Purify Is Going Backwards - Page 3

And while you're at it, if you really don't want the mothership core to be used offensively, take the range back down to 7 and make purify only enabled when the mothership core is positioned within a power field. That way, its attack can be plenty powerful for defense, but super weak for offense since the attacker would have to slow push pylons into the enemy's base in order to make a mothership core rush deal any lasting damage.

On September 21 2012 09:06 kcdc wrote:
Dayvie, Purify isn't working. It's good for attacking and bad at defense, which is the exact opposite of what it should be. I know you're gonna fix it. I've read your blogs, listened to your interviews, we've even played on ladder a few times in WoL. I know you've got this. But the last two balance changes have me a little nervous since they're going precisely backwards.

Your goal is for purify to be strong for defense, but not too strong for offense. When the beta began, you found that purify was weak for for defense because the attacker could just duck out of range and wait for purify to expire. Meanwhile, it was actually pretty decent for offense because bases don't run away.

So you started by buffing the range from 7 to 10, hoping that purify would be better for defense since it would get more shots off while the attacker pulled back. But this is supposed to be a PvP fix, and an extra shot or two on a retreating stalker isn't that big of a deal. Meanwhile, buffing the range made the core WAY better at attacking. At 10 range, it can pick off spines, queens and bunkers while mitigating return fire.

And now you've buffed its burst damage while reducing the defensive availability of the effect (shorter duration, higher energy cost). I'm guessing that this too was to make purify kill more units before they retreat. But defensively, that extra retreat damage comes at the cost of making purify less available and allowing the attacker to return sooner. And it naturally makes the core even stronger for attacks where you can plan for that huge DPS to be there right when you need it.

In Starcraft, the attacker chooses WHEN the battle happens. That means the attacker wants to be powerful in a short burst, while the defender wants to be equally ready at all times to prevent the attacker from forcing the fight at a moment of weakness. At 100 energy for purify, the mothership core has exactly zero defensive utility for the first 89 seconds after it spawns. That's a gigantic window where the defender would absolutely be better off if they hadn't built the core. And after that 25 second purify cast, there's another 153 second window where the core is again completely and utterly useless.

Does 89 seconds of weakness, 25 seconds of face-smashing awesomeness, and 153 seconds of weakness sound like a good defense? No, it sounds awful--the attacker just fights during one of the huge windows of weakness.

But it's AWESOME for an attack where you get to force the fight to happen during those 25 seconds.

What you need to do to make purify good for defense is make it so that it's always available to the defender. In order to discourage offensive use, you need to make it not too powerful in short bursts which an attacker will always manipulate to line up with the engagement. Simply put, reduce or remove the energy requirement, and nerf the attack itself.

And while you're at it, if you really don't want the mothership core to be used offensively, take the range back down to 7 and make purify only enabled when the mothership core is positioned within a power field. That way, its attack can be plenty powerful for defense, but super weak for offense since the attacker would have to slow push pylons into the enemy's base in order to make a mothership core rush deal any lasting damage.

Please fix this. Don't keep buffing its ability to pick off a retreating unit at 10 range--that just makes it insanely strong for an attack. Defense needs to be reliable and available. Offense needs to be powerful in short bursts. This critical concept needs to be reflected in purify's design.

PS: I'd appreciate it if someone with beta access could re-post this in the HOTS beta forums so that it has a snowball's chance in hell to actually be seen.

On September 21 2012 13:49 Crawdad wrote:
This wouldn't be a problem if it were still attached to the Nexus...

But, if you're trying to defend, wouldn't it be more productive to Energize a Sentry?

On September 21 2012 09:06 kcdc wrote:
And while you're at it, if you really don't want the mothership core to be used offensively, take the range back down to 7 and make purify only enabled when the mothership core is positioned within a power field. That way, its attack can be plenty powerful for defense, but super weak for offense since the attacker would have to slow push pylons into the enemy's base in order to make a mothership core rush deal any lasting damage.

On September 21 2012 15:49 DeathPengu wrote:


Power field might not be the best solution. Since you can just make a proxy pylon. In fact Protoss always need a proxy pylon while pushing.

On September 21 2012 16:26 Sirion wrote:
What I would like is reducing the MSC speed even further, but make Purify give a significant speed boost.

On September 21 2012 17:27 Stow.Wif wrote:



I like this idea. This can even be combined with the toggle idea.

On September 21 2012 10:08 aLt)nirvana wrote:
hi kcdc, I have done so.

Do note that Blizzard really does listen attentively in that forum, at least in the patch before this one. The carrier being brought back was them listening to incontrol + various pros and the oracle phase shield was actually a specific suggestion from grubby. It was really awesome to see Blizzard make the changes after listening to them and evaluating their suggestions.

(Just want to give the development team big props for that)

On September 21 2012 17:33 totalpigeon wrote:
Mothership core might make early TvP rushes irrelevant, but that surely also means tanks could finally get that damage buff without breaking the 1-1-1? Mothership core should be immune to tank fire anyway, tis a flying unit right?

On September 21 2012 16:14 SC2John wrote:
I think purify is perfectly fine in its current state. There has been some question as to its viability to actually defend, but I think, more and more, we're seeing it as a way to buy time rather than downright crush an early attack. In this way, it's not quite as good as, say, a void ray, but it works about the same in that a roach rush cannot continue even if the wall is down and there's only 1 sentry. It buys time for something like warp gate to finish, etc. In addition, we're seeing more of energize on sentries for more stalling time, making purify more of a "OH SHIT, I JUST NEED TO NOT DIE RIGHT NOW" ability. I think the idea of defending drops is also good. If you can position your MSC at your main while guarding your natural and 3rd, you'd have an easier time with drops, etc, in PvT.

As for offensive purposes...I've seen how ridiculous it is so far. There...might be ways to deal with this, but we'll have to see. I think it's too early to call MSC all-ins OP or unstoppable without more research. I feel like, aside from PvZ, the MSC is far too vulnerable to be allowed to float across the map.

All in all, I think it's a fair change so far. I like the idea of purify, I think the range will be a good benefit as well. I don't think it's a bad ability or idea, but it will definitely need some more tweaking.