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On September 20 2010 14:10 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2010 05:13 Dionyseus wrote:
Mass tanks in All-In works well, but the strategy i've seen and used requires the flame turret. I wonder if there's something that can replace the flame turrets and still stay with the NUR. Here's part 1 of the video of the strat: The first time I did All-In I just walled everything with barracks and supply depots. The turrets add DPS to your defenses, but you can do hard walls on both chokes without them if you have to.
The problem I encountered when I tried to wall-in was that without the tank less splash upgrade I decimate my own wall in absolutely no time. Was easier to just use single marines to slow down the waves.
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Just wanted to chime in with some thoughts:
I can't say for sure, but I don't think all-in air is possible. At the very least, I'm certain that all-in nydus and all-in air require two completely different strategies to beat. Broodlords with +3 are a pain in the ass and you need a lot of firepower (vikings most likely) to take them down, which means there's no chance to mass tanks AND marines at the same time. You need a reactor rax constantly pumping marines to deal with kerrigan, because she has some sort of immortal-like shield that limits the damage she can take per hit. There is simply not enough money to do all of this. If you go light on the vikings, the broodlords WILL get shots in on the tanks, which is made worse by tanks splashing themselves on the broodlings. The only way it might be possible is pure 3/3 mm + 3/3 vikings, but you would have to macro like god to pull it off, and dodge kerrigan's storms perfectly.
With all that being said, all in nydus isn't terribly difficult once you know what to do. The first 75-80% is pretty easy, but I did have to load saves twice in the final 20% due to losing banshees stupidly and not being able to kill the nydus worms.
+ Show Spoiler +Two annoying things I discovered after beating it: 1) There is no achievement for beating the campaign with no upgrades/research. 2) Once you beat the campaign, you can't go back to the hyperion, so I can't take screenshots of the lab proving that I didn't use any upgrades. This was my first playthrough, as I just bought the game a week ago, and I had no way of knowing this. All I have to show for it is this screenshot. ![[image loading]](http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5577/allin2.jpg)
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I already did the all in nydus brutal NUR, but I didnt for all in air, so if someone has a save and can provide a link, I will be thankfull for that =)
I cant load my own saves as I had a computer clean.
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On September 21 2010 05:10 city42 wrote:
The only way it might be possible is pure 3/3 mm + 3/3 vikings, but you would have to macro like god to pull it off, and dodge kerrigan's storms perfectly.
Since that composition wouldn't have to worry about tanks splashing a wallin, though, might it be possible to have the marines behind a wall, with some marauders mixed in to help against roaches and ultras?
Also, Kerrigan CAN be EMPed, so if you position a Ghost to do that, you won't need to worry about razor swarms (and incidentally, her "hardened carapace" caps incoming damage at 5).
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On September 21 2010 08:46 Tohron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 05:10 city42 wrote:
The only way it might be possible is pure 3/3 mm + 3/3 vikings, but you would have to macro like god to pull it off, and dodge kerrigan's storms perfectly.
Since that composition wouldn't have to worry about tanks splashing a wallin, though, might it be possible to have the marines behind a wall, with some marauders mixed in to help against roaches and ultras? Also, Kerrigan CAN be EMPed, so if you position a Ghost to do that, you won't need to worry about razor swarms (and incidentally, her "hardened carapace" caps incoming damage at 5).
You'd have to wall in front of the artifact ramps, since most of the waves rally to the artifact itself. This means that the left wall would be massive and difficult to maintain. It might be possible, but I'm done with the campaign for now so someone else will have to test it.
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Mass ghosts is the only viable option that I see against All In Air. I got pissed off at nydus, can't get into the 90% range -_- this is lame. I might take a break.
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On September 21 2010 10:11 Zades wrote:
Mass ghosts is the only viable option that I see against All In Air. I got pissed off at nydus, can't get into the 90% range -_- this is lame. I might take a break.
Would you consider uploading a video of your best attempt thus far? Maybe we could figure out some strategies that could help you out when we see the video.
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On September 21 2010 10:11 Zades wrote:
Mass ghosts is the only viable option that I see against All In Air. I got pissed off at nydus, can't get into the 90% range -_- this is lame. I might take a break.
If you're stuck, I can make a little write-up of the winning strategy.
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On September 21 2010 08:46 Tohron wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 05:10 city42 wrote:
The only way it might be possible is pure 3/3 mm + 3/3 vikings, but you would have to macro like god to pull it off, and dodge kerrigan's storms perfectly.
Since that composition wouldn't have to worry about tanks splashing a wallin, though, might it be possible to have the marines behind a wall, with some marauders mixed in to help against roaches and ultras? Also, Kerrigan CAN be EMPed, so if you position a Ghost to do that, you won't need to worry about razor swarms (and incidentally, her "hardened carapace" caps incoming damage at 5).
Pretty sure EMP doesn't exist in the campaign
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On September 21 2010 10:32 Dionyseus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 10:11 Zades wrote:
Mass ghosts is the only viable option that I see against All In Air. I got pissed off at nydus, can't get into the 90% range -_- this is lame. I might take a break. Would you consider uploading a video of your best attempt thus far? Maybe we could figure out some strategies that could help you out when we see the video.
I didn't record it. I felt that if I record it I'll ran out of disk space before I get anywhere near finishing All In. And I was right on that point. My original plan was to find a viable option and after beating it, do it again with recording.
What I did was barrack wall with marine behind then tanks behind that.
On September 21 2010 11:25 city42 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 10:11 Zades wrote:
Mass ghosts is the only viable option that I see against All In Air. I got pissed off at nydus, can't get into the 90% range -_- this is lame. I might take a break. If you're stuck, I can make a little write-up of the winning strategy.
That would be very helpful ^^
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On September 21 2010 13:04 Lumin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 08:46 Tohron wrote:On September 21 2010 05:10 city42 wrote:
The only way it might be possible is pure 3/3 mm + 3/3 vikings, but you would have to macro like god to pull it off, and dodge kerrigan's storms perfectly.
Since that composition wouldn't have to worry about tanks splashing a wallin, though, might it be possible to have the marines behind a wall, with some marauders mixed in to help against roaches and ultras? Also, Kerrigan CAN be EMPed, so if you position a Ghost to do that, you won't need to worry about razor swarms (and incidentally, her "hardened carapace" caps incoming damage at 5). Pretty sure EMP doesn't exist in the campaign
Yea, I'm very curious how how you managed to EMP with only snipe/cloak/nuke as ghost abilities.
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On September 22 2010 05:30 Zades wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2010 11:25 city42 wrote:On September 21 2010 10:11 Zades wrote:
Mass ghosts is the only viable option that I see against All In Air. I got pissed off at nydus, can't get into the 90% range -_- this is lame. I might take a break. If you're stuck, I can make a little write-up of the winning strategy. That would be very helpful ^^
Aside from scvs, you only need 3 units to do it:
1) Tanks to melt anything that comes near you
2) Marines to deal with kerrigan
3) Banshees to deal with nydus worms
Walls are too difficult to maintain because of splash, so don't bother. What you want to do is set up a huge group of tanks right below the artifact, near where the merc building is.
When you start out, send all your scvs to mine except 2, and use those 2 to build more factories. Unsiege the tanks you start with, and move them and all the infantry back. Get a tech lab on the first factory and on the other 2 when they finish, and begin to pump tanks nonstop. Make sure to upgrade vehicle attack at the armory, and ignore vehicle armor because you're dead anyway if the zerg units start getting in range to hit tanks. You will inevitably lose a tank here and there (often because nydus worms spawn right on the tank line), but you should be able to build the numbers up to at least 24. Destroy the merc building at the start to make more room, and just fill the entire area with mass tanks.
Now, the tanks will easily handle the normal waves and even nydus waves for a short while, but we need to incorporate the other units. Once you're stabilized at the start, get a reactor on your barracks and keep a max queue of marines going. You need to constantly pump marines to have sufficient numbers to deal with kerrigan each time. When she's halfway to the artifact, use the nova and charge at her with the marines. Don't bother with medics because she 1 hit kills marines nayway. Most important of all, do NOT use these marines to fight the waves. Keep them next to your CC until they're needed.
As for banshees, begin to build them at a casual pace when you have the money. You start out with 3, and the BCs are good at taking out the first few nydus worms, so there's no rush. Work your way up to about 12-14 banshees (overkill for the worms but some will die and you won't have time to build more near the end). Just send them out to kill worms whenever they spawn, using cloak if needed.
It will be smooth sailing for the first 75%, but things become chaotic after kerrigan #4. As soon as you get the alert for #4, send 6 scvs up to the artifact but don't build anything yet (she targets them). After disposing of her, create a makeshift 3 barracks wall on both ramps. When the 6 rax get done, pump marines lik crazy from them. The worms spawn uncontrollably near the end, and the idea is to put as much meat as possible between the zerg and the artifact. Don't build any tanks or banshees, they'll all die anyway. As soon as you get the nova up, use it.
When kerrigan #5 spawns, take all your banshees and scvs and charge her. This will buy a few precious seconds before she goes to work on what's left of your forces. No matter what you do, it's going to be close. The mission is just designed that way...a ridiculous number of worms spawn near the end that would decimate any army in seconds. With that said, it won't be a situation where one second decides the outcome. My artifact had barely been hit when I won, and nothing was targeting it at the time, so it would have held out for a good 20 seconds more. Just don't expect a clean victory with a mountain of tanks still remaining at the end, because that's not feasible with no upgrades/research.
One last EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTE: If you do the mission this way, you will lose all the depots at the bottom left. You'll need to preemptively build some early on, because getting supply blocked for any decent stretch of time will be the end.
Sorry if this was a bit all over the place, I'm writing it right before going to bed. Hope it helps!
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I personally think no upgrades vs. Air All-in is impossible. Hell I (sadly) couldn't even do it with upgrades! I redid the campaign and did nydius instead!
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I dealt with the end by unsieging my tanks immediately after my final use of the artifact (at 93%) and moving them to the cliff where the artifact lies to resiege them. I then had a group of marines to deal with Kerrigan the moment my tanks killed the stuff around her. Not sure how well this works without upgrades but I think it'll hold out. The tanks may splash themselves/artifact when attacking the nyduses without the reduced splash armory upgrade but you still should have enough to deal with the end.
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shit your almost there! gl man
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hope he gets it soon. shame that tonyoh had to get his computer cleaned :[
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Wow i finally did the NUR nydus version, with tanks on the low ground, marines waiting on the highground for kerrigan, and 6 banshees to take out nydus worms i was able to do it on my first try (saving and loading after each kerrigan of course lol)
Good luck Zades its hard but not impossible 
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Ok Im also trying to complete the game with no upgrades whatsoever. I did not do a run through of the game before trying this with no upgrades, so Im blindsighted on what comes at me in ever level.
I havent had much of a problem in beating any level as long as you stick to and use the new unit that is offered on that level.
Well now Im on Brutal in All-In and I Cant even get past 50% Artifact charging. Im starting to thing this is impossible, not do-able. Why?
-No stim
-no friendly anti-splash seige tank
-No mind control-tower
Iv tried multiple times and just getting ass whopped.
So is this even possible to beat the way I am doing it? I basically given up at this point unless someone has some proof that it can be done. I kinda wishing I has taken the other path then I would not have to deal with air and gorund defence.
I forgot to mention I took the path were I have to defend agianst air. Thanks.
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On October 10 2010 05:06 Starcraft Killa wrote:
Ok Im also trying to complete the game with no upgrades whatsoever. I did not do a run through of the game before trying this with no upgrades, so Im blindsighted on what comes at me in ever level.
I havent had much of a problem in beating any level as long as you stick to and use the new unit that is offered on that level.
Well now Im on Brutal in All-In and I Cant even get past 50% Artifact charging. Im starting to thing this is impossible, not do-able. Why?
-No stim
-no friendly anti-splash seige tank
-No mind control-tower
Iv tried multiple times and just getting ass whopped.
So is this even possible to beat the way I am doing it? I basically given up at this point unless someone has some proof that it can be done. I kinda wishing I has taken the other path then I would not have to deal with air and gorund defence.
I forgot to mention I took the path were I have to defend agianst air. Thanks.
Someone has done it before, but he did not specify what method he used. So, it definitely isn't impossible but it is extremely hard.
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On October 10 2010 05:06 Starcraft Killa wrote:
Ok Im also trying to complete the game with no upgrades whatsoever. I did not do a run through of the game before trying this with no upgrades, so Im blindsighted on what comes at me in ever level.
I havent had much of a problem in beating any level as long as you stick to and use the new unit that is offered on that level.
Well now Im on Brutal in All-In and I Cant even get past 50% Artifact charging. Im starting to thing this is impossible, not do-able. Why?
-No stim
-no friendly anti-splash seige tank
-No mind control-tower
Iv tried multiple times and just getting ass whopped.
So is this even possible to beat the way I am doing it? I basically given up at this point unless someone has some proof that it can be done. I kinda wishing I has taken the other path then I would not have to deal with air and gorund defence.
I forgot to mention I took the path were I have to defend agianst air. Thanks.
If you want to do nydus instead of air, why not do it? Just load the Gates of Hell victory save and you can choose to take out the mutalisk nests instead of the worms. All-in air is extremely difficult, while all-in nydus is trivial even without upgrades.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/zQHsY.jpg)
