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Hey all,
I too, am having problems w/this ach'ment. My first question is why do some other people have different technology than others? I read some ppl have Vultures and Wraiths, where as I don't even have Marauders 8(. (But I have completed the mission where you first meet Marauders w/all ach'ments). I'm guessing it's the order of planets you go by but nonetheless I know just having Marauders would help, so how can I get them for this?
However, on the contrary I've been getting close w/all out Goliaths and SCVs. I get to the point of 6/7 gasses, but then my force gets overwhelmed by Stalkers/Zealots/Scouts/Void Rays and then I can't recooperate fast enough to stop the 2 Probes sealing 2 spots. (If not paying attention my units go through the middle base and suicide *tear*)
I believe I got close by trying some "Proxy Turrets" and it worked for 1 wave. Maybe if I do some better microing and/or building more Turrets I can get it 8D. Any ideas/suggestions?
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Don't make any goliaths. Make as many medic and marine as you can. About 1 medic for every 2 marines. I hope you have Stimpak and Improved Medpaks. Micro well and none of Protoss units on this map will give you trouble except the few colossus. But trust me, Goliaths are a red herring--don't use them! I recommend you read the whole thread as lots of good advice has been given already, and I followed that advice to succeed.
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Just go mass medic marine with some gols or marauders if you want (but basically alot of medic marine with upgrades, and big spreads against collo). And whenever an altar gets taken you just charge in there and kill the probe and kill the forces.
But not on brutal, the game is way to hard on brutal. Thats why there are no achievements for brutal because its just to friken hard.
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Actually since protoss doesn't throw more than 1 colossus per wave you can still do that achievement on brutal 
The HP upgrade from the first protoss tier is ridiculously good on brutal were everything loves to target your medics and all the ai units come with +1 or +2 weapons
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get the first three down, then take four at once. It's not that tricky, and it means you skip the whole bit where they send fleets at you constantly. your MM ball if you play it right can easily split into four and still hold off all the air on hard.
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Thanks to the quick replies!
On August 05 2010 16:34 Gedrah wrote:
Don't make any goliaths. Make as many medic and marine as you can. About 1 medic for every 2 marines. I hope you have Stimpak and Improved Medpaks. Micro well and none of Protoss units on this map will give you trouble except the few colossus. But trust me, Goliaths are a red herring--don't use them! I recommend you read the whole thread as lots of good advice has been given already, and I followed that advice to succeed.
I'm an old BW veteran at heart. I used to do that Medic:Marine ratio 8P
Anyways, I also did read all the replies and yes they mainly say MM(M) mixtures. To whoever said Marauders for me, again I don't have them and wonder how to get them.
I might have to do this mass Marine/Medic build but I was SO close w/Goliaths. 8(
Lastly: I have Combat Shield/StimPak and "No Techlab for Medics" but no Improved Medpaks. Oh and I have the Bunker Turret (Zerg Research upgrade).
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For this, I just got a group of MM to block the left side, then swing to the right around the time the second altar is being sealed, while building another group of MM. Second group took out the small protoss base in the middle. From there you can reach every altar in time to prevent any sealing of altars.
Continue to mass MM, grab 2-4 altars at once, block a sealing attempt, grab some more gas.
Actually I positioned 2 groups so that I would block everything leaving the protoss base and took 10 altars at once, was quite funny.
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I think the achivements are perfectly possible on brutal.
But with no marauders you will have to micro your marines a bit more, and probably have some sort of backup. 5-6 goliaths with a few SCVs to repair will help you a little if you manage to keep them alive. I would the goliaths for void rays and marines for everything else.
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On August 05 2010 17:37 humblegar wrote:
I think the achivements are perfectly possible on brutal.
But with no marauders you will have to micro your marines a bit more, and probably have some sort of backup. 5-6 goliaths with a few SCVs to repair will help you a little if you manage to keep them alive. I would the goliaths for void rays and marines for everything else.
The first time playing this mission I did kinda go more infantry heavy but got slaughtered by the Colossus. But then again I didn't know the map layout and stuff at that time. Plus I had some bad misclicks and stuff. Newb moves on my part heh.
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With no Marauders you should aim for more like a 3:1 Marine:Medic ratio to up your DPS. Colossus will hurt you in the pants, so make sure you're econ'd up and take the middle base as soon as you have enough forces to get in there and pop the pylons without losing too much. There is a fixed order and timing to the Tal'darim's sealing attempts, so memorize that and you should be just fine. Also, they regularly send the probe ahead of everything else--if you have reapers nearby you will sometimes get a shot at killing the probe before it's even in position.
Void Rays are the major danger, but I found that using just M&M the key was to micro well. Stim-rush up to the deadliest units and target fire them, ignore the stalkers for last because they have the least-granular attack and they're literally incapable of killing upgraded marines with healing support. Scouts have a powerful anti-air attack but versus ground units, they're fairly laughable and can be considered meat shields. When attacking a Colossus, just man up and grab your ankles, you're gonna lose ten marines. Stay away from the cliffs of the Tal'darim main base, the High Templars up there will not hesitate to storm you in the culo.
If your production is solid (I had 5 rax with 3 tech labs and 2 reactors, but I made marines out of the tech labs as well when I was floating minerals) and you keep up with SCVs and supply and get the 1\1 upgrades, your army will simply be too granular and high-dps for most of their units to do anything to you. It's really just the colossus, and that's why you have 5 rax shitting marines out.
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@Gedrah: Alrighty cool, thx. I'll have to try the M&M ball. Ahhhh BW nostalgia haha.
I did actually notice and start to memorize the order of sealing attempts. W/my all Goliath army, I would focus fire the Stalkers first since they did extra dmg. to Armored units then went for the air. (Void Rays after Stalkers if they were there). Along side, I'd have 2 SCVs to repair and then send 1 to gather the gas after it was clear. I got close doing all these and got even closer w/the "Proxy Turret."
However, I didn't try to gather the last 3 gasses at once as ppl have been saying the attack waves come after you harvest, right? AKA: kill all the surrounding units, set up 3 SCVs, then BAM! run home?
Ya know, maybe I'll try both strats and see which one's easier ^.-- Not trying to undermine anyone or anything, just getting tired as it's getting late heh 8\
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On August 04 2010 10:15 Gedrah wrote:Yeah, thanks all, I've got the answers I needed: Goliaths are just not useful at this point in the game, M&M can handle everything, upgrades are key, and Reapers can play the backfield for me if I need them to. Though, upgraded goliaths ended up being absolutely key for me winning All-In on Hard (with air units active) because of their multitasking upgrade and Science Vessel repairing them. + Show Spoiler +Kerrigan made a joke of my Battlecruiser-heavy attempts.
Vikings are better. Broodlords can't attack air units, so vikings can intercept them and kill them off before they can launch a single broodling and beleive me, mutalisks do not like it at all, when they are getting hit by splash damage from 11 range.
You've got 100 damage siege tanks to deal with the enemy ground forces and the spare minerals can be spent on barracks and bunkers to block off the paths.
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I actually got this w/ pure marauder/medic and goliaths
after getting the closest gas can, i pretty much decided against getting the next 6. Instead i opted to mass up while sending smallish groups of marauders to snipe the probe, followed by a few goliaths to pick off any air.
eventually i made routes to all the sites (u can destroy buildings easily w/ marauders) and got really good at stopping all of them. With the 2nd base running as well, I was able to get enough units to cover the top-ish. Then I successfully mined the last 6, all at once. It actually worked out really well XD
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Pure Goliaths work fine for this mission.
On hard, just the first three that you start with are enough to kill the base in the middle, before toss even attacked you. But build one more and attack with four instead to make it easier. Lure the two stalkers out one by one, then kill the cannon. A void ray and another stalker will come at you while you fight the cannon or the pylon, pull back when they do and kill them easily. Remember to pull back your unit that is getting damaged. Bring 1 SCV to repair while you fight or after that, while you are killing his probes and nexus.
Keep building Goliaths off one fac, you probably need just 6-8 of them until you expand in the center, then build 5 more factories. And start massing them. You should be quickly above 120 food with Goliaths, and you can wipe the whole map clean. There are two paths at the top from which the AIs will attack you, so just split your forces and camp both places.
An important thing is to not bother with harvesting the terazine at all, just prevent the toss from it. If you try to harvest it, you will trigger attacks, costing you units, making the game harder - better save that up for later when you have full map control. Once you have maxed your army you can either get the 7 cans that you need, or you can go for the kill on the toss bases for the crazy achievement. In that case, I recommend attacking from the right entrance, while rallying new Goliaths to guard the left one. After you mop up the top right protoss base, you can combine your forces and attack the top left base with all you have, from two sides. This achievement can be done on normal difficulty as well, btw.
EDIT: Here is also some tips for controlling your mass goliaths, for newbies :p Don't be offended if this seems obvious, I can't really know how good you are.
When you just attack-move your goliaths, they will not be maximally effective, because only the front row will start attacking and the ones in the back will just wonder about like fools trying to get in range of enemies, especially in narrow spaces and chokes. Instead start with a move command, and when you see some of your goliaths are in range, give them focus attack command on a high priority target like a colossus or void ray. Then immediately move further, half a second later attack for another volley. Then again move, then attack. You should get the idea now.
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On August 04 2010 10:07 Empyrean wrote:
Have you tried getting Reapers to snipe the Probes?
This is exactly what I did. However, towards the end when you have to go to the further north alters to prevent them from being sealed I was bringing about 10-15 Reapers to snipe the one Probe and probably losing about half of them.
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I lift off the factory and drop my barracks on the tech lab, pump out two medics with the starting gas and just start building marines as I work up my economy. I usually have 4-5 marines, 2 medics and 3 Goliaths before that first push comes. After that, I start my gas and move out to the left to stop the first Alter Cap. From there, I just keep up M&M's, add a couple rax and throw down a bunker with War Pigs in it and maybe a turret at the ramp. I Keep a couple SCV's (auto repair) there and my M&M ball can just roll around the map. I take out the middle base as soon as I can, usually sacrificing my goliaths to tank any damage to clear it out before the 2nd Altar cap. At that point, when I clear out the middle base, I build a couple/few reapers to snipe Altar caps if my ball is too far away.
A couple of times I played it, I used my factory to build a tech lab and reactor lab in prep for my 2 extra rax's. But other that that, I leave it floating. Goliaths just aren't that useful in that mission. Of course, if you've unlocked other Mech tech by going a different route, you might make use out of it. I only had Goliaths available.
This was on Hard, for all 3 mission achieves at the same time.
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You all make me laugh by saying goliaths aren't useful. As I told you already, just the initial three are enough for me to kill the base in the middle, before even the "initial push" comes... which by the way is just 2 zealots, not even worth mentioning. Microing the goliaths is easy and I have no unit lost until I start pumping out of 4-6 factories and hence stop caring about eventual losses anyway.
From all of your posts it kinda seems that I'm playing a different "Hard" mode than you are, what gives?
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I used hellions to snipe the probes that were sealing altars that were far from my base. Aside from that, just make sure your army is mainly goliaths with some marauder support and a couple of medics. That's how I cleared the mission on brutal with no other units available, after some restarts trying to find what units would be best at that point for me.
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i played this on brutal with m&m finished before they steal 1 gyser on the first try. although i replayed it because i forgot to collect the last protoss artifact before completing the mission.
so ya, i recommend just getting m&m, occasional marauder if you like, and actively a-move the outer protoss bases down. that way, when they try to double steal the geysers, you can easily split your forces and snipe the probe.
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keep up with the protoss, after you have prevented one from being sealed, collect it. When you start collecting the ones on the right, take advantage of that time and make you way to the ones in the middle (above their first base where they have a couple of cannons) be careful not to attack this position when they are sending a fleet to your base at the same time because their forces will double. Use saves a lot to predict what their next movement will be.
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EPT
