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Hi guys,
the question is simple:
How strong is the Blizzard AI compared to Players on BNET?
The Blizzard AI has levels like Casual, Normal, Hard, or Brutal, the Battlenet has leagues like Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond, Master and Grandmaster and what i want to know is if you can compare the AI levels to Bnet leagues.
My first thought is NO,
AI is always worse then players.
The Reason behind the Question is, that i just downloaded the SC2 Demo to see if my
System can handle it, and you can play some TvT on Blistering Sands in the Demo, and the Computer on Hard is really... hard to beat;-) I can hold the initial push, but if i want to build an army after that my macro is always worse. I guess i wont buy it if its really THAT hard. i want to have some fun at least...
please answer
yours faithfully
HL
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It's a no. I can beat the very hard AI nonstop, but am only in high bronze. I've only started laddering last week though.
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your Country52797 Posts
Difficulties are very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard, and insane.
Very easy: rank 85 bronze
Easy: rank 50 bronze
Medium: rank 30 bronze
Hard: rank 30 silver
Very hard: rank 10 silver
Insane: rank 5 gold
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On May 15 2011 02:56 TheAwesomeTemplar wrote:
Difficulties are very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard, and insane.
Very easy: rank 85 bronze
Easy: rank 50 bronze
Medium: rank 30 bronze
Hard: rank 30 silver
Very hard: rank 10 silver
Insane: rank 5 gold
Insane cheats though, I can only beat insane ai by doing weird strategies like cannon rushing. I'm in diamond btw
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guess thats answered
which league do u usually start to use build orders?
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It doesn't matter which league you end up in you should be using some asap. Find one build for each matchup you like, possibly getting a pro replay/vod will help. Don't be too stuck in your ways though you do have to react to what you scout from your opponents tech.
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You should absolutely buy SC2, it's so more much fun than you realize, and the single player missions are very entertaining and help you learn the basics at the same time.
The Blizzard AI is very well designed and is actually better than a lot of players. Also, the online ladder gameplay is extremely well designed... it detects your skill level and only matches you with players with similar skill levels. If you're still learning, you'll only play other beginners and you'll still be able to win quite a few games. Once you start to get better, it will see that you're winning a lot and promote you to the next higher league, where your opponents will be a little bit stronger.
I think the previous poster's league comparisons are inaccurate. Here's how I see it:
Very Easy - no one is this bad, my grandma could beat this on her first time playing
Easy - low bronze league
Medium - mid bronze league
Hard - high silver league
Very Hard - high gold league, possibly platinum
Insane - this AI cheats by getting extra income. can only be beaten by exploiting early game AI weaknesses, would otherwise be in grandmaster league
You will have a LOT of fun if you buy this game, and with a little bit of practice you'll find that you'll be able to produce a lot more units (probably almost double what you're currently making) once you have the early game a little more figured out. Hint: make a LOT of workers to get a strong income, then focus on making as many production buildings as it takes to spend all of that money. Unspent money is your enemy. Learn to mass a lot of units first, then move on to specific strategies.
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On May 15 2011 03:48 Chocobo wrote:
You should absolutely buy SC2, it's so more much fun than you realize, and the single player missions are very entertaining and help you learn the basics at the same time.
The Blizzard AI is very well designed and is actually better than a lot of players. Also, the online ladder gameplay is extremely well designed... it detects your skill level and only matches you with players with similar skill levels. If you're still learning, you'll only play other beginners and you'll still be able to win quite a few games. Once you start to get better, it will see that you're winning a lot and promote you to the next higher league, where your opponents will be a little bit stronger.
I think the previous poster's league comparisons are inaccurate. Here's how I see it:
Very Easy - no one is this bad, my grandma could beat this on her first time playing
Easy - low bronze league
Medium - mid bronze league
Hard - high silver league
Very Hard - high gold league, possibly platinum
Insane - this AI cheats by getting extra income. can only be beaten by exploiting early game AI weaknesses, would otherwise be in grandmaster league
You will have a LOT of fun if you buy this game, and with a little bit of practice you'll find that you'll be able to produce a lot more units (probably almost double what you're currently making) once you have the early game a little more figured out. Hint: make a LOT of workers to get a strong income, then focus on making as many production buildings as it takes to spend all of that money. Unspent money is your enemy. Learn to mass a lot of units first, then move on to specific strategies.
I believe these league comparisons are highly inaccurate especially since you'll be on EU ladder. Like I said very hard AI stomping only got me top 2 bronze placement, mind you I am zerg. Everything else stated though is true. You will have fun.
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On May 15 2011 03:07 Heimatloser wrote:guess thats answered which league do u usually start to use build orders?
A build order is just to help you mkae sure you build the buildings you need to and not miss them, so you should find one you like and use it as soon as possible, it will only help.
And yeah, while in Bronze league I could beat Very Hard AI's (or Insane if I cheesed) so I wouldn't use that as a scale at all.
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On May 15 2011 03:48 Chocobo wrote:
You should absolutely buy SC2, it's so more much fun than you realize, and the single player missions are very entertaining and help you learn the basics at the same time.
The Blizzard AI is very well designed and is actually better than a lot of players. Also, the online ladder gameplay is extremely well designed... it detects your skill level and only matches you with players with similar skill levels. If you're still learning, you'll only play other beginners and you'll still be able to win quite a few games. Once you start to get better, it will see that you're winning a lot and promote you to the next higher league, where your opponents will be a little bit stronger.
I think the previous poster's league comparisons are inaccurate. Here's how I see it:
Very Easy - no one is this bad, my grandma could beat this on her first time playing
Easy - low bronze league
Medium - mid bronze league
Hard - high silver league
Very Hard - high gold league, possibly platinum
Insane - this AI cheats by getting extra income. can only be beaten by exploiting early game AI weaknesses, would otherwise be in grandmaster league
You will have a LOT of fun if you buy this game, and with a little bit of practice you'll find that you'll be able to produce a lot more units (probably almost double what you're currently making) once you have the early game a little more figured out. Hint: make a LOT of workers to get a strong income, then focus on making as many production buildings as it takes to spend all of that money. Unspent money is your enemy. Learn to mass a lot of units first, then move on to specific strategies.
I am in masters as Protoss and can beat zerg easily in late game vs insane. But the stacking effect of terran with the mules and increased income is just too much. PvP can also be won.
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On May 15 2011 04:19 EndOfTime88 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 03:48 Chocobo wrote:
You should absolutely buy SC2, it's so more much fun than you realize, and the single player missions are very entertaining and help you learn the basics at the same time.
The Blizzard AI is very well designed and is actually better than a lot of players. Also, the online ladder gameplay is extremely well designed... it detects your skill level and only matches you with players with similar skill levels. If you're still learning, you'll only play other beginners and you'll still be able to win quite a few games. Once you start to get better, it will see that you're winning a lot and promote you to the next higher league, where your opponents will be a little bit stronger.
I think the previous poster's league comparisons are inaccurate. Here's how I see it:
Very Easy - no one is this bad, my grandma could beat this on her first time playing
Easy - low bronze league
Medium - mid bronze league
Hard - high silver league
Very Hard - high gold league, possibly platinum
Insane - this AI cheats by getting extra income. can only be beaten by exploiting early game AI weaknesses, would otherwise be in grandmaster league
You will have a LOT of fun if you buy this game, and with a little bit of practice you'll find that you'll be able to produce a lot more units (probably almost double what you're currently making) once you have the early game a little more figured out. Hint: make a LOT of workers to get a strong income, then focus on making as many production buildings as it takes to spend all of that money. Unspent money is your enemy. Learn to mass a lot of units first, then move on to specific strategies. I believe these league comparisons are highly inaccurate especially since you'll be on EU ladder. Like I said very hard AI stomping only got me top 2 bronze placement, mind you I am zerg. Everything else stated though is true. You will have fun.
I actually think hes pretty accurate in his assesment. I am a platinum player and when i am a little greedy the v hard AI can beat me with their initial push. (mostly vs zerg that tend to go a roach rush)
mind you i always play vs Random v Hard AI. so i cant always know whats coming at me.
the AI tends to do very few builds against me.
in bronze i was able to beat the v hard AI as well but not consistantly.
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Drawing a comparison between the AI and certain league levels is pretty misleading. Playing against an AI is nothing like playing against a human opponent. The AI does one of a few different strategies every time. It always does a 1-base timing attack, guaranteed, for example.
The AI also has insanely terrible micro. If you get some splash damage units (e.g. tanks) you can easily slaughter an insane AI army that should be able to dominate you.
The AI does not cheese you, does not fast expand, is predictable, etc.
I've been teaching one of my friend's to play SC, and he started off playing just against the AI on my account, and could beat a very hard AI pretty much every time. However, this did not translate into being able to beat human opponents who did builds he had not seen before, or cheesed him. He had some decent fundamental macro from being able to play against the AI, but how he did against human opponents really just depended on how much they played like the AI (e.g. he could win against a platinum player who does a 1-base roach attack, but lose against a bronze league player who cannon rushes him).
TL;DR Comparing the two isn't practical.
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On May 15 2011 02:56 TheAwesomeTemplar wrote:
Difficulties are very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard, and insane.
Very easy: rank 85 bronze
Easy: rank 50 bronze
Medium: rank 30 bronze
Hard: rank 30 silver
Very hard: rank 10 silver
Insane: rank 5 gold
You got it all wrong mate.
Very easy: Everyone can beat it (unless you are 80 in Bronze after playing 50 games)
Easy: Bronze 95
Medium: High Bronze/ Low Silver
Hard: Mid Silver
Very hard: Top Silver-Mid Gold
Very Hard: Mid Gold-Low Platinum
Insane: >Mid Platinum
Insane AI does cheat and even if you are in Diamond you still have difficulty beating it.
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Insane can't really be compared because it cheats.
But let's say we release a Very Hard AI on the ladder, and make it show like it was a human player. People won't use regular cheese against it because they think it's a human player, so they will play a regular game. In that scenario, I think the AI could get to Gold league, maybe Platinum?
EDIT: Insane would go to GM in this scenario. Seriously, can anyone beat Insane AI without cheesing? Replay please?
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Unfortunately, as with many games of this genre, the developers didn't make the AI as good as it could be. Giving the computer extra resources or map vision often serves as a method for making the AI seem more difficult than it really is. I am actually a bit disappointed in how blizzard went about designing the AI for this game. It seems like they cut a few corners here and there. This is especially apparent with the zerg AI, which seems to be the dumbest of the three. Overall, the computer seems to do the same build order almost every time and doesn't seem to make intelligent choices in unit composition.
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Winrate against insane AI is 99.5%, if you know how to do it. If you don't your Winrate will be close to Zero because if you try to play a macro game it's probably insanely good (because it cheats), unless you can hold out to a point where you can again abuse the AI's weaknesses.
I'd bet most of the Grandmaster League players would lose hard against insane AIs unless they already know how to beat them or after they figured it kinda out after a few games.
@Mafarazzo: Turtle. Then counter attack with a few units every time he's attacking you which will make him return with all his units immediately... but what's the point, just cheese him right away to safe time.
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Theres really no way you can beat an Insane AI unless you 6 pool, 2 gate proxy, cannon rush, 2 rax proxy or some other cheese.
On top of that, you pretty much have to abuse their aggressiveness towards buildings being on the same level as their workers. Building a Pylon, Depot, or Extractor and canceling it will slow their economy down a significant amount and make yours surpass theirs.
They expand like crazy. I played a few 2v2s with 3 Insane AI. I cheesed one of them while I relied on my ally to do well enough to kill the other one.
After about 15 minutes, my ally took about 4 or 5 expansions and had a huge army.
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On May 15 2011 06:00 Cloud9157 wrote:
Theres really no way you can beat an Insane AI unless you 6 pool, 2 gate proxy, cannon rush, 2 rax proxy or some other cheese.
On top of that, you pretty much have to abuse their aggressiveness towards buildings being on the same level as their workers. Building a Pylon, Depot, or Extractor and canceling it will slow their economy down a significant amount and make yours surpass theirs.
They expand like crazy. I played a few 2v2s with 3 Insane AI. I cheesed one of them while I relied on my ally to do well enough to kill the other one.
After about 15 minutes, my ally took about 4 or 5 expansions and had a huge army.
yes you can, by playing passive, overly turtling and then massing units that punish the ai for its lackluster unit control and below optimal unit mixtures.
As zerg this would be something like massing spines at the front with zergling baneling defence into a 2 base mass mutalisk against protoss.
The AI will ram units at your front that die while mutalisks travel around raping all his bases.
Voidrays do the same thing only better.
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Doesn't it map hack though, and pretty much auto counter your unit comp?
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On May 15 2011 05:35 carloselcoco wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2011 02:56 TheAwesomeTemplar wrote:
Difficulties are very easy, easy, medium, hard, very hard, and insane.
Very easy: rank 85 bronze
Easy: rank 50 bronze
Medium: rank 30 bronze
Hard: rank 30 silver
Very hard: rank 10 silver
Insane: rank 5 gold You got it all wrong mate. Very easy: Everyone can beat it (unless you are 80 in Bronze after playing 50 games) Easy: Bronze 95 Medium: High Bronze/ Low Silver Hard: Mid Silver Very hard: Top Silver-Mid Gold Very Hard: Mid Gold-Low Platinum Insane: >Mid Platinum Insane AI does cheat and even if you are in Diamond you still have difficulty beating it.
Yeah I totally agree with this, it does depend on the race though. The Zerg insane AI's initial attacks are not hard to stop at all, unlike the Terran's initial Marauder push followed up by a bio/tank/preigniter helion push. Zerg will keep expanding and possibly outproduce you if you are not in Diamond yet, it could be a lot more stronger if the AI gets evolution chambers earlier. Terran just keeps streaming in units with Medivacs, it gets kind of annoying. I can easily beat all three as my main, Protoss, but when I offrace as Zerg (mid-diamond), I have problems dealing with the Terran Insane AI. There is a huge difference between Very Hard and Insane.
Another thing to add, it is almost impossible to beat the Insane AI in ZvT for the FIRST TIME. You pretty much cannot make over 8 drones after the first attack, no matter how much you steamroll it by.
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EPT
