I'm trying to earn the achievement for preventing the Tal'darim from sealing any Terrazine altars. This one is giving me particular trouble, perhaps due to my tech choices at that point in the mission log. I have upgraded Medic+Marines, no air units. I can hold them off from all the altars on the southern half of the map while carefully microing my Goliaths to prevent losing any, but eventually the Tal'darim start sealing one of the altars that's behind their expansion in the center of the map. It happens before I have quite enough forces to tear down that base. I can run past it with acceptable losses, but as soon as I get back there, the game scripted-spawns a Colossus and several Void Rays on me in the area with 2 cannons near the cluster of 3 altars behind the expansion. I actually see them appear out of nowhere right before my eyes. My 4-6 surviving Goliaths and MM ball can't do anything about the number of forces back there. I'm not sure where I can improve on my build order and I don't know of any way to choose different tech, and if I simply suicide rush the Probe I'll lose my whole army and die to counterattacks, or simply fail to stop the next one.
I know at least one person who's used Wraiths to finish that achievement, but I did it very early on in the campaign so that's not quite an option for me. The enemy unit mixture fluctuates enough that I can't rely on any single unit, particularly Goliaths because they're fragile for their cost and can't be healed without major SCV support. Anyone have advice on this most frustrating achievement?
I had Vultures when i did that mission, do you? I simply had a few (2 at first, later 4 I think) Vultures that I used to snipe the Probes when I was busy killing stuff elsewhere on the map with my main army. Worked well for me.
Nope, I did the Matt Horner missions pretty late. It's mostly the combo of Stalker\Void Ray that's troubling me, but I can see how sniping the probes would be fairly cost-effective, 225 minerals to run-by and blast them. I would also love being able to mine the crap out of the map with the rearmament upgrade for vultures, which I never got.
Doesn't need to be vultures. Any fast harassment unit that can reach the probes without dying should work--Hellions and Reapers being the most likely if you do the mission early.
Reapers is a great idea, come to think of it. I can skip past that expansion via the cliffs and sac 1-3 Reapers to kill off the probe to buy me some time. In the timeframe i'm experiencing, I will only need 1-2 more minutes to wipe out that midfield base with my main army, and using reapers to take down the probes, I won't even need goliaths. For 150\50 I can get 3 marines and save gas for a Medic or 2 Marauders, upgrade infantry armor and laugh at the scouts and stalkers. It's the Void Rays that are rough when you're just MMM, but I bet I can cope as long as the reapers handle the probes.
You do know that you dont have to go through the protoss base to get past it right? Just walk around the right side of the map. I was able to do this mission and its achievements by massing marines and medics. DO NOT BUILD GOLIATHS. They suck, and are not good for this level. Stick with m&m only. Start your +1 attack immediately after you start mining and start +1 armor immediately after that. Eventually your army gets big enough that you can split it up and have half guard your scv and half to kill the enemy probes. The most important thing imo is to not waste money on goliaths. I made that mistake the first time I played this level.
edit: I had all of the marine + medic upgrades when I did this.
Yeah, thanks all, I've got the answers I needed: Goliaths are just not useful at this point in the game, M&M can handle everything, upgrades are key, and Reapers can play the backfield for me if I need them to.
Though, upgraded goliaths ended up being absolutely key for me winning All-In on Hard (with air units active) because of their multitasking upgrade and Science Vessel repairing them. + Show Spoiler +
Kerrigan made a joke of my Battlecruiser-heavy attempts.
Yeah, anything that is fast and can quickly kill a Probe should work, just so you don't have to divert your main army.
Really easy mission when you know what you're doing imho. Build up a small MMM force, bust the expansion just outside your base and expand there, while keeping a small Probe sniping force (Vultures/Hellions/Reapers). Add some Barracks for mass MMM and move around killing everything. Might want to add some Tanks if you can in case you intend to go for the "secret" achievement (killing all Protoss buildings), since it's not that easy to go up the ramps against Colossi, Voidrays and Templar.
Pretty sure I would need a replay of the campaign to go after any of those uber achievements--this was the first mission I did after the Meinhoff Infestation mission, so I did something like this:
Mar Sara 1-3 Smash & Grab Meinhoff Zombies Terrazine
I did a few more missions in the mix between those but I can't remember which ones, because I didn't have to repeat any of the ones not mentioned above, as I aced all the achievements on those first-try.
why handicap yourself and go achievement hunting on brutal? None of the achievement require you to do them on that difficulty, so a hard playthrough suffices.
I'm not on Brutal, I'm on Hard I am not a Platinum player and while my skill has grown a huge ton during the time since Beta started, it will be a bit longer before I'm ready to tackle the Brutal campaign.
On August 04 2010 10:22 preaCor wrote: i assume you are playing on brutal?
just spam medics and marines - work on your macro and timing until you can win, there is no trick
ya, there really is no need for any other units in this level. stimmed marines take down anything you will meet in this level really fast and medics with their upgrade heal fast enough that you will lose very few marines. You should be able to easily keep up with the probes trying to seal gas without using any other fast harassment units.
Also, if you have really large problems with this, they always seal the same altars in a row. So just save after you defeated one, and if you for some reason did not get the next one, reload that save and get there in time. And i think every single altar is reachable without taking out any bases. As others already told, stimmed MM works very well here.
just did this with maruader/medic/goliath. it requires a bit of micro and took me a few saves. if u can ff down the void rays everything else melts quickly
I skullfucked the living shit out of this mission once I stopped trying to make Factory units. I ended up floating 3K+ minerals and 2K+ gas with max-supply M&M ball and a handful of reapers which I didn't end up needing.
I sort of wish the mission didn't end immediately when I got the 7th harvest done, because I wanted to go back and kill the protoss. Even with Colossi they didn't stand a god damn chance.
I too, am having problems w/this ach'ment. My first question is why do some other people have different technology than others? I read some ppl have Vultures and Wraiths, where as I don't even have Marauders 8(. (But I have completed the mission where you first meet Marauders w/all ach'ments). I'm guessing it's the order of planets you go by but nonetheless I know just having Marauders would help, so how can I get them for this?
However, on the contrary I've been getting close w/all out Goliaths and SCVs. I get to the point of 6/7 gasses, but then my force gets overwhelmed by Stalkers/Zealots/Scouts/Void Rays and then I can't recooperate fast enough to stop the 2 Probes sealing 2 spots. (If not paying attention my units go through the middle base and suicide *tear*)
I believe I got close by trying some "Proxy Turrets" and it worked for 1 wave. Maybe if I do some better microing and/or building more Turrets I can get it 8D. Any ideas/suggestions?
Don't make any goliaths. Make as many medic and marine as you can. About 1 medic for every 2 marines. I hope you have Stimpak and Improved Medpaks. Micro well and none of Protoss units on this map will give you trouble except the few colossus. But trust me, Goliaths are a red herring--don't use them! I recommend you read the whole thread as lots of good advice has been given already, and I followed that advice to succeed.
Just go mass medic marine with some gols or marauders if you want (but basically alot of medic marine with upgrades, and big spreads against collo). And whenever an altar gets taken you just charge in there and kill the probe and kill the forces.
But not on brutal, the game is way to hard on brutal. Thats why there are no achievements for brutal because its just to friken hard.
Actually since protoss doesn't throw more than 1 colossus per wave you can still do that achievement on brutal
The HP upgrade from the first protoss tier is ridiculously good on brutal were everything loves to target your medics and all the ai units come with +1 or +2 weapons
get the first three down, then take four at once. It's not that tricky, and it means you skip the whole bit where they send fleets at you constantly. your MM ball if you play it right can easily split into four and still hold off all the air on hard.
On August 05 2010 16:34 Gedrah wrote: Don't make any goliaths. Make as many medic and marine as you can. About 1 medic for every 2 marines. I hope you have Stimpak and Improved Medpaks. Micro well and none of Protoss units on this map will give you trouble except the few colossus. But trust me, Goliaths are a red herring--don't use them! I recommend you read the whole thread as lots of good advice has been given already, and I followed that advice to succeed.
I'm an old BW veteran at heart. I used to do that Medic:Marine ratio 8P
Anyways, I also did read all the replies and yes they mainly say MM(M) mixtures. To whoever said Marauders for me, again I don't have them and wonder how to get them.
I might have to do this mass Marine/Medic build but I was SO close w/Goliaths. 8(
Lastly: I have Combat Shield/StimPak and "No Techlab for Medics" but no Improved Medpaks. Oh and I have the Bunker Turret (Zerg Research upgrade).
For this, I just got a group of MM to block the left side, then swing to the right around the time the second altar is being sealed, while building another group of MM. Second group took out the small protoss base in the middle. From there you can reach every altar in time to prevent any sealing of altars. Continue to mass MM, grab 2-4 altars at once, block a sealing attempt, grab some more gas.
Actually I positioned 2 groups so that I would block everything leaving the protoss base and took 10 altars at once, was quite funny.
I think the achivements are perfectly possible on brutal.
But with no marauders you will have to micro your marines a bit more, and probably have some sort of backup. 5-6 goliaths with a few SCVs to repair will help you a little if you manage to keep them alive. I would the goliaths for void rays and marines for everything else.
On August 05 2010 17:37 humblegar wrote: I think the achivements are perfectly possible on brutal.
But with no marauders you will have to micro your marines a bit more, and probably have some sort of backup. 5-6 goliaths with a few SCVs to repair will help you a little if you manage to keep them alive. I would the goliaths for void rays and marines for everything else.
The first time playing this mission I did kinda go more infantry heavy but got slaughtered by the Colossus. But then again I didn't know the map layout and stuff at that time. Plus I had some bad misclicks and stuff. Newb moves on my part heh.
With no Marauders you should aim for more like a 3:1 Marine:Medic ratio to up your DPS. Colossus will hurt you in the pants, so make sure you're econ'd up and take the middle base as soon as you have enough forces to get in there and pop the pylons without losing too much. There is a fixed order and timing to the Tal'darim's sealing attempts, so memorize that and you should be just fine. Also, they regularly send the probe ahead of everything else--if you have reapers nearby you will sometimes get a shot at killing the probe before it's even in position.
Void Rays are the major danger, but I found that using just M&M the key was to micro well. Stim-rush up to the deadliest units and target fire them, ignore the stalkers for last because they have the least-granular attack and they're literally incapable of killing upgraded marines with healing support. Scouts have a powerful anti-air attack but versus ground units, they're fairly laughable and can be considered meat shields. When attacking a Colossus, just man up and grab your ankles, you're gonna lose ten marines. Stay away from the cliffs of the Tal'darim main base, the High Templars up there will not hesitate to storm you in the culo.
If your production is solid (I had 5 rax with 3 tech labs and 2 reactors, but I made marines out of the tech labs as well when I was floating minerals) and you keep up with SCVs and supply and get the 1\1 upgrades, your army will simply be too granular and high-dps for most of their units to do anything to you. It's really just the colossus, and that's why you have 5 rax shitting marines out.
@Gedrah: Alrighty cool, thx. I'll have to try the M&M ball. Ahhhh BW nostalgia haha.
I did actually notice and start to memorize the order of sealing attempts. W/my all Goliath army, I would focus fire the Stalkers first since they did extra dmg. to Armored units then went for the air. (Void Rays after Stalkers if they were there). Along side, I'd have 2 SCVs to repair and then send 1 to gather the gas after it was clear. I got close doing all these and got even closer w/the "Proxy Turret."
However, I didn't try to gather the last 3 gasses at once as ppl have been saying the attack waves come after you harvest, right? AKA: kill all the surrounding units, set up 3 SCVs, then BAM! run home?
Ya know, maybe I'll try both strats and see which one's easier ^.-- Not trying to undermine anyone or anything, just getting tired as it's getting late heh 8\
On August 04 2010 10:15 Gedrah wrote: Yeah, thanks all, I've got the answers I needed: Goliaths are just not useful at this point in the game, M&M can handle everything, upgrades are key, and Reapers can play the backfield for me if I need them to.
Though, upgraded goliaths ended up being absolutely key for me winning All-In on Hard (with air units active) because of their multitasking upgrade and Science Vessel repairing them. + Show Spoiler +
Kerrigan made a joke of my Battlecruiser-heavy attempts.
Vikings are better. Broodlords can't attack air units, so vikings can intercept them and kill them off before they can launch a single broodling and beleive me, mutalisks do not like it at all, when they are getting hit by splash damage from 11 range. You've got 100 damage siege tanks to deal with the enemy ground forces and the spare minerals can be spent on barracks and bunkers to block off the paths.
I actually got this w/ pure marauder/medic and goliaths
after getting the closest gas can, i pretty much decided against getting the next 6. Instead i opted to mass up while sending smallish groups of marauders to snipe the probe, followed by a few goliaths to pick off any air.
eventually i made routes to all the sites (u can destroy buildings easily w/ marauders) and got really good at stopping all of them. With the 2nd base running as well, I was able to get enough units to cover the top-ish. Then I successfully mined the last 6, all at once. It actually worked out really well XD
On hard, just the first three that you start with are enough to kill the base in the middle, before toss even attacked you. But build one more and attack with four instead to make it easier. Lure the two stalkers out one by one, then kill the cannon. A void ray and another stalker will come at you while you fight the cannon or the pylon, pull back when they do and kill them easily. Remember to pull back your unit that is getting damaged. Bring 1 SCV to repair while you fight or after that, while you are killing his probes and nexus.
Keep building Goliaths off one fac, you probably need just 6-8 of them until you expand in the center, then build 5 more factories. And start massing them. You should be quickly above 120 food with Goliaths, and you can wipe the whole map clean. There are two paths at the top from which the AIs will attack you, so just split your forces and camp both places.
An important thing is to not bother with harvesting the terazine at all, just prevent the toss from it. If you try to harvest it, you will trigger attacks, costing you units, making the game harder - better save that up for later when you have full map control. Once you have maxed your army you can either get the 7 cans that you need, or you can go for the kill on the toss bases for the crazy achievement. In that case, I recommend attacking from the right entrance, while rallying new Goliaths to guard the left one. After you mop up the top right protoss base, you can combine your forces and attack the top left base with all you have, from two sides. This achievement can be done on normal difficulty as well, btw.
EDIT: Here is also some tips for controlling your mass goliaths, for newbies :p Don't be offended if this seems obvious, I can't really know how good you are. When you just attack-move your goliaths, they will not be maximally effective, because only the front row will start attacking and the ones in the back will just wonder about like fools trying to get in range of enemies, especially in narrow spaces and chokes. Instead start with a move command, and when you see some of your goliaths are in range, give them focus attack command on a high priority target like a colossus or void ray. Then immediately move further, half a second later attack for another volley. Then again move, then attack. You should get the idea now.
On August 04 2010 10:07 Empyrean wrote: Have you tried getting Reapers to snipe the Probes?
This is exactly what I did. However, towards the end when you have to go to the further north alters to prevent them from being sealed I was bringing about 10-15 Reapers to snipe the one Probe and probably losing about half of them.
I lift off the factory and drop my barracks on the tech lab, pump out two medics with the starting gas and just start building marines as I work up my economy. I usually have 4-5 marines, 2 medics and 3 Goliaths before that first push comes. After that, I start my gas and move out to the left to stop the first Alter Cap. From there, I just keep up M&M's, add a couple rax and throw down a bunker with War Pigs in it and maybe a turret at the ramp. I Keep a couple SCV's (auto repair) there and my M&M ball can just roll around the map. I take out the middle base as soon as I can, usually sacrificing my goliaths to tank any damage to clear it out before the 2nd Altar cap. At that point, when I clear out the middle base, I build a couple/few reapers to snipe Altar caps if my ball is too far away.
A couple of times I played it, I used my factory to build a tech lab and reactor lab in prep for my 2 extra rax's. But other that that, I leave it floating. Goliaths just aren't that useful in that mission. Of course, if you've unlocked other Mech tech by going a different route, you might make use out of it. I only had Goliaths available.
This was on Hard, for all 3 mission achieves at the same time.
You all make me laugh by saying goliaths aren't useful. As I told you already, just the initial three are enough for me to kill the base in the middle, before even the "initial push" comes... which by the way is just 2 zealots, not even worth mentioning. Microing the goliaths is easy and I have no unit lost until I start pumping out of 4-6 factories and hence stop caring about eventual losses anyway. From all of your posts it kinda seems that I'm playing a different "Hard" mode than you are, what gives?
I used hellions to snipe the probes that were sealing altars that were far from my base. Aside from that, just make sure your army is mainly goliaths with some marauder support and a couple of medics. That's how I cleared the mission on brutal with no other units available, after some restarts trying to find what units would be best at that point for me.
i played this on brutal with m&m finished before they steal 1 gyser on the first try. although i replayed it because i forgot to collect the last protoss artifact before completing the mission.
so ya, i recommend just getting m&m, occasional marauder if you like, and actively a-move the outer protoss bases down. that way, when they try to double steal the geysers, you can easily split your forces and snipe the probe.
keep up with the protoss, after you have prevented one from being sealed, collect it. When you start collecting the ones on the right, take advantage of that time and make you way to the ones in the middle (above their first base where they have a couple of cannons) be careful not to attack this position when they are sending a fleet to your base at the same time because their forces will double. Use saves a lot to predict what their next movement will be.
I did this as one of my first missions so I didn't have many upgrades or special units at my disposal. I saturated my economy and as soon as the mercenaries became available I sent out a small force to start clearing bases. By then I think I had 4 medics and (counting the war pigs, which were the only mercs I had unlocked) 14 marines. Start pumping out reapers at this point.
I used that small task force I made to move out and start clearing some of the protoss settlements that would probably destroy my reapers before they could get a probe otherwise. I had one barracks with a core and one with a tech. Use the core to keep pushing out marines (and a few medics if you tech'd that) and the tech to get a solid group of reapers. I managed to get this achievement really easily once those two main sets of canons were taken down. A group of 6 reapers is enough to make sure you get a probe kill and then retreat, but I liked having a group of about 10. My marine+medic army eventually pushes out and protects scvs and I made an expansion up at the destroyed protoss base to take a shot at destroying all enemy buildings. Marine + Medic didn't prove to be as good for that :p
I did this mission basically rushing straight to it. All I had with marauders (didn't use) marines medics and goliaths. Only upgardes were combat shields and stim. Got every achievement in 1 play on brutal. What I did: Mass mnm, make goliaths with one fact but only when your barracks is pumping, and use 2 barracks and 1 fact prioritising mnm. Goliaths I used for no real reason, they're handy vs colossus though. You need to take out the centre expo as soon as you can so you can expo. Pump 2 base mnm and just power through everything. Only take terrazine when you stop their sealing and then take that one, so you don't lose any scvs since your offense=your defense.
Colossus/storm I dealt with some micro and goliaths help vs colossus.
no i am not, you build a PF in the middle of the 3 gas nodes and then when the trigger to come rape your scv activates they run to the PF instead of all the way to your main. you get can get 3 at once this way.
On August 07 2010 02:41 georgir wrote: You all make me laugh by saying goliaths aren't useful. As I told you already, just the initial three are enough for me to kill the base in the middle, before even the "initial push" comes... which by the way is just 2 zealots, not even worth mentioning. Microing the goliaths is easy and I have no unit lost until I start pumping out of 4-6 factories and hence stop caring about eventual losses anyway. From all of your posts it kinda seems that I'm playing a different "Hard" mode than you are, what gives?
We've varying levels of skill coming into this game, sir. I soaked up a lot of general knowledge from this thread and a couple others, so I'd say my skill level at the time of posting the OP and at the time of this post were vastly different. However, I still don't feel that Goliaths are a good investment on this mission, compared to M&M which never ever die to the units on this map (except Storms\Colossus) since I don't have either of their upgrades or science vessels to repair them, and since bringing SCVs into combat means you have a chance of tanking the "no SCVs die" achievement, if you happen to be going for it.
Also, in addition to varying levels of skill, the order you approach the campaign "can" make a big difference. Less so with this mission, of course, since it's one of the early ones, but still--research is a big deal. You possibly were playing a different "hard" than we were
I just went marine medic on brutal and absolutely dominated them... they weren't even remotely challenging. Just get a bio ball, and stim whenever they are taking one. When I played I took 4 of the alters all at the same time and held them off fine.
Built a few goliaths but not many, they weren't really necessary.
This achievement is really easy if you do this mission later, if you get the mercenaries Dusk Wings before you do this level the Protoss has no detection and it's relatively easy to pick off the probes using cloak
If you spam enough MMM you will do this no problem. clear out the closest 4 to the left, then be ready to zerg in there. ALWAYS keep your Marine and Medic count up, get 3 rax with core
If you are having problems just rush 10 marines with stim to kill off the probe, u should be picking off as many canisters as you can right after each seal attempt.
Easiest shit ever. I got all 4 achievements at once (including Feat of Strength).
Literally you should make nothing but SCVs and MMM.
Put down 2-4 barracks (depending on time in game) with whatever combo of reactors and tech labs you want and hit D, A, and E randomly.
You won't need more than 20-30 in a ball at one time, once you get up near the 40 mark, make 2 groups, push or do whatever with 1 and defend caps with the other.
Stim before engaging, etc.... A Move throughout the map, taking the expo early, when your army is hitting the 2nd page.
A Move some more, clear out the Protoss if you want to get the FoS (need a big group for this, much bigger than defending/clearing).
MMM ball + Attack Move = victory on this map. Simplest possible strat.
If you find yourself running into difficulties, take over the Protoss base to the north for extra minerals/gas. Use that area as a central hub and dispatch MMM balls to places where they're taking the Terrazine. After you build up a big enough ball, head north and a-move into his base.
Definitely helps if you have both medic upgrades from the Hyperion armory.
EDIT:
And don't do what I did.
I destroyed all of P in the NW, then I went NE and destroyed all of his buildings before I got the last artifact. When the last building was destroyed, the mission ended and I didn't get the artifact. Feels bad, man.
Weird, I actually built ONLY goliaths and found this achieve to be quite easy, got it without even knowing it existed. I just built gols from 2 fact and used micro to keep them alive. Just make sure to use 4 or 5 control groups to segment off the army like you normally would in multiplayer and then split your force and micro individual units.
On August 08 2010 18:28 fant0m wrote: Easiest shit ever. I got all 4 achievements at once (including Feat of Strength).
Literally you should make nothing but SCVs and MMM.
Put down 2-4 barracks (depending on time in game) with whatever combo of reactors and tech labs you want and hit D, A, and E randomly.
You won't need more than 20-30 in a ball at one time, once you get up near the 40 mark, make 2 groups, push or do whatever with 1 and defend caps with the other.
Stim before engaging, etc.... A Move throughout the map, taking the expo early, when your army is hitting the 2nd page.
A Move some more, clear out the Protoss if you want to get the FoS (need a big group for this, much bigger than defending/clearing).
MMM ball + Attack Move = victory on this map. Simplest possible strat.
This. You don't even need to "snipe" the probes. Just stay near the middle of the map and stim towards whatever altar is being capped.
I've won that one on Hard killing everything on the map.
this mission is about target priority. i build mostly goliaths and some marauder + medics to tank dmg and kill probe+stalker. u have to keep goliaths behind mm. its important to snipe colosses and after that voidrays and to attack rest after that. its very important not to loose many units. u should destroy protos base in the middle as soon as u have some mm to tank. lure enemyunits out of there first and kill them. go in destroy the rest and make expo there. after that u will have enough productivitiy to kill all protos on the map. if u do that u will just win. and if u attack base they cant seal because no probe can go out to seal something.
Reapers are your best friends for this achievement. Three reapers (Two with the damage armory upgrade) kill a probe in one volley, and can get to any canister (and back, often times) with no casualties.
On August 04 2010 13:55 Gedrah wrote: I skullfucked the living shit out of this mission once I stopped trying to make Factory units. I ended up floating 3K+ minerals and 2K+ gas with max-supply M&M ball and a handful of reapers which I didn't end up needing.
I sort of wish the mission didn't end immediately when I got the 7th harvest done, because I wanted to go back and kill the protoss. Even with Colossi they didn't stand a god damn chance.
The mission doesn't end until the gas is returned to your CC. You can always harvest the 7th, and keep the SCV with the canister somewhere safe. Then go kill whatever, and then turn it in
Also, if anyone is having trouble with the Void Rays, just build up a bunch of turrets.
Just to say it again: Yup. Reapers are amazing here. I ran a few reapers with a couple vultures for good measure, since I wanted to include a couple medics and only made one tech lab.
Vikings are very useful later in the map, but scattered throughout I did make a couple of goliaths. They aren't thaaaaaaaaaaaat bad. In the end I averted 9 capping attempts and got the achievement without it being too stressful.
I got this achievement during my brutal playthrough, in fact i'd been trying just about every other strategy just to get the mission completed on that difficulty at all.
My strat was simply mass medic/marine; play aggressively and go for map control early on - cleared the right side of the map first, then through the mini-base on the left side and sweep through the middle and take out the expo from the rear.
Full medic and marine armory upgrades, so I had 2 reactor barracks on 1 base and added another and turreted the hell out of the center after taking the expo.
Of course, you also have to storm dodge like a pro so save often.
It's funny, because I made this thread the week the game came out, and beat the achievement later that day. I keep following it, and realize most of the new posts are just repeating previous posters & probably didn't read any of the thread. All of this shit has already been said, in much greater detail with explanations and more, in the first 1-2 pages.
I was playing that mission on Brutal and that was the very first I had to cheat on. Later I beat it on a different run through with this strat.
I basically built three bunkers full of 6 war pigs with projectile accelerator. that counter any Void Rays that might come and take my base out with. By that time I also had a Vikes, and that basically took care of the air threat, while marauders took care of zealots and stalkers. I took one at a time, and sent the vikings to kill the probes when they sealed that first altar. I essentially ignored the goliaths completely, apart from the three I started with were for additional base defense.
Goliaths lack the pursuit capabilites that vikings (their replacement) have. It took a while, but I did it.
Build another command center, get one or two scvs, and land it right next to a geyser. This lets you harvest gas extremely fast. If you do this for like your last 4 needed, you can double harvest at two locations using the second command center, while a marine and medic ball take out groups going to seal altars. You should be wary that they start to double cap altars, far apart from each other. if you get your gas fast enough you should only have a double cap attempt once or twice.
Marine + Marine hero + medic will hold really easy Never pass at the bases (the one in the center and the one on the left... ) if you go fast and stim you can only kill the probe then kill the other unit to prevent them while not being in danger all the way to the base
I just made nothing but M&M and infantry upgrades. Grabbed the first one by your main, then the next two on the left side at the same time. By then I had macroed enough M&M to have two self-sustaining control groups and just used the second one to clear up the right side while I finished grabbing stuff on the left. Once I got the 3-4 on the left (excluding the top left) I went and cleared through the middle, where that protoss base by your main is. At this point you've got the left locked down, a M&M group covering the 3 in the middle and another group covering the 2 on the right. I grabbed the two on the right and 1-2 more in the middle to amount you needed to finish. Even if they tried to close one at the top left you could just power through and sniped the probe with 1-2 marines while the rest were fighting the army.
Leave a bunker/turret in your main with an scv on auto repair beside it to take care of harass.
I just went back and finished this achievement last night. I thought it would take me several tries but it occurred to me to rely heavily on my Marines and Medics rather than Goliaths which for me was the key. While I used save/loads probably a bit more judiciously than I should have, here’s my basic strat (which I see I’m echoing many others on this thread. Also just as a FYI, I’m a silver level Zerg player so this may work best for folks of similar skill and background):
1. Early Stages: 6 Priorities a. Prevent Capping (make good use of stim pack and FF on the probes) b. Grow Economy (Makes lots of SCVs and keep the supply depots coming, I didn’t send SCVs with Goliath for repairs, but would repair once I was back at the base if possible) c. Grow Army (Marines, Medics and a few Marauders—I also supplemented with mercenaries as they become available, also good for use in base defense. I initially used a Tech lab for medics and then about 3-4 cap attempts in, built my second barracks with a reactor (varies depending on when your economy starts to exceed your ability to pump out units. I found that things got a lot eaiser when I built a few more medics then I thought I needed, they really help, though I couldn’t tell you what the proper ratio would be). d. Don’t worry about harnessing any Terazine gas yourself not even the two easy ones close to your base, it slows your econ down too much.(The notion is to focus on keeping them from capping and a strong enough econ to grow your army. It will get easier in the end) e. Upgrade your infantry armor & weapons as you can f. Defend (I found it help after the first couple capping expeditions to keep my initial Goliaths back at my base, they’re slow and awkward in the field, but they’ve a nice range for defense; also eventually a bunker and turrets. Another key thing I would do is after I would prevent a cap, I would then defeat the force there and retreat back towards my base or to the more centrally located area just north of your base. You can also snipe Protoss units camping alters, (look at your mini map, you’ll see some blue dots just chillin) though be careful, this may take you to the opposite side of the map from their next cap attempt.)
2. Mid-Game a. Continue to prevent all of the above, but b. Grow army to critical mass (As above, you should grow to a point where you need a second, and third RAX with reactor making nothing but marines. If my macro game was better you really could at this point have 4 or more barracks bumping out troops, but I found by this point, the game was all but won.) c. Defeat base to the immediate north of your starting base. (Timing on this required I used a few save/loads so I didn’t do a push only to find once my forces were committed to that attack that the Protoss would start capping a new alter. Keeping a Reapers/Hellion force in reserve as I discuss below may be a way of doing both at the same time) d. Build and moderately fortify your new expansion as well as start adding SCVs and additional refiners as needed. (I think I had one bunker and a few turrets—I thought I would need more but I only got one push against this base and those forces and the fact that this base is more centrally located and thus easier to reinforce were enough to hold them off and then defeat them).
3. Late-Game a. Prevent any further capping attempts (For me, I think I only needed to prevent one more capping and controlling the center base really made it easy to get around.) b. Continue to grow army I think in the end I was at 120-140 supply and had just built my 3rd RAX when I realized their attacks were actually getting weaker. c. Start taking Terazine. (I would camp my army in spots that had 3 defendable alters, send SCVs to collect and just defended with my mob. I did that twice and then the last one I just sent an SCV to the closest alter from the starting position in the far SW and protected it with my defense force). d. Checkmate!
Analysis and further commentary I think this was a pretty solid strategy, unfortunately I did have to use save/load frequently as it really helped me with the timing for my pushes and it would help me not to push out when my base was about to be attacked (though I did this more because it was my first attempt and was really anticipating this to be harder than it worked out to be. Also, watch the mini-map, you can normally spot attacks coming).
I would consider a fast strike force of Reapers or Hellions as a few folks have mentioned. This secondary quick-strike force would make it easier to push out and attack the second base at your leisure without worrying about timing it right.
Another major consideration is you have to remember to work on micro until you take over the northern expansion. By this I mean, if you’re sending reinforcements or have them hotkeyed from your production buildings to join your main attack force, be careful that they don’t choose the shortest route through the defended enemy base until you have taken that base. This means you will need to pay attention to units as they get produced and make sure they are moving around the outside to join your force. Another bit of macro is to remember to use stim pack. I would use it a lot to get where I was going faster. Also a technique I used once and wished I would have done more of is depening on how close the probe was to capping the gas, I would have my units rally just shy of the alter for a few seconds. This would give my medics time to catch up, heal and make it so a second stim was safer.
I personally didn’t have siege tanks available but they would make things a lot easier for base defense and to overtake your future expo (‘The Dig’ was a pretty easy mission that next time I will most likely complete beforehand). Also, I don’t think I had upgraded my medics but it would most likely help as would making it so medics can be built from a reactor. I did however have fully upgraded marine, bunkers with 6 slots & nifty canons atop them, and war pigs and Hammer security forces—all of which I’d recommend for this strat, excepting perhaps the cannon atop the bunker, I’m not sure how well that works).
Good luck, I hope this helps. I think this is post #2 for me!
On September 16 2010 03:21 Anjuu wrote: I just went back and finished this achievement last night. I thought it would take me several tries but it occurred to me to rely heavily on my Marines and Medics rather than Goliaths which for me was the key. While I used save/loads probably a bit more judiciously than I should have, here’s my basic strat (which I see I’m echoing many others on this thread. Also just as a FYI, I’m a silver level Zerg player so this may work best for folks of similar skill and background):
1. Early Stages: 6 Priorities a. Prevent Capping (make good use of stim pack and FF on the probes) b. Grow Economy (Makes lots of SCVs and keep the supply depots coming, I didn’t send SCVs with Goliath for repairs, but would repair once I was back at the base if possible) c. Grow Army (Marines, Medics and a few Marauders—I also supplemented with mercenaries as they become available, also good for use in base defense. I initially used a Tech lab for medics and then about 3-4 cap attempts in, built my second barracks with a reactor (varies depending on when your economy starts to exceed your ability to pump out units. I found that things got a lot eaiser when I built a few more medics then I thought I needed, they really help, though I couldn’t tell you what the proper ratio would be). d. Don’t worry about harnessing any Terazine gas yourself not even the two easy ones close to your base, it slows your econ down too much.(The notion is to focus on keeping them from capping and a strong enough econ to grow your army. It will get easier in the end) e. Upgrade your infantry armor & weapons as you can f. Defend (I found it help after the first couple capping expeditions to keep my initial Goliaths back at my base, they’re slow and awkward in the field, but they’ve a nice range for defense; also eventually a bunker and turrets. Another key thing I would do is after I would prevent a cap, I would then defeat the force there and retreat back towards my base or to the more centrally located area just north of your base. You can also snipe Protoss units camping alters, (look at your mini map, you’ll see some blue dots just chillin) though be careful, this may take you to the opposite side of the map from their next cap attempt.)
2. Mid-Game a. Continue to prevent all of the above, but b. Grow army to critical mass (As above, you should grow to a point where you need a second, and third RAX with reactor making nothing but marines. If my macro game was better you really could at this point have 4 or more barracks bumping out troops, but I found by this point, the game was all but won.) c. Defeat base to the immediate north of your starting base. (Timing on this required I used a few save/loads so I didn’t do a push only to find once my forces were committed to that attack that the Protoss would start capping a new alter. Keeping a Reapers/Hellion force in reserve as I discuss below may be a way of doing both at the same time) d. Build and moderately fortify your new expansion as well as start adding SCVs and additional refiners as needed. (I think I had one bunker and a few turrets—I thought I would need more but I only got one push against this base and those forces and the fact that this base is more centrally located and thus easier to reinforce were enough to hold them off and then defeat them).
3. Late-Game a. Prevent any further capping attempts (For me, I think I only needed to prevent one more capping and controlling the center base really made it easy to get around.) b. Continue to grow army I think in the end I was at 120-140 supply and had just built my 3rd RAX when I realized their attacks were actually getting weaker. c. Start taking Terazine. (I would camp my army in spots that had 3 defendable alters, send SCVs to collect and just defended with my mob. I did that twice and then the last one I just sent an SCV to the closest alter from the starting position in the far SW and protected it with my defense force). d. Checkmate!
Analysis and further commentary I think this was a pretty solid strategy, unfortunately I did have to use save/load frequently as it really helped me with the timing for my pushes and it would help me not to push out when my base was about to be attacked (though I did this more because it was my first attempt and was really anticipating this to be harder than it worked out to be. Also, watch the mini-map, you can normally spot attacks coming).
I would consider a fast strike force of Reapers or Hellions as a few folks have mentioned. This secondary quick-strike force would make it easier to push out and attack the second base at your leisure without worrying about timing it right.
Another major consideration is you have to remember to work on micro until you take over the northern expansion. By this I mean, if you’re sending reinforcements or have them hotkeyed from your production buildings to join your main attack force, be careful that they don’t choose the shortest route through the defended enemy base until you have taken that base. This means you will need to pay attention to units as they get produced and make sure they are moving around the outside to join your force. Another bit of macro is to remember to use stim pack. I would use it a lot to get where I was going faster. Also a technique I used once and wished I would have done more of is depening on how close the probe was to capping the gas, I would have my units rally just shy of the alter for a few seconds. This would give my medics time to catch up, heal and make it so a second stim was safer.
I personally didn’t have siege tanks available but they would make things a lot easier for base defense and to overtake your future expo (‘The Dig’ was a pretty easy mission that next time I will most likely complete beforehand). Also, I don’t think I had upgraded my medics but it would most likely help as would making it so medics can be built from a reactor. I did however have fully upgraded marine, bunkers with 6 slots & nifty canons atop them, and war pigs and Hammer security forces—all of which I’d recommend for this strat, excepting perhaps the cannon atop the bunker, I’m not sure how well that works).
Good luck, I hope this helps. I think this is post #2 for me!
i think this can be summed up in two words:
"get reapers"
seriously... just get like 5-6 reapers and move out to snipe the probe anytime they try to close one... this allows you to use move your MM ball at your own pace and with ease without having to worry about which gases the protoss is trying to take..
I did this not too long ago and i just made a total of 6 reapers. I sent 2 at a time when they started capping one and used its armory skill (scatter bomb or something) on the probe. At the same time i just massed marine + medic. i left the goliaths back at home to defend.
I played this mission totally standard and easily accomplished the achievement. Worst case scenario would suiciding a couple of units to kill the probe, but usually it's easy to just march right over the guardians as well with a part of the main army. Otherwise Vikings are suitable to deal with it as well.
Hellion suicides to snipe Probes. Build a couple bunkers+turrets at the left between the 2 Terrazine geysers. Run up the right and kill everything. Build some bunkers and turrets at the junction between the 2 topmost geysers on the right side. Build extra turrets at home.
Just go marine/medic and maybe add few marauder in frontline to soak damage if you have them, just start cleaning out places early on and move to intercept probe whenever the warning comes.
I think it was only once in a difficulty distance to reach after I started to play a lot more agressively, going only for clean up and intercepting and started my own gathering after I had almost all the places under control with two decent size control groups roaming around denying the probes and protecting the collectors.
this one gave me a lot of trouble too until i started clearing the areas before hand. just mass pure mmm and clear the map left to right before the probes actually start mining those positions. once you start taking your own alters use bunkers to hold main walk ways and it should be cake. if you're on brutal do not mine two at a time, although i was able to do 4 at a time on hard.
Hm.. All I had was goliaths and firebats from the teching. No vultures, no wraiths, no vikings, no reapers.
I had actually no trouble with this achievement. I'd show you a replay of me beating it, but that was a long time ago, actually. Can you save a replay of single player missions, anyway?
Oh, back to the topic. I played on hard I think and buit only marines/medics and mercenaries marines and goliaths. Cleared first 4 terrazine to the left quite quickly I think, and the one that the first poster is talking about, the one behind the protoss base went quite quickly, because I've started attacking that base before they started to harness the gass. For each of us different missions were tougher. I for example had so much trouble with the great train robbery on brutal. The first mission I had to watch youtube cast on how to do it.
I did it by building exclusively MM, Stimming liberally. Switched the Barracks and Factory for a fast tech lab to start making 2-3 medics, then built a Reactor with the Factory while I made a Barracks for Marines. Pumped marines and medics for the rest of the mission, with a single bunker near the ramp (marines rallied into it).
I started the attack as soon as the first probe starts sealing on the left with 5-6 marines, 2 medics, the 3 starting goliaths, and 2 SCVs. I ran the left side, started mining from the first 2, sent another 2 for the top 2, then killed the Scouts on the upper 2. Defended the SCVs for most of the way through Goliaths likely die to the VR push), then started heading to the right side. Joined my new marines (unload the bunker) and medics then I passed by base, grabbed 2 scvs to join in.
Around this point, they try to seal the middle right altar. You're already on the way, so kill it then take 2 gasses from the right. Defend the push, then they try to seal one of the inner altars (and shortly after, the other one). This is why you are not using Goliaths. This is a suicide mission. Stim and run in. You'll see a Colossus start warping in (you can actually kill it easily while it's warping in, but it's not necessary and if you aren't fast enough, you'll miss the probe snipe). Snipe the top one, then head down and snipe the other. Now unload the bunker again, bring the last SCV, and head up the right side to take the top right altar. The defense force of VRs is easily defendable with your marines and medics. The important thing is that you pay attention to the SCV. After it finishes mining the gas, it'll try to go through the enemy base. You have to redirect it down the safe path, but other than that you're safe.
It is integral that you keep up your macro during this. The actual fighting is trivial stim-A-move, so just make sure you don't get supply blocked and you keep up your MM production. If you keep making marines and medics, then then attacks on your base will be just fine. You might get a big push as your last SCV is bringing in the last gas, but workers have low priority, so as long as there is anything at your base, he'll actually just run past the fighting and cap the gas.
Had marauder/medic/huge amts of vikings and rolled throug this pretty easy, take your tiem getting the gas so u just have to defend them before pushingo ut
This mission is a huge cakewalk on hard. I even destroyed the protoss base on hard to get the feat of strength.
The most important rule is: Don't take terrazine yourself. Not even 1 canister. You want to be completely on the defensive here. Let them try to lock the altars, and deny them then. Medic/marine is perfect for the job. Highly mobile and very good DPS. Spread a little, and focus the colossi and they will become almost useless. Remember that scouts do so little DPS they actually heal your marines when they attack ._. Stalkers shouldn't really be a problem with the medic heal speed upgrade. After colossi and HTs your next priority targets will be void rays, since powered up, can rip a few marines apart before dying.
You say you're plat, but you definitely should macro harder. I think I have decent macro, and just made constant MnM out of 2 raxes. Once in a while some resources would stack up, and I made a few golies from that.
What you want to do, is set up containment at 2 choke points. I'm talking 2-3 bunkers with marine/mara inside and turrets. This should EASILY hold off their waves. Leave 3-4 scvs for repair and rebuilding turrets ofc.
Then you can either take your 7 terrazine canisters, or you can go in for the kill to get the feat of strength. The best timing would be exactly after their wave from 1 of the entrances. Beware of random HTs and Colossi in his base, but MnM should deal with it. People suggest marauders, but without stim I find them lacking. Mow them down with pure marines.
So, I just got this a little bit ago and wanted to add my two cents. I beat my head agains this particular achivement for at least a week.
Lots of folks have said it; don't bother with goliaths. I know a few people have gotten them to work, but I did strictly MM. (max upgrades for both of course).
Take the expansion; the earlier, the better. I usually did it after the 3rd seal attempt. Once it's totally gone they never rebuild it, even if they push you out. I had more trouble with the mini bases than I did with the actual base.
Since I'd had so much trouble for so long, I cheated; I went and got reapers and tanks (fully upgraded the tanks). A team of 4-6 reapers is ideal for sniping seal attempts. You'll loose some, so replace as necessary.
Don't bother attempting to cap any gas until you own everything except the big top base. The AI kicks it into high gear after you get either 3 or 4 and it's extra hastle you don't have to put up with. Like Lath and others said, leave it alone!
Oh, I nearly forgot, I had upgraded the bunkers and turrets. Those were the first things that noticably helped me out. Upgraded missle turrets will even attack colossi.
i build random units and got the achievement on brutal. i think i made it with mass goliath, double mech upgrades and scvs for repair. it wasnt too hard oO
EPT
I am not a Platinum player and while my skill has grown a huge ton during the time since Beta started, it will be a bit longer before I'm ready to tackle the Brutal campaign.
Never pass at the bases (the one in the center and the one on the left... ) if you go fast and stim you can only kill the probe then kill the other unit to prevent them while not being in danger all the way to the base
