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Purify Is Going Backwards - Page 4

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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FeyFey
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany10114 Posts
September 21 2012 10:22 GMT
#61
They could increase the movement speed when in Purify, that would aid in defense, or re-add the scroll of townportal. They could also make it dependent on a nexus nearby to use its skills, to prevent the siege of your natural by this unit on some maps.
I would love it if it would be using Nexus energy for its skills.
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 14:00:28
September 21 2012 14:00 GMT
#62
On September 21 2012 12:40 ectonym wrote:
here's hoping for another patch within a week. i think OPs idea is good, and better stated here than i've heard elsewhere. dayvie, dustin, are you out there? HOTS is almost good, zerg is fine. t might be fine. fix the momma core and i think we're ready for release :p


are you high? The game is terrible and boring right now. They need to get their act together or a lot of people will not be buying the game.
Halozination
Profile Joined January 2012
69 Posts
September 21 2012 14:02 GMT
#63
On September 21 2012 19:22 FeyFey wrote:
They could increase the movement speed when in Purify

I would like to see that.
stard1n
Profile Joined September 2012
50 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 14:27:05
September 21 2012 14:26 GMT
#64

I agree with this, i think purify is heading in the wrong direction.

This is what i posted in the private HoTS beta forums before the latest two patches about my ideas on the mothership core.

I feel the mothership core can be tweaked into something more integral to our race and end up becoming kinda like what the queen is to zerg. It should be the first thing every protoss player wants to make when gets his cyber up.

1. Hotkey priority selection

The mofo core spell is kinda a one off thing. You use either purify once or energize once and then you're done with it for the next 5 minutes. Often times when selecting units in your base during a defense, the mofo core is usually parked at the entrance and gets caught in the selection and ends up delaying forcefields or makes the user have to TAB through his other spell casters to get to it.

Also, say I wanna do an attack but want to have the mofo core in my hotkey selection so i can recall my army should things go bad. I don't want it in another hotkey, nor do I want to have to press TAB first before i cast FFs every single time when selecting my main army group.

Basically I feel it should be moved to the last in terms of priority in spell casting units because of the relative infrequent usage of the spells.

2. Movement speed within base

The mofo core is incredibly slow. That is good. When its being "offensive". However, when used as a defense, good players know never to engage, they either wait out the purify charge or they "kite" by walking 1 square out of its range each time and avoid it completely. If its supposed to be a defensive unit at times, it needs to be able to defend more competently! Perhaps if its within a pylon radius it is "powered" by pylons and moves at a slightly faster speed, maybe that of the tempest? The concept would be similar to queens moving faster on creep and being able to provide that added defenders advantage. I don't see why we can't have this for protoss as well.

It would also introduce a few more dynamics in the game like the importance of pylon placement or chaining pylons in a row. This way it becomes unit people pay more attention to that could move "quicker" between your three bases for defending rather that it just staying in one position during the whole assault with people not bothering to move it cause it will never get there in time. Its "off-pylon" speed is good and should remain the same as it is now.

3. Mothership morphing speed

This is a tricky one. I do not like that you cannot chorno the build time and as a result the loss of it is much more severe compared to WoL. If you mofo ship dies, gl for the next 5 mins. And at the same time starting with full energy makes it almost OP so perhaps a better balance between the energy and morphing time could be reached.

Maybe during the transition into the mofo ship, a tripod extends itself out of its !@# and plants itself to the ground, effectively making it a building during the transition. There is also proper animation so it looks more realistic with it slowly increasing in size during the morph, and will give opponents an idea when the mofo ship is about to pop out based on the animation. Right now its like whoa where did that come from! Surprise! It was in my pocket all along! And this also means since its a building during that period it gets added armor and that way it can be chronoed too, making logical sense.


You do realize mofo = mother fucker? maybe you shouldn't call it the mother fucker core and then your advice would be heard?

Just my 2 cents.
stard1n
Profile Joined September 2012
50 Posts
September 21 2012 14:30 GMT
#65

I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.


I think this idea is brilliant.
LOLItsRyann
Profile Joined April 2011
England551 Posts
September 21 2012 14:39 GMT
#66
On September 21 2012 23:30 stard1n wrote:
Show nested quote +

I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.


I think this idea is brilliant.


I don't understand this, are you implying Protoss' go aggressive without placing pylons down almost next to the enemy base? Because proxy pylons would make the M Core exactly the same.
EG<3
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
September 21 2012 15:28 GMT
#67
On September 21 2012 23:39 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 23:30 stard1n wrote:

I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.


I think this idea is brilliant.


I don't understand this, are you implying Protoss' go aggressive without placing pylons down almost next to the enemy base? Because proxy pylons would make the M Core exactly the same.

Yeah, the community says on one hand: "Blizzard don't tell us how to play the game!" and at the same time it's "make sure we can't use the MsC aggressively!". Which then leads to all sorts of complicated ideas to limit it.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
SarcasmMonster
Profile Joined October 2011
3136 Posts
September 21 2012 15:36 GMT
#68
On September 22 2012 00:28 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 23:39 LOLItsRyann wrote:
On September 21 2012 23:30 stard1n wrote:

I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.


I think this idea is brilliant.


I don't understand this, are you implying Protoss' go aggressive without placing pylons down almost next to the enemy base? Because proxy pylons would make the M Core exactly the same.

Yeah, the community says on one hand: "Blizzard don't tell us how to play the game!" and at the same time it's "make sure we can't use the MsC aggressively!". Which then leads to all sorts of complicated ideas to limit it.


We like to keep the developers on their toes.
MMA: The true King of Wings
tehemperorer
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2183 Posts
September 21 2012 15:38 GMT
#69
What if the msc's purify was basically the shredder's ability? AoE damage field but disabled when friendlies enter the field, has to be deployed to work (i.e., msc stationary to "channel")
Knowing is half the battle... the other half is lasers.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 15:39:38
September 21 2012 15:39 GMT
#70
On September 21 2012 23:39 LOLItsRyann wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 23:30 stard1n wrote:

I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.


I think this idea is brilliant.


I don't understand this, are you implying Protoss' go aggressive without placing pylons down almost next to the enemy base? Because proxy pylons would make the M Core exactly the same.


That's not true. Pylons provide a power field at 6 range, and if the MsC has 7 range, you can only use the MsC to attack targets within 13 range of a pylon. The defender can keep pulling his forces out of range as you slowly crawl your pylon field forward. This buys him time while forcing you to spend minerals on extra pylons. Also, pylons don't provide power uphill in HoTS, so if the defender can keep pylons off of his high-ground, the MsC will be kept at bay.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16056 Posts
September 21 2012 15:59 GMT
#71
Purify worked great when the Mothership Core was attached to a Nexus.

I really don't understand why they felt they NEEDED to allow it to move. It made a lot more sense from a design standpoint as a structure than a unit.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 16:13:15
September 21 2012 16:12 GMT
#72
On September 22 2012 00:28 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 23:39 LOLItsRyann wrote:
On September 21 2012 23:30 stard1n wrote:

I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.


I think this idea is brilliant.


I don't understand this, are you implying Protoss' go aggressive without placing pylons down almost next to the enemy base? Because proxy pylons would make the M Core exactly the same.

Yeah, the community says on one hand: "Blizzard don't tell us how to play the game!" and at the same time it's "make sure we can't use the MsC aggressively!". Which then leads to all sorts of complicated ideas to limit it.


I want to be able to expand in PvP, but I don't want to be able to auto-win PvZ and PvT with an 8:30 4-gate when my MsC makes it across the map with its 10 range and bajillion DPS. Is that such an unreasonable request?
Cabinet Sanchez
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia1097 Posts
September 21 2012 16:14 GMT
#73
On September 21 2012 23:30 stard1n wrote:
Show nested quote +

I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.


I think this idea is brilliant.


I think I agree.
plagiarisedwords
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom138 Posts
September 21 2012 17:14 GMT
#74
Another way to fix purify is to have it be cast onto a friendly structure after which the structure gains the ability to attack. The duration of the spell can be very long but it's damage potential is capped because it requires energy to function and it has only a limited amount of energy which is expended whenever the structure attacks (basically like the PDD but doing damage instead of soaking it up).

This combines long duration with high burst damage when required.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
September 21 2012 17:23 GMT
#75
On September 21 2012 23:00 wcr.4fun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 12:40 ectonym wrote:
here's hoping for another patch within a week. i think OPs idea is good, and better stated here than i've heard elsewhere. dayvie, dustin, are you out there? HOTS is almost good, zerg is fine. t might be fine. fix the momma core and i think we're ready for release :p


are you high? The game is terrible and boring right now. They need to get their act together or a lot of people will not be buying the game.

The game is decent, and definitely in better spot that WoL is right now. It still changes every week, and we still didn't see any normal strategies from the pros since they won't make strategies when the game is changing so much.

And with the last 2 patch, I've seen about ~5 Terran players that constantly whines how they won't spend 40 or 60$ on expansion because they will play the same Terran they played in WoL(because they already perfectly understand what will be with the metagame 1 year from today). Even if Beta is about to finish, we would see balance changes in the later patches of HOTS, and Beta just started, it will be out for next 4+ months, they are trying a tons of things, like I said, it will get changed a lot, if they don't like it(nor the community and pros), they will change it, the same way they removed the Warhound, buffed Mines and Battle Hellions and brought back the Carriers. And I've seen a lot more players satisfied with the current Hots than those that aren't.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
wcr.4fun
Profile Joined April 2012
Belgium686 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-21 17:31:24
September 21 2012 17:29 GMT
#76
On September 22 2012 02:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 23:00 wcr.4fun wrote:
On September 21 2012 12:40 ectonym wrote:
here's hoping for another patch within a week. i think OPs idea is good, and better stated here than i've heard elsewhere. dayvie, dustin, are you out there? HOTS is almost good, zerg is fine. t might be fine. fix the momma core and i think we're ready for release :p


are you high? The game is terrible and boring right now. They need to get their act together or a lot of people will not be buying the game.

The game is decent, and definitely in better spot that WoL is right now. It still changes every week, and we still didn't see any normal strategies from the pros since they won't make strategies when the game is changing so much.

And with the last 2 patch, I've seen about ~5 Terran players that constantly whines how they won't spend 40 or 60$ on expansion because they will play the same Terran they played in WoL(because they already perfectly understand what will be with the metagame 1 year from today). Even if Beta is about to finish, we would see balance changes in the later patches of HOTS, and Beta just started, it will be out for next 4+ months, they are trying a tons of things, like I said, it will get changed a lot, if they don't like it(nor the community and pros), they will change it, the same way they removed the Warhound, buffed Mines and Battle Hellions and brought back the Carriers. And I've seen a lot more players satisfied with the current Hots than those that aren't.


I'm not saying I have lost all confidence but saying the game is ready to be released is a joke (especially with the recent change of battle hellion to biological). That's why I quoted the guy, I'm under the impression myself blizzard has a 'long' beta planned and I'm glad for that. I'm hoping to get a shot at it myself, but no luck so far. I'm sure it'll be more fun to play than to watch and zerg got a great addition the viper. Now onto hoping thtat the nydus aren't solely for single player and that they'll consider changing some fundamental things of the game. If it ends up being infestor broodlord, collussus ever game again, I won't be buying it.
kcdc
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2311 Posts
September 21 2012 17:33 GMT
#77
On September 22 2012 02:23 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2012 23:00 wcr.4fun wrote:
On September 21 2012 12:40 ectonym wrote:
here's hoping for another patch within a week. i think OPs idea is good, and better stated here than i've heard elsewhere. dayvie, dustin, are you out there? HOTS is almost good, zerg is fine. t might be fine. fix the momma core and i think we're ready for release :p


are you high? The game is terrible and boring right now. They need to get their act together or a lot of people will not be buying the game.

The game is decent, and definitely in better spot that WoL is right now. It still changes every week, and we still didn't see any normal strategies from the pros since they won't make strategies when the game is changing so much.

And with the last 2 patch, I've seen about ~5 Terran players that constantly whines how they won't spend 40 or 60$ on expansion because they will play the same Terran they played in WoL(because they already perfectly understand what will be with the metagame 1 year from today). Even if Beta is about to finish, we would see balance changes in the later patches of HOTS, and Beta just started, it will be out for next 4+ months, they are trying a tons of things, like I said, it will get changed a lot, if they don't like it(nor the community and pros), they will change it, the same way they removed the Warhound, buffed Mines and Battle Hellions and brought back the Carriers. And I've seen a lot more players satisfied with the current Hots than those that aren't.


I agree that HoTS is getting into a better spot. Zerg play is much improved with lots more build options. Protoss play is improved with recall offering offensive flexibility and the tempest and oracle providing new options to combat infestor+broodlord. What Terran really needs is a new late-game option that feels fun, strong, difficult to play, and not impossible to beat. WoL Terran struggles just as much against infestor-broodlord as WoL Protoss does. The difference is that Terran can get a response out more easily (vikings vs carriers and mothership), but the response is inadequate because vikings get rocked so hard by fungal. Carriers and mothership are super-hard to get, but at least once Protoss has them, they're going to hold their own as long as Protoss controls and positions well. If the game goes late enough, there's really nothing Terran can do.
baikor
Profile Joined April 2008
Bulgaria28 Posts
September 21 2012 17:43 GMT
#78
Reduce damage and make pause/resume possible. During pause no energy regeneration.
Blacklizard
Profile Joined May 2007
United States1194 Posts
September 21 2012 19:31 GMT
#79
The MSC could be responsible for big metagame shifts. Maybe super greedy expands won't be able to be so greedy, and that may be fine. If that happens, it could make up for Protoss's poor early game scouting, which is reliant on a ton of inferrances.

Personally I really love the Mothership Core. It gives Protoss everything it needed early game. Right now, the MSC definitely helps in defense. It also gives options for poking/recall. It gives the ability to see and/or hit incoming 10 minute bio drops at one more location. And it gives options for harassment. I think of it as a really slow flying reaper... pretty decent at killing a handful of marines, lings, or workers but without support it goes down fast.

Sure, it is worrying that 4 gates would be stronger against Terran. But honestly, 4 gates were pretty God awful against Terran in the past. 2 repaired bunkers were just about enough? Maybe now it will require 4 bunkers because 2 will go down. Still very defendable if Terran doesn't play super greedy.

A late 4 gate against Zerg seems pretty weak to me. I'd be more worried about the 2 base 8 gate timing + MSC. Except that swarmhosts counter practically any number of gateway units, so it doesn't appear to be a problem there either.

Really, I think the mothership core is doing fine. The lastest buff hasn't been tested a ton, but it's probably close to being fine. I think the good far outweighs the bad. More options early game make for more interesting games. Offensively and defensively.
ArcticRaven
Profile Joined August 2011
France1406 Posts
September 21 2012 20:02 GMT
#80
On September 22 2012 00:59 Vindicare605 wrote:
Purify worked great when the Mothership Core was attached to a Nexus.

I really don't understand why they felt they NEEDED to allow it to move. It made a lot more sense from a design standpoint as a structure than a unit.


Why the hell did they change it ? It's now ugly, easily abusable and not as strategic. I loved the coice yhou had in your using your energy to hop on to another nexus or use one of the spells, as well as the possibility it gave to hold bases from the fourth onward. It had so much potential as an immobile unit.
[Govie] Wierd shit, on a 6 game AP winning streak with KOTL in the trench. I searched gandalf quotes and spammed them all game long, trenchwarfare247, whateva it takes!
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