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Dayvie, Purify isn't working. It's good for attacking and bad at defense, which is the exact opposite of what it should be. I know you're gonna fix it. I've read your blogs, listened to your interviews, we've even played on ladder a few times in WoL. I know you've got this. But the last two balance changes have me a little nervous since they're going precisely backwards.
Your goal is for purify to be strong for defense, but not too strong for offense. When the beta began, you found that purify was weak for for defense because the attacker could just duck out of range and wait for purify to expire. Meanwhile, it was actually pretty decent for offense because bases don't run away.
So you started by buffing the range from 7 to 10, hoping that purify would be better for defense since it would get more shots off while the attacker pulled back. But this is supposed to be a PvP fix, and an extra shot or two on a retreating stalker isn't that big of a deal. Meanwhile, buffing the range made the core WAY better at attacking. At 10 range, it can pick off spines, queens and bunkers while mitigating return fire.
And now you've buffed its burst damage while reducing the defensive availability of the effect (shorter duration, higher energy cost). I'm guessing that this too was to make purify kill more units before they retreat. But defensively, that extra retreat damage comes at the cost of making purify less available and allowing the attacker to return sooner. And it naturally makes the core even stronger for attacks where you can plan for that huge DPS to be there right when you need it.
In Starcraft, the attacker chooses WHEN the battle happens. That means the attacker wants to be powerful in a short burst, while the defender wants to be equally ready at all times to prevent the attacker from forcing the fight at a moment of weakness. At 100 energy for purify, the mothership core has exactly zero defensive utility for the first 89 seconds after it spawns. That's a gigantic window where the defender would absolutely be better off if they hadn't built the core. And after that 25 second purify cast, there's another 153 second window where the core is again completely and utterly useless.
Does 89 seconds of weakness, 25 seconds of face-smashing awesomeness, and 153 seconds of weakness sound like a good defense? No, it sounds awful--the attacker just fights during one of the huge windows of weakness.
But it's AWESOME for an attack where you get to force the fight to happen during those 25 seconds.
What you need to do to make purify good for defense is make it so that it's always available to the defender. In order to discourage offensive use, you need to make it not too powerful in short bursts which an attacker will always manipulate to line up with the engagement. Simply put, reduce or remove the energy requirement, and nerf the attack itself.
And while you're at it, if you really don't want the mothership core to be used offensively, take the range back down to 7 and make purify only enabled when the mothership core is positioned within a power field. That way, its attack can be plenty powerful for defense, but super weak for offense since the attacker would have to slow push pylons into the enemy's base in order to make a mothership core rush deal any lasting damage.
Please fix this. Don't keep buffing its ability to pick off a retreating unit at 10 range--that just makes it insanely strong for an attack. Defense needs to be reliable and available. Offense needs to be powerful in short bursts. This critical concept needs to be reflected in purify's design.
PS: I'd appreciate it if someone with beta access could re-post this in the HOTS beta forums so that it has a snowball's chance in hell to actually be seen.
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I agree with this, i think purify is heading in the wrong direction.
This is what i posted in the private HoTS beta forums before the latest two patches about my ideas on the mothership core.
I feel the mothership core can be tweaked into something more integral to our race and end up becoming kinda like what the queen is to zerg. It should be the first thing every protoss player wants to make when gets his cyber up.
1. Hotkey priority selection
The mofo core spell is kinda a one off thing. You use either purify once or energize once and then you're done with it for the next 5 minutes. Often times when selecting units in your base during a defense, the mofo core is usually parked at the entrance and gets caught in the selection and ends up delaying forcefields or makes the user have to TAB through his other spell casters to get to it.
Also, say I wanna do an attack but want to have the mofo core in my hotkey selection so i can recall my army should things go bad. I don't want it in another hotkey, nor do I want to have to press TAB first before i cast FFs every single time when selecting my main army group.
Basically I feel it should be moved to the last in terms of priority in spell casting units because of the relative infrequent usage of the spells.
2. Movement speed within base
The mofo core is incredibly slow. That is good. When its being "offensive". However, when used as a defense, good players know never to engage, they either wait out the purify charge or they "kite" by walking 1 square out of its range each time and avoid it completely. If its supposed to be a defensive unit at times, it needs to be able to defend more competently! Perhaps if its within a pylon radius it is "powered" by pylons and moves at a slightly faster speed, maybe that of the tempest? The concept would be similar to queens moving faster on creep and being able to provide that added defenders advantage. I don't see why we can't have this for protoss as well.
It would also introduce a few more dynamics in the game like the importance of pylon placement or chaining pylons in a row. This way it becomes unit people pay more attention to that could move "quicker" between your three bases for defending rather that it just staying in one position during the whole assault with people not bothering to move it cause it will never get there in time. Its "off-pylon" speed is good and should remain the same as it is now.
3. Mothership morphing speed
This is a tricky one. I do not like that you cannot chorno the build time and as a result the loss of it is much more severe compared to WoL. If you mofo ship dies, gl for the next 5 mins. And at the same time starting with full energy makes it almost OP so perhaps a better balance between the energy and morphing time could be reached.
Maybe during the transition into the mofo ship, a tripod extends itself out of its !@# and plants itself to the ground, effectively making it a building during the transition. There is also proper animation so it looks more realistic with it slowly increasing in size during the morph, and will give opponents an idea when the mofo ship is about to pop out based on the animation. Right now its like whoa where did that come from! Surprise! It was in my pocket all along! And this also means since its a building during that period it gets added armor and that way it can be chronoed too, making logical sense.
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Don't bother reasoning with logic. We've got a battle hellion who's biological now.
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nirvana, if you have access to the private forums, can you make sure the design team knows that short powerful bursts are good for offense but bad for defense? This seems so obvious, but they're going in the exact opposite direction. It's mind-boggling that they'd buff damage and attack range while reducing its defensive availability.
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hi kcdc, I have done so.
Do note that Blizzard really does listen attentively in that forum, at least in the patch before this one. The carrier being brought back was them listening to incontrol + various pros and the oracle phase shield was actually a specific suggestion from grubby. It was really awesome to see Blizzard make the changes after listening to them and evaluating their suggestions.
(Just want to give the development team big props for that)
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On September 21 2012 10:08 aLt)nirvana wrote:
hi kcdc, I have done so.
Do note that Blizzard really does listen attentively in that forum, at least in the patch before this one. The carrier being brought back was them listening to incontrol + various pros and the oracle phase shield was actually a specific suggestion from grubby. It was really awesome to see Blizzard make the changes after listening to them and evaluating their suggestions.
(Just want to give the development team big props for that)
Is no one telling them to buff Siege Tanks 
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I don't know if I agree 100% with this, I mean, it all depends on the type of attack you are under, sometimes a stronger defense that lasts less time is better than a really long but weak one.
I still need to see more MC attacks to know if it is really viable or if it just that the opponents still are not prepared for it and so it may look better than it really is.
I do agree that MC should be changed until attacking with it becomes nonviable/really bad.
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I'd like to see what happens if it can only cast purify when within a pylons range.
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they should just go back with it being immobile, make the movement speed 0, and give to it an ability that has a cooldown or requires low energy, that allows the MC to teleport to any protoss building (maybe exclude pylons since it could be used for cheese).
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God forbid you can ever do a rush strategy against protoss. The mothership core is a unit that you almost get for free. Protoss has some issues with defending in pvp, but what is with people that think the expansion is supposed to stop all aggressive play?
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Meh. If it can hold early pressure and also be sued offensively I don't mind that.
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On September 21 2012 10:32 Grumbels wrote:
God forbid you can ever do a rush strategy against protoss. The mothership core is a unit that you almost get for free. Protoss has some issues with defending in pvp, but what is with people that think the expansion is supposed to stop all aggressive play?
Didn't realize 150/150 and worker build time was free. Didn't realize that my momma core ALWAYS had 100 energy to be defensive with. Oh wait, it doesn't. Quit being an idiot. This thing is trash and will not change pvp. I'll attack, be delayed 25 seconds just like if you dropped ff's with sentries. Except now there's no ff's. And it doesn't even attack at all once it's done. So i'll rape your base afterwards. Blizzard is doing terrible things with hots and it's going to trash very quickly.
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Wait, I thought the purify could only be placed on Nexuses? So then how can it ever be used offensive unless you build a nexus in your enemy's base? Or, if you can place it anywhere, why not just change it to only be able to put in on Nexuses? Problem fixed?
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On September 21 2012 10:36 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 10:32 Grumbels wrote:
God forbid you can ever do a rush strategy against protoss. The mothership core is a unit that you almost get for free. Protoss has some issues with defending in pvp, but what is with people that think the expansion is supposed to stop all aggressive play? Didn't realize 150/150 and worker build time was free. Didn't realize that my momma core ALWAYS had 100 energy to be defensive with. Oh wait, it doesn't. Quit being an idiot. This thing is trash and will not change pvp. I'll attack, be delayed 25 seconds just like if you dropped ff's with sentries. Except now there's no ff's. And it doesn't even attack at all once it's done. So i'll rape your base afterwards. Blizzard is doing terrible things with hots and it's going to trash very quickly.
not that Im argueing for or against you but isnt it 100/100?
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On September 21 2012 10:35 DeCoup wrote:
Meh. If it can hold early pressure and also be sued offensively I don't mind that.
It's not about whether the current stat numbers are where they should be, it's about Blizzard understanding the implications of the stats. They said they wanted it to be a defensive unit, and then they changed some stat values to make it worse on defense and better on offense. Whether or not you want it to be good on offense, that means someone's not doing their job correctly and beta testers should tell them about it.
Edit: to the above few posters. It's 100/100, 30 second build time (a bit less than 2 probes), and is a flying unit with 0.47 move speed, it is no longer attached to the nexus.
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On September 21 2012 10:36 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2012 10:32 Grumbels wrote:
God forbid you can ever do a rush strategy against protoss. The mothership core is a unit that you almost get for free. Protoss has some issues with defending in pvp, but what is with people that think the expansion is supposed to stop all aggressive play? Didn't realize 150/150 and worker build time was free. Didn't realize that my momma core ALWAYS had 100 energy to be defensive with. Oh wait, it doesn't. Quit being an idiot. This thing is trash and will not change pvp. I'll attack, be delayed 25 seconds just like if you dropped ff's with sentries. Except now there's no ff's. And it doesn't even attack at all once it's done. So i'll rape your base afterwards. Blizzard is doing terrible things with hots and it's going to trash very quickly.
It's sad. I don't even know why I bother with online forums sometimes, what with all the stupidity. (it must be boredom)
The mothership core costs 50/50 and has a quite low build time. You will have purify by the time most rush strategies hit, outside of really early ones. Protoss has forcefields, that will have your opponent have to commit to any aggressive moves. So even if purify only lasts 20 seconds, it's enough to stop most attacks. And even if you attack and then successfully run away to draw out purify, you will still get some kills with it and either way it's an improvement to your base defense.
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On September 21 2012 10:32 Grumbels wrote:
God forbid you can ever do a rush strategy against protoss. The mothership core is a unit that you almost get for free. Protoss has some issues with defending in pvp, but what is with people that think the expansion is supposed to stop all aggressive play?
I said nerf its stats. It's right there in the post. I don't want it to be super-strong defensively--just strong enough to give the defender an edge in early PvP WG attacks. What matters is that it's reliably available defensively and not that great for attacks.
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Great post, definitely correct. Blizzard, fix this plz.
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I just don't think Purify is ever going to work as intended. Because if you buff it too much it will shut down all aggressive strategies early game. It will always just be a buying time spell, people will just bait out purify and then wait or find other means of entry into the enemy base. It will always just be a time buying spell which does help Protoss early game but it's just not a fun to use or watch game mechanic.
Which is why I think they should just scrap purify and start coming up with a new defensive ability. Give the mothership core the ability to create destructible rocks in a specific area. That way it could block off ramps and chokes giving Protoss more time to build an army behind. Then change the name of the Mothership Core to Dustin Browder and bam, fixed.
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On September 21 2012 11:11 Buchan wrote:
I just don't think Purify is ever going to work as intended. Because if you buff it too much it will shut down all aggressive strategies early game. It will always just be a buying time spell, people will just bait out purify and then wait or find other means of entry into the enemy base. It will always just be a time buying spell which does help Protoss early game but it's just not a fun to use or watch game mechanic.
Which is why I think they should just scrap purify and start coming up with a new defensive ability. Give the mothership core the ability to create destructible rocks in a specific area. That way it could block off ramps and chokes giving Protoss more time to build an army behind. Then change the name of the Mothership Core to Dustin Browder and bam, fixed.
.....thats called force field we already have that :D
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EPT
