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On July 31 2010 02:34 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2010 21:55 TheFinalWord wrote:On July 30 2010 21:44 VonLego wrote:
I was having a lot of fun with all the anti-air goodies I had recently picked up and figured it would be the way to go -- didn't know there was such a huge difficulty gap between the missions.
That being said the "nuke the canals" mission is a ton of fun and those who took out the air should go back and play it. have you played with the nydus in the last mission. Its still very hard. Are you sure the flyers aren't offset by the severly reduced ground forces? Nydus Worms really aren't a problem because Tanks at your entrances take out any that pop up in your base. Seriously. Mass Tanks and you don't even need to go out and take out the Nydus Worms. Did it on Brutal and it was pure rape.
...Until Kerrigan comes and Storms/1-shots all your tanks. Any units you have remaining are firing at Kerrigan, and 7694768974356 hydras/ultras are stacked up behind her ready to smash your face when she goes down.
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On July 31 2010 02:40 MangoTango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 02:34 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 30 2010 21:55 TheFinalWord wrote:On July 30 2010 21:44 VonLego wrote:
I was having a lot of fun with all the anti-air goodies I had recently picked up and figured it would be the way to go -- didn't know there was such a huge difficulty gap between the missions.
That being said the "nuke the canals" mission is a ton of fun and those who took out the air should go back and play it. have you played with the nydus in the last mission. Its still very hard. Are you sure the flyers aren't offset by the severly reduced ground forces? Nydus Worms really aren't a problem because Tanks at your entrances take out any that pop up in your base. Seriously. Mass Tanks and you don't even need to go out and take out the Nydus Worms. Did it on Brutal and it was pure rape. ...Until Kerrigan comes and Storms/1-shots all your tanks. Any units you have remaining are firing at Kerrigan, and 7694768974356 hydras/ultras are stacked up behind her ready to smash your face when she goes down.
never was a problem for me, i won this mission on first try on brutal, with just mass tanks + bunkers
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I played this very straight up without any of the smart stuff some people did (like thors to stun kerrigan, walling of with ccs etc.)
I had no real wall, just built a ton of bunkers (left side was much harder for me because it has two entrances) with siege tanks behind and got banshees for the nydus worms, tho i kept losing them because they ran out of engery for cloak after a while. when kerrigan came I just pretty much ignored her and just let my wall take care of her, rebuilding once she was gone and most of the time using the nova for this time. Didn't have PFs or bunker upgrades which probably made it a lot harder. After reading some of the strats I think I played it pretty retarded but still managed after maybe 15 tries.
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i finally managed to finish it on brutal minus nydus worms. i used bc/viking/vessels/thor/flame turrets to do it. i also got the achievement for using the artifact blast once, not because i wanted to get it but rather because i was never under enough pressure until the end
- rax walls at both choke points. i didnt do a proper wall, just had 3 rax surrounding the bunker you get at the start. i tried to keep the bunker alive but its not really that important. i added a few depots to make a perfect wall later on.
- spam flame turrets and keep 3-4 tanks & turrets at each entrance.
- keep a number of turrets (3-4) and a flame turret behind your mineral line and leave a couple of vikings to deal with broodlords. a flame turret next to your merc lab gets rid of the annoyance of the random zerg spawn
- 2 turrets and a flame turret next to the top supply depot cluster basically kills the overlord drop without you having to look at it, the overlords come after the first air raid on your mineral line so use that as a cue. the tanks by your wall will clean up anything at the bottom of your base so only worry about the right side
- i only ever had 3-4 thor at any one time, just to use the barrage ability to get the stun off on kerrigan. once the stun gets going get your bc to attack her and try to keep her stun locked. i upgraded my thors to get an AoE effect, i think it may have fucked with the stun since it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time if at all, but the damage helps
- leave a small squad of vikings (3 or 4) both entrance to take out broodlords. focus more attention on the top wall since it seems to get more broodlords. aim to have about a dozen all up.
- keep building scvs the entire game because you need to keep reinforcing your walls with repairers and turrets. this is important otherwise you will fall behind economically and wont be able to afford the constant stream of units, turrets and upgrades that you need
- after you take out the 85% kerrigan start walling off the high ground and spamming as many flame turrets as you can behind the artifact (so they dont get taken out by broodlords). as your wall starts to break around 90% lift off everything and try to cram the highground with as much shit as possible, summon whatever mercs you can afford and throw all your scvs and shit there as well. ignore the mutas and focus fire down the broodlords with yamato/vikings since them and zerglings are going to be the only thing that will hit the artifact, the rest will run into the imbalanced vessel/bc wall
- its important to keep your bc/viking army in front of the artifact so they shoot down broodlords/mutas before they can get a shot off on your artifact. i had my bcs supporting the top wall since its harder to hold for whatever reason also.
- save it before you fight the 80% kerrigan just in case things go sour. it will autosave after she dies so you can reload from that
- at 95% or so fire off the artifact. if the artifact still has full health and you have a decent amount of units left you win, since zerglings wont spawn in time to overrun you. just keep up the focus fire on the broodlords
choke setups:
![[image loading]](http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3599/screenshot2010073105065.th.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/1603/screenshot2010073105053.th.jpg)
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Mass marine and medic takes kerrigan a ton faster than using battlecruisers and mech. Snipe is also an easy way to kill her. BTW, I did the nydus worm mission before the ALL IN mission so I was fighting a lot of air. it was a pain in the ass
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 31 2010 03:12 SoMuchBetter wrote:i finally managed to finish it on brutal minus nydus worms. i used bc/viking/vessels/thor/flame turrets to do it. i also got the achievement for using the artifact blast once, not because i wanted to get it but rather because i never under enough pressure until the end - rax walls at both choke points. i didnt do a proper wall, just had 3 rax surrounding the bunker you get at the start. i tried to keep the bunker alive but its not really that important. i added a few depots to make a perfect wall later on.
- spam flame turrets and keep 3-4 tanks & turrets at each entrance.
- keep a number of turrets (3-4) and a flame turret behind your mineral line and leave a couple of vikings to deal with broodlords. a flame turret next to your merc lab gets rid of the annoyance of the random zerg spawn
- 2 turrets and a flame turret next to the supply depot cluster basically kills the overlord drop without you having to look at it, the overlords come after the first air raid on your mineral line so use that as a cue.
- i only ever had 3-4 thor at any one time, just to use the barrage ability to get the stun off on kerrigan. once the stun gets going get your bc to attack her and try to keep her stun locked. i upgraded my thors to get an AoE effect, i think it may have fucked with the stun since it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time if at all, but the damage helps
- leave a small squad of vikings (3 or 4) both entrance to take out broodlords. focus more attention on the top wall since it seems to get more broodlords. aim to have about a dozen all up.
- keep building scvs the entire game because you need to keep reinforcing your walls with repairers and turrets. this is important otherwise you will fall behind economically and wont be able to afford the constant stream of units, turrets and upgrades that you need
- after you take out the 85% kerrigan start walling off the high ground and spamming as many flame turrets as you can behind the artifact (so they dont get taken out by broodlords). as your wall starts to break around 90% lift off everything and try to cram the highground with as much shit as possible, summon whatever mercs you can afford and throw all your scvs and shit there as well. ignore the mutas and focus fire down the broodlords with yamato/vikings since them and zerglings are going to be the only thing that will hit the artifact, the rest will run into the imbalanced vessel/bc wall
- its important to keep your bc/viking army in front of the artifact so they shoot down broodlords/mutas before they can get a shot off on your artifact. i had my bcs supporting the top wall since its harder to hold for whatever reason also.
- save it before you fight the 80% kerrigan just in case things go sour. it will autosave after she dies so you can reload from that
- at 95% or so fire off the artifact. if the artifact still has full health and you have a decent amount of units left you win, since zerglings wont spawn in time to overrun you. just keep up the focus fire on the broodlords
Hm, well done!
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I watched that video for inspiration and got it on the first try.
I was doing it all wrong! (Not killing worms)
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+ Show Spoiler +On July 31 2010 03:12 SoMuchBetter wrote:i finally managed to finish it on brutal minus nydus worms. i used bc/viking/vessels/thor/flame turrets to do it. i also got the achievement for using the artifact blast once, not because i wanted to get it but rather because i never under enough pressure until the end - rax walls at both choke points. i didnt do a proper wall, just had 3 rax surrounding the bunker you get at the start. i tried to keep the bunker alive but its not really that important. i added a few depots to make a perfect wall later on.
- spam flame turrets and keep 3-4 tanks & turrets at each entrance.
- keep a number of turrets (3-4) and a flame turret behind your mineral line and leave a couple of vikings to deal with broodlords. a flame turret next to your merc lab gets rid of the annoyance of the random zerg spawn
- 2 turrets and a flame turret next to the supply depot cluster basically kills the overlord drop without you having to look at it, the overlords come after the first air raid on your mineral line so use that as a cue.
- i only ever had 3-4 thor at any one time, just to use the barrage ability to get the stun off on kerrigan. once the stun gets going get your bc to attack her and try to keep her stun locked. i upgraded my thors to get an AoE effect, i think it may have fucked with the stun since it doesnt seem to work 100% of the time if at all, but the damage helps
- leave a small squad of vikings (3 or 4) both entrance to take out broodlords. focus more attention on the top wall since it seems to get more broodlords. aim to have about a dozen all up.
- keep building scvs the entire game because you need to keep reinforcing your walls with repairers and turrets. this is important otherwise you will fall behind economically and wont be able to afford the constant stream of units, turrets and upgrades that you need
- after you take out the 85% kerrigan start walling off the high ground and spamming as many flame turrets as you can behind the artifact (so they dont get taken out by broodlords). as your wall starts to break around 90% lift off everything and try to cram the highground with as much shit as possible, summon whatever mercs you can afford and throw all your scvs and shit there as well. ignore the mutas and focus fire down the broodlords with yamato/vikings since them and zerglings are going to be the only thing that will hit the artifact, the rest will run into the imbalanced vessel/bc wall
- its important to keep your bc/viking army in front of the artifact so they shoot down broodlords/mutas before they can get a shot off on your artifact. i had my bcs supporting the top wall since its harder to hold for whatever reason also.
- save it before you fight the 80% kerrigan just in case things go sour. it will autosave after she dies so you can reload from that
- at 95% or so fire off the artifact. if the artifact still has full health and you have a decent amount of units left you win, since zerglings wont spawn in time to overrun you. just keep up the focus fire on the broodlords
Since I had neither the stun of the barrage (i didnt expect it to work on "boss mobs" like kerrigan), flame turrets and science vessels, I dont think I can ever master it on brutal without the nyduxxes - at least not the way you discribed - kerrigan killed me every time... i could achieve it on brutal w/o air ... but i have to say ... well done, sir!
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hmm i wish there was a way to put up campaign mission replays XD anyways, i've done this mission on brutal in both modes. i’ve also managed to get that ‘Aces High’ achieve on brutal in ground mode.
first, dealing with ground is much easier then the air version. i'll try give the best insight i can on both.
General
Front line should be like 3 bunkers making a wall with all your siege tanks behind.
Siege Tanks were my main killing unit
Always had my mineral line saturated
Always had 3ish scvs at both choke points, when they die (and they will) get more from your mineral line.
Upgrades help
Hiring mercenaries help (tanks, banshees and vikings for air mode)
Ground Version (Nydus Worms)
Start off getting like 3-4 tanks and a couple bunkers at both choke points, i'm not sure for you, but for me i felt bottom choke was always easier to defend so i used less tanks there. i also put a couple on the middle high ground area.
When you have like 6-8 tanks get 2x Starports and start pumping out Banshees. You want to constantly be making banshees and have about 24 or so.
While making those banshees you want to slowly make more and more tanks (1 factory producing is enough)
You'll eventually have your minerals build fairly high, i used them to build extra bunkers at the front and around my base in random spots, i also built turrets around cause overlords eventually come and drop.
In the end I had about 10-15 tanks at both chokes with like 2-4 on the top middle area.
Now with your banshees you want to take out those nydus worms as fast as you can without losing them to hydras.
Banshees are also your main damage dealer to Kerrigan. You have to be real careful and not lose them (really really important) to Kerrigans aoe spell and only tell them to attack when she is attacking your bunkers.
Air Version (Muta/Broods/That big zerg flying thing)
(note: I didn’t do ‘Aces High’ in air version)
Same set up as ground mode.
Bunkers and tanks at the front.
Turrets everywhere.
Mass Vikings, you want about 32 vikings, 2 control groups with 16 each.
You want one control group watching middle and top side of your base.
You want your other control group watching bottom side and the back of your base.
Obviously if you need to watch back and left is under attack by brood lords you send the other group to kill them.
When the big flying zerg thing comes, wait till it stops before you send in your vikings, you want to send in all 32 and make sure you SPREAD them out.
Also Kerrigan is a lot more annoying, I used 2x Thor’s stun on her to stop her from killing all my tanks.
This sounds fairly easy but it is quite a hectic mission, you need to be constantly doing stuff and second stuff dies you need to replace is asap. It is way less forgiving then ground mode
choke setup (in the process of making more banshees)
+ Show Spoiler +
anyways gl hf
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On July 31 2010 02:40 MangoTango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 02:34 Stratos_speAr wrote:On July 30 2010 21:55 TheFinalWord wrote:On July 30 2010 21:44 VonLego wrote:
I was having a lot of fun with all the anti-air goodies I had recently picked up and figured it would be the way to go -- didn't know there was such a huge difficulty gap between the missions.
That being said the "nuke the canals" mission is a ton of fun and those who took out the air should go back and play it. have you played with the nydus in the last mission. Its still very hard. Are you sure the flyers aren't offset by the severly reduced ground forces? Nydus Worms really aren't a problem because Tanks at your entrances take out any that pop up in your base. Seriously. Mass Tanks and you don't even need to go out and take out the Nydus Worms. Did it on Brutal and it was pure rape. ...Until Kerrigan comes and Storms/1-shots all your tanks. Any units you have remaining are firing at Kerrigan, and 7694768974356 hydras/ultras are stacked up behind her ready to smash your face when she goes down.
20 Tanks > Kerrigan.
I've done it twice, once on Brutal and once on Hard. Trust me. As long as you don't place your Tanks in a bad spot you'll be fine.
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maybe it has to do something with upgrades ive bought but for me air was a lot easier then nydus to defend against. Like A LOOT.
tSlayer told me he went " 3 barracks with 2 reactor 1 tech lab 2 starprot 1 techlab 1 reactor and 1 fact with tech lab" in his succesfull attempt and thats exactly what i did.
I also built 3 CCs right away. You have to produce scvs non stop, youll lose like 200/200 scvs on repair alone.
I built thors, vikings and science vessels and marines.(i first tried firebats and medics too but realized that bunkers and flame turrets are much more worthy substitutes).
Kept putting up bunkers/flame turrets/turrets non stop.
Both thors/SV and vikings/SV are mobile. Thors patrol the choke points while vikings patrol both front and a small group in separate control for the back area as well.
The flying monster is very easy if you spread ur vikings, imagine fighting an archon with muta.
Past like 93% i just lifted all my buildings and landed around my army on highground.
That was it. As soon as i knew what unit mix to build it took me like 2 tries and under 10 reloads.
Was real easy.
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Still think take out air and mass tanks is the best/easiest way to o this with.
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im too frustrated. im on that mission for 3 days now (yes, all other missions were easy, but im too stupid to manage this mission...)
makes me wantto deinstall.
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On July 31 2010 09:51 Snowfield wrote:
Still think take out air and mass tanks is the best/easiest way to o this with.
i just tried it and the first kerrigan ~30% just walked up and raped a side that had like 12 tanks
I don't think i have the damage upgrade though : /
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On July 31 2010 13:28 Backpack wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 09:51 Snowfield wrote:
Still think take out air and mass tanks is the best/easiest way to o this with. i just tried it and the first kerrigan ~30% just walked up and raped a side that had like 12 tanks I don't think i have the damage upgrade though : /
I don't think tanks are that great against kerrigan because she seems to have some sort of hardened shield ability like immortals except that it never runs out (On brutal at least). The fastest way to kill her always seemed to be marines for me. I tried sniping/yamato/thor cannon/tanks and none of them did much damage.
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I actually do have the damage upgrade, but i guess i'll try with marines.
Her aoe just destroys my tanks at the top choke : /
edit: it worked, got my kerrigan portrait :D
tanks and marines are all you need
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I found marines being the best way to kill Kerrigan. I had Nydus Worms though. Had like 5-6 Banshees (used the Merc) and kept killing Nydus worms through those. With Marines the first few waves with Kerrigan are super easy, really gives you alot of time to plan and get your economy up and rolling.
Some people would think that Kerrigan AoE will rip apart Marines, which is true, but when you have like 5 Barracks with reactors pumping, you can have a strong standing army within a minute. Also you need to spread Marines. Send in 1 group > they get owned > Kerrigan also wastes her AoE quite a bit. So if you get a lot of Marines stimmed shooting at her, she falls fast.
At around 80% I massed bunkers and made tower defense type of building structure on my upper ground. At around 90% I had to evacuate up there. Put my tanks so much to the side as possible, filled with them bunkers with my marines, spammed supply depots on the entrance / any holes and basically had all my SVCs there too, was cramped as hell, but won me the game.
Btw damn, it seems those flame thrower turrets are pretty strong. Didn't tech to them.
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Bah, I'm at 99.7% on Brutal vs Air. I can't finish :O! Usually I have about 8-10 vikings and 2 BCS left after a 95% Nova pulse but it doesn't matter because the zerglings overwhelm the vikings on the ground. Then Kerrigan comes and I tried floating buildings to distract her from the Artifact but either the hydras/mutas/zerglings finish it off or she isn't distracted enough and comes and kills it.
The strategy I'm using to get to 99.7% is the PF turret / turret / mass SCVS + vikings/bcs/thors strategy suggested by SoMuchBetter. I'd also highly recommend building the extra CCs because you will definitely need them (as Sfydjklm mentioned.)
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phu.. so.. I have been struggling with AIR for 6~ hrs. My record was 97% with BC and tanks, but it was soo hard coming there, but after 10~ loads I realized it wasent possible to get 100%. I dont have ANY of the good upgrades needed to make this easy. No splat upgrades, nothing.
After that 97% failure I went to bed, both angry and exhausted.
While I was trying to fall asleep I was thinking about the campaign. Wondering how I could be so damn stupid and not upgrading all "GOOD" stuff.
After about 5minutes I come to think of it... Didn't I researched a "mind controll tower"?
So I went up and booted SC2 again to try it out.
Mhmm ohh yah there it was. Massing out "mind controll" towers all over the place. Take controll over Mutas and BroodLords made me insta win without even a struggle ;D
It was so easy that it kinda felt like cheating.
So if you are like me... Missing all "GOOD" upgrades, then pray u choosed MindControll ;}
Now I can go back to sleep happy!
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I actually thought this level was pretty simple once you got the winning combination. I took out the air units (because I can't stand the thought of dealing with broodlords, and I can just have all of my units attack ground) in the previous mission and played it on brutal mode.
Essentially, the whole deal with the mission for me was to build a crapton of tanks and wall off all entrances. On the left, you can wall off the lower ramp with 4 bunkers and the top with 3 bunkers. Put at least a firebat in each one, and have SCVs repairing. On the right, wall off with 3 planetary fortresses, and have SCVs repairing that too. Mass tanks from 2 factories (4 factories if you don't have the tech reactor upgrade) and just spread them out behind your barricade. Use a few banshees to take out the Nydus worms.
When the big drop comes, just take it out with an artifact blast. Aside from that, it's basically watching zerg units run into tank and PF fire.
Edit: And I didn't end up using the zerg research structure thingies, no particular reason why.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img835.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010073105065.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://img576.imageshack.us/i/screenshot2010073105053.jpg/)
