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Brutal NUR, Marine only - Page 6

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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kindle139
Profile Joined September 2010
United States128 Posts
October 08 2010 01:43 GMT
#101
good job! though these videos would be better if you edited out the reloads, imo
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
October 08 2010 02:27 GMT
#102
On October 08 2010 10:43 kindle139 wrote:
good job! though these videos would be better if you edited out the reloads, imo


I did a bit on engine of destruction, but then just gave up on it later, I'll now only do that if it's getting too rediculous.
Bub
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States3518 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 03:56:04
October 08 2010 03:55 GMT
#103
Going through all that with your rines in the campaign, I can imagine you beating everything thrown to you in the ladder as T
XK ßubonic
AlCapwn
Profile Joined September 2010
6 Posts
October 08 2010 05:42 GMT
#104
It seems to be very different skills... I'm actually kind of worried about what this will do to my ladder play, because I'm getting too used to ignoring gas and ignoring tech, which is not really sustainable against a half decent player. It works against the AI because with a few exceptions, you can be confident that the computer will never try to overwhelm you with everything he's got, so you can steadily build lines of bunkers towards the goal with no fear of retaliation. That strategy simply isn't viable in multiplayer.
bronzeterran
Profile Joined September 2010
United States296 Posts
October 08 2010 07:21 GMT
#105
Nice job in Utter Darkness. Your best work yet imo.

"easy"
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
October 08 2010 10:07 GMT
#106
Just finished Gates of Hell and Shatter the Sky

I will be seeing how All in with nydus is first, I may go back and do belly of the beast to try the air version later.
Shatter the Sky showed just how effective marines can be vs zerg T3 if microed correctly.

Hopefully my 1000 post can be saved for a MISSION COMPLETE in the next few days!
Tohron
Profile Joined April 2010
United States135 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-08 17:57:37
October 08 2010 17:54 GMT
#107
Did you complete Maw of the Void yet?

EDIT: Didn't see you did it before the Protoss missions.
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
October 09 2010 05:35 GMT
#108
Hmm, are you going to finish missions like Heaven's Fall, and Ghost of a Chance? I realize GoaC isn't any different from regular brutal, you are just not listing it in the OP.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-09 07:14:03
October 09 2010 07:13 GMT
#109
All in shouldnt be impossible. Well it might be, but kerrigan won't be the problem. 20 marines kill kerrigan no problem, even when she has the storm. Marines are actually my prefered method of dealing with her. Of course I did have stim but sucks to be you I guess.
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 14:08:54
October 13 2010 14:03 GMT
#110
Unfortunately my 1000th post is not a report of my victory, but I figured I should come by to update on my progress.

I began working with All-In Nydus. What I found out with my initial research is upsetting. While all of the regular zerg attacks are 100% reliable and predictable, the nydus worms are not. If you save before a nydus worm wave or a kerrigan wave, see where they spawn/which direction she goes, and then reload the save, they will spawn in different locations and she can choose the different path.
What this means is that my initial plan of having 10-15 marines at each nydus spawn as it happens is MUCH more difficult to pull off. I also found that nydus worms are unable to spawn where there's a building or unit (situational evidence that the worms never destroy buildings or push units out of the way when they spawn). What I now need to work out, is if a nydus is blocked by a worm, does it fail to spawn, or choose a different location? If it fails to spawn, I've found an easy and surefire way of controlling them. If they spawn in a different location instead, then it is the most difficult situation.
I also believe that the nydus spawn locations are fixed, but that there are simply a relatively large number of them. This is something I will need to test by mapping out all of the nydus worm locations to the square, and see if there are consistancies game to game.
In the case that they have fixed spawn locations, and fail to spawn if they are blocked, then I can block as many locations as possible, and reload my save until I get a managable number of them at once.
If they simply always choose spawn locations that are not blocked, then I will need to have packs of units at as many spots as I can without spreading thin, and then reload until they spawn at those spots.

Another thing I noticed with the Nydus worms, though i will need to look again more closely to be sure of numbers, is that there are always ~3 nydus outside your base, and 1 inside, on each spawn wave.


I then gave all-in air a try, during which time I believe I have perfected my wall-ins, which will help a lot if I swap back to Nydus.
No more then 1 broodlord comes from the back, and the mutas always arrive well in advance, allowing 3 turrets and 1 BC that heads down 20 seconds in advance, enough to hold the back.
The mutalisk waves really thin the herd of marines each time, while not immediately noticable, it was notably harder to hit the 200/200 mark then it was in the Nydus varient. BCs are bad at killing broodlords without using yammato. My original plan was to kite in as many as I could, and then yammato the rest; this plan appears to be impossible, as even before the leviathan comes out, I am fighting waves that include 6 purple broodlords, between a kerrigan push and an orange muta wave soon after.

While over-all more controllable, the air varient simply causes far too much attrition to be sustainable, especially once the leviathan comes out.

In conclusion I believe the Nydus varient will indeed be the way to go, and success will hinge on whether I will be able to control the worms in some way, or not.

The deadliest threat I have yet to find a good response to other then using the nova, is the Hunter Killer's that come with Kerrigan. They 3 shot marines (no combat shield) and have 1 base armour (zerg stays ahead in upgs, so until lvl 3, marines do 4 damage a shot to them) and any tanks or BCs that come within range of kerrigan INSTANTLY get one-shot by her one-shotting ability. whenever I come through a kerrigan wave without using the nova it is with extreme extreme losses.


My hairbrained plan for the nydus worms, if they work like I hope, is to clear the areas around where they can spawn with the banshees so there's no creep, and then start construction on bunkers in as many spots as I can (if it requires a building, just run a marine there otherwise) and then cancel them all (salvage any I have the luxery to complete, but this is not likely)
Any spots that I can't get due to other zerg present, I'll have the banshees and maybe the BCs there and ready to kill any that spawn, hopefully cutting it off before the hydra wave comes out.

TLDR I will be continueing whole haul on all-in Nydus with a new simcity since I last tried it, and a new plan for the nydus worms.


I also made it to 1100 diamond playing zerg in the ladder, though i have about 300+ bonus pool I'm still eating through, I'll have enough time to mass-game it once I beat this challenge run!

Edit: I realise some people may want to know %s
55% is the furthest I've gotten, though the combined waves on All-in Air crush me at this point.
I was not keeping track of %s for nydus, as it was mostly research, no hardcore attempts yet (ballpark 40%)
Thunderflesh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States382 Posts
October 13 2010 14:29 GMT
#111
Shiladie hwaiting!

Good luck man, I'm looking forward to seeing the video of you pulling this off.
You'll worry less about what people think about you when you realize how seldom they do.
Dinn
Profile Joined May 2010
United States66 Posts
October 13 2010 15:14 GMT
#112
Does no upgrade mean you can't get upgrades from the engineering bay?
Drunken.Jedi
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany446 Posts
October 13 2010 16:59 GMT
#113
On October 14 2010 00:14 Dinn wrote:
Does no upgrade mean you can't get upgrades from the engineering bay?

No, it means no upgrades from the Armory (the one on the Hyperion, not the one you can build in the game) and no reasearch from the reasearch console.
iMAniaC
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway703 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-13 18:38:43
October 13 2010 18:38 GMT
#114
If the nydus worms don't spawn where there's buildings, you could try to fill up your whole base area with supply depots (which you can lower so that they won't hinder your movement), spaced one square apart (possibly two, if it still shuts out the nydus worms), so that there's no room for the nydus worm to dig through without destroying any buildings. Alternately, you could leave a couple of areas unbuilt, so that you'll "force" the nydus worms to spawn in roughly the same place each time.

Are you allowed to open the maps in the editor to check how the triggers are? I haven't done that, so it won't be cheating if I continue to speculate

Anyway, the nydus worms might be programmed to spawn at a random point in certain regions, and if there are several regions which overlap, there might be good or bad spots to leave unbuilt, in order force a single spawn point instead of one for each area. When I played through All in, I remember having the nydus worms mostly spawn by the cliff by the artifact, so that might be a good spot to leave unbuilt, possibly being an overlap area for several areas in your base. Keep in mind, though, I only played through All in on Normal...

And if you want to save money, you could possibly fill your base with tech labs instead of supply depots, as they're cheaper...

Oh, and awesome project!
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 13:25:05
October 14 2010 13:24 GMT
#115
It seems I was too quick to jump the gun on the fact that the spawns are random every load of a save, it seems there are a few things that can 'cause' a spawn to be different, but if nothing changes, it will spawn in the same location. This allows for some pre-positioning of troops at nydus worms as they spawn, but with some random elements as well.

If a worm is blocked, either by unit or building, it will simply shift where it spawns until it finds a spot to spawn within it's spawn zone. (this means if you drop a building where it will spawn, it will instead spawn right next to that building)

As far as I can tell there are 4-5 spawn zones fot the nydus worms, with I believe the number spawning in each zone being set per wave.
There is at the very least a distinction between in-base and outside of base.

Over the course of a run on casual I gathered these results. While there is some varience with what I believe to be a low random chance that a designated outside worm spawns on the artifact highground these are fairly consistant:
0-50% 1 inside 2 outside
50-75% 1 inside 3 outside
one wave at around 85 was 2 inside 4 outside
all waves after that were 1 inside 4 outside
after 95% worms continually spawn on the artifact highground until 100%


Other info I gathered:
All events were 100% predictable for what artifact % they occured at, this includes all nydus waves, all kerrigan waves, and the overlord invasion.
Each % takes 18 seconds of game time, totalling the nice 30 minute total game time for 100%
The artifact can nova roughly every 12.5%
Hydras cut apart marines if the marines are stuck behind a wall, as only a few marines can attack at a time. Zerglings cut apart marines if there is no wall
Siege tanks out-range kerrigan's one-shot spell, but only by a small amount.
kerrigan will not use her one-shot spell on medics mauraders marines or SCVs
at 50% a wave of banelings comes
Ultralisks don't come until after 75%
TheFinalWord
Profile Joined May 2010
Australia790 Posts
October 14 2010 13:52 GMT
#116
I swear ultralisks come a lot earlier on brutal.
Ritesh
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom24 Posts
October 14 2010 13:58 GMT
#117
Is there a way for us to try the all in NUR MO without having to redo the whole campaign again? i mean like using a save game or something? I doubt it but i thought i would ask before I give this a go sometime later.
Tohron
Profile Joined April 2010
United States135 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-14 18:01:35
October 14 2010 16:13 GMT
#118
Maybe you should be testing this on Brutal with terribleterribledamage on rather than Casual, to make sure you have the timings right. Also, perhaps Bunkers would work against both Zerglings & Hydras (with a possible wall in front of the Bunkers)?

EDIT: Also, a semi-wild idea: have you considered setting up a bunker teleporter between the two sides of your base - then you could position all your marines at the entrance and 'teleport' them elsewhere if the need arises.
loladin
Profile Joined October 2010
Norway184 Posts
October 14 2010 16:21 GMT
#119
Shiladie,

what if you structure your buildings in the base so that there isn't room for a nydus to spawn, build turrets, tech lab addons, ect. They need room to spawn, don't they? on the high ground where there are lots and lots of nydus worms at the end, you could just fill it all with bunkers. Make room so that your can funnel your marines back and forth though.

No idea if this will work or not, but at least you wouldn't have the worms inside your base.
When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.
Shiladie
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1631 Posts
October 15 2010 01:02 GMT
#120
On October 15 2010 01:21 loladin wrote:
Shiladie,

what if you structure your buildings in the base so that there isn't room for a nydus to spawn, build turrets, tech lab addons, ect. They need room to spawn, don't they? on the high ground where there are lots and lots of nydus worms at the end, you could just fill it all with bunkers. Make room so that your can funnel your marines back and forth though.

No idea if this will work or not, but at least you wouldn't have the worms inside your base.


I did a test where I filled my base with bunkers and such, it shunted the worm to where my forces were on the enterences, while this is a possible strat, it took a LOT of money to do so. I still will be building my depots so they get shunted closer to my armies, but it won't be a focus of my strat.


I remembered cheat codes after the fact, I guess since I already have every achievement in there there's no harm in it, I'll probably do a run through with that once before trying for real, just to make sure it's all the same.
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