EPTHow to beat Insane AI legit TVT?
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SpiritFriend
16 Posts
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FeiLing
Germany428 Posts
Apart from how beating an AI, of course. And on easy AIs: How to build your base without ever getting attacked. The insane AI has maphack, gathers much more resources than you (cheat) and has over 9000 apm. You can't beat it without abusing the weaknesses of the AI. You can beat it without a rush in the first 5 minutes, but even in a 40 minute game you'll need to abuse the AI to win. | ||
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Kazzabiss
1006 Posts
"The AI does not cheat" -Blizzard | ||
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SpiritFriend
16 Posts
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datachild
United States12 Posts
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Jomz
United Kingdom117 Posts
So I abuse their lack of micro with tanks and mm micro. | ||
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brownthing
United States189 Posts
On March 16 2011 03:45 datachild wrote: Uh easiest thing to do is bunker up and siege with an expansion and go mass BC. It's not really legit but works. That worked against the AI in BW, but I think if you tried that here it would get a billion vikings and just kill all ur BCs | ||
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SimpleNEasy
United States22 Posts
EDIT: Insane Zerg AI is a joke, not that hard to beat. Protoss is possible if you are at least diamond, but Terran is really difficult to beat without cheesing or abusing AI. | ||
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TheKillers
United States17 Posts
Edit: my point is, they dont maphack, or at least they didnt for me. | ||
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Kazzabiss
1006 Posts
On March 16 2011 09:18 SimpleNEasy wrote: I kind of wish AIs in SC2 were not like BWs, just doing one base all ins (but then again there is 0 economy for Insane AI). I would like it if they actually just expanded and transitioned into a mid game plan. EDIT: Insane Zerg AI is a joke, not that hard to beat. Protoss is possible if you are at least diamond, but Terran is really difficult to beat without cheesing or abusing AI. They do expand... a lot, 15 minutes in they'll have 4 bases a lot of times, it's just their openings that seems so stupid, b/c of the mineral hack and the artificial part of their "intelligence" | ||
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Parakelsos
12 Posts
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
They backed up, I took my expo (with plenty of bunkers) and went into a biomech build with lots of tanks | ||
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wonderwall
New Zealand695 Posts
"The AI does not cheat" -Blizzard I thought it was common knowledge that the A.I simply harvests more minerals per worker trip on A.I difficulty. Was this just an urban myth? | ||
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pretensile
135 Posts
On March 16 2011 13:08 TheKillers wrote: when i did the insane FFA, i moved to an island and massed BCs and they didnt have any decent army when I attacked. definitely not the mass vikings that everyone's saying. they didnt scout me on the island once, i couldve sat there for 10 years and it wouldve been fine. Edit: my point is, they dont maphack, or at least they didnt for me. The key word there is "FFA" -- in free-for-alls, the AIs are too busy killing each other to focus solely on countering your unit compositions, the way they would in a 1v1. | ||
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nalgene
Canada2153 Posts
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Sevenofnines
United States167 Posts
The Zerg AI is the stupidest and will constantly attack you with Roaches, Hydras, Lings, and some Banelings. Your mass of tanks will easily annihilate that while you mass up BC's. For the Protoss AI, mix in a couple ghosts to EMP Immortals, and have a small subgroup of Tanks on a different control group that you can use to focus fire Collossi. Mass up BC's in the meantime and win. Terran AI is by far the hardest. They transition to air faster than the other AI's, and they have tanks of their own which can become problematic. Build sensor towers so that you can see attacks coming and be sure to scan prematurely so you have vision. Have the same subgroup of tanks on another control group that you micro to focus fire their tanks down. Mass up BC's and attack when you have 3/3 and plenty of Yamato energy. The AI doesn't know how to kite, so you can take on any Vikings they build. Once you kill all their Starports and they cannot rebuild anything that can really kill BC's. | ||
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KillerPlague
United States1386 Posts
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spicykorean
United States7 Posts
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Nooble1145
2 Posts
Athene beats 3 terran insane AI's 1v3 | ||
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nitdkim
1264 Posts
On March 17 2011 04:36 Nooble1145 wrote: http://www.movielol.org/downl.php?file=Athene3v1InsaneTerran.SC2Replay Athene beats 3 terran insane AI's 1v3 in his new vid, he beats 4 AI's tvtttt | ||
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Trang
Australia324 Posts
TvZ: You can do almost anything. I've won doing 1 rax expand into pure marine/medivac, I've won with 1 rax expand into marine/tank/medivac. I've won with seige tank expand into blue flame hellion/tank. You don't really have to worry about zerg air units in TvZ. TvP: I win most consistently with marine/tank, but I have also won with hellion/tank (heavy on the tanks). Edit: And you have to do this while working out the timings when you can expand aggressively. You also must keep marines/hellions patrolling around at potential expos, so that you can deny expos. | ||
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TeddyFurious
United States7 Posts
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stalking.d00m
213 Posts
On March 17 2011 11:59 TeddyFurious wrote: Any of you guys ]Notice the capability for the Ai to learn from previous games? No, can you post a proof? I personally think that SC-II AI is well below average. So many games have better AI without cheating. Soase had an darn good AI even in no cheat difficulties, company of heroes,theater of war also had an kickass AI while on the other hand SC-II is cakewalk on anything less than 'Insane' at which it openly starts to cheat. | ||
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FakeDouble
Australia676 Posts
do you consider medivac drops as abusing ai also? | ||
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Skez
United States46 Posts
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
For terran, I might just bunker and siege and some choke points and let the dumb AI run right into it, while struggling to get lots of bases. Toss vs AI is a bit of a hassle. I suppose you can expand a lot and then draw tons of probes into the fight to win. Beating AI is rather easy lol...I wonder when Blizzard is going to teach the AI how to base trade. | ||
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xHassassin
United States270 Posts
Siege tanks. Win. | ||
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CellTech
Canada396 Posts
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HoodedAvatar
Canada115 Posts
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solistus
United States172 Posts
The AI is mostly there for newbies learning the absolute basics of the game, like how to build stuff. Insane AI is kinda pointless - it's far too dumb to be an interesting challenge to a decent player, but it cheats enough to overwhelm you if you try to play "standard." The only thing you learn by playing the Insane AI is how to abuse the AI. There is no aspect of the game where the AI's decision-making is anywhere near good enough to simulate a skilled opponent and give you useful practice. Insane adds the silly mineral boost which further makes any comparisons between that game and an actual multiplayer game shaky at best. You're using tricks that shouldn't work to overcome enemy macro that shouldn't be possible. | ||
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oGm`REM
United States870 Posts
On March 22 2011 16:11 HoodedAvatar wrote: if only athenewins could beat a human player instead of AI... lol Try playing him in Player vs Player on WoW. | ||
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Wezz
United States5 Posts
The fact that Insane AI is ungodly haxor is just pointless. Wouldn't it make more sense for Blizzard to incorporate 3-4 of the most standard builds for each race and give them an APM of like 400 or something? To reflect your basic plat player? Even "Very Hard" is laughably easy, and I'm a bronze player saying that. And beating the AI 1000 times over for an achievement? (Or is it 800? Too fucking many regardless) Sounds like Blizzard is just trying to make money off time sinking.... oh wait...WoW.... never mind. | ||
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IzieBoy
United States865 Posts
The AI as it is kinda makes me mad lol. I mean there's a lot of advantages an AI has over a human player already. No "bumps" as Day9 puts it. You can have the smoothest build order ever. Never forgetting to build one scv exactly after one finishes. And the human factors like drops harrass and surround is really not like hard code to implement. Especially since the AI has maphack. I think a good AI would have at least uber good micro as each unit knows how to be the most effective. But anyways maybe I am just mad from my own personal experience, cuz training against comps literally was unhelpful in real PvP, gave me a false sense of achievement, when i literally fell in a hole rank-wise that i rather buy out of than play the 20 or more games. Wait... I think i see where Blizzard maybe going here. There is absolutely nothing instructive to gain from the AI versus. No mechanics, no Broodwar-esque micro, just kinda-like playing against two players who only do one-base simult push with the single APM of attack+click. The missions were pretty fun though. | ||
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Sajuuk7
134 Posts
You get nothing but pointless points. Think of it more as a tracker of games, not progress. How can you learn nothing from playing against the AI? Every single game you play you learn more about the game. No two games are the same, even if you win easily. Trying new builds against the AI is better than trying it against nothing. You cry about everything you have. So spoiled... | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
Bring the discussion to youtube, sport. Tank marine medivac battlecruiser with ups would be my way of doing it. As far as I can tell, the AI does a 180% if you attack their base while on the move with their army,so you can delay pushes really well. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
i like the repairing worker focus of the insane ai ^^ looks so funny. other then that no ai is really good as they are unable to deal with turtling. of course games that force aggressiv gamestyles makes it easier to create a game, like the ones with control points and stuff like dawn of war. Since playing the reason of the ai is fun and not a clever opponent. (otherwise you would play a turtling ai all the time) | ||
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Gaspa
Brazil109 Posts
They actually extract 5 minerals out of the patch, and deliver 7 to base. So each mineral field yields 7/5 times more minerals for them than they should. Also. Of course there's the instantaneous and near perfectly split to the 6 closest mineral patches, inhuman, but that's what I'd program an AI to do... And YES they have maphack, try building anything inside their base but out of vision, they react instantly. Essencially, they can't be beaten by playing a normal game. If you want to learn a way to play the match that doesn't look cheesy, go for it, should be good practice (not the best, but good nonetheless). I'd rather just cheese the hell out of the AI. It's a "less good" practice, but it is practice and takes less than 5 minutes to get a win. (long) Edit: Seeing the athene replay against 3 insane AI's I have to reply @ whoever said they perfectly counter your units. You had a guy massing nothing but tanks and 3 AI's using only ground forces and flying units that can't shoot ground. I have to assume there's some luck involved in this, I mean, sometimes the AI "forgets" about banshees and BCs and you can get a win with just the tanks. As for the drops, if you have a dropship around (but not inside) their base, they don't take it out unless it's in "true" sight. You can exploit the AI with fake drops, not really doing anything of it, just drop, pick up and move back out. So I guess the maphack isn't used to its full potential. Could be, though. I get the feeling they have a threshold to respond to threats inside the base, not elsewhere. I would much prefer an AI that doesn't cheat with minerals or maphack but scouts and knows how to counter your army. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
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Raysalis
Malaysia1034 Posts
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cari-kira
Germany655 Posts
what do you learn from this? only when you know how a chese works, you can effectively deny it. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
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KaRath_
Australia245 Posts
On March 28 2011 09:47 Jakkerr wrote: lol ^^ its insanely easy to beat an insane terran by cannon rushing as toss, he completely bugs out :D He's asking how to dot it TvT, though cannon rushing does work ^^ But the only way to defeat an Insane AI is to defeat the initial timing push then outmacro the insane AI. Once you outmacro and start pumping out the tanks and MMM bioball while fending off the attacks, a slow push forward will definitely win. | ||
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SnipedSoul
Canada2158 Posts
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johlar
Sweden165 Posts
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Purind
Canada3562 Posts
On March 28 2011 08:15 cari-kira wrote: the point of beating the insane AI is learning to perfect "cheese" and win the game in the first 5 mins. what do you learn from this? only when you know how a chese works, you can effectively deny it. The problem is that cheese vs insane AI is different from cheese vs humans. Building a depot/pylon in their base to pull workers? 6 drone scouting and constantly building extractors to pull workers? OK the extractor one might work against a bad opponent, but the depot/pylon thing is just bizarre You're not 7RR'ing an insane AI... lol On March 24 2011 09:33 Wezz wrote: And beating the AI 1000 times over for an achievement? (Or is it 800? Too fucking many regardless) Sounds like Blizzard is just trying to make money off time sinking.... oh wait...WoW.... never mind. Just to clarify, it's 100 for 1v1. Totally reasonable and do-able (though still a waste). 250 for coop, which is very time consuming. 800 is for FFA, and 1k is for 1v1/teamgame achievements | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
Start making BC's. Lots and lots of them. Kill off your own BCs using marines, make a ton of marauders. Walk your marauders to his base. See 30 vikings to counter the BCs you killed yourself. LOL. Win. | ||
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