On December 18 2010 06:10 FirstPanzerDiv wrote: When we were all 13 and playing sc1, we had less expectations for stories and complexities. Now that we're older, we have a quaint nostalgia for sc1 and dislike the 'cheesiness' of the sc2 plot.
Really none of the blizzard stories are great, but that's okay... the campaign will still be fun.
People need to stop saying this. It's not that the older games had amazing stories - it's the fact that WoL's story was not only terrible, but more importantly the delivery (script, voice acting), was terrible as well.
The difference between a complainer and a critic is reasoning. Mind you that I'm only asking because of curiosity and I no longer care enough for the series to reply in essay length detail.
On December 18 2010 06:10 FirstPanzerDiv wrote: When we were all 13 and playing sc1, we had less expectations for stories and complexities. Now that we're older, we have a quaint nostalgia for sc1 and dislike the 'cheesiness' of the sc2 plot.
Really none of the blizzard stories are great, but that's okay... the campaign will still be fun.
Eh, Ive replayed the SC1 and WC3 campaigns several times and they just do not have any moments that are as cringe worthy as, for instance, the random bar fight between Tychus and Raynor, nor is the plot so completely disconnected from itself (you learn Tychus has a bomb strapped to himself halfway through the campaign, and yet do nothing whatsoever about it? the Hansen/Hanson whatever sideplot has no consequences at all etc).
As I said before, I guess the fact that SC2 looks so damn good now leads to higher expectations in the storyteling - theres way less room to make complete cheese when its a bunch of talking heads in a briefing room. And for WC3, well, its fantasy so even tho things get cheesy at times it fits better IMO, and its not the same kind of cheese either.
oh my... contrast this to what Valve have been doing since HL2, especially with regards to story and dialogue. Blizzard seriously needs to hire some new talent.
I would really put HL2 as an example of storytelling, the game has an AMAZING ambientation, but in regards to storytelling theres not much to be found, is just that the pace an ambientation make up really well for the "lack" of plot.
On December 18 2010 16:05 skindzer wrote: I would really put HL2 as an example of storytelling, the game has an AMAZING ambientation, but in regards to storytelling theres not much to be found, is just that the pace an ambientation make up really well for the "lack" of plot.
hl2 uses ambient story telling. theres actually a huge storyline there. you just have to open your eyes and see it.
the game doesn't throw the entire story at you in narrative/huge cutscenes. you're supposed to discover it yourself.
"Tell me Freeman, you have destroyed so much... what exactly is that you think youve created?" (I probably butchered the hell out of the quote just now) Much <3 for Doc Breen. It is a pity that HL hasn't had a decent antagonist since his death, and I'm hoping for Glados to cross over from the portal series to take Breens place. I know what the wiki said about the timeline of Glados making it impossible, but bringing Glados into HL would be totally worth the retconning imo.
On December 18 2010 19:45 nihoh wrote: COD4 Storytelling should be something BLizzard tries to follow.
Wait, what?
You can't just say that Blizzard should follow a dumb FPS game when they are making an RTS. >_<
If CoD4 is the equivalent of a relatively dumb but very well-made action movie (which I think it is), then SC2 is the equivalent of a half-assed Disney movie (and SC is the equivalent of a medium-budget sci-fi).
I do think SC had a better story overall, but I also think that this isn't what makes SC2 horrible. It's simply the execution. Almost every line of dialogue in SC2 made me cringe.
Maybe I'm completely off here, but aren't the writers of SC2 just native Blizzard people who never actually learned how to write stuff? Wikipedia says Chris Metzen is the writer, but from his career it seems that he has a background in graphics design. This could explain why the story and dialogues of SC2 look like they were written by an enthusiastic high-schooler: the writer does have the writing qualifications of an enthusiastic high-schooler. In my opinion they should hire some outside talent to try and salvage what's left of the SC universe, before it irreversibly turns into World of Disneycraft.
On December 18 2010 12:13 Liquid`Jinro wrote: As I said before, I guess the fact that SC2 looks so damn good now leads to higher expectations in the storyteling - theres way less room to make complete cheese when its a bunch of talking heads in a briefing room.
While it's true that SC1 had a more appropriate way of delivering the story (dialogue in the briefing room), I think it also did a better job with the cutscenes as well.
In SC2 the cutscenes are just ridiculous... there's one where mutalisks are flying through space, because Blizz decided they needed to shoehorn in an "epic" space battle, than there's that other one where Jim and Tychus *appear* on Valarian's capital ship (how they boarded it, we'll never know...) with opera music playing and not one but twocliched close-ups of the grenade Raynor throws. And you of course already mentioned the random bar fight.
The cutscenes in SC2 were done in bad taste. SC1's were much better, and not because they had lower expectations, but because they were better thought out and directed. Take this one for example, it's probably the most linked SC cutscene, but w/e, it deserves to be it's just that awesome:Awesome Cutscene!!!
If SC2 had just remade SC1's cutscenes with better graphics, I'd be happy. Sadly we got the Frankenstein monster created by Chris Metzen himself. sigh.
Wait, how could Arcturus have a shocker thing implanted by Kerrigan? There's a mission in sc1 where Kerrigan removes all the neural blockage that was implanted in her when she was a ghost. You're telling me they didn't remove a lethal failsafe mechanism??
And actually, why didn't arcturus use this at the end of the brood war campaign? Arcturus clearly wanted her dead, and now we learn that this could have easily happened? Or hell, even during the WoL campaign. Why would Tychus be involved at all if Arcturus had a failsafe!? And why would Arcturus implant a failsafe into Kerrigan??! She's was a ghost, so she had neural thingies to make her more obedient already!!
No, I don't like this. This just adds more plotholes. And yet, it doesn't actually seem to affect the story (as raynor comes in immediately anyway). Why did they add more plotholes for no narrative reason???!! I DON"T UNDERSTAND!!!
I like chris metzen. He very skilled at his job, and he is responsible for tons of the creative department over at Blizzard. So why is he making this so haaard???
On December 18 2010 12:13 Liquid`Jinro wrote: As I said before, I guess the fact that SC2 looks so damn good now leads to higher expectations in the storyteling - theres way less room to make complete cheese when its a bunch of talking heads in a briefing room.
While it's true that SC1 had a more appropriate way of delivering the story (dialogue in the briefing room), I think it also did a better job with the cutscenes as well. In SC2 the cutscenes are just ridiculous... there's one where mutalisks are flying through space, because Blizz decided they needed to shoehorn in an "epic" space battle, than there's that other one where Jim and Tychus *appear* on Valarian's capital ship (how they boarded it, we'll never know...) with opera music playing and not one but twocliched close-ups of the grenade Raynor throws. And you of course already mentioned the random bar fight.
The cutscenes in SC2 were done in bad taste. SC1's were much better, and not because they had lower expectations, but because they were better thought out and directed. Take this one for example, it's probably the most linked SC cutscene, but w/e, it deserves to be it's just that awesome:Awesome Cutscene!!!
If SC2 had just remade SC1's cutscenes with better graphics, I'd be happy. Sadly we got the Frankenstein monster created by Chris Metzen himself. sigh.
You seem to get irritated quite easily. Did it annoy that mutilisks were "flapping through space" over the oribital platforms in SC1 too? If not, well congratulations... Your standards have clearly gone up since then. Can't imagine someone as logic focused as you enjoying BW.
Edit: There were at least a dozen unanswered questions about the UED, and it's hard to imagine any satisfactory answers for their arrival in the BW sector. Just found a nice long essay describing these shortcomings in detail and supported them with some solid reasons, but I wouldn't want to spoil your fun by pointing them out to you.
Blizzard should do a reverse story-line campaign for HOTS. No one said the intro was leaked right? The campaign should play out like Memento, you see the ending first, and play missions in reverse order to find out how you got to that ending. Would be neat.
On December 18 2010 12:13 Liquid`Jinro wrote: As I said before, I guess the fact that SC2 looks so damn good now leads to higher expectations in the storyteling - theres way less room to make complete cheese when its a bunch of talking heads in a briefing room.
While it's true that SC1 had a more appropriate way of delivering the story (dialogue in the briefing room), I think it also did a better job with the cutscenes as well. In SC2 the cutscenes are just ridiculous... there's one where mutalisks are flying through space, because Blizz decided they needed to shoehorn in an "epic" space battle, than there's that other one where Jim and Tychus *appear* on Valarian's capital ship (how they boarded it, we'll never know...) with opera music playing and not one but twocliched close-ups of the grenade Raynor throws. And you of course already mentioned the random bar fight.
The cutscenes in SC2 were done in bad taste. SC1's were much better, and not because they had lower expectations, but because they were better thought out and directed. Take this one for example, it's probably the most linked SC cutscene, but w/e, it deserves to be it's just that awesome:Awesome Cutscene!!!
If SC2 had just remade SC1's cutscenes with better graphics, I'd be happy. Sadly we got the Frankenstein monster created by Chris Metzen himself. sigh.
You seem to get irritated quite easily. Did it annoy that mutilisks were "flapping through space" over the oribital platforms in SC1 too? If not, well congratulations... Your standards have clearly gone up since then.
Edit: and don't even get me started on the huge list of logistical shortcomings of BW. Just found a nice long essay describing these shortcomings in detail and supported them with some solid reasons, but I wouldn't want to spoil your fun by pointing them out to you.
Billy whenever I make a post about my dissatisfaction w/ SC2's "story" you always reply asking if I'm mad, and then allege that you wrote some essay about SC1's alleded flaws. Well that hypothetical essay doesn't matter to me, all I know is that while playing SC2 mutalisks were flying through deep space in a cutscene. If you think it's cool or epic to see that, that's your prerogative, as for me I think it's an insult to my intelligence and a cheap excuse for blizz to add a space battle cutscene.
You think SC1 had the same thing? I don't, the orbital platforms in SC1 were just that: in orbit, they were not in deep space. Furthermore that example happened in-game, not in a cutscene, things in-game are expected to be abstract. And lastly, I don't believe there was ever a story mission in SC1 where you fought zerg on a space platform - I remember stealing the Dominion's battlecruisers, destroying Mengsk's nuclear silo's, capturing the Confederacy's space station, but I do not ever recall engaging the zerg on an orbital platform.
On December 09 2010 10:49 Jibba wrote: Chris Metzen is the Stephanie Meyers of video games.
What's next, a dwarf shaman?
I think it's even worse when you consider his early work. Look through the elaborate Warcraft II manual, the art and story are so intricately dark and morose.
If you think it's cool or epic to see that, that's your prerogative
I didn't, and this has nothing to do with what I think of WoL SC has always been terrible at logic. If you only just realised that now with WoL, then try going back to BW and keep a keen eye on all of the details. Pay special attention to the final few missions of the UED and toss parts. You forgot that kerrigan defended the Protoss from the Zerg on the platform over Tarsonis
There is a bare-minimum that a story/plot has to be at to be respectable. They can raise the bar for graphics, audio, cinematics, gameplay, features, and extras all they want but the story still has to be at that baseline or higher. The fact is: WoL was beneath that line.
Sure, it would have been nice if after 12 years it was way, way above that line but they couldn't even make a respectable showing of it. Add in the non-linear elements, the pointless side missions with zero consequences, and ruining or retcon-ing SC1/BW to do it and the players have every right to give a "What the fuck?" response to WoL, and follow it up with a "Jesus fucking christ" to their announcement they had no planning and will play it by ear for HotS and Legacy of the Void.
The story for all 3 should have been the first thing done, multi-player unit planning (again for all 3) should have been a close second. Then the game should have been built around that. The serious disconnect between single<->multi player units for WoL alone does not bode well for the future. Medics, firebats, vultures, goliaths, diamondbacks, wraiths, science vessels, oh my.
On December 18 2010 12:13 Liquid`Jinro wrote: As I said before, I guess the fact that SC2 looks so damn good now leads to higher expectations in the storyteling - theres way less room to make complete cheese when its a bunch of talking heads in a briefing room.
While it's true that SC1 had a more appropriate way of delivering the story (dialogue in the briefing room), I think it also did a better job with the cutscenes as well. In SC2 the cutscenes are just ridiculous... there's one where mutalisks are flying through space, because Blizz decided they needed to shoehorn in an "epic" space battle, than there's that other one where Jim and Tychus *appear* on Valarian's capital ship (how they boarded it, we'll never know...) with opera music playing and not one but twocliched close-ups of the grenade Raynor throws. And you of course already mentioned the random bar fight.
The cutscenes in SC2 were done in bad taste. SC1's were much better, and not because they had lower expectations, but because they were better thought out and directed. Take this one for example, it's probably the most linked SC cutscene, but w/e, it deserves to be it's just that awesome:Awesome Cutscene!!!
If SC2 had just remade SC1's cutscenes with better graphics, I'd be happy. Sadly we got the Frankenstein monster created by Chris Metzen himself. sigh.
You seem to get irritated quite easily. Did it annoy that mutilisks were "flapping through space" over the oribital platforms in SC1 too? If not, well congratulations... Your standards have clearly gone up since then.
Edit: and don't even get me started on the huge list of logistical shortcomings of BW. Just found a nice long essay describing these shortcomings in detail and supported them with some solid reasons, but I wouldn't want to spoil your fun by pointing them out to you.
Billy whenever I make a post about my dissatisfaction w/ SC2's "story" you always reply asking if I'm mad, and then allege that you wrote some essay about SC1's alleded flaws. Well that hypothetical essay doesn't matter to me, all I know is that while playing SC2 mutalisks were flying through deep space in a cutscene. If you think it's cool or epic to see that, that's your prerogative, as for me I think it's an insult to my intelligence and a cheap excuse for blizz to add a space battle cutscene.
You think SC1 had the same thing? I don't, the orbital platforms in SC1 were just that: in orbit, they were not in deep space. Furthermore that example happened in-game, not in a cutscene, things in-game are expected to be abstract. And lastly, I don't believe there was ever a story mission in SC1 where you fought zerg on a space platform - I remember stealing the Dominion's battlecruisers, destroying Mengsk's nuclear silo's, capturing the Confederacy's space station, but I do not ever recall engaging the zerg on an orbital platform.
Start at about 5.20.
And the very last mission of Brood Way, Omega.
I agree with you, the story was terrible, I'm just pointing out that "Mutalisks in space" has been an issue for the past 12 years.
EPT
