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On September 06 2012 04:02 Psychobabas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 03:57 Killmouse wrote:On September 06 2012 03:50 Psychobabas wrote:
LOL so warhounds are imba now.
Or is it that they change the game too much for some people's liking... dont u like imba warhounds? I love the warhound. Just noticing all the zergs and protoss complaining in the first day of beta makes me want to strangle a puppy. We want amove too you know... or at least some of us.
only some T want an a move unit. T is interesting because it makes fight challenging (like ling/bling zvz you have to give it all :p) not because you MBS/macro your shit and a move.
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On September 06 2012 05:46 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 05:42 Sp00ly wrote:
So has anybody seen how a tradition MMM ball does against a mostly warhound comp? I've seen ForGG's MMM lose against CuteAngel mech (who was that again, sounds familiar), but the latter one just used some warhounds to strengthen the traditional mech against marauders (he went plenty of hellion/warhound with some tanks).
CuteAngel is Major, by the way.
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First, let's try the game before !!
I think Warhound looks incredibely strong, even vs zerg. But maybe other races will need to find a way to play against it, new unit composition, new gameplan, etc etc. Current metagame is obviousely not adapted to these new units.
I like +2 supply count, you have such a big army with 200 supply that it reminds be BW.
Remember this is only a beta version, and anyway I won't be suprised if they already nerf the warhound because everyone want to keep 20% terrans GM and master league.
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Problem of warhound isn't that they are too strong.
That, is a beta problem.
Problem is that this unit has NOTHING TO DO in mech army. Just kill the playstyle. Kill the fun of it. Zerg Swarm Host centry army are more mech thant terran mech in HoTS.
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On September 06 2012 06:24 architecture wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:20 maybenexttime wrote:On September 06 2012 06:11 Embir wrote:On September 06 2012 05:59 maybenexttime wrote:On September 06 2012 05:45 Embir wrote:On September 06 2012 05:43 vOdToasT wrote:
Another uninteresting a move marauder type unit. Yeah, it's shitty design, but what the hell are we going to do about it at this point? I don't see how we can rescue the messy trainwreck that is StarCraft 2. One question - why are u even on this forum? If SC2 is that shitty game just leave - believe me no one will cry after you. Well, blizzard killed BW for this thing. StarCraft fans are just trying to salvage whatever they can. Try to be objective. Compare HotS to BW and TFT. When experiencing the latter two for the first time, pretty much everybody was like "OH SHIT, OH SHIT, I CAN'T WAIT!!". When it comes to HotS, most additions are either meh or making the game worse. There are tons of people who are majorly dissapointed. Blizzard is dumbing down the game even more, adding blatant a-move units and showing they have no clue were they're going with this expansion pack. Instead of fixing the flaws, they are botching the game further. First off Blizz killed nothing - BW died naturally, it wasnt popular outside Korea these days and there were difficulties with sponsors - thus as buisness model it was unsustainable. Secondly, I don't see tons of people majorly dissapointed - what I see is a vocal minority of whiny nerds and dumb BW fanbois. BW is still there - if this is such a perfect game no one is denying them to play it. So BW fans, dont salvage what is best in your opinion in SC2, you still got your precious BW. I love SC2, most of my friends play it too, it is great game. Of course some decisions of the developers might be questionable but contrary to most whiners I look forward optimistically. I'm not talking about the foreign scene... Blizzard killed BW in Korea. They bullied the whole scene for two years, blackmailed KeSPA to force them to switch to sc2. To the point all sponsors outside KeSPA did not want to have anything to do with "illegitimate leagues". You seem pretty blind. People optimistically looking forward to hots are in a minority. Not to mention the fact that sc2 lost half of its original player base since release, while both BW and WC3 were actually gaining players over the years. I think Blizzard really needs to be worried. Lots of bad decisions have made the reception and growth of SC2 and D3 fairly lukewarm. I imagine they wanted to make a bigger splash. As much of a disaster as D3 was, it sold well. But I don't think they will have that luxury with HOTS. Most people are not looking forward to it: 1. Most people are not interested in playing Z only single player. Not _that_ many Z fans in casual players 2. Game doesn't have public mindshare, everyone was still playing SC1 when BW came out 3. Game doesn't have momentum, it's not growing. I really doubt that HOTS will sell well.
For the past several years blizzard has been riding on their impeccable reputation alone. Their recent releases are getting progressivly worse. From giving people what they wanted they turned to telling people what they supposedly want. From creating the best games they turned to marketing them as the best thing since sliced bread.
I don't think blizzard can do that any longer. If VALVE decides to make a competitive RTS they might as well beat blizzard in that regard because they actually listen to their player base, they don't just catter to casual players and understand that a game requiring lots of skill can still be fun for casuals. They also are great at delivering their games in an accessible manner (Steam, reasonable pricing).
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I also think the new battlecruiser is incredibly ovepowered. im a high master toss and already some terrans on ladder are doing turtle style with planetaries, sensor towers, some defensive tanks, hellions.
only way to beat mech is to catch the terran unsieged. sieged tanks will trade fairly well with all the toss counters. every time you see mech lose in pro games its where the terran was retarded and lost 20 hellions doing a stupid runby, or was caught unsieged
if the terran just always is sieged in a defensive location by his planetaries, with a couple sensor towers revealing all prism harass attempts, he can slowly leapfrog his tanks across his side of the map being defensive and turtling and eventually take his half of the map. as protoss wtf can you do? attack into sieged positions?
thats suicide. instead i immediately expand 5 times for free the moment i see the terran doing this. take my half of the map, heck even take some of HIS untaken expansions. And still im at a loss because we both reach 200food at around the same time since 3bases can reach 200food quickly. So im left charging into his sieged positions suiciding all my money. i try taking 200food of stalkers blinking around the map, but sensor towers see it and 3/3 hellions trade pretty well with 3/3/3 stalkers. he unsieges 3 of his tanks and takes 3 tanks and 35 hellions and responds to my blink stalker harassment and deals with it pretty well then stalkers die to the hellions + planetaries and also die to new hellions/thors popping out.
i dont face much terrans who do this but its maybe 1 in 10 games now becoming alot more common. mech turtle into battlecruiser/tank/thor/ghost
once they get that... its like WTF stupid.
warhounds will likely get nerfed (as their statline now is about 35% stronger than the buffed battlecruiser), but this battlecruiser buff will stay. Battlecruisers already are insanely strong against stalkers. Do not like this BC buff at all (+2 damage, essentially +25% damage). My main option against the 3/3 battlecruisers was suiciding waves of 3/3/3 stalkers against it combined with storm+mothership+ archon toilet. But this +25% damage buff, thats insane
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The unit looks like shit. It just doesnt fit the SC-universe.
Major revamp would be nice.
This is based on 5 hours mind you. First reaction is negative.
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On September 06 2012 06:20 Duncaaaaaan wrote:
Terran = the new A move race.
No thought required, make battle hellions, make warhounds, make vikings, A move, win game.
So this is how Dustin Bowder thought of making mech more viable in TvP? Just turn mech into bio in big metal boxes with legs?
Fuck this shit. I can stand changes like worker auto mine and not being able to click on enemies or mineral patches, but I cannot stand the way the terran game is shifting.
I've been watching ForGG and all he's done every single match is make those two units and just tried to out-upgrade and out-concave his opponent, absolutely zero skill involved compared to making tanks or going bio.
Wait, you can't click on enemy units to see their upgrades? Or click enemy resources to see how much gas they've mined??
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valve has past of making any rts games. apart from that I find their games quite bland apart from vanilla tf2. they do catter ther players alot, and present very straight foward gameplays.
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On September 06 2012 06:33 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:24 architecture wrote:On September 06 2012 06:20 maybenexttime wrote:On September 06 2012 06:11 Embir wrote:On September 06 2012 05:59 maybenexttime wrote:On September 06 2012 05:45 Embir wrote:On September 06 2012 05:43 vOdToasT wrote:
Another uninteresting a move marauder type unit. Yeah, it's shitty design, but what the hell are we going to do about it at this point? I don't see how we can rescue the messy trainwreck that is StarCraft 2. One question - why are u even on this forum? If SC2 is that shitty game just leave - believe me no one will cry after you. Well, blizzard killed BW for this thing. StarCraft fans are just trying to salvage whatever they can. Try to be objective. Compare HotS to BW and TFT. When experiencing the latter two for the first time, pretty much everybody was like "OH SHIT, OH SHIT, I CAN'T WAIT!!". When it comes to HotS, most additions are either meh or making the game worse. There are tons of people who are majorly dissapointed. Blizzard is dumbing down the game even more, adding blatant a-move units and showing they have no clue were they're going with this expansion pack. Instead of fixing the flaws, they are botching the game further. First off Blizz killed nothing - BW died naturally, it wasnt popular outside Korea these days and there were difficulties with sponsors - thus as buisness model it was unsustainable. Secondly, I don't see tons of people majorly dissapointed - what I see is a vocal minority of whiny nerds and dumb BW fanbois. BW is still there - if this is such a perfect game no one is denying them to play it. So BW fans, dont salvage what is best in your opinion in SC2, you still got your precious BW. I love SC2, most of my friends play it too, it is great game. Of course some decisions of the developers might be questionable but contrary to most whiners I look forward optimistically. I'm not talking about the foreign scene... Blizzard killed BW in Korea. They bullied the whole scene for two years, blackmailed KeSPA to force them to switch to sc2. To the point all sponsors outside KeSPA did not want to have anything to do with "illegitimate leagues". You seem pretty blind. People optimistically looking forward to hots are in a minority. Not to mention the fact that sc2 lost half of its original player base since release, while both BW and WC3 were actually gaining players over the years. I think Blizzard really needs to be worried. Lots of bad decisions have made the reception and growth of SC2 and D3 fairly lukewarm. I imagine they wanted to make a bigger splash. As much of a disaster as D3 was, it sold well. But I don't think they will have that luxury with HOTS. Most people are not looking forward to it: 1. Most people are not interested in playing Z only single player. Not _that_ many Z fans in casual players 2. Game doesn't have public mindshare, everyone was still playing SC1 when BW came out 3. Game doesn't have momentum, it's not growing. I really doubt that HOTS will sell well. For the past several years blizzard has been riding on their impeccable reputation alone. Their recent releases are getting progressivly worse. From giving people what they wanted they turned to telling people what they supposedly want. From creating the best games they turned to marketing them as the best thing since sliced bread. I don't think blizzard can do that any longer. If VALVE decides to make a competitive RTS they might as well beat blizzard in that regard because they actually listen to their player base, they don't just catter to casual players and understand that a game requiring lots of skill can still be fun for casuals. They also are great at delivering their games in an accessible manner (Steam, reasonable pricing).
I'm going to write a piece about this at some point, but basically Blizzard is living in the past.
1. Valve has already made a competitive RTS. It's called DOTA. It will overshadow SC2 globally.
2. The fact that Blizzard did not buy up DOTA, and/or passed on it is a significant lack of judgment.
3. The reason they did it is because they think they can make a platform where there's a huge network effect of people playing all of their games. If you see your buddy playing D3, you will want to hop on and play with them, and vice versa for SC2 and WOW.
4. They think they can make a game like SC2 and D3, with significant features cut and have the game stand, because if you look back at SC1 and D2, those games were able to stand missing a few features.
But what they don't understand is that in 1998, FOURTEEN YEARS AGO, THE WORLD WAS DIFFERENT.
BNET was one of the FEW platforms where you could reliably hang out. That's why people played UMS, there wasn't another place to socialize and play random games. Today there is STEAM, with any game that you can imagine.
The position of SC1 and D2 was different. They were big fish in a small pond. If you wanted to play online, they were one of the few options with a lot of players.
Today, they are one fish in a big sea.
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On September 06 2012 06:35 DrowSwordsman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:20 Duncaaaaaan wrote:
Terran = the new A move race.
No thought required, make battle hellions, make warhounds, make vikings, A move, win game.
So this is how Dustin Bowder thought of making mech more viable in TvP? Just turn mech into bio in big metal boxes with legs?
Fuck this shit. I can stand changes like worker auto mine and not being able to click on enemies or mineral patches, but I cannot stand the way the terran game is shifting.
I've been watching ForGG and all he's done every single match is make those two units and just tried to out-upgrade and out-concave his opponent, absolutely zero skill involved compared to making tanks or going bio.
Wait, you can't click on enemy units to see their upgrades? Or click enemy resources to see how much gas they've mined??
not until you enable the option to "click neutral units" in controls
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After watching streams the entire day i've not seen a single good game involving Warhounds at all. This unit has to be one of the most boring things they could add.
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DotA is not an RTS though. Far from it. It's much more similar to Diablo 2's arena or something. The only thing it has in common with RTS is that it originted from BW/WC3 (AoS/DotA).
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On September 06 2012 06:35 DrowSwordsman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:20 Duncaaaaaan wrote:
Terran = the new A move race.
No thought required, make battle hellions, make warhounds, make vikings, A move, win game.
So this is how Dustin Bowder thought of making mech more viable in TvP? Just turn mech into bio in big metal boxes with legs?
Fuck this shit. I can stand changes like worker auto mine and not being able to click on enemies or mineral patches, but I cannot stand the way the terran game is shifting.
I've been watching ForGG and all he's done every single match is make those two units and just tried to out-upgrade and out-concave his opponent, absolutely zero skill involved compared to making tanks or going bio.
Wait, you can't click on enemy units to see their upgrades? Or click enemy resources to see how much gas they've mined??
I think you can still click on geysers to check, but you cannot click on mineral patches, period. Not even your own. Meh, it's not going to ruin it for me.
Warhounds are like stimmed roaches though, it's A move shit. Only 150/75 for a 2 supply unit that seems to slaughter absolutely everything when in a group of 15+ with some hellions. I take pride when I win a game as terran with siege tanks, they can be tricky and I feel nervous every time I unsiege and push forwards. Now it's just A move blob vs blob.
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On September 06 2012 06:39 architecture wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:33 maybenexttime wrote:On September 06 2012 06:24 architecture wrote:On September 06 2012 06:20 maybenexttime wrote:On September 06 2012 06:11 Embir wrote:On September 06 2012 05:59 maybenexttime wrote:On September 06 2012 05:45 Embir wrote:On September 06 2012 05:43 vOdToasT wrote:
Another uninteresting a move marauder type unit. Yeah, it's shitty design, but what the hell are we going to do about it at this point? I don't see how we can rescue the messy trainwreck that is StarCraft 2. One question - why are u even on this forum? If SC2 is that shitty game just leave - believe me no one will cry after you. Well, blizzard killed BW for this thing. StarCraft fans are just trying to salvage whatever they can. Try to be objective. Compare HotS to BW and TFT. When experiencing the latter two for the first time, pretty much everybody was like "OH SHIT, OH SHIT, I CAN'T WAIT!!". When it comes to HotS, most additions are either meh or making the game worse. There are tons of people who are majorly dissapointed. Blizzard is dumbing down the game even more, adding blatant a-move units and showing they have no clue were they're going with this expansion pack. Instead of fixing the flaws, they are botching the game further. First off Blizz killed nothing - BW died naturally, it wasnt popular outside Korea these days and there were difficulties with sponsors - thus as buisness model it was unsustainable. Secondly, I don't see tons of people majorly dissapointed - what I see is a vocal minority of whiny nerds and dumb BW fanbois. BW is still there - if this is such a perfect game no one is denying them to play it. So BW fans, dont salvage what is best in your opinion in SC2, you still got your precious BW. I love SC2, most of my friends play it too, it is great game. Of course some decisions of the developers might be questionable but contrary to most whiners I look forward optimistically. I'm not talking about the foreign scene... Blizzard killed BW in Korea. They bullied the whole scene for two years, blackmailed KeSPA to force them to switch to sc2. To the point all sponsors outside KeSPA did not want to have anything to do with "illegitimate leagues". You seem pretty blind. People optimistically looking forward to hots are in a minority. Not to mention the fact that sc2 lost half of its original player base since release, while both BW and WC3 were actually gaining players over the years. I think Blizzard really needs to be worried. Lots of bad decisions have made the reception and growth of SC2 and D3 fairly lukewarm. I imagine they wanted to make a bigger splash. As much of a disaster as D3 was, it sold well. But I don't think they will have that luxury with HOTS. Most people are not looking forward to it: 1. Most people are not interested in playing Z only single player. Not _that_ many Z fans in casual players 2. Game doesn't have public mindshare, everyone was still playing SC1 when BW came out 3. Game doesn't have momentum, it's not growing. I really doubt that HOTS will sell well. For the past several years blizzard has been riding on their impeccable reputation alone. Their recent releases are getting progressivly worse. From giving people what they wanted they turned to telling people what they supposedly want. From creating the best games they turned to marketing them as the best thing since sliced bread. I don't think blizzard can do that any longer. If VALVE decides to make a competitive RTS they might as well beat blizzard in that regard because they actually listen to their player base, they don't just catter to casual players and understand that a game requiring lots of skill can still be fun for casuals. They also are great at delivering their games in an accessible manner (Steam, reasonable pricing). I'm going to write a piece about this at some point, but basically Blizzard is living in the past. 1. Valve has already made a competitive RTS. It's called DOTA. It will overshadow SC2 globally. 2. The fact that Blizzard did not buy up DOTA, and/or passed on it is a significant lack of judgment. 3. The reason they did it is because they think they can make a platform where there's a huge network effect of people playing all of their games. If you see your buddy playing D3, you will want to hop on and play with them, and vice versa for SC2 and WOW. 4. They think they can make a game like SC2 and D3, with significant features cut and have the game stand, because if you look back at SC1 and D2, those games were able to stand missing a few features. But what they don't understand is that in 1998, FOURTEEN YEARS AGO, THE WORLD WAS DIFFERENT. BNET was one of the FEW platforms where you could reliably hang out. That's why people played UMS, there wasn't another place to socialize and play random games. Today there is STEAM, with any game that you can imagine. The position of SC1 and D2 was different. They were big fish in a small pond. If you wanted to play online, they were one of the few options with a lot of players. Today, they are one fish in a big sea.
DOTA an RTS? good try !D
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One awesome thing about the Warhound I just realized - you won't need Vikings to counter Colossus anymore. Take Haywire off auto cast and nuke down all the Colossus with it from far away before they can even do anything.
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On September 06 2012 06:39 architecture wrote:
I'm going to write a piece about this at some point, but basically Blizzard is living in the past.
1. Valve has already made a competitive RTS. It's called DOTA. It will overshadow SC2 globally.
2. The fact that Blizzard did not buy up DOTA, and/or passed on it is a significant lack of judgment.
3. The reason they did it is because they think they can make a platform where there's a huge network effect of people playing all of their games. If you see your buddy playing D3, you will want to hop on and play with them, and vice versa for SC2 and WOW.
4. They think they can make a game like SC2 and D3, with significant features cut and have the game stand, because if you look back at SC1 and D2, those games were able to stand missing a few features.
But what they don't understand is that in 1998 THE WORLD WAS DIFFERENT.
BNET was one of the FEW platforms where you could reliably hang out. That's why people played UMS, there wasn't another place to socialize and play random games. Today there is STEAM, with any game that you can imagine.
The position of SC1 and D2 was different. They were big fish in a small pond. If you wanted to play online, they were one of the few options with a lot of players.
Today, they are one fish in a big sea.
1. It's called Dota 2, and I agree.
2. Blizzard doesn't buy mods. Valve is opposite, they're world renowned for it.
3. Blizz caters to WoW players and the WoW mentality.
4. I agree.
On September 06 2012 06:42 sAsImre wrote:
DOTA an RTS? good try !D
It is an RTS.
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On September 06 2012 05:25 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 04:56 Embir wrote:On September 06 2012 04:55 Mr. Nefarious wrote:
high damage, low cost, excellent against pretty much all units, builds quickly. Needs major changes. Are we talking about Warhound? I thought you just described Infestor... QFT, there is not a single thing that infestors are bad against except maybe a cloaked ghost when no overseers are near...
Infestors make Jormungandr look like a pussy. Not only can they kill Thor, they can mind control it, and one does not simply mind control a god.
On September 06 2012 06:43 aeroblaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:39 architecture wrote:
I'm going to write a piece about this at some point, but basically Blizzard is living in the past.
1. Valve has already made a competitive RTS. It's called DOTA. It will overshadow SC2 globally.
2. The fact that Blizzard did not buy up DOTA, and/or passed on it is a significant lack of judgment.
3. The reason they did it is because they think they can make a platform where there's a huge network effect of people playing all of their games. If you see your buddy playing D3, you will want to hop on and play with them, and vice versa for SC2 and WOW.
4. They think they can make a game like SC2 and D3, with significant features cut and have the game stand, because if you look back at SC1 and D2, those games were able to stand missing a few features.
But what they don't understand is that in 1998 THE WORLD WAS DIFFERENT.
BNET was one of the FEW platforms where you could reliably hang out. That's why people played UMS, there wasn't another place to socialize and play random games. Today there is STEAM, with any game that you can imagine.
The position of SC1 and D2 was different. They were big fish in a small pond. If you wanted to play online, they were one of the few options with a lot of players.
Today, they are one fish in a big sea. 1. It's called Dota 2, and I agree. 2. Blizzard doesn't buy mods. Valve is opposite, they're world renowned for it. 3. Blizz caters to WoW players and the WoW mentality. 4. I agree. It is an RTS.
DOTA is a MOBA bro..
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On September 06 2012 06:43 aeroblaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 06:39 architecture wrote:
I'm going to write a piece about this at some point, but basically Blizzard is living in the past.
1. Valve has already made a competitive RTS. It's called DOTA. It will overshadow SC2 globally.
2. The fact that Blizzard did not buy up DOTA, and/or passed on it is a significant lack of judgment.
3. The reason they did it is because they think they can make a platform where there's a huge network effect of people playing all of their games. If you see your buddy playing D3, you will want to hop on and play with them, and vice versa for SC2 and WOW.
4. They think they can make a game like SC2 and D3, with significant features cut and have the game stand, because if you look back at SC1 and D2, those games were able to stand missing a few features.
But what they don't understand is that in 1998 THE WORLD WAS DIFFERENT.
BNET was one of the FEW platforms where you could reliably hang out. That's why people played UMS, there wasn't another place to socialize and play random games. Today there is STEAM, with any game that you can imagine.
The position of SC1 and D2 was different. They were big fish in a small pond. If you wanted to play online, they were one of the few options with a lot of players.
Today, they are one fish in a big sea. 1. It's called Dota 2, and I agree. 2. Blizzard doesn't buy mods. Valve is opposite, they're world renowned for it. 3. Blizz caters to WoW players and the WoW mentality. 4. I agree. It is an RTS.
lol no. It's a MOBA it has nothing to do with RTS and its basics (ressource management/creating units/fighting with said units)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real-time_strategy
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dota is not an rts and valve didnt made it, valve reskined it.
dota or any other moba overshadowing starcraft2 has nothing to do with their quality. Full throttle is the greatest game ever made but sold 1/12349023450259390490 or sims.
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EPT
