wow! So finally protoss is as hard and onesided to play as before. Thank you blizzard for nerving recall so bad, there will no longer be a good use for it exept for waiting until real mothership. Boring stuff :-( I was watching.. I think it was Typereal stream. He was using recall all game long, so I think it's safe to say you're wrong. Also, because of the movespeed buff, he had the MS core floating being some zerg's expo and two Oracles flying around, constantly getting topped off with energy from the Core and spamming entomb. Looked super annoying to play against. | ||
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