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I can't believe people are just realizing this. Metzen isn't half as good as he gets credit for. He just tears plot-lines and story ideas from popular culture (or even his own games in the case of the who Sylvanas/Arthas/Kerrigan storylines). He's not that amazing of a universe builder.
I'm not just realizing this but it's finally become solidified in my mind.
Overall I was pretty disappointed. I replayed SC and SC:BW last week and they are much better in allot of ways. Obviously they can't match everything that new technology allowed blizzard to do. But I think they are leaps and bounds above WOL story wise.
I'll explain my thoughts below. Spoiler Alert.
+ Show Spoiler +
Short Version:
The only missions that were really interesting story wise were the Protoss ones. They progressed the story forward far more then the Terran missions. Which is a shame since it's not their campaign.
If they try and take the Zerg and make them like the Orcs in WC3 I'm gona cry.
The core story comprises about 4-5 missions. And it's also very weak and underdeveloped.
6 years and $100 million? For what? 3 real Cut scenes?
The first two or so missions I was actually shocked at how bad the dialogue and overall feel was. I had no idea that the Character Tychus Findlay(Is this guys voice Uncle Ruffus from the "Boon Docks"?) was going to be mostly comic relief. By the end of the 2nd mission I was already thinking I'd been duped. By the end of the 3rd mission I just decided to turn off my prejudices and give the game all the chances it needed. Just like you do for bad movies that can be fun if you just go along with it.
So I play about 15 more missions all the while thinking "is the story ever going to start?". Almost all of the first missions advance the main storyline very little. It is filled with all these subplots that are more or less entertaining but don't do much for the main plot. We collect pieces of the artifact which we'll need later. But really that could of been compacted into 1 mission. You could tell they were stretching what seemed like very little to begin with even more thin.
It makes me wonder what happened at Blizzard and what were the reasons behind splitting the story into 3 separate campaigns. I remember someone at blizzard. Maybe Dustin Browder saying there was just so much to tell or something. Simply not true. A mater of fact the whole Terran campaign seems out of balance. Like it's trying to tell a story line it was never intended to tell. And in the end couldn't. I'm referring to the Protoss missions. It was fun to play the Protoss but why were they needed? It would of been cool if we learned something interesting from them but really they were the biggest part of the actual story. The Main plot didn't even get kicked off until Zeratul came into the game. Without those missions nothing would of made sense. This just looks like very poor planning or very rushed. Neither or which makes sense because were looking at roughly 6 years of development and $100million?
Whats even more bazaar is that with all these pointless sub plots the main story was really underdeveloped. So many missed opportunities. For instance. In the final mission Kerrigan is returned to her human form. And from the looks of it she seems to be her old loving self. Yet we hardly got to see Kerrigan at all in WOL in her Zerg form. She showed up only to say a few words and have Jim out smart her or straight up beat her in every mission. The only real interactions came from the Protoss missions. Even though we knew Kerrigan from SC and SC:BW, in WOL she is basically a minor character. In the context of this story, does anyone even care what happens to her? Her character was just extremely underdeveloped.
By the time I reached the end it became apparent that the core of the story. What it was all about, comprised about 4-5 missions. Get artifact. Meet Valerian Mengsk. Learn everything you need to know from Zeratuls missions. Go get Kerrigan. The only remarkable subplot was trying to broadcast that tapped recording of Emperor Mengsk. It could probably of been considered a main plot as well. But was overshadowed by Kerrigans story.
There just wasn't much there. Which is unexplainable because as I said above. 6 years and $100 million. And nothing to show for it but 4-5 missions of actual progression of SC lore.
By far the largest disappointment was that I got a very heavy feeling of Warcraft leaking in. In Warcraft 3 the we all kinda found out that the Blood Thirsty Orcs who were the "bad guys" weren't so bad after all. Turns out they just made a few mistakes along the way. And that their evil masters (the Burning Legion) were actually the bad guys. So now everyone can be friends and fight the real bad guys.
I thought that was pretty clever of Metzen. It really added allot of depth to the Orcs and to the whole Warcraft universe. Suddenly everything was connected in a new way. But now it seems like they are trying to do the same thing with the Zerg. In WOL we find out that the Overmind was actually a sorta good guy??? And that he came up with the whole Kerrigan plan to throw an extra dice into the Xel'Naga's plans.
This is speculation at this point because we don't know where they're gona go with the next chapter. Which will be the Zerg Campaign. But don't be surprised if come the next game we find out the Zerg were once a shamanistic race of Larva things who built a proud culture on Zerg Land.
I don't know were the story is headed but it was just scary hearing Zeratul talk to Tassadar about the Overmind being good and all. I really hope Metzen isn't a one trick pony and that they have something good planned for the direction of the story.
Overall. There was allot of Fluff. And what was there wasn't all that great. I did enjoyed it though. And I think most people will. You kind of have too. After all. You just shelled out $60 and if you go tell your friends or write a post on a forum about how it was acceptable just because it's what we got but wasn't really that great. Well. Then people might not like you.
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Here are my thoughts, Spoilers inside.
+ Show Spoiler +I went in not knowing how long the campaign was, so I assumed it would be about 50 since the first 12 or so did absolutely nothing for the story line. It ended up being 26, and I can say that none of them besides the final mission and the Zeratul missions were memorable. Perhaps the biggest letdown of all was the ending cinematic. The fact the this "Queen of Blades", the biggest 'known' threat to both the Protoss and the Terran is defeated after 20ish forgettable missions? Not only defeated, but beaten by a ragtag group of rebels and half of the dominion fleet and RESTORED TO HER OLD SELF, Awwwwww how sweet. Its laughable. At the end of Brood War the admiral is so torn up about killing his best friend that he puts a bullet in his head. The softness of this ending is so far removed from Starcraft its not even recognizable.
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Brutal is riddicoulusly (i probably spelled that wrong) easy  But beating some of the achivements on brutal is alot more challening, wich is fun^^
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Missions were pretty well done for the most part, but the story department was a mess.
They start up with some spacecowboy stuff and suddenly the amount of cutscenes dimnish and it turns into cheesy, cheesy stuff. I felt like Raynor's character flipped too much towards the end and it felt like they forgot a lot from the earlier parts of plot. Also for some reason it felt like somewhere in later parts the plot almost skipped fowards to bring it to closure.
The storytelling is completely different compared to the first starcraft, which isn't too bad of a thing, but when fed with enough cliches...
Overall it was decent, but I disliked the way they worked towards ending and the ending itself.
At least I laughed a bit when the campaign suprised me with the terrible terrible damage -line.
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On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.
Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one.
Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs.
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On July 29 2010 06:10 mimsy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan. Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one. Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs.
Again I ask, how exactly was Half-Life a great written story?
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Overall better single player gameplay than SC1, however, what made SC1 great IMO was the interesting back-story and the awesome cut-scenes. In SC1 the whole story of the three races was completely new and obviously more interesting. It would have been great if they in SC2 digged deeper into the stories of the three races, maybe getting more into their history, etc. instead of + Show Spoiler +inventing a new super-race the Xel Naga. Not necessary, the three races are interesting enough.
I also feel the human campaign was like a series of side-missions, I would have liked a clearer direction... also + Show Spoiler +emperor Mengsk was not a good antagonist, he basicly does nothing througout the campaign and gets his ass kicked.
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On July 29 2010 03:26 BlueChipKiwi wrote:
I personally found it hilarious that the dialogue is simple enough for the younger players, but the campaign opens in a bar with drinking and smoking. Interesting choices...
How dare children see a virtual character drink! :D
I'm pretty pleased with it. I don't know what you guys expected, but some of the cheesy lines are kind of in place. Maybe I'm the kind of person that likes to use big words as a method of entertaining people, but things like "lets kick this revolution into overdrive" make me chuckle. And "some things are just worth fighting for" makes sense to me when the story is about some tiny rebel faction trying to take down the government.
And to the people saying that half the missions have no relevance to the actual storyline - I actually like this instead of disliking it. I feel it's a form of "form matches content" presentation where you dont jump straight from drinking rebel to whatever, but actually build up for it.
... and no, I'm 22 >.>
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United States47024 Posts
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.
Note that every one of those games was released before 2000, and that none of them share a genre with Starcraft. Hell, three of them are RPGs that are *known* for their atmosphere. It's sort of unfair to judge the writing in an RTS based on the best-in-genre RPGs--where the experience is driven in large part by the writing.
I think the campaign is good for what it is--the single-player component of a predominantly multiplayer game. Seeing as I usually don't have the drive to slog through campaigns all the way, the fact that I've finished it already speaks to how good I feel it is, even though it didn't wow me in the slightest.
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I'd also like to note that BG, Fallout, Planescape are roleplaying games. It's not surprising that roleplaying games have a lot more substance to it than a game whose primary element is still an RTS. Of course you feel a lot more immersion with the character when he is basically with you the entire playtime, not to mention that you can make the game a lot longer with a lot more plot because you don't have to adhere to RTS elements.
HL was already questioned, but it's still a game where you see a world from the characters eyes, not by micromanaging marines.
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On July 29 2010 07:00 TheTester wrote:
I'd also like to note that BG, Fallout, Planescape are roleplaying games. It's not surprising that roleplaying games have a lot more substance to it than a game whose primary element is still an RTS. Of course you feel a lot more immersion with the character when he is basically with you the entire playtime, not to mention that you can make the game a lot longer with a lot more plot because you don't have to adhere to RTS elements.
HL was already questioned, but it's still a game where you see a world from the characters eyes, not by micromanaging marines.
Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*
There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road.
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On July 29 2010 01:03 Koltz wrote:It does feel watered down... + Show Spoiler +Kerrigan is supposed to save the fucking terran and protoss? Seems like a huge deus ex machina to me. I've wanted revenge ever since she killed Duke and Fenix. Now we have to side with her... again? She already played zeratul. Jim Raynor: "It may not be tomorrow darling, it may not even happen with an army behind my back, but rest assured, I'm going to be man that's going to kill you one day. I'll be seeing you."
Indeed. I'm very disappointed myself.
+ Show Spoiler +And don't forget about Matriarch Raszagal. Seriously, after all that time spent on making Kerrigan so vile and loathsome Blizzard's just going to pull the, "No, no, that was her dark side! She can be purged of such things and become good" gimmick card.
Augh.
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Some of you have some really odd expectations. All blizzard games are a little cheesy, a little cliche, a little goofy. They're all PG-13. Why would you expect different? It's almost as if you hoped starcraft would be like an old friend, and you'd meet up again for some laughs when you were both grown up. There are lots of adult-specific games out there if you want.
The dialogue is interesting, the amount of lore stuffed into every scene is great, the hyperion system is pretty sweet, and the missions are genuinely cool. The only complaint i have is that there's this floaty feeling of timelessness in the sense that it doesn't really matter what you do. Nothing is super pressing. "What's that? People stranded on an infested planet? Ima go play arcade games for a bit... maybe chat with the upgrades dude... Hmm, maybe I'll go do this mining op? Guess I should save those people one of these days... nah more arcade"
Ive been playing through on brutal, about 1/3 done. We'll see how the rest goes
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On July 29 2010 06:18 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 06:10 mimsy wrote:On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan. Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one. Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs. Again I ask, how exactly was Half-Life a great written story?
It wasn't, but that's the beauty of it - it was incredibly immersive without having any story whatsoever. They left just enough mystery, bizarre shit and openings for interpretation, along with all the characters referring to you as Gordon Freeman that you felt like Gordon Freeman.
They pulled it off even better in HL2 with the complete insanity of the situation and answering zero questions about the Combine except what your brain interprets from the occasional sights you see. Organic machines? Cities with moving walls? Faceless soldiers? Gigantic towers? The fuck is going on here?
Planescape Torment had a similar sense of intrigue and mystery even though you played the main character by proxy by pointing him in different directions. You really controlled what the Nameless One was doing, though I really think I'm doing PST a disservice by comparing it to any of these other games. The utter genius and artistic construction of that game is, and will probably forever be, unparalleled.
In SC2, it seems a lot of that mystery and intrigue that makes some video game stories so immersive is missing. You just point Raynor in a direction and off he goes. The story builds incredibly slowly (11 missions in, I don't feel like I've done a damn thing) and its all kind of plotted out for you. It just doesn't seem to be taking itself very seriously, especially when + Show Spoiler +you see a damn Night Elf dancing at the back of the bar
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I'm actually enjoying the SC2 campaign way more than I enjoyed the WC3 one, I never really got convinced by Arthas... but to each their own.
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Calling it now, Kerrigan is still going to be corrupt and bitter and everything. I must believe >:O
She's going to burn it all to the ground! Heart of the Swarm better do work :/
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I have no idea what the HotS storyline is going to be about since they just eliminated the only speaking zerg character but left some terran threads hanging.
However, we all know how the LotV campaign will end: the protoss and terran will defeat the evil Xel'Naga who want to destroy the universe and some protoss will give a speech saying after many sacrifices they will no longer have to look up to their old gods and will now be able to independently forge their own destiny.
*GROAN*
Note: LotV will come at about the same time as Diablo III, whose ending will feature some NPC proclaiming that humanity will no longer be slaves to either hell or heaven and will now be able to independently forge their own destiny. Blizzard has 3 books (the Sin War trilogy) that suddenly introduce a reason for heaven to destroy Sanctuary, pretty much just so they can do that particular ending.
*GROAN AGAIN*
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On July 29 2010 06:18 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 06:10 mimsy wrote:On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan. Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one. Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs. Again I ask, how exactly was Half-Life a great written story?
Yeah the original half life didn't really have much of a story :/
On July 29 2010 03:18 Dragonsven wrote:
I think you guys have rose-colored glasses on when you look back at the SC campaign. Remember we were 10+ years younger back then. Obviously the single player is geared towards teenagers so a lot of us are going to find it childish. We're getting old, GG.
No not really. This entire campaign was just badly written. I thought we were going to get the equivalent of 3 campaigns for a single race. Turns out we got 1 campaign worth of content that just lasts a really long time
The dialogue was passable I guess, objectively.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 29 2010 07:19 Madkipz wrote:
Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*
There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road.
The story for Dawn of War singleplayer (assuming that's the Warhammer you're referring to) is just as trite as SC2's if not more so. Warcraft 3's storyline is just as derivative of Starcraft as Starcraft 2 is of Warcraft 3, and the C&C series is deliberately over-the-top. I'd hardly call any of them engaging and immersive.
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On July 29 2010 09:22 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 07:19 Madkipz wrote:
Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*
There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road. The story for Dawn of War singleplayer (assuming that's the Warhammer you're referring to) is just as trite as SC2's if not more so. Warcraft 3's storyline is just as derivative of Starcraft as Starcraft 2 is of Warcraft 3, and the C&C series is deliberately over-the-top. I'd hardly call any of them engaging and immersive.
Theirs a difference between original and memorable or immersive. Nobody is criticizing Starcraft 2 because it "derivative". WC3 had a far more immersive and well told single campaign then Starcraft 2 easily, without question.
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