|
On September 08 2012 07:00 IPA wrote:
I think the Swarm Host is borderline OP (masters zerg here).
When pros begin using it properly (like Stephano) with dancing / timed burrows when a new cycle is up / etc, they will be seen as fairly OP I think. What about something like...
- lower DPS (possibly substantially)
- increase burrow speed
- increase locus speed
- Leave the locust upgrade or make it 5 seconds of additional life instead of 10
I love the unit and would like it to remain strong but balanced.
i think ppl are just not finding counters to hosts yet... i mean its been like 1 or 2 days beta has been out? and ppl are already crying OP before trying out all possible counters to it. ive been watching a fair amount of streams and ravent with hunter seeker missles on the terran mech side just tears swarm hosts apart. carfully placed widow mines are also a good ticket to get rid of them or prevent set up.
on the protoss side storm with other splash units is by far the best option. the problem for protoss tho is that 2 base hosts come way to fast so getting the proper deathball for them is hard, but it can be done if scouted, and 2 base hosts are pretty easy to scout... get an observer early and just prevent them from setting up outside of ur base while preparing ur tech. stargate tech is also very good to get rid of them especially with oracles revealing all burrowed units.
that being said if they do nerf hosts then i really hope they increase movement speed of locusts and the hosts themselves. right now there only useful if u have a certain critical mass of them and anything less than that would render them useless.
i find it so painful that ppl, protoss players in particular, are crying imbalance when they are still in WoL strategy mode... i mean no shit ur going to get stomped if ur massing immortals expecting roaches and instead u get 10 hosts that u cant kill because immortals are useless against them. most players that get stomped from hosts that ive seen have like 2-4 immortals sitting there trying to kill locusts (with no observers i might add)... i mean srsly, its beta. trying something new to counter new emerging strats...
this is especially true when ppl match up against stephano. clearly ppl think he is going to roach all in and when he doesnt they blame the swarm hosts instead of there bad decision to make blind immortals.
its funny tho because the irony of all this is that pre beta everyone was saying how sucky swarm hosts were going to be and how lurkers would be better. beta hits, swarm hosts are now OP. i find that hilarious tbh. ppl honestly need to start thinking outside of the box for once.
|
Imo Swarm Hosts right now are like how VRs were. They were/are midgame-lategame units abused in early aggro.
If Blizz nerfs Swarm Hosts, they probably won't be seen very often (at least on a pro level) for a long while.
|
This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but if your desire for changing the Swarm Host is motivated by a desire to see Lurkers return then your efforts are better spent elsewhere. There is no way Blizzard is going to make a change of that magnitude at this point. You're better off suggesting improvements to the Swarm Host.
|
Swarm Host is flawed because Zerg shouldn't have and doesn't need a siege unit. It's laughable that Zerg in SC2 has two siege units that outclass the tank.
The unit itself is extremely powerful though, and I suspect further nerfs.
|
The only good thing about swarm host in my opinion is that zerg can finally two base all-in protoss. heh heh, toss can finally know what it feels like 
But also, watching stephano play with swarmhosts, they are actually really really boring to use, especially because of their mobility and slow spawn time...but they are definitely good until real late game armies come out (raven, mothership, etc).
|
On September 08 2012 09:20 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Swarm Host is flawed because Zerg shouldn't have and doesn't need a siege unit. It's laughable that Zerg in SC2 has two siege units that outclass the tank.
The current metagame in Zerg matchups involves them aiming for a victory late game with a Broodlord/Infestor composition. By giving Zerg a way to push an advantage in the midgame, Blizzard is aiming to reduce the Zerg reliance on delaying the game to endgame. This also opens up the option to nerf their endgame and buff that of others.
Swarm Hosts and Broodlords are similar, but they have a very big difference - one can be built far, far sooner than the other. The fact that the Broodlord exists doesn't mean the Swarm Host has no reason to - the Swarm Host brings the advantage that it can be built earlier, while the Broodlord retains its advantage of being a better siege unit overall (mostly because Broodlings get to their targets instantly and do damage in the process).
|
Personally I like the idea of making the locusts spawn under ground, rapidly move towards their targets and pop out at close/melee range and make them melee units. It would make it so they could be melee again without completely dying before reaching the enemy and allow the enemy to use detection/scans to target the locusts if they see them coming.
Also this doesn't take away from any of the current micro the unit would require spreading vs splash and burrowing/unburrowing to unleash locusts and getting away from enemies/re positioning.
|
I think the locust should keep its high damage and become a melee unit, but have a health and speed buff to actually do damage. For besieging siege lines, as Locusts are meant to do, melee is a good idea, as it will cause friendly fire if in close proximity to enemy terran units while being shot by tanks.
I also think its a great idea for Locusts to be able to burrow and move underground once spawned my the Swarm Host, but it should be a researchable upgrade. Also, the Locusts should be moving at their normal speed underground, but with a damage resistance while in that state, so detectors would not completely ruin its chances.
|
Don't forget that the swarm host is the only unit in the game that not only cannot shoot up cliffs, but it cannot shoot down cliffs either.
|
On September 08 2012 08:32 Antylamon wrote:
Imo Swarm Hosts right now are like how VRs were. They were/are midgame-lategame units abused in early aggro.
If Blizz nerfs Swarm Hosts, they probably won't be seen very often (at least on a pro level) for a long while.
Maybe we should all call out bad boring units to get Blizzard to listen and make a better game? I mean sorry that I don't want to wait 2+ more years for the other expansion to see if they can finally get a single thing right in SC2.
|
Anybody else think the plural of "cliff" should be "clives" and not "cliffs"?
|
So I come in here and read the OP about how this unit is bad. 4 pages later theres people saying its OP. I've also seen streams where they seem to dominate.
Which is it? Do they suck and not fill the role of a Zerg siege unit or are they too good?
|
On September 08 2012 12:35 Supamang wrote:
So I come in here and read the OP about how this unit is bad. 4 pages later theres people saying its OP. I've also seen streams where they seem to dominate.
Which is it? Do they suck and not fill the role of a Zerg siege unit or are they too good?
They're great, borderline OP right now as people are trying to figure out how to combat them. People saying that they're bad are comparing them to lurkers which is silly.
|
On September 08 2012 12:30 red.venom wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 08:32 Antylamon wrote:
Imo Swarm Hosts right now are like how VRs were. They were/are midgame-lategame units abused in early aggro.
If Blizz nerfs Swarm Hosts, they probably won't be seen very often (at least on a pro level) for a long while. Maybe we should all call out bad boring units to get Blizzard to listen and make a better game? I mean sorry that I don't want to wait 2+ more years for the other expansion to see if they can finally get a single thing right in SC2.
You consider the swarm host boring? Whenever I see them involved in a fight, it draws it out and makes for interesting scenarios.
|
On September 08 2012 12:32 lowercase wrote:
Anybody else think the plural of "cliff" should be "clives" and not "cliffs"?
english orthography needs an expansion way more than starcraft does, to fix all its inconsistensies
but its taking even longer to come out it seems
|
On September 08 2012 13:45 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 12:32 lowercase wrote:
Anybody else think the plural of "cliff" should be "clives" and not "cliffs"? english orthography needs an expansion way more than starcraft does, to fix all its inconsistensies but its taking even longer to come out it seems
I see no inconsistency here. Notice the double 'f' at the end. It's not the same as scarf -> scarves, calf -> calves etc.
|
if anything the only nerf they needed was a nerf to building damage. So something along the lines of "does 25% less damage to structures everything else the same" would have been better than just simply nerfing the unit in general. These things border on the line of "will use? will never use!"
|
I've been saying the same thing.. I think the design of the Swarm Host is pretty flawed. It's overpowered in some cases where it shouldn't be yet it still sucks at what it's meant to do...which is be a siege unit.
|
On September 08 2012 16:27 zoohairZ wrote:
I've been saying the same thing.. I think the design of the Swarm Host is pretty flawed. It's overpowered in some cases where it shouldn't be yet it still sucks at what it's meant to do...which is be a siege unit.
Really? Wondering how you came to that conclusion that they suck at being a Siege Unit, when all of the top Zerg players are destroying with Swarm Host because of their Siege range.
|
On September 08 2012 13:53 johnny123 wrote:
if anything the only nerf they needed was a nerf to building damage. So something along the lines of "does 25% less damage to structures everything else the same" would have been better than just simply nerfing the unit in general. These things border on the line of "will use? will never use!"
Are you joking? T and P build walls against Zerg to prevent them from getting overwhelmed. The whole point of a zerg siege unit would be to break down those walls.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
