|
I don't think there can be a direct comparison like Very Hard - Platinum and so on.
The Blizzard AI will always push at the same time, every game, with almost the same composition. Will retreat if it can't defeat you by it's calculations but it will still do the same thing. It can be learned and it can be defeated by anyone. You could be thrashing AIs left and right but the second you find yourself in a ladder game you will be greeted by cheese, weird timings & unit compositions, maybe pressure because you really want those ladder points and it's a whole other game.
You could say, at the most, that in order to beat the Very Hard AI in a macro game you need to have some sort of decent macro yourself, maybe gold level, something like that, but it's in no way an indication as to what you can expect in actual ladder games.
|
On May 15 2011 02:05 Heimatloser wrote:Hi guys, the question is simple: How strong is the Blizzard AI compared to Players on BNET? The Blizzard AI has levels like Casual, Normal, Hard, or Brutal, the Battlenet has leagues like Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Master and Grandmaster and what i want to know is if you can compare the AI levels to Bnet leagues. My first thought is NO, AI is always worse then players. The Reason behind the Question is, that i just downloaded the SC2 Demo to see if my System can handle it, and you can play some TvT on Blistering Sands in the Demo, and the Computer on Hard is really... hard to beat;-) I can hold the initial push, but if i want to build an army after that my macro is always worse. I guess i wont buy it if its really THAT hard. i want to have some fun at least... please answer  yours faithfully HL
Late to the party here, but there's a demo!? Seriously?
|
the thing is AI always 1Base all in they only expand when minerals are low, only 1 time i saw a zerg on insane going for expand b4 first attack
|
On May 27 2011 21:43 VaultDweller wrote:
I don't think there can be a direct comparison like Very Hard - Platinum and so on.
The Blizzard AI will always push at the same time, every game, with almost the same composition. Will retreat if it can't defeat you by it's calculations but it will still do the same thing. It can be learned and it can be defeated by anyone. You could be thrashing AIs left and right but the second you find yourself in a ladder game you will be greeted by cheese, weird timings & unit compositions, maybe pressure because you really want those ladder points and it's a whole other game.
You could say, at the most, that in order to beat the Very Hard AI in a macro game you need to have some sort of decent macro yourself, maybe gold level, something like that, but it's in no way an indication as to what you can expect in actual ladder games.
Actually atleast the Very Hard AI does not always attack at the same time using the same unit composition. It just seems like that if you go somewhat standard builds. Very hard cheats and change strats vs certain cheese such as early pool. Not 100% that it change if you build alot of unit X but feels like that too. And it dont always scout what you are up to but it still reacts.
As I said before. If the Very Hard AI was let loose on the ladder and you wont know that you are plaing vs an AI it would probably do quite well.
|
very hard isnt gold ... very hard is barley top of bronze ... when i was top of bronze i was killing it consistently at whatever race i was playing at the time ... the point is you can use it to get your build orders down but it plays VERY differently to people. Also i didnt cheese it - you just have to macro up as you would against a decent bronze / silver player. I wouldn't win every game mind you.
you also have to bear in mind top of bronze usually get promoted to top of silver
|
Insane AI's have more minerals gathered(checked and confirmed), and each level of ai have a good timing attack
|
If I am not mistaken, Very Hard cheats too. Also I think Very Hard is more like a low-diamond. Maybe it's just me.
|
On May 29 2011 00:16 Sufficiency wrote:
If I am not mistaken, Very Hard cheats too. Also I think Very Hard is more like a low-diamond. Maybe it's just me.
Im mid/high silver and I beat it quiet easily on very hard. I think you are over estimating it.
|
On May 15 2011 02:56 TheAwesomeTemplar wrote:
Difficulties are very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard, and insane.
Very easy: rank 85 bronze
Easy: rank 50 bronze
Medium: rank 30 bronze
Hard: rank 30 silver
Very hard: rank 10 silver
Insane: rank 5 gold
I'm platinum and I can't really beat insane
|
To beat insane, you can cheese it, turtle all game and then crush it with better positioning/upgrades/decision making, or be amazing.
|
On May 27 2011 21:43 VaultDweller wrote:
I don't think there can be a direct comparison like Very Hard - Platinum and so on.
The Blizzard AI will always push at the same time, every game, with almost the same composition. Will retreat if it can't defeat you by it's calculations but it will still do the same thing. It can be learned and it can be defeated by anyone. You could be thrashing AIs left and right but the second you find yourself in a ladder game you will be greeted by cheese, weird timings & unit compositions, maybe pressure because you really want those ladder points and it's a whole other game.
Exactly right. AI isn't comparable to the ladder because it's always the same. You just do the counter to that ONE build (ok you'll randomly get cheesed maybe 1 out of 100 times, 99% of the time it's the same attack) and you beat up to very hard every time.
It's just not like a human at all. The developers were really lazy and haven't changed the AI at all since beta.
|
Yeah I was surprised how crappy the AI in starcraft 2 was. I mean they put in the effort of making the computer only use the information they scout on lower difficulties, but then the computer itself just does a scripted rush like they did in starcraft 1. Arguably the AI has not progressed literally at all from starcraft 1 except it scouts now and has more difficulties. Maybe they added a couple different possible scripts for it to follow, but its certainly not any kind of real AI and it still sucks really bad. Hopefully some universities can use BWAPI and make some smart bots for Brood war I would be happy with that. Starcraft 2 has too many hurdles to make AI for like being online only, too many resources and things like that.
|
I think the AI is way better in SC2 than SC1. I mean, loads. My personal feeling is that if you let loose the Very Hard AI on the ladder it would have a decent enough win percent to be a high silver or low/mid gold rating just based on macro. It's true that it doesn't vary it's build very much but it does vary it some, the worst thing is that its AI is abusable in that it doesn't wall/turtle off, so you can keep a small squad near its base, scout, and as soon as you see it out of position halfway across the map run in your squad and trash its economy and get a huge edge that way.
I've played a LOT of games against Very Hard ZvT and I think it's WAY harder to beat than the average bronze player, and somewhat harder than all but the upper tier of silver players.
The computer WILL vary its early build sometimes. Rarely it will do a no gas early marine rush (9-12 marines) that will flatten you if you don't scout it and get too greedy instead of its usually later marine/medic rush that it does most of the time. Sometimes it will go for a couple of early siege tanks but it's not too gosu about how it positions the tanks and doesn't abuse the siege mode the way a good human would. The weakest thing it does is go for early mass reapers - for some reason when it does this it makes the fewest workers.
Playing very hard isn't bad for players learning to macro. At least in ZvT, its T will build 70 or more workers and grab multiple bases, it will even planetary some bases (like the gold in XNC) and put turrets around the PF.
It doesn't assemble a full supply deathball army like a good turtling human player would, it will always attack you with small to intermediate size armies, that's one of its other limitations. And it doesn't abuse drops where the high APM of the computer should allow it to drive you crazy with multiple drops. It rarely drops at all, and if it does it just does on the plateau of your base and not the mineral line, and it doesn't pick up its units and leave, it just commits and loses everything.
The computer will never go for cloaked banshee rushes or blue flame hellions to roast your mineral line like a human player, it won't rush to DTs as Protoss either as far as I've seen. And it'll never cannon rush you.
I just found that the majority of players in bronze and silver don't get that many workers or bases and often don't make as strong an army as the Very Hard computer does. I think it's a decent tool particularly to practice macro, but only playing humans makes you really have to scout for cheese better and tests your decision making under pressure better.
|
It's pretty difficult to compare AI with human players. Some silver/gold players can probably consistently beat the Very Hard AI after figuring out the AI's rather predictable patterns, but while I can beat my silver/gold friends while messing around and toying with them the whole time, I can't afford do that with the VH AI.
I believe the Insane AI can only be beaten by exploiting the AI's weaknesses. This includes cannon/bunker rushes, proxy gates, ling rush (with gas steal), and reapers early game and turtling hard on 2/3 bases as terran or protoss before moving out mid/late game (well, I personally also consider this as an AI exploit because I turtle extra hard to an extent I would never do against human players and the AI throws away a ridiculous number of units by charging straight into a heavily fortified front entrance). Harassing with mobile units also really messes up the AI because it always pulls it entire army back if their base is under attack even if that army is right in front of your base.
The Insane AI gets extra income, it starts to expand like crazy around the time it gets its third base, and it also counters your unit composition from my experiences. For example, if you have a very colossus heavy army, the AI makes a ton of corruptors after their initial roach/hydra army dies. If you have a big flock of mutalisks or void rays flying around the map for long enough, the AI builds a lot of anti-air bulidings as well as its own air units.
The AI's micro is quite strange. It will often run its entire army into my tank line, but its unit split micro vs storm is perfect and its banshee micro is actually decent as well. On the other hand, the AI has no idea what to do against forcefields and it doesn't run away from banelings.
Anyway, back to what I was saying initially, it's really difficult trying to compare the AI with the human players, but I think the hard or VH AI's are good ways to practice your macro if you are plat or below.
|
On June 01 2011 12:04 LordYama wrote:
The computer will never go for cloaked banshee rushes or blue flame hellions to roast your mineral line like a human player, it won't rush to DTs as Protoss either as far as I've seen. And it'll never cannon rush you.
It does go for pretty quick cloaked banshees and DT's, as well as fast void rays. They're just quite rare. I've even seen a zerg AI do a FE into slightly delayed baneling bust.
You probably won't see most of those though unless you're an idiot like me and grind away mass AI games for achievements, lol.
|
does anyone has any thoughts on the greentea AI?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
