Purify Is Going Backwards - Page 2

On September 21 2012 11:13 SuperYo1000 wrote:



.....thats called force field we already have that :D

On September 21 2012 11:15 Buchan wrote:
You can't seriously believe I was being serious...

On September 21 2012 11:16 SuperYo1000 wrote:



you see that smile face after what I said? chill dude

On September 21 2012 11:19 Buchan wrote:
Alright so we've both successfully internet sarcasm trolled eachother. It's now even.

On September 21 2012 11:14 Jerubaal wrote:
Why don't they give it a 'Purifier mode' with a minimum energy cost that drains energy (like cloak) so that ducking in and forcing the Purifier click isn't as effective?

On September 21 2012 11:11 Buchan wrote:
I just don't think Purify is ever going to work as intended. Because if you buff it too much it will shut down all aggressive strategies early game. It will always just be a buying time spell, people will just bait out purify and then wait or find other means of entry into the enemy base. It will always just be a time buying spell which does help Protoss early game but it's just not a fun to use or watch game mechanic.

Which is why I think they should just scrap purify and start coming up with a new defensive ability. Give the mothership core the ability to create destructible rocks in a specific area. That way it could block off ramps and chokes giving Protoss more time to build an army behind. Then change the name of the Mothership Core to Dustin Browder and bam, fixed.

On September 21 2012 09:29 aLt)nirvana wrote:

2. Movement speed within base

The mofo core is incredibly slow. That is good. When its being "offensive". However, when used as a defense, good players know never to engage, they either wait out the purify charge or they "kite" by walking 1 square out of its range each time and avoid it completely. If its supposed to be a defensive unit at times, it needs to be able to defend more competently! Perhaps if its within a pylon radius it is "powered" by pylons and moves at a slightly faster speed, maybe that of the tempest? The concept would be similar to queens moving faster on creep and being able to provide that added defenders advantage. I don't see why we can't have this for protoss as well.

It would also introduce a few more dynamics in the game like the importance of pylon placement or chaining pylons in a row. This way it becomes unit people pay more attention to that could move "quicker" between your three bases for defending rather that it just staying in one position during the whole assault with people not bothering to move it cause it will never get there in time. Its "off-pylon" speed is good and should remain the same as it is now.

On September 21 2012 09:06 kcdc wrote:
Dayvie, Purify isn't working. It's good for attacking and bad at defense, which is the exact opposite of what it should be. I know you're gonna fix it. I've read your blogs, listened to your interviews, we've even played on ladder a few times in WoL. I know you've got this. But the last two balance changes have me a little nervous since they're going precisely backwards.

Your goal is for purify to be strong for defense, but not too strong for offense. When the beta began, you found that purify was weak for for defense because the attacker could just duck out of range and wait for purify to expire. Meanwhile, it was actually pretty decent for offense because bases don't run away.

So you started by buffing the range from 7 to 10, hoping that purify would be better for defense since it would get more shots off while the attacker pulled back. But this is supposed to be a PvP fix, and an extra shot or two on a retreating stalker isn't that big of a deal. Meanwhile, buffing the range made the core WAY better at attacking. At 10 range, it can pick off spines, queens and bunkers while mitigating return fire.

And now you've buffed its burst damage while reducing the defensive availability of the effect (shorter duration, higher energy cost). I'm guessing that this too was to make purify kill more units before they retreat. But defensively, that extra retreat damage comes at the cost of making purify less available and allowing the attacker to return sooner. And it naturally makes the core even stronger for attacks where you can plan for that huge DPS to be there right when you need it.

In Starcraft, the attacker chooses WHEN the battle happens. That means the attacker wants to be powerful in a short burst, while the defender wants to be equally ready at all times to prevent the attacker from forcing the fight at a moment of weakness. At 100 energy for purify, the mothership core has exactly zero defensive utility for the first 89 seconds after it spawns. That's a gigantic window where the defender would absolutely be better off if they hadn't built the core. And after that 25 second purify cast, there's another 153 second window where the core is again completely and utterly useless.

Does 89 seconds of weakness, 25 seconds of face-smashing awesomeness, and 153 seconds of weakness sound like a good defense? No, it sounds awful--the attacker just fights during one of the huge windows of weakness.

But it's AWESOME for an attack where you get to force the fight to happen during those 25 seconds.

What you need to do to make purify good for defense is make it so that it's always available to the defender. In order to discourage offensive use, you need to make it not too powerful in short bursts which an attacker will always manipulate to line up with the engagement. Simply put, reduce or remove the energy requirement, and nerf the attack itself.

And while you're at it, if you really don't want the mothership core to be used offensively, take the range back down to 7 and make purify only enabled when the mothership core is positioned within a power field. That way, its attack can be plenty powerful for defense, but super weak for offense since the attacker would have to slow push pylons into the enemy's base in order to make a mothership core rush deal any lasting damage.

Please fix this. Don't keep buffing its ability to pick off a retreating unit at 10 range--that just makes it insanely strong for an attack. Defense needs to be reliable and available. Offense needs to be powerful in short bursts. This critical concept needs to be reflected in purify's design.

PS: I'd appreciate it if someone with beta access could re-post this in the HOTS beta forums so that it has a snowball's chance in hell to actually be seen.

On September 21 2012 11:29 cozzE wrote:
I can't believe they've gone to such an extent to hide the BW-ness of their units. Like seriously, a biological battle hellion? What were they thinking? The exact same unit was made 12 years ago and it was called a firebat.

On September 21 2012 12:50 avilo wrote:
The thing is with longer duration it makes greedy protoss FEs way too good. Which is probably why they're changing it to have a shorter duration.

On September 21 2012 13:07 kcdc wrote:


The goal is for it to make expanding more stable in PvP, and to do that, you have to buff Protoss frontal defense enough to make TvP rushes irrelevant. On the flip side, Terran rushes are almost irrelevant in WoL, and the mothership core is slow, so Terran drop and harass openings will still be strong.

On September 21 2012 13:13 avilo wrote:


They don't want something that lets you just expo for free in any match-up. Terran rushes being almost irrelevant would be exactly one of the points -_-