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SC2 Campaign aimed for 13 year old boys?

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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Nordy
Profile Joined May 2010
United States34 Posts
July 28 2010 15:49 GMT
#1
I understand Blizzard was shooting for a much wider audience with their sequel. But the character dialogue is laughably bad. I've played about 8-10 hours, and the whole story so far feels very watered down when compared to its predecessor. Overall, I'm pretty disappointed with the storytelling so far. I'm wondering if anyone else feels this way too about the game.

That said, the gameplay, while slow to take off, is a whole lot of fun. Maybe a bit too easy, but still a fun experience.
krypti_c
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States64 Posts
July 28 2010 15:51 GMT
#2
On July 29 2010 00:49 HandBanana wrote:
Maybe a bit too easy, but still a fun experience.


1)Play on brutal
2)Cry
3)?????
4)Profit

User was warned for this post
graphene
Profile Joined May 2010
Finland211 Posts
July 28 2010 15:52 GMT
#3
im 15 and it sounds dumb :D
cloud computing is the future
wishbones
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada2600 Posts
July 28 2010 15:54 GMT
#4
yeah how is brutal, surprisingly enough hard isnt that hard, either that or its because im a sc player, just saying that because when i try wc3 hard, i get ass rammed. But here on sc2 hard i am doing the ramming.. So yeah how is brutal no i wont try it, you guys are here to report to me. xD
joined TL.net in 2006 (aka GMer) - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=41944#2
Drunken.Jedi
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany446 Posts
July 28 2010 15:55 GMT
#5
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 15:56:57
July 28 2010 15:56 GMT
#6
I'm totally in agreement with your positions :/. I'm hugely disappointed with the storytelling as well, but in general mission design has been very fun and well done. And if you play on brutal, challenging as well.
Too Busy to Troll!
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
July 28 2010 16:01 GMT
#7
I've one of the more recent players, I only played starcraft a couple of months ago and only then saw the cinematics of that game, honestly, starcraft 2 is a huge improvement over it, the acting in the first was so horrible bad it was funny, not to mention the cinematics were really short, (only later on a tad longer) whilst here a campaign that slowly unfolds with alot to be said. I think the number of cinematics is about ten fold the number of in SC1. (I mean also the ingame cutscenes on the hyperion etc).



Pokemon Master
Xenjin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States11 Posts
July 28 2010 16:02 GMT
#8
I agree. It's not that the story is bad it's just the way it's presented that is really sloppy. It just seems all over the place. It does seem a little on the immature side too. Not sure If i'm disappointed with it or not.
Oracle
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Canada411 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 16:31:43
July 28 2010 16:03 GMT
#9
MOD EDIT: Stay away with spoilers in a non spoiler topic.

User was warned for this post
Rhinoceros
Profile Joined March 2010
United States7 Posts
July 28 2010 16:05 GMT
#10
My favorite part is 'This is a commander I can get behind'. I guess Blizzard thought Raynor was such a weak character in SC2 that they vocally needed to tell us that he's a 'commander we can get behind'.

Runner up line:

"Lets kick this revolution into overdrive!'

I can't believe Chris Metzen is paid for this.
Rhinoceroses dont wear shirts.
Fontong
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States6454 Posts
July 28 2010 16:06 GMT
#11
Yeah, you aren't the only one who is finding the storyline childish. The dialogue more often then not sounds like George Lucas wrote it, which is pretty damn bad. Oh well.

At least you can + Show Spoiler [Campaign spoilers inside] +
upgrade your SCVs with Dual fusion cutters, SNAP!
[SECRET FONT] "Dragoon bunker"
Terrakin
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1440 Posts
July 28 2010 16:07 GMT
#12
Why did they spend so much money on the single player or extra voice acting.. All they needed was like 5 competent writers who are sci-fi fans (or pulp sci-fi fans)

But oh well, its not like single player is the only thing in the game..
Fame was like a drug. But what was even more like a drug were the drugs.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
July 28 2010 16:08 GMT
#13
A game directed at a young demographic? SAY IT AIN'T SO!?!
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
July 28 2010 16:08 GMT
#14
i played like 4 missions and got extremely bored so i quit playing the campaign. now i gotta do some placement matches but tbh i'm scared this time around cuz unlike the beta, these placement matches actually matter.
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
emucxg
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Finland4559 Posts
July 28 2010 16:09 GMT
#15
Dont really care about the campaign, I buy starcraft because it's map-editor =/
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:10:54
July 28 2010 16:09 GMT
#16
On July 29 2010 01:02 Xenjin wrote:
I agree. It's not that the story is bad it's just the way it's presented that is really sloppy. It just seems all over the place. It does seem a little on the immature side too. Not sure If i'm disappointed with it or not.

Yeah, this is basically how I feel as well - for instance, + Show Spoiler [Hanson subplot] +
the whole Hanson storyline just felt extremely weak. Good missions, but the way it was resolved just felt like I was watching an 80's pre-show recap of events
.

Missions are getting progressively more fun, tho I'm longing for a mission where I won't have a command center.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
July 28 2010 16:10 GMT
#17
Brutal is frakking hard. The last mission is pretty challenging even on Hard. I tried it on Brutal and didn't last 10 minutes heh.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
July 28 2010 16:10 GMT
#18
I also feel single player is kinda weak. It's just random dialogue for a plotline, and brutal difficulty is about figuring out what to do instead of actually doing it. Oh well, multiplayer still okay.
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
July 28 2010 16:11 GMT
#19
I find the news reels to be pretty funny, sorta like a running joke highlighting what missions you just did. Brutal may not be impossible, but some missions are challenging. And honestly, its quite polished and well made, SC1 just has nostalgia...
hohoho
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 28 2010 16:12 GMT
#20
I'm probably 40-50% into the campaign, and the story is incredibly cliched so far. On some levels, it's a rehash of WC3. I don't really have a reason to give a crap about any of the characters yet. In fact, Blizzard unnecessarily goes out of its way to make you wonder about the allegiance of almost all of the characters.

I'll reserve final judgment until I finish the campaign, but, right now, I'm very disappointed.
Fitzhunt1
Profile Joined February 2010
United States169 Posts
July 28 2010 16:13 GMT
#21
As someone who did not play the SC1 campaign I see no problems with SC2 campaign. Maybe you don't like it because you had too high of expectations?
Blizzcon exclusive no donuts.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25993 Posts
July 28 2010 16:13 GMT
#22
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.
Moderator
OreoBoi
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada1639 Posts
July 28 2010 16:15 GMT
#23
I'm disappointed by the decision to make it a only terran focused campaign. In SC1 and BW, it was 10 missions per race and every mission had an important story impact. This new model is completely a money grabbing tactic, as the 30 missions have the same amount of story as the 10 missions in BW.
There are too many filler missions that don't do anything. The collecting minerals mission was completely pointless, it had no impact except to introduce Tosh. There also seems to be no plot development inside of a mission like there was in SC1. You just do a mission, and then you get plot.
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
July 28 2010 16:17 GMT
#24
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


News reporter is hit or miss. If you like it, you watch it; otherwise, just don't click the television, I guess. But yea, Starcraft is pretty much known for its over the top cheesyness. The whole premise of Redneck Marines in Space is cheesy IMO. On the otherhand, if Diablo 3 has such cheesyness then we should be worried.
hohoho
Necrosjef
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom530 Posts
July 28 2010 16:18 GMT
#25
I've finished 12 missions of 29 on Brutal. Some are harder than others, generally it isn't that hard though, the missions I had trouble with were generally because I missed something on the 1st attempt. Upon the second attempt they are pretty easy.

Hardest mission I have done so far is the one where you gotta destroy the infested villages, they seem to become infested very quickly and this leads to a constant stream of those abhoritions coming in. I beat it on the second attempt using Medic Marine and just not using Vikings at all.
Europe Server Diamond Player: ID=Necrosjef Code=957
teamsolid
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada3668 Posts
July 28 2010 16:19 GMT
#26
Yea, honestly go try playing SC campaign again and you'll see how lame a lot of the dialogue there was as well. It's definitely a huge improvement in SC2 over the original.
sikyon
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1045 Posts
July 28 2010 16:22 GMT
#27
I like the way it's run. SCI's storyline was "stronger" in that it was extremly linear and you were basically being told a story.

In comparison, when I play SCII I feel like I am actually "in" the story. I like slowing uncovering information as I go along,

I don't know if any of you have played Dungeons and Dragons, or another similar DM based RPG. There's 2 scenarios - the plot where you get put on the "rails" crafted by the DM and you, as a player, are just there for the ride. Alternativly, what you do ulitmatly matters and changes things around for you somewhat, but you will still probably end up in the same place the DM had planned because you are steered in that direction.

So I will argue that while it is true SCII's story is not as strong as SCI, it is more pesronally engrossing. By interacting with the characters consistently, I am drawn into the stroy and drawn to care about them more than in SCI, which just had mission briefings and a few cutscenes.
captainwaffles
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1050 Posts
July 28 2010 16:23 GMT
#28
I finished the campaign, (17 or so hours on Hard) I have to say I'm pretty satisfied, the mission design clearly had tons of effort put into it, and the story itself is good (considering its the first of 3).

I'm definitely going to play on brutal next go around, not in one sitting again... god that was brutal in itself.
https://x.com/CaptainWaffless
QuantumDarkness
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation6 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:25:48
July 28 2010 16:25 GMT
#29
Obviously they were aiming at WoW general masses with solo campaign. So.....well, that kinda says it all.
setzer
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3284 Posts
July 28 2010 16:26 GMT
#30
I've only completed a few missions so far (playing on Brutal), but I feel the real difficulty is when attempting the achievements while still trying to complete the mission objectives.

+ Show Spoiler +
It took me quite a few tries to kill off four hatcheries on Brutal for that achievement. Not losing a single structure also seems quite hard and maybe even impossible unless you scale the difficulty down.
Daralii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States16991 Posts
July 28 2010 16:26 GMT
#31
On July 29 2010 01:12 xDaunt wrote:
I'm probably 40-50% into the campaign, and the story is incredibly cliched so far. On some levels, it's a rehash of WC3. I don't really have a reason to give a crap about any of the characters yet. In fact, Blizzard unnecessarily goes out of its way to make you wonder about the allegiance of almost all of the characters.

I'll reserve final judgment until I finish the campaign, but, right now, I'm very disappointed.
This pretty much. I'll give them credit for the length of the campaign and I guess that making the Zerg more three dimensional is good, but it takes away the sheer terror that they brought with them in SC1.


+ Show Spoiler +
It really does feel like WC3 though, only this time we find that Arthas was created specifically to fight the Burning Legion. Not to mention it retcons Tassadar's death a little, he was supposedly destroyed so utterly that no trace of him remained, physically or psionically, yet he appears as a ghost. Zeratul the time traveler seems pretty silly too.
Fear is freedom! Subjugation is liberation! Contradiction is truth!
fantomex
Profile Joined June 2009
United States313 Posts
July 28 2010 16:27 GMT
#32
I hate how obvious it is that all these voice actors recorded their lines separately. They do this for just about every animated movie and you can't tell, but video games just haven't figured it out.
Replay or GTFO
EppE
Profile Joined July 2010
United States221 Posts
July 28 2010 16:27 GMT
#33
I honestly don't mind the difficulty of the campaign. If you are at all good at Micro you will destroy pretty much every mission. It took me like 8 campaigns before I realized you could change the game speed. That was my only compliant was production/combat felt slow but now that it's on fastest it's nice again.
Nihilnovi
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden696 Posts
July 28 2010 16:27 GMT
#34
Well my problems were:

Brutal was not nearly hard enough.
The storyline was ridiculously bad, the acting was horrible and the whole thing felt like Toy Story in space.
I feel that when looking back, the only thing I will remember from this campaign is the last cinematic and the last level of the crystal missions, other than that you're just flying off to random locations in space for $$(or credits, w/e).
CurSeD
Profile Joined March 2009
Canada20 Posts
July 28 2010 16:28 GMT
#35
Having played SC1 campaign just before the release of the sequel, I must say the story and dialogue of SC2 is FAR better. In SC1, the mission are really straight forward, the dialogue, even if they are still good, are less ''profound'' than those in SC2. Now, you are more into the characters and the storyline. Nonetheless, I'm still a fan of the SC1 campaign.
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
July 28 2010 16:31 GMT
#36
The story telling is extremely poor and most of the writing/dialogue/sounds are cliche and downright disappointing. I'm heavily disappointed by the campaign, it's so generic. I guess the melee will still be good..
Hark!
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:32:16
July 28 2010 16:31 GMT
#37
On July 29 2010 01:17 RifleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


News reporter is hit or miss. If you like it, you watch it; otherwise, just don't click the television, I guess. But yea, Starcraft is pretty much known for its over the top cheesyness. The whole premise of Redneck Marines in Space is cheesy IMO. On the otherhand, if Diablo 3 has such cheesyness then we should be worried.


"Just don't click the television"? Really? Are you Steve Jobs in disguise?

It feels really slow. I'm 11 missions in and it feels like I'm just going through the motions unlocking units until eventually, FINALLY, something interesting happens.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
July 28 2010 16:31 GMT
#38
On July 29 2010 01:27 Nihilnovi wrote:
Well my problems were:

Brutal was not nearly hard enough.
The storyline was ridiculously bad, the acting was horrible and the whole thing felt like Toy Story in space.
I feel that when looking back, the only thing I will remember from this campaign is the last cinematic and the last level of the crystal missions, other than that you're just flying off to random locations in space for $$(or credits, w/e).


I'd watch Toy Story in Space.
SCbiff
Profile Joined May 2010
110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:34:46
July 28 2010 16:33 GMT
#39
No, if it were for 13-year-old boys, it would have a lot of "bro"s and "huzzah"s, and more swearing. See Gears of War, or Army of Two.

I do think the dialogue is a step down from SC. Not the voice work, just the dialogue itself. Like others, so far, I've cared very little about anybody. Even Raynor, I mean Jim fuggin Raynor, is not really all that great of a character. Maybe it's because of the open nature of the mission system (which I really like), but he seems relatively inert...like he's just wandering around his ship shootin' the shit with people. I mean, I know I'm controlling that, but I'm obviously supposed to click on these people/things to get the lore, and it just makes it seem a little meandering I guess.

I've also missed the awesome cut-scenes that Blizzard is known for. I am always blown away by their cinematics. I know this is because they are able to do it in-game now, and I can appreciate how that adds a continuity to them, but the scenes themselves are much less cool than what I'm used to.

But aside from those few complaints, I'm really liking it so far, so I guess that's not too bad.
D10
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Brazil3409 Posts
July 28 2010 16:34 GMT
#40
Anyone from teamliquid should play only on brutal and never consider tuning it down!

wheres your 1337 pride guys ?

I have to repeat missions sometimes, because when you dont know the map and etc... brutal can get you offguard and end it right then and there
" We are not humans having spiritual experiences. - We are spirits having human experiences." - Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
July 28 2010 16:36 GMT
#41
I can't believe people are just realizing this. Metzen isn't half as good as he gets credit for. He just tears plot-lines and story ideas from popular culture (or even his own games in the case of the who Sylvanas/Arthas/Kerrigan storylines). He's not that amazing of a universe builder.

That being said, there's a campy B-Movie feel to his stories that just feel good if you shut off the front lobe of your brain. You aren't here to be stimulated intellectually, but just to appeal to the baser instincts.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:37:46
July 28 2010 16:36 GMT
#42
On July 29 2010 01:34 D10 wrote:
Anyone from teamliquid should play only on brutal and never consider tuning it down!

wheres your 1337 pride guys ?

I have to repeat missions sometimes, because when you dont know the map and etc... brutal can get you offguard and end it right then and there


I'm more interested in the story at this point. I usually play games on Normal first so I can breeze through it and enjoy the story and exploration. I figured bumping it up to hard was good enough, and it is.

+ Show Spoiler +
On the mission with the drill it was a pain in the ass to collect the relics, because every time I went off to grab one, the massive air assault came. On hard mode its not that big of a deal, but on Brutal, urgh. I just don't wanna deal with that just yet
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
July 28 2010 16:39 GMT
#43
On July 29 2010 01:31 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:17 RifleCow wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


News reporter is hit or miss. If you like it, you watch it; otherwise, just don't click the television, I guess. But yea, Starcraft is pretty much known for its over the top cheesyness. The whole premise of Redneck Marines in Space is cheesy IMO. On the otherhand, if Diablo 3 has such cheesyness then we should be worried.


"Just don't click the television"? Really? Are you Steve Jobs in disguise?

It feels really slow. I'm 11 missions in and it feels like I'm just going through the motions unlocking units until eventually, FINALLY, something interesting happens.


Whats wrong with not clicking the television? If you don't like something don't watch it. Not like the newscasts are important to the story in any sense.
hohoho
Xanrae
Profile Joined March 2008
Belgium53 Posts
July 28 2010 16:39 GMT
#44
I can't believe Chris Metzen is paid for this.


He already implemented his author avatar in the game. Not surprisingly this is the unit that survived all the way despite having no role for 2 years, while units like the soul hunter and lurker were removed for the silliest reasons.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:42:43
July 28 2010 16:41 GMT
#45
On July 29 2010 01:39 RifleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:31 Bibdy wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:17 RifleCow wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


News reporter is hit or miss. If you like it, you watch it; otherwise, just don't click the television, I guess. But yea, Starcraft is pretty much known for its over the top cheesyness. The whole premise of Redneck Marines in Space is cheesy IMO. On the otherhand, if Diablo 3 has such cheesyness then we should be worried.


"Just don't click the television"? Really? Are you Steve Jobs in disguise?

It feels really slow. I'm 11 missions in and it feels like I'm just going through the motions unlocking units until eventually, FINALLY, something interesting happens.


Whats wrong with not clicking the television? If you don't like something don't watch it. Not like the newscasts are important to the story in any sense.


You only know that AFTER you've clicked them every time.

I'm not one of those people that just ploughs through mission after mission without completing all dialogue options. I'm a completionist. Must have taken me 80 hours to get through my first playthrough of Dragon Age.
zingmars
Profile Joined April 2010
Latvia189 Posts
July 28 2010 16:42 GMT
#46
Yeah, they ruined the storyline, but hey. - there will be 2 more expansions. maybe they'll fix it up a bit.
As for campaign - it isn't THAT bad. yeah, maybe it isn't that hard as you could expect, but hey, campaign is meant for that. It's not a diamond league or something like that. =]
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson
Armsved
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark642 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:46:29
July 28 2010 16:43 GMT
#47
I just stomped it on normal. I pretty much only played for the story and I should be playing on the right dificulty online.

I was disapointed in the campaign. The story wasnt very good. The movies in the game sucks major balls, so I didnt feel "rewarded" like in Sc1.

I also think the way terran worked in the campaign was a joke, might be because im only used to multiplayer in beta.

On the other hand, I loved the news. I found that very entertaining even thou the female reporter should had been fired after the 1st few missions.

I mainly enjoyed the protoss mini campaign.

EDIT: Also, why didnt they make the ship like and FPS. I mean there were 4 places and you could just click it and you would show up there. The starmap on the bridge would just show 3 planets if you had 3 missions. If they had made it FPS style and the starmap would shown your location and the location of the missions I would feel like I was actually on a ship. The way it is now feels like its just a good looking menu.
YOOO
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:49:56
July 28 2010 16:48 GMT
#48
On July 29 2010 01:43 Armsved wrote:
I just stomped it on normal. I pretty much only played for the story and I should be playing on the right dificulty online.

I was disapointed in the campaign. The story wasnt very good. The movies in the game sucks major balls, so I didnt feel "rewarded" like in Sc1.

I also think the way terran worked in the campaign was a joke, might be because im only used to multiplayer in beta.

On the other hand, I loved the news. I found that very entertaining even thou the female reporter should had been fired after the 1st few missions.

I mainly enjoyed the protoss mini campaign.

EDIT: Also, why didnt they make the ship like and FPS. I mean there were 4 places and you could just click it and you would show up there. The starmap on the bridge would just show 3 planets if you had 3 missions. If they had made it FPS style and the starmap would shown your location and the location of the missions I would feel like I was actually on a ship. The way it is now feels like its just a good looking menu.


Well then its just a 3D menu. Just wandering around spending time walking through a ship when all you want to do is use a console and do some upgrades or something.

No point adding a 3D FPS section between missions to a strategy game. You'd need a whole different set of controls for walking around and looking about, and for what? If the game was a 3rd-person sandbox adventure, sure. Go for it. But, in this game that's kind of a waste of time and doesn't really fit.
RifleCow
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada637 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:50:10
July 28 2010 16:49 GMT
#49
On July 29 2010 01:41 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:39 RifleCow wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:31 Bibdy wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:17 RifleCow wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


News reporter is hit or miss. If you like it, you watch it; otherwise, just don't click the television, I guess. But yea, Starcraft is pretty much known for its over the top cheesyness. The whole premise of Redneck Marines in Space is cheesy IMO. On the otherhand, if Diablo 3 has such cheesyness then we should be worried.


"Just don't click the television"? Really? Are you Steve Jobs in disguise?

It feels really slow. I'm 11 missions in and it feels like I'm just going through the motions unlocking units until eventually, FINALLY, something interesting happens.


Whats wrong with not clicking the television? If you don't like something don't watch it. Not like the newscasts are important to the story in any sense.


You only know that AFTER you've clicked them every time.

I'm not one of those people that just ploughs through mission after mission without completing all dialogue options. I'm a completionist. Must have taken me 80 hours to get through my first playthrough of Dragon Age.


Either way its technically optional. Its a lot better than say, Mass Effect 2 which is supposed to stand only on its single player merits but still forces you to go through hours of scanning and mining planets. The point of the Newscasts is to be ridiculous, its supposed to be surreal and satirical, sort of like the Fallout series. Though it arguably isn't as witty, I feel it does what it aims to do pretty well and frankly theres barely any unenjoyable moments. The SC2 campaign is better than SC1 campaign imo.
hohoho
Roniii
Profile Joined March 2010
United States289 Posts
July 28 2010 16:49 GMT
#50
On July 29 2010 01:28 CurSeD wrote:
Having played SC1 campaign just before the release of the sequel, I must say the story and dialogue of SC2 is FAR better. In SC1, the mission are really straight forward, the dialogue, even if they are still good, are less ''profound'' than those in SC2. Now, you are more into the characters and the storyline. Nonetheless, I'm still a fan of the SC1 campaign.


yep this is how i feel. i JUST played SC1 original campaign. The story telling in SC2 has a lot more effort put in to it.
you think as i do
Railz
Profile Joined July 2008
United States1449 Posts
July 28 2010 16:50 GMT
#51
All in all, it set up a great campaign for the second game. It was really meant to just to play catch up.
Did the whole world just get a lot smaller and go whooosh?_-` Number 0ne By.Fantasy Fanatic!
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
July 28 2010 16:51 GMT
#52
On July 29 2010 01:49 RifleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:41 Bibdy wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:39 RifleCow wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:31 Bibdy wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:17 RifleCow wrote:
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


News reporter is hit or miss. If you like it, you watch it; otherwise, just don't click the television, I guess. But yea, Starcraft is pretty much known for its over the top cheesyness. The whole premise of Redneck Marines in Space is cheesy IMO. On the otherhand, if Diablo 3 has such cheesyness then we should be worried.


"Just don't click the television"? Really? Are you Steve Jobs in disguise?

It feels really slow. I'm 11 missions in and it feels like I'm just going through the motions unlocking units until eventually, FINALLY, something interesting happens.


Whats wrong with not clicking the television? If you don't like something don't watch it. Not like the newscasts are important to the story in any sense.


You only know that AFTER you've clicked them every time.

I'm not one of those people that just ploughs through mission after mission without completing all dialogue options. I'm a completionist. Must have taken me 80 hours to get through my first playthrough of Dragon Age.


Either way its technically optional. Its a lot better than say, Mass Effect 2 which is supposed to stand only on its single player merits but still forces you to go through hours of scanning and mining planets. The point of the Newscasts is to be ridiculous, its supposed to be surreal and satirical, sort of like the Fallout series. Though it arguably isn't as witty, I feel it does what it aims to do pretty well and frankly theres barely any unenjoyable moments. The SC2 campaign is better than SC1 campaign imo.


Chkuh-pyeeeeeeeoooooooooooo....THUNK.


Chkuh-pyeeeeeeeoooooooooooo....THUNK.


Chkuh-pyeeeeeeeoooooooooooo....THUNK.


Chkuh-pyeeeeeeeoooooooooooo....THUNK.
Mooshrew
Profile Joined July 2010
United States18 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 16:55:53
July 28 2010 16:53 GMT
#53
I'm not finished with it yet, I'm only 16 missions in. So far I'm having a blast. The missions are fun and well structured, the voice acting is actually top notch,the dialog could use some work though. I kinda wish Raynor would get his hands dirty a little more: You only use him in 1 mission (so far anyway), so it seems like he's just shooting the breeze on the Hyperion.

I went through the entire SC and BW campaign just before SC2 came out, and I gotta say most people who say SC1's campaign is leagues better is either lying to themselves or has put up a massive nostalgia block in their minds. I mean sure, SC1 did some things better, but overall I think both games are on par with each other.

I can't wait for the other two campaigns.
rS.Sinatra
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada785 Posts
July 28 2010 16:54 GMT
#54
You guys honestly need to lighten up... remember, the last time you played this story line was probably 10 years ago.. meaning you were 13 years old... its the same fucking story line with the same characters directed to the same audience. Yeah, they didn't compensate for the fact that its 10 years later and things are done a little less cliche for us older audience, but for all the NEW 13 year olds out there, this is probably pretty awesome...

I still love the lore and story line and if you want the non-13 year old version, I suggest you pick up the novels since 90% of you have probably never picked up a book in your life or know how to appreciate quality material literature anyways. A little reading is healthy.
www.rsgaming.com
Armsved
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark642 Posts
July 28 2010 16:57 GMT
#55
On July 29 2010 01:48 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:43 Armsved wrote:
I just stomped it on normal. I pretty much only played for the story and I should be playing on the right dificulty online.

I was disapointed in the campaign. The story wasnt very good. The movies in the game sucks major balls, so I didnt feel "rewarded" like in Sc1.

I also think the way terran worked in the campaign was a joke, might be because im only used to multiplayer in beta.

On the other hand, I loved the news. I found that very entertaining even thou the female reporter should had been fired after the 1st few missions.

I mainly enjoyed the protoss mini campaign.

EDIT: Also, why didnt they make the ship like and FPS. I mean there were 4 places and you could just click it and you would show up there. The starmap on the bridge would just show 3 planets if you had 3 missions. If they had made it FPS style and the starmap would shown your location and the location of the missions I would feel like I was actually on a ship. The way it is now feels like its just a good looking menu.


Well then its just a 3D menu. Just wandering around spending time walking through a ship when all you want to do is use a console and do some upgrades or something.

No point adding a 3D FPS section between missions to a strategy game. You'd need a whole different set of controls for walking around and looking about, and for what? If the game was a 3rd-person sandbox adventure, sure. Go for it. But, in this game that's kind of a waste of time and doesn't really fit.


But the whole point of it was to make it feel like you were on a ship.. A part of the story, but I just didnt feel it. I felt very distant from the characters in the story and the whole enviroment. You know all the things that are common problems with RTS campaigns that blizzard tried to do somthing about.
YOOO
groms
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1017 Posts
July 28 2010 16:57 GMT
#56
Anyone beaten it on brutal yet? I didn't have the balls (or the patience frankly) to even try. I went for hard and cruised my way through although I had a few mistakes here or there that cost me and made me have to restart one or two missions.

I'm just wondering if brutal is even that difficult since hard was just....meh. I expected hard to be HARD. Brutal should be fkin unplayable imo. Normal must be a joke and I can't even imagine what easy is..
I have a recurring dream that I'm running away from a terran player but the marauders keep slowing me down. - Artosis
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
July 28 2010 17:01 GMT
#57
On July 29 2010 01:57 groms wrote:
Anyone beaten it on brutal yet? I didn't have the balls (or the patience frankly) to even try. I went for hard and cruised my way through although I had a few mistakes here or there that cost me and made me have to restart one or two missions.

I'm just wondering if brutal is even that difficult since hard was just....meh. I expected hard to be HARD. Brutal should be fkin unplayable imo. Normal must be a joke and I can't even imagine what easy is..


I'm on Brutal, but only about 6 missions in. Some missions you have to go back and redo some stuff just because you can't always blind counter some things. I had to fix my unit comp sometimes to address what I discovered the enemy has. That's about it, really. It's not too terrible so far, though Scouts are bad news
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
SONE
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada839 Posts
July 28 2010 17:02 GMT
#58
I loved the + Show Spoiler +
Prophecy Missons, man were they fun. Best missions in the game imo.
sikyon
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1045 Posts
July 28 2010 17:03 GMT
#59
On July 29 2010 01:57 groms wrote:
Anyone beaten it on brutal yet? I didn't have the balls (or the patience frankly) to even try. I went for hard and cruised my way through although I had a few mistakes here or there that cost me and made me have to restart one or two missions.

I'm just wondering if brutal is even that difficult since hard was just....meh. I expected hard to be HARD. Brutal should be fkin unplayable imo. Normal must be a joke and I can't even imagine what easy is..


You know most people havn't played an RTS game in ages and normal is probably decent for them. It's not like when you select "regular" in MW2 you are expected to have the abilities of your average gamer that spends 2 hours a day playing FPS, able to make headshots at 500 yards with a pistol
Housta
Profile Joined April 2010
United States57 Posts
July 28 2010 17:03 GMT
#60
Paramore is pretty much spot on. Nothing more or less. However that one kid from the laboratory is hella annoying. (sterling or something?) His voice and hair pisses me so much, he doesn't fit at all!!!!!! ughh -.-
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
July 28 2010 17:04 GMT
#61
What are people's thoughts on the challenge mode stuff? I got gold medal on the Sentry/HT one on my first try, without too much difficulty.
Gaxton
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden2328 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 17:17:33
July 28 2010 17:14 GMT
#62
"Hurr everyone.
Im playing on casual/easy mode.
And its to easy!!
Durr what to do?!"

Seriously, try brutal and you will have a challenge.
Zexion
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Sweden971 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 17:16:40
July 28 2010 17:16 GMT
#63
Brutal is the only way to go. Man, I've almost lost count of how many times I've reloaded a mission...
carwashguy
Profile Joined June 2009
United States175 Posts
July 28 2010 17:17 GMT
#64
Yeah, but god I love it. It makes me feel like a 13yo boy again.
OMG KILL THEM WITH THORS THEIR SO COOL!
wikitiki
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4 Posts
July 28 2010 17:19 GMT
#65
Yeah so far the whole single player is slightly underwhelming. I can deal with the voice acting, since that really isn't something that most games are good at. The missions seem a bit linear so far too. Upgrade system is pretty cool.

Overall I think the best single player experience has been WC3. That story really engaged me, and took a few twists and turns (including Arthas, who is probably their best character as well). I also preferred the story presentation to take place in the actual game world, because it brought the story into what you were doing instead of feeling sort of slapped on for graphical pleasure.

But really the single player is more of bonus content for me. Sadly I'd pay 60 bucks for MP alone.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25993 Posts
July 28 2010 17:20 GMT
#66
On July 29 2010 01:17 RifleCow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


News reporter is hit or miss. If you like it, you watch it; otherwise, just don't click the television, I guess. But yea, Starcraft is pretty much known for its over the top cheesyness. The whole premise of Redneck Marines in Space is cheesy IMO. On the otherhand, if Diablo 3 has such cheesyness then we should be worried.

I stopped clicking the television until I saw there was an achievement for it ...
Moderator
iloahz
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
United States964 Posts
July 28 2010 17:20 GMT
#67
My biggest problem is that the hottest woman in the entire starcraft universe is the newswoman
Kiante
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Australia7069 Posts
July 28 2010 17:23 GMT
#68
hottest? dude did you not see the doctor or say, kerrigan(pre-infestation)
Writer
Typhon
Profile Joined July 2009
United States387 Posts
July 28 2010 17:27 GMT
#69
Dudes, the news show is hilarious. But then again, maybe I have the humor of a 13-year-old.
carwashguy
Profile Joined June 2009
United States175 Posts
July 28 2010 17:27 GMT
#70
On July 29 2010 02:23 Kiante wrote:
hottest? dude did you not see the doctor or say, kerrigan(pre-infestation)

Nova...
Man we're nerds!
hhrn
Profile Joined May 2010
157 Posts
July 28 2010 17:27 GMT
#71
Shouldn't this be in the Campaign section? Some people don't want the dialog spoiled for them
CHosEN
Nexrad87
Profile Joined June 2010
United States57 Posts
July 28 2010 17:33 GMT
#72
man some people on here just will never be satisfied with anything. Theres always something people have to complain about in SC 2 its getting annoying already. Its a completely different game with a completely different way of telling the story, i dunno how you can say the old one is better in any way. The fact that you can do all kinds of upgrades and research along with interaction is a much better experience than the first. So what the dialogue is somewhat cliche who cares the games amazing and i dunno what else blizz can do to please some of you people its rediculous how critical some of you are
Whalecore
Profile Joined March 2009
Norway1111 Posts
July 28 2010 17:33 GMT
#73
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.

I agree with these guys.

Love the campaign 110% so far!
Playgu
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
July 28 2010 17:33 GMT
#74
On July 29 2010 01:19 teamsolid wrote:
Yea, honestly go try playing SC campaign again and you'll see how lame a lot of the dialogue there was as well. It's definitely a huge improvement in SC2 over the original.


Fenix: I can still - how do you terrans say it? - 'Throw down with the best of them!'
LolnoobInsanity
Profile Joined May 2010
United States183 Posts
July 28 2010 17:34 GMT
#75
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


To tell you the truth, I had the same thought, but luckily+ Show Spoiler +
after a few of the news ones it stops doing that EVERY single time, or at least in different ways. There is however one where the news anchor claims that he always brings the news in the most "fair and balanced" way,
and that just made me laugh my ass off at the blantant fox news hatred. I think that one line made up for all of the other times.

There are definitely a lot of problems with the campaign's storyline, but seriously, what can you expect? Keep in mind this is the Terran campaign too, and the terrans have always had the most boring and lackluster campaign. No one cares about character development when it's centered around a few humans that fit into very boring cliches. In fact, the entire cast is almost exactly the same as that of firefly (another space western setting). Raynor's the heroic captain that's easy to like, being both a rebel and a hero, who's had some past dark times and is on the losing side of some war (Malcolm), Tychus is the big strong angry dude who is somehow weaker than Raynor and likes to go against him but is always defeated (Jayne), Tosh is the mysterious psychic dude who has hidden powers (the Shepard). (Though the fact that he's jamaican is hilarious to me cause he always talks about "the spirits" and the "spirit world" or whatever Jamaican nonsense). Then there's some medic, and some other boring roles.

I've just never enjoyed the Terran campaigns in any of the games. I've always found the Zerg and Protoss characters more interesting, and hopefully their respective campaigns will be much, much better than this cliched drivel with amazing production values.

I just wished they talked more about the overarching story, like the battles and what's going on, instead of character development. They focus way too much on the heroes in this one, which goes against the entire starcraft philosophy. Hero based plot should stick to warcraft.
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
July 28 2010 17:35 GMT
#76
Damn, i didn't receive my copy even now
Hope it will be delivered to me tommorow
I played the campaign, though, not saying here how i did it.+ Show Spoiler +
thanks RELOADED
The campaign seems fairly tough on brutal + Show Spoiler +
especially the mission where u survive against the zergs andvancing and matt horner saves you
But really, the game is all about multiplayer.
Multiplayer is what kept sc1 played for 12 years, not the campaign.
No matter how great the campaign is, in a cpl of years the multiplayer is what counts.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
TotalBiscuit
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United Kingdom5437 Posts
July 28 2010 17:35 GMT
#77
Sounds like a bunch of nostalgia to me to be honest.
CommentatorHost of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
July 28 2010 17:38 GMT
#78
Brutal is quite challenging assuming you don't know how strong the opponent is..

For example,

+ Show Spoiler +
Zero hour third mission, playing on Brutal first time I left the base to go kill the enemy, prob had around ~16 marines 5 medics, and as I'm killing an enemy spine crawler, fucking like 8-10 mutas come, lots of lings, few hydras then an ULTRA unburrows. I was like WTF, I can't even tech stim yet or combat shields, and they throw an Ultra at me?


Although as soon as you've figured the enemy strength out, you can scale accordingly.
TheAngelofDeath
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2033 Posts
July 28 2010 17:41 GMT
#79
I like the campaign. I love cheesy writing, it makes the game all more amusing. I think it's intentional because Terran's are red-necks, so they're trying to make them sound stupid. lol.
"Infestors are the suck" - LzGamer
Amestir
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands2126 Posts
July 28 2010 17:42 GMT
#80
On July 29 2010 02:35 TotalBiscuit wrote:
Sounds like a bunch of nostalgia to me to be honest.



How about this. I never played Sc1 or broodwar. Still I'm fairly dissapointed. I think I'm about half way trough the campain + Show Spoiler +
I just finished the whole protoss side campaign, back to Terran now


I really dislike how almoste every mission involves building a base, for me the irreregular missions where you escort something, or escape from a dungeon are the most fun ones. Also I'm rather annoyed by the amount of units I can get, Terran already has a lot of units but in the campaign it's just to much if you ask me. I understand that from Broodwar players it is great to see some old units, but for me they just needlessly complicate things.

I don't want to end in to much of a rant, I enjoyed the missions I did so far but it's just not as good as I hoped.
We know nothing.
rS.Sinatra
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada785 Posts
July 28 2010 17:47 GMT
#81
On July 29 2010 02:23 Kiante wrote:
hottest? dude did you not see the doctor or say, kerrigan(pre-infestation)


not to mention, infested kerrigan is probably pretty awesome in bed.. i mean.. if you become a being with immense power in which every single characteristic about you is better, the sex better be better too.. knaw'mean?
www.rsgaming.com
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 17:49:41
July 28 2010 17:47 GMT
#82
The thing about SC2's cheesy writing is it's APPROPRIATE (at least the stuff coming from Terrans).

The Marines, and most of the Terran military, are backwater yokels, convicts, or both. They come across as the type of people that would say these cheesy lines thinking they sound cool doing it. It's fitting that they'd say these stupid things with straight faces.

Meanwhile, at least from what I've seen (admittedly not much) the more learned characters have less cheesy dialog like Mengsk.

Maybe less cheese would be better, but I think if you look at it in the way it's portrayed it's somewhat fitting.

Go back and watch some of the cinematics from SC1, the general human (Terran and UED) troops are generally portrayed as very stupid or silly, "I love you sarge!" It's only the high ranking officials like DuGalle that sound refined.
Logo
stafu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia1196 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 17:52:45
July 28 2010 17:50 GMT
#83
I enjoyed the campaign overall, but the dialogue writing was quite bad.

edit: But at the same time I can see it as a style they've gone with. I think it's an attempt to give Terran an abundance of character; stereotyped, cliched, and cheesy, but it's an easy way to give a strong sense of certain character. Heavily influenced by Firefly.
Merikh
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States918 Posts
July 28 2010 17:55 GMT
#84
On July 29 2010 01:13 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.

Agree with everything in this post. Replay SC1 and you will see the dialogue in SC2 is actually many times better. My only issue was with the news reporter as well. Wow this post I am quoting sounds like something I would have written exactly... get out of my head.


Yeah same, I think I said "fuck you reporter" about 10 times so far. lol
G4MR | I mod day9, djwheat and GLHF's stream
Qwerty.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States292 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 18:00:10
July 28 2010 17:55 GMT
#85
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
July 28 2010 18:02 GMT
#86
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


What part of Half-Life was the good writing? It's some of the hackiest story out there.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
ShinnHachirou
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada10 Posts
July 28 2010 18:06 GMT
#87
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


This.

I agree I was expecting much more in SC2 looking at the budget but now it just feels like a waste of money.
Piski
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Finland3461 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 18:08:42
July 28 2010 18:07 GMT
#88
Brutal is the only way to play this. Some mission on brutal are kinda hard but every mission on hard is freakin' easy.
But the story is ok. Not the best, but there were some sillynes on sc and bw campaigns too. Some things are even cool, some lame. But overall I like it.
Also the missions are getting better and better and I love how they are very different and not just "mass 200 food army and A-move to victory"

On July 29 2010 03:06 ShinnHachirou wrote:
This.

I agree I was expecting much more in SC2 looking at the budget but now it just feels like a waste of money.


Saying SC2 is waste of money is going little too far don't you think. The sp story is ok and the mp is insanely good so.. Waste of money, really?
Qwerty.
Profile Joined May 2010
United States292 Posts
July 28 2010 18:08 GMT
#89
On July 29 2010 03:02 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


What part of Half-Life was the good writing? It's some of the hackiest story out there.


I guess what I should've written was immersion, I haven't felt that yet in this campaign to the same extent.
stk01001
Profile Joined September 2007
United States786 Posts
July 28 2010 18:08 GMT
#90
On July 29 2010 01:11 RifleCow wrote:
I find the news reels to be pretty funny, sorta like a running joke highlighting what missions you just did. Brutal may not be impossible, but some missions are challenging. And honestly, its quite polished and well made, SC1 just has nostalgia...


agreed. it's so true that nostalgia is what causes people to think SC1 storytelling & campaign is so much better..

same can be said for the "golden age of gaming" argument thread.. people are always going to view every aspect of their past and their childhood as so much better than the present purely due to nostalgia..

guarantee if you take the nostalgic factor out and take someone who's never played either game and have them play each campagin for the first time they will 100% of the time say SC2 campaign and storytelling is far better..

if fact i think a lot of the people who are refusing to play SC2 because BW is "sooooo" much better are very much influenced by the nostalgic factor yet they don't even realize it..
a.k.a reLapSe ---
Arakash
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany124 Posts
July 28 2010 18:09 GMT
#91
hm I found the missions to be very entertaining, but the whole story around wasn't that good. I Dont think that the story itself is bad but it just feels thin. the whole story of the 20-30 missions could easily fit in a 10-15 mission singleplayer story :/.

like when collecting the parts for the artifacts. It is different everytime, but it adds to the story... well 1 piece of the artifact and thats it :/
kalendae
Profile Joined April 2010
United States47 Posts
July 28 2010 18:09 GMT
#92
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.


Amen. Re-living or re-watching childhood favorites can be a really surprising and perspective altering experience.

And it doesn't even have to involve childhood. When I played diablo 2 recently I was shocked by how poor the graphics are as I remembered it as this really top-notch graphical environment.
Gaxton
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden2328 Posts
July 28 2010 18:12 GMT
#93
On July 29 2010 02:23 Kiante wrote:
hottest? dude did you not see the doctor or say, kerrigan(pre-infestation)


I'd say Kerrigan is hotter POST-infestation.
Whos with me?
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
July 28 2010 18:13 GMT
#94
On July 29 2010 01:03 Koltz wrote:
It does feel watered down...

+ Show Spoiler +
Kerrigan is supposed to save the fucking terran and protoss?
Seems like a huge deus ex machina to me.
I've wanted revenge ever since she killed Duke and Fenix. Now we have to side with her... again?
She already played zeratul.



Jim Raynor: "It may not be tomorrow darling, it may not even happen with an army behind my back, but rest assured, I'm going to be man that's going to kill you one day. I'll be seeing you."


I shouldn't have clicked that quote, couldn't you have done [ spoiler=??? ] instead of just a plain spoiler like the post below?
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
July 28 2010 18:14 GMT
#95
Anybody else dislike the ending? It was like 2 minutes long. My god the story was bad and not fleshed out enough.
Hark!
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
July 28 2010 18:15 GMT
#96
On July 29 2010 03:08 Qwerty. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 03:02 Takkara wrote:
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


What part of Half-Life was the good writing? It's some of the hackiest story out there.


I guess what I should've written was immersion, I haven't felt that yet in this campaign to the same extent.


Fundamental difference between persistent FPS and mission-based RTS, I guess. You're not a single-character in a big story. You're an army in a big story participating in the life-story of the main characters. You're not actually anyone in the story, you act as essentially a proxy for the main characters. That's pretty much the definition of non-immersive, and they haven't pretended to be anything else.
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
{ToT}ColmA
Profile Joined November 2007
Japan3260 Posts
July 28 2010 18:15 GMT
#97
On July 29 2010 01:26 Daralii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 01:12 xDaunt wrote:
I'm probably 40-50% into the campaign, and the story is incredibly cliched so far. On some levels, it's a rehash of WC3. I don't really have a reason to give a crap about any of the characters yet. In fact, Blizzard unnecessarily goes out of its way to make you wonder about the allegiance of almost all of the characters.

I'll reserve final judgment until I finish the campaign, but, right now, I'm very disappointed.
This pretty much. I'll give them credit for the length of the campaign and I guess that making the Zerg more three dimensional is good, but it takes away the sheer terror that they brought with them in SC1.


+ Show Spoiler +
It really does feel like WC3 though, only this time we find that Arthas was created specifically to fight the Burning Legion. Not to mention it retcons Tassadar's death a little, he was supposedly destroyed so utterly that no trace of him remained, physically or psionically, yet he appears as a ghost. Zeratul the time traveler seems pretty silly too.


just for the record, zeratul aint time traveling, these are visions of him we replay
The only virgins in kpop left are the fans
EnderCN
Profile Joined May 2010
United States499 Posts
July 28 2010 18:15 GMT
#98
WC3 and SC campaigns were no different.
gamecreator
Profile Joined July 2010
United States24 Posts
July 28 2010 18:17 GMT
#99
Yeah, the dialogue is pretty lame. "You can't lose as long as you try." Or whatever he said at the end of the first mission? "Some things are worth fighting for." Seriously? Is there a cliche they didn't include?

I've played about 6 missions and I think I'm just gonna skip the talk on the rest of them and just go for upgrades and missions. The only regret is missing the story but I'm spending most of my time wincing so I'm not paying much attention to it anyway.
Dragonsven
Profile Joined April 2010
United States145 Posts
July 28 2010 18:18 GMT
#100
I think you guys have rose-colored glasses on when you look back at the SC campaign. Remember we were 10+ years younger back then. Obviously the single player is geared towards teenagers so a lot of us are going to find it childish. We're getting old, GG.
Fair and balanced.
cronican
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada424 Posts
July 28 2010 18:18 GMT
#101
I'm not sure what you guys were expecting. Shindlers List the video game?
Maginor
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway505 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 18:20:40
July 28 2010 18:18 GMT
#102
In a real dictatorship, that reporter would have been imprisoned and tortured. I sort of lost my fear of Mengsk when she was allowed to keep her job (even though she was cut off all the time). I thought Mengsk was a political mastermind, but he doesn't manage to track down Raynor even once when he bounces between all the Dominion worlds, and he has so little control over his military that his son is able to run away with half the fleet.
yellowmoe
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada59 Posts
July 28 2010 18:19 GMT
#103
I'm just going to put this out there, but the levels would have been better condensed. And judging by the first installment of SC2, I think there would be no need in making this story into a trilogy...

I'm just sayin. :/
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
July 28 2010 18:20 GMT
#104
moved to single player SC2 forum
EliteAzn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States661 Posts
July 28 2010 18:23 GMT
#105
I just find it hilariously fun using units that aren't in multi-player (however, my base is basically m&m...)

My first impression was how bad the basic cut-scenes were...but I've grown use to them. I think the missions are fun, ONLY hard if you try and get the achievements on a harder level.
(╯`Д´)╯︵ ┻━┻ High Five! _o /\ o_
BlueChipKiwi
Profile Joined July 2010
United States46 Posts
July 28 2010 18:26 GMT
#106
I personally found it hilarious that the dialogue is simple enough for the younger players, but the campaign opens in a bar with drinking and smoking. Interesting choices...
Hakker
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1360 Posts
July 28 2010 18:26 GMT
#107
I finished the campaign last night and am seriously impressed by the mission design. There are a few parts where the dialog is cheesy (especially 99% of zeratul's lines) but overall im pleased with what i got to play.
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 18:45:04
July 28 2010 18:35 GMT
#108
I have found the campiagn to be entertaining and funny("do your children use stimpacks?"), but far from enigmatic or interesting like the first games. I'll admit a bit of nostalgia, but I was watching the SC1 cinematics the other day and they're just so much better.

I think one of the problems is stretching a 10 mission story into a 26 mission campaign + a bunch of cinematics and such. So far it all seems a bit uninspired, though I'm still enjoying it.


On July 29 2010 03:18 Maginor wrote:
In a real dictatorship, that reporter would have been imprisoned and tortured. I sort of lost my fear of Mengsk when she was allowed to keep her job (even though she was cut off all the time). I thought Mengsk was a political mastermind, but he doesn't manage to track down Raynor even once when he bounces between all the Dominion worlds, and he has so little control over his military that his son is able to run away with half the fleet.


heh heh, ya mengsk sucks now :D. Before at least he was somewhat cunning.


EDIT: And anyone who says the dialouge is cheesy it was cheesy in SC and BW and every blizzard game for that matter. I don't think that's a bad thing, though .
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
July 28 2010 18:37 GMT
#109
On July 29 2010 03:19 yellowmoe wrote:
I'm just going to put this out there, but the levels would have been better condensed. And judging by the first installment of SC2, I think there would be no need in making this story into a trilogy...

I'm just sayin. :/

Less than half the missions seemed to related to the story at all. Not to say there was much of a story in the first place. I really hated the campaign. Some of the levels were fun to play, but in general it wasn't a fun or interesting experience and I just wanted to get it over with
Louder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States2276 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 18:40:14
July 28 2010 18:39 GMT
#110
With SC1 Blizz was creating an original story. Now the game has 12+ years of history and they have these larger than life notions of characters that they've played to in creating the story. I can picture the script writers talking with the project leads, all hopped on on Bawls, "And then Raynor says LETS KICK THIS REVOLUTION INTO OVERDRIVE - he's so cool". It happens often with sequels.

I guess it's fortunate that for pretty much everyone ever into SC1, the single player campaign being fun and interesting was sort of an added bonus - it was always about the multiplayer experience.

On July 29 2010 03:37 floor exercise wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 03:19 yellowmoe wrote:
I'm just going to put this out there, but the levels would have been better condensed. And judging by the first installment of SC2, I think there would be no need in making this story into a trilogy...

I'm just sayin. :/

Less than half the missions seemed to related to the story at all. Not to say there was much of a story in the first place. I really hated the campaign. Some of the levels were fun to play, but in general it wasn't a fun or interesting experience and I just wanted to get it over with


It feels very Mass Effect-ish with all the random side jobs. Very annoying.
sotmh
Profile Joined May 2010
United States41 Posts
July 28 2010 18:39 GMT
#111
I'm about 50% done with the campaign and I'm pretty happy with it overall. The mission structure is enjoyable. The dialogue is bad, but the dialogue in SC1 was equally lousy, though BW had some good monologues. The plot so far seems ok, it's simple but I wasn't expecting a lot, the Zeratul missions are the best part, IMO.
Mastermind
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada7096 Posts
July 28 2010 18:40 GMT
#112
Ya, I am disappointed with the story. It seems like most of the campaign was just collecting shit with very little story development. When you compare the developments in sc2 to the original sc without bw it doesnt stack up. sc had way more story. Also, many of the lines are very cheesy and I have laughed a few times at them. Although I did really enjoy when the black general says "terrible terrible damage".

The gameplay is pretty fun, but 'hard' was only actually hard for like 2-3 levels and the rest were really easy. I guess I will have to give 'brutal' a go and see if it is challenging enough for me.
Kultcher
Profile Joined May 2010
United States150 Posts
July 28 2010 18:41 GMT
#113
Nostalgia much?

I was just replaying SC1 before SC2 launched and I was saying to myself, "This storytelling isn't as good as remember it." The storytelling in the sequel is leaps and bounds better.
floor exercise
Profile Blog Joined August 2008
Canada5847 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 18:47:31
July 28 2010 18:46 GMT
#114
On July 29 2010 03:39 Louder wrote:
It feels very Mass Effect-ish with all the random side jobs. Very annoying.


That's the vibe I got, like they just played Mass Effect and were like hey, this is pretty cool let's do something like this.

And then it came out as a horrible tedious mess of a game with shitty characters and terrible writing. The more I think about it, the more I realize that it wasn't just a let down, it was a flat out bad experience and I don't ever want to play sp again.
LazerApe
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden206 Posts
July 28 2010 18:48 GMT
#115
Well so far i like the campain, its cheesy, straight to the point and the acting is not as bad as you guys make it out to be which adds up to a fun experince as long you dont take it to seriuosly., the missions are fun and its nice to be able to choose between diffrent types of missions at any point in time, overall i think its a big improvment over SP in other RTSs, hopefully thought, when the zerg campain hits, its not cheesy, because that would just be weird, but for terrans, i think its a hit.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 19:10:28
July 28 2010 19:08 GMT
#116
On July 29 2010 03:18 Dragonsven wrote:
I think you guys have rose-colored glasses on when you look back at the SC campaign. Remember we were 10+ years younger back then. Obviously the single player is geared towards teenagers so a lot of us are going to find it childish. We're getting old, GG.


Oh COME ON! The Protoss trusting Kerrigan and her enslavement of the Matriarch made complete sense!

And just tell me, why WOULDN'T the overpowering armed forces of the dominion not recruit and trust the word of a lowly resistance fighter? And Stukov had CLEARLY gone completely insane without recourse and DuGalle's realization of his tragic mistakes was one of the most human moments in all of literary history!

Oh and they used drugs to control the Overmind. DUH!
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 19:12:21
July 28 2010 19:09 GMT
#117
On July 29 2010 03:18 Maginor wrote:
In a real dictatorship, that reporter would have been imprisoned and tortured. I sort of lost my fear of Mengsk when she was allowed to keep her job (even though she was cut off all the time). I thought Mengsk was a political mastermind, but he doesn't manage to track down Raynor even once when he bounces between all the Dominion worlds, and he has so little control over his military that his son is able to run away with half the fleet.


yea although in a real dictatorship the media would never screw up that badly so the point is moot. The only thing you could draw from the media was that broadcasted speech where he says "I will rules this sector or se it burnted to ashes around me", although i did not forsee the fact that Mensk would insist on his status of emperor being selfless dedication to the people.

WHAT KIND OF SMART EVIL MINDBENDING MASTERMIND WOULD EVER GO THAT ROUTE, ffs.

Mensk is a huge dissapointment and overall i think that was what sc2 wings of liberty lacked. Some real evil (outside of the whole "Hybrids will end the woldlzzz 1111")

outside of Findlays predicted "betrayal" i find it odd that raynor does not help his friend out of that explosive suit.
"Mudkip"
Andre
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Slovenia3523 Posts
July 28 2010 19:12 GMT
#118
As others have pointed out the cheesy dialogues fit Terrans perfectly...after all they're space rednecks.

The story is a bit lacking though, most of it just happens all of a sudden. I really loved Zeratul mini-campaign and i hope to see something like it in heart of the swarm =)
You must gather your party before venturing forth.
BACONATEOR
Profile Joined July 2010
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 19:20:36
July 28 2010 19:18 GMT
#119
(only played 7 hour trial and a few camp missions)

Sc1 did have horrible voice acting but when it was good oh god was it ever good,voice dialog was pretty much the same accept it was generally decent.

Sc2 on the other hand as average voice acting with puke worthy dialog and just so many "haha isnt that funny I C WHAT U DID" moments that you can't even take the plot seriously(remember the bomb cutscene in SC1?)




they also went a bit overboard on the whole "easter egg" thing (IPOD marine/free bird on jukebox? etc) that it completely ruins any immersion I may have had
Redmark
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada2129 Posts
July 28 2010 19:31 GMT
#120
I didn't like Brood War's story and I didn't like SC2's story either.
There have been in my opinion very few games with genuinely good storytelling. The ones which do are almost always focused more on the gameplay, or are good because of its light-hearted, cutesy nature (Phoenix Wright lol). People seem to like the 'epic' stories that one might see in Final Fantasy, though, and having read a few pages of FFVII's script I can only >_>. Heavy Rain, too, was pretty bad.
nodestar
Profile Joined May 2010
36 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 19:34:12
July 28 2010 19:33 GMT
#121
I can't believe people are just realizing this. Metzen isn't half as good as he gets credit for. He just tears plot-lines and story ideas from popular culture (or even his own games in the case of the who Sylvanas/Arthas/Kerrigan storylines). He's not that amazing of a universe builder.


I'm not just realizing this but it's finally become solidified in my mind.
Overall I was pretty disappointed. I replayed SC and SC:BW last week and they are much better in allot of ways. Obviously they can't match everything that new technology allowed blizzard to do. But I think they are leaps and bounds above WOL story wise.
I'll explain my thoughts below. Spoiler Alert.


+ Show Spoiler +

Short Version:
The only missions that were really interesting story wise were the Protoss ones. They progressed the story forward far more then the Terran missions. Which is a shame since it's not their campaign.
If they try and take the Zerg and make them like the Orcs in WC3 I'm gona cry.
The core story comprises about 4-5 missions. And it's also very weak and underdeveloped.
6 years and $100 million? For what? 3 real Cut scenes?


The first two or so missions I was actually shocked at how bad the dialogue and overall feel was. I had no idea that the Character Tychus Findlay(Is this guys voice Uncle Ruffus from the "Boon Docks"?) was going to be mostly comic relief. By the end of the 2nd mission I was already thinking I'd been duped. By the end of the 3rd mission I just decided to turn off my prejudices and give the game all the chances it needed. Just like you do for bad movies that can be fun if you just go along with it.

So I play about 15 more missions all the while thinking "is the story ever going to start?". Almost all of the first missions advance the main storyline very little. It is filled with all these subplots that are more or less entertaining but don't do much for the main plot. We collect pieces of the artifact which we'll need later. But really that could of been compacted into 1 mission. You could tell they were stretching what seemed like very little to begin with even more thin.

It makes me wonder what happened at Blizzard and what were the reasons behind splitting the story into 3 separate campaigns. I remember someone at blizzard. Maybe Dustin Browder saying there was just so much to tell or something. Simply not true. A mater of fact the whole Terran campaign seems out of balance. Like it's trying to tell a story line it was never intended to tell. And in the end couldn't. I'm referring to the Protoss missions. It was fun to play the Protoss but why were they needed? It would of been cool if we learned something interesting from them but really they were the biggest part of the actual story. The Main plot didn't even get kicked off until Zeratul came into the game. Without those missions nothing would of made sense. This just looks like very poor planning or very rushed. Neither or which makes sense because were looking at roughly 6 years of development and $100million?

Whats even more bazaar is that with all these pointless sub plots the main story was really underdeveloped. So many missed opportunities. For instance. In the final mission Kerrigan is returned to her human form. And from the looks of it she seems to be her old loving self. Yet we hardly got to see Kerrigan at all in WOL in her Zerg form. She showed up only to say a few words and have Jim out smart her or straight up beat her in every mission. The only real interactions came from the Protoss missions. Even though we knew Kerrigan from SC and SC:BW, in WOL she is basically a minor character. In the context of this story, does anyone even care what happens to her? Her character was just extremely underdeveloped.


By the time I reached the end it became apparent that the core of the story. What it was all about, comprised about 4-5 missions. Get artifact. Meet Valerian Mengsk. Learn everything you need to know from Zeratuls missions. Go get Kerrigan. The only remarkable subplot was trying to broadcast that tapped recording of Emperor Mengsk. It could probably of been considered a main plot as well. But was overshadowed by Kerrigans story.

There just wasn't much there. Which is unexplainable because as I said above. 6 years and $100 million. And nothing to show for it but 4-5 missions of actual progression of SC lore.

By far the largest disappointment was that I got a very heavy feeling of Warcraft leaking in. In Warcraft 3 the we all kinda found out that the Blood Thirsty Orcs who were the "bad guys" weren't so bad after all. Turns out they just made a few mistakes along the way. And that their evil masters (the Burning Legion) were actually the bad guys. So now everyone can be friends and fight the real bad guys.

I thought that was pretty clever of Metzen. It really added allot of depth to the Orcs and to the whole Warcraft universe. Suddenly everything was connected in a new way. But now it seems like they are trying to do the same thing with the Zerg. In WOL we find out that the Overmind was actually a sorta good guy??? And that he came up with the whole Kerrigan plan to throw an extra dice into the Xel'Naga's plans.

This is speculation at this point because we don't know where they're gona go with the next chapter. Which will be the Zerg Campaign. But don't be surprised if come the next game we find out the Zerg were once a shamanistic race of Larva things who built a proud culture on Zerg Land.

I don't know were the story is headed but it was just scary hearing Zeratul talk to Tassadar about the Overmind being good and all. I really hope Metzen isn't a one trick pony and that they have something good planned for the direction of the story.

Overall. There was allot of Fluff. And what was there wasn't all that great. I did enjoyed it though. And I think most people will. You kind of have too. After all. You just shelled out $60 and if you go tell your friends or write a post on a forum about how it was acceptable just because it's what we got but wasn't really that great. Well. Then people might not like you.

FecalFrown
Profile Joined June 2010
215 Posts
July 28 2010 20:49 GMT
#122
Here are my thoughts, Spoilers inside.

+ Show Spoiler +
I went in not knowing how long the campaign was, so I assumed it would be about 50 since the first 12 or so did absolutely nothing for the story line. It ended up being 26, and I can say that none of them besides the final mission and the Zeratul missions were memorable. Perhaps the biggest letdown of all was the ending cinematic. The fact the this "Queen of Blades", the biggest 'known' threat to both the Protoss and the Terran is defeated after 20ish forgettable missions? Not only defeated, but beaten by a ragtag group of rebels and half of the dominion fleet and RESTORED TO HER OLD SELF, Awwwwww how sweet. Its laughable. At the end of Brood War the admiral is so torn up about killing his best friend that he puts a bullet in his head. The softness of this ending is so far removed from Starcraft its not even recognizable.
Sandrosuperstar
Profile Joined November 2009
Sweden525 Posts
July 28 2010 21:00 GMT
#123
Brutal is riddicoulusly (i probably spelled that wrong) easy But beating some of the achivements on brutal is alot more challening, wich is fun^^
I'm homo for Lomo, gay for GGplay, but at the end of the day I put my dong in Lee Jaedong
NeonFlare
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Finland1307 Posts
July 28 2010 21:03 GMT
#124
Missions were pretty well done for the most part, but the story department was a mess.

They start up with some spacecowboy stuff and suddenly the amount of cutscenes dimnish and it turns into cheesy, cheesy stuff. I felt like Raynor's character flipped too much towards the end and it felt like they forgot a lot from the earlier parts of plot. Also for some reason it felt like somewhere in later parts the plot almost skipped fowards to bring it to closure.

The storytelling is completely different compared to the first starcraft, which isn't too bad of a thing, but when fed with enough cliches...

Overall it was decent, but I disliked the way they worked towards ending and the ending itself.

At least I laughed a bit when the campaign suprised me with the terrible terrible damage -line.
mimsy
Profile Joined July 2010
4 Posts
July 28 2010 21:10 GMT
#125
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one.

Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs.
Takkara
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2503 Posts
July 28 2010 21:18 GMT
#126
On July 29 2010 06:10 mimsy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one.

Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs.


Again I ask, how exactly was Half-Life a great written story?
Gee gee gee gee baby baby baby
Pking
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden142 Posts
July 28 2010 21:47 GMT
#127
Overall better single player gameplay than SC1, however, what made SC1 great IMO was the interesting back-story and the awesome cut-scenes. In SC1 the whole story of the three races was completely new and obviously more interesting. It would have been great if they in SC2 digged deeper into the stories of the three races, maybe getting more into their history, etc. instead of + Show Spoiler +
inventing a new super-race the Xel Naga. Not necessary, the three races are interesting enough.


I also feel the human campaign was like a series of side-missions, I would have liked a clearer direction... also + Show Spoiler +
emperor Mengsk was not a good antagonist, he basicly does nothing througout the campaign and gets his ass kicked.
TheTester
Profile Joined March 2010
United States172 Posts
July 28 2010 21:49 GMT
#128
On July 29 2010 03:26 BlueChipKiwi wrote:
I personally found it hilarious that the dialogue is simple enough for the younger players, but the campaign opens in a bar with drinking and smoking. Interesting choices...


How dare children see a virtual character drink! :D

I'm pretty pleased with it. I don't know what you guys expected, but some of the cheesy lines are kind of in place. Maybe I'm the kind of person that likes to use big words as a method of entertaining people, but things like "lets kick this revolution into overdrive" make me chuckle. And "some things are just worth fighting for" makes sense to me when the story is about some tiny rebel faction trying to take down the government.

And to the people saying that half the missions have no relevance to the actual storyline - I actually like this instead of disliking it. I feel it's a form of "form matches content" presentation where you dont jump straight from drinking rebel to whatever, but actually build up for it.

... and no, I'm 22 >.>

TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 21:56:09
July 28 2010 21:50 GMT
#129
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.

Note that every one of those games was released before 2000, and that none of them share a genre with Starcraft. Hell, three of them are RPGs that are *known* for their atmosphere. It's sort of unfair to judge the writing in an RTS based on the best-in-genre RPGs--where the experience is driven in large part by the writing.

I think the campaign is good for what it is--the single-player component of a predominantly multiplayer game. Seeing as I usually don't have the drive to slog through campaigns all the way, the fact that I've finished it already speaks to how good I feel it is, even though it didn't wow me in the slightest.
Moderator
TheTester
Profile Joined March 2010
United States172 Posts
July 28 2010 22:00 GMT
#130
I'd also like to note that BG, Fallout, Planescape are roleplaying games. It's not surprising that roleplaying games have a lot more substance to it than a game whose primary element is still an RTS. Of course you feel a lot more immersion with the character when he is basically with you the entire playtime, not to mention that you can make the game a lot longer with a lot more plot because you don't have to adhere to RTS elements.

HL was already questioned, but it's still a game where you see a world from the characters eyes, not by micromanaging marines.
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 22:20:48
July 28 2010 22:19 GMT
#131
On July 29 2010 07:00 TheTester wrote:
I'd also like to note that BG, Fallout, Planescape are roleplaying games. It's not surprising that roleplaying games have a lot more substance to it than a game whose primary element is still an RTS. Of course you feel a lot more immersion with the character when he is basically with you the entire playtime, not to mention that you can make the game a lot longer with a lot more plot because you don't have to adhere to RTS elements.

HL was already questioned, but it's still a game where you see a world from the characters eyes, not by micromanaging marines.


Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*


There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road.
"Mudkip"
Masheyoon
Profile Joined October 2009
United States781 Posts
July 28 2010 22:32 GMT
#132
On July 29 2010 01:03 Koltz wrote:
It does feel watered down...

+ Show Spoiler +
Kerrigan is supposed to save the fucking terran and protoss?
Seems like a huge deus ex machina to me.
I've wanted revenge ever since she killed Duke and Fenix. Now we have to side with her... again?
She already played zeratul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjWRSv8AD9w&fs=1#t=03m22s

Jim Raynor: "It may not be tomorrow darling, it may not even happen with an army behind my back, but rest assured, I'm going to be man that's going to kill you one day. I'll be seeing you."

Indeed. I'm very disappointed myself.

+ Show Spoiler +
And don't forget about Matriarch Raszagal. Seriously, after all that time spent on making Kerrigan so vile and loathsome Blizzard's just going to pull the, "No, no, that was her dark side! She can be purged of such things and become good" gimmick card.


Augh.
ToxNub
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada805 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-28 22:46:26
July 28 2010 22:43 GMT
#133
Some of you have some really odd expectations. All blizzard games are a little cheesy, a little cliche, a little goofy. They're all PG-13. Why would you expect different? It's almost as if you hoped starcraft would be like an old friend, and you'd meet up again for some laughs when you were both grown up. There are lots of adult-specific games out there if you want.

The dialogue is interesting, the amount of lore stuffed into every scene is great, the hyperion system is pretty sweet, and the missions are genuinely cool. The only complaint i have is that there's this floaty feeling of timelessness in the sense that it doesn't really matter what you do. Nothing is super pressing. "What's that? People stranded on an infested planet? Ima go play arcade games for a bit... maybe chat with the upgrades dude... Hmm, maybe I'll go do this mining op? Guess I should save those people one of these days... nah more arcade"

Ive been playing through on brutal, about 1/3 done. We'll see how the rest goes
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
July 28 2010 22:45 GMT
#134
On July 29 2010 06:18 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 06:10 mimsy wrote:
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one.

Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs.


Again I ask, how exactly was Half-Life a great written story?


It wasn't, but that's the beauty of it - it was incredibly immersive without having any story whatsoever. They left just enough mystery, bizarre shit and openings for interpretation, along with all the characters referring to you as Gordon Freeman that you felt like Gordon Freeman.

They pulled it off even better in HL2 with the complete insanity of the situation and answering zero questions about the Combine except what your brain interprets from the occasional sights you see. Organic machines? Cities with moving walls? Faceless soldiers? Gigantic towers? The fuck is going on here?

Planescape Torment had a similar sense of intrigue and mystery even though you played the main character by proxy by pointing him in different directions. You really controlled what the Nameless One was doing, though I really think I'm doing PST a disservice by comparing it to any of these other games. The utter genius and artistic construction of that game is, and will probably forever be, unparalleled.

In SC2, it seems a lot of that mystery and intrigue that makes some video game stories so immersive is missing. You just point Raynor in a direction and off he goes. The story builds incredibly slowly (11 missions in, I don't feel like I've done a damn thing) and its all kind of plotted out for you. It just doesn't seem to be taking itself very seriously, especially when + Show Spoiler +
you see a damn Night Elf dancing at the back of the bar
. Combine that with friend logins chiming in and the occasional message interrupting me, you really lose that sense of immersion in the single-player campaign.
TheTester
Profile Joined March 2010
United States172 Posts
July 28 2010 23:09 GMT
#135
I'm actually enjoying the SC2 campaign way more than I enjoyed the WC3 one, I never really got convinced by Arthas... but to each their own.
Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
July 28 2010 23:49 GMT
#136
Calling it now, Kerrigan is still going to be corrupt and bitter and everything. I must believe >:O

She's going to burn it all to the ground! Heart of the Swarm better do work :/
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Xanrae
Profile Joined March 2008
Belgium53 Posts
July 29 2010 00:04 GMT
#137
I have no idea what the HotS storyline is going to be about since they just eliminated the only speaking zerg character but left some terran threads hanging.

However, we all know how the LotV campaign will end: the protoss and terran will defeat the evil Xel'Naga who want to destroy the universe and some protoss will give a speech saying after many sacrifices they will no longer have to look up to their old gods and will now be able to independently forge their own destiny.

*GROAN*

Note: LotV will come at about the same time as Diablo III, whose ending will feature some NPC proclaiming that humanity will no longer be slaves to either hell or heaven and will now be able to independently forge their own destiny. Blizzard has 3 books (the Sin War trilogy) that suddenly introduce a reason for heaven to destroy Sanctuary, pretty much just so they can do that particular ending.

*GROAN AGAIN*
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 00:18:48
July 29 2010 00:10 GMT
#138
On July 29 2010 06:18 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 06:10 mimsy wrote:
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one.

Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs.


Again I ask, how exactly was Half-Life a great written story?


Yeah the original half life didn't really have much of a story :/

On July 29 2010 03:18 Dragonsven wrote:
I think you guys have rose-colored glasses on when you look back at the SC campaign. Remember we were 10+ years younger back then. Obviously the single player is geared towards teenagers so a lot of us are going to find it childish. We're getting old, GG.



No not really. This entire campaign was just badly written. I thought we were going to get the equivalent of 3 campaigns for a single race. Turns out we got 1 campaign worth of content that just lasts a really long time

The dialogue was passable I guess, objectively.
Too Busy to Troll!
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
July 29 2010 00:22 GMT
#139
On July 29 2010 07:19 Madkipz wrote:
Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*


There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road.

The story for Dawn of War singleplayer (assuming that's the Warhammer you're referring to) is just as trite as SC2's if not more so. Warcraft 3's storyline is just as derivative of Starcraft as Starcraft 2 is of Warcraft 3, and the C&C series is deliberately over-the-top. I'd hardly call any of them engaging and immersive.
Moderator
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 00:27:16
July 29 2010 00:26 GMT
#140
On July 29 2010 09:22 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 07:19 Madkipz wrote:
Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*


There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road.

The story for Dawn of War singleplayer (assuming that's the Warhammer you're referring to) is just as trite as SC2's if not more so. Warcraft 3's storyline is just as derivative of Starcraft as Starcraft 2 is of Warcraft 3, and the C&C series is deliberately over-the-top. I'd hardly call any of them engaging and immersive.


Theirs a difference between original and memorable or immersive. Nobody is criticizing Starcraft 2 because it "derivative". WC3 had a far more immersive and well told single campaign then Starcraft 2 easily, without question.
Too Busy to Troll!
NotJack
Profile Joined December 2009
United States737 Posts
July 29 2010 00:30 GMT
#141
My gripe isn't that there are any flaws in the storytelling or immersible-ness; it's just that it is designed with the sequel too much in mind.

It simply doesn't have the fundamental story arc, and it's really painful.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
July 29 2010 03:39 GMT
#142
On July 29 2010 09:22 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 07:19 Madkipz wrote:
Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*


There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road.

The story for Dawn of War singleplayer (assuming that's the Warhammer you're referring to) is just as trite as SC2's if not more so. Warcraft 3's storyline is just as derivative of Starcraft as Starcraft 2 is of Warcraft 3, and the C&C series is deliberately over-the-top. I'd hardly call any of them engaging and immersive.


To be fair, the DoW2 story sucked, but Chaos Rising's story was pretty awesome.

That said, no one's gotten even close to doing the 40k universe true justice in a video game. Probably the best fantasy universe I've ever read about/played in.

But yes, I'm not even all the way through and I'm getting very disappointed. The engine itself is fantastic - the way you can get through missions, get info, choose your own path through various missions, etc... It's all great, but the story itself feels incredibly underdeveloped.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
chraej.
Profile Joined February 2010
51 Posts
July 29 2010 03:54 GMT
#143
the story feels very chopped.

i think blizz is trying to stretch some ideas over all SC2 titles - which makes it feel like lame watery story with lack luster dialog and confusing direction. It's not the worst thing i've ever witnessed but it never really goes anywhere.

also there are parts of the story that just kind of happen without much explanation

But...the game play is still pretty fun so i suppose it evens out
from the ashes
Nuxar
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada212 Posts
July 29 2010 04:19 GMT
#144
UUhhhhhmmm....

Ok...

IMO, everything was perfect or nearly perfect. Obviously, a slightly less "childish" dialog would be better but, compared to Sc1, I found that every aspect of the new story was epic. Missions were always fun but what was funner is when your tired of always having a CC to control then PLOP, a super-awesome mission which is very unique | (Tosh, Zeratul, ...). Music was beautiful during the missions and cinematics. The story itself so farm and how its told is simply....mind-blowing, rly...

All in all, I love the campaign, dont know why you guys are complaining...then again, you dont have my opinion :p
Cri du Chat
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany606 Posts
July 29 2010 04:37 GMT
#145
I played now through the game once and the storytelling surprised me too.
The story is not really bad i would say, it is more llike you where watching a B-Movie.
The characters act pretty strange sometimes.
+ Show Spoiler +
For example after the fight scene. Raynor nearly got killed there, and only wants his Juke Box fixed? I know he is supposed to look extra cool there, but i thought that the scene is just silly.

For a computer game the whole presentation is of course pretty good, but the Warcraft 3 Story just was more Epic in my opinion and it had more surprising turns.
I just expected a little bit more, but can't really complain that much.
renshank
Profile Joined April 2010
United States41 Posts
July 29 2010 06:05 GMT
#146
On July 29 2010 01:05 Rhinoceros wrote:
My favorite part is 'This is a commander I can get behind'. I guess Blizzard thought Raynor was such a weak character in SC2 that they vocally needed to tell us that he's a 'commander we can get behind'.

Runner up line:

"Lets kick this revolution into overdrive!'

I can't believe Chris Metzen is paid for this.


Neither can I. Seriously. I don't even know what else to say. The entire storyline was terrible, and I'm ashamed to have told people to buy this game (because they'll all play single player and think I'm an idiot).
Memento Mori
ibogdandx
Profile Joined April 2010
180 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 06:20:00
July 29 2010 06:07 GMT
#147
On July 29 2010 00:51 krypti_c wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 00:49 HandBanana wrote:
Maybe a bit too easy, but still a fun experience.


1)Play on brutal
2)Cry
3)?????
4)Profit

Indeed , on brutal , the dialogues will be different ?
/profit ?




Anyways on a serios note , im"Kinda"fine with the storyy , because it continues with the Protoss campaign and zerg one so...im realy curios what zerg will do tbh
Altho , it seemed a bit easy yes (Dont say BRUTAL?!?! WTF ).
If i would to say smthn i would say 10/10 storyline and 5/10 play

+ Show Spoiler +
PS: Loved that in the end Queen of Blades un-Zerged since Raynor and her were imo best chars ever if i dont count Zeratul


Probably if this was a movie would be great like LOTR and was in 4-5parts but was a bit QQ

And also some1 mentioned the storyteling in SC and BW , i must say that the SC/BW story is far more awesome and not so dull even tho SC/BW didnt have so many cutscenes and shit
The_Voidless
Profile Joined March 2010
United States184 Posts
July 29 2010 06:17 GMT
#148
Some of the problems i think come with the gathering of money and basic cliche subplots, but hey firebats and everyone having a southern accent make up for that.
If you're not first you're last.
antelope591
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada820 Posts
July 29 2010 06:44 GMT
#149
On July 29 2010 09:26 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 09:22 TheYango wrote:
On July 29 2010 07:19 Madkipz wrote:
Yea because making an engaging and immersive storyline is totally impossible *cough Warhammer, wc3 , Red alert, TIBERIAN SUN LOLOOLOL cough*


There was nothing notable or memorable in this storyline, perhaps besides the Zerg infestation subplot. I liked that one, but i wont recall that a week down the road.

The story for Dawn of War singleplayer (assuming that's the Warhammer you're referring to) is just as trite as SC2's if not more so. Warcraft 3's storyline is just as derivative of Starcraft as Starcraft 2 is of Warcraft 3, and the C&C series is deliberately over-the-top. I'd hardly call any of them engaging and immersive.


Theirs a difference between original and memorable or immersive. Nobody is criticizing Starcraft 2 because it "derivative". WC3 had a far more immersive and well told single campaign then Starcraft 2 easily, without question.


WC3 story was awesome but TFT...not so much imo. I think SC2 story wasn't THAT bad, not on SC/BW level but still good for an RTS. A big weakness which I haven't seen many people talk about is the fact that it's told only from the terran perspective. Personally, I always enjoyed the Protoss campaigns more than the others in the original/expansion and the Zeratul portion of the second one was my favorite part of SC2.
Zombo Joe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada850 Posts
July 29 2010 06:46 GMT
#150
Way too many unrelated side missions ruined it a bit for me. Also where did the UED go?
I am Terranfying.
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
July 29 2010 07:03 GMT
#151
On July 29 2010 06:18 Takkara wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 06:10 mimsy wrote:
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.


Spot on here. Assuming you are excluding Half-Life 2 from that list, which brings up a very important point and pattern that I see. Half-Life 2's story was just as tuned down in comparison to the original as this one.

Also for anyone that says the campaign is easy, do Brutal you noobs.


Again I ask, how exactly was Half-Life a great written story?



Half-Life (+sequels) is full of nothing but intelligent dialog and extremely well-directed gameplay. I mean, compare the dialog from HL and HL2 to SC2. In HL2, you have the broadcasts by Breen, exposition from main characters and idle banter. There are some minor in-universe jokes, but nothing overt. Most importantly, none of the dialog feels forced, the voice actors did a tremendous job and you get the feeling that thought and care went into how the world was presented.

Now compare it to SC2. SC2 feels like it was written by 5th graders for 4th graders. If you played a drinking game where you took a shot every time you heard a one-liner, you'd be dead before the 3rd mission. The entire game feels like a giant inside joke by Blizzard. "The Lost Viking", the dancing night elf, "terrible terrible damage", the cliched one-liners. It all just feels so ... medicore. The worst part is that it feels like none of the voice actors put any effort into their lines. The voice actors went in, put in their 3 hours of work and collected a paycheck. Compare the voice acting from any briefing in SC2 to even SC1. The voice actors in SC1 genuinely gave 100% of their effort into the product.

I don't really see how Blizzard could be satisfied with this product. The story is the most cliched mess I've ever seen. Blizzard has done the same story 3 times now, SC/BW, WC3 and now WoL. Every time they do this exact story, it gets worse. Everyone said that WC3 was SC on Azeroth. Now we are saying it's WC3 in space.
ooni
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Australia1498 Posts
July 29 2010 07:14 GMT
#152
Here's the truth, story is not shakespeare but single player is executed very well (on brutal, figuring out how to win is very rewarding). Once again story is simple but I don't play games for the story, I watch movies/TV and read books (exception of game novel, e.g. phoenix wright).
Hi!
Trepanation
Profile Joined May 2010
United States111 Posts
July 29 2010 07:15 GMT
#153
Huh....Did all the butt hurt ignorant kids that were down voting sc2 on amazon come to shit on the campaign? There were some cheap one liners here and there but i don't see how that ruins the whole story.

Ciryandor
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3735 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 08:05:45
July 29 2010 08:04 GMT
#154
The problem with the campaign IMO is continuity. Everyone who's been ragging on the characters knows at least a little bit on their role in the SC Universe, whether based on the game, the canon books, or other official derivative sources. The fact that many of these characters were satirized when they could have been deepened AND/OR nuanced makes many even more uneasy about how the story goes.

For example, Raynor ends up becoming much less of a bitter, vengeful bastard against Kerrigan considering what she's done during BW as the Queen of Blades. We never got to see in this story how his attitude softened towards her that for him, her redemption became his over-riding priority and drive. Also, Arcturus Mengsk's character was essentially displaced; when he could have still been a manipulative son of a bitch like he was (e.g. Kerrigan on New Gettysburg), especially with how he pushed Tychus Findlay to going for the kill, it wasn't as brazen and aggravating as it should have been. Also, Valerian's character should have been even more devious, considering his position AND his depiction in the novels.

Another failure in terms of the campaign was in showing how desperate Raynor and Co. were in resources. It wasn't as solid as it could have been, when the Dominion could have easily brushed them away like a fly had it been warranted. Missions that would have had them getting steamrolled by other groups had they not done it quickly would have created a much more urgent sense of desperation for players. Most of all, I regret the ineptitude of the Zerg broods in this, when they let the Dominion camp their home planet. Unless Heart of the Swarm shows why repelling the Terran amidst the chaos was impossible; or shows a new Overmind vs Kerrigan war, the sudden weakness of the Zerg (maybe over-stretch in hitting so many Dominion worlds at once?) is also simply inexplicable. This is unless it turns out that half the Dominion fleet these days >>> three fleet squadrons in BW.

Edit: I actually realized I could add A LOT MORE as a writer, in terms of what weaknesses and inconsistencies plagued the campaign, but it would be sheer over-kill.
에일리 and 아이유 <3 - O Captain 박재혁 ・゚✧*:・*゚+..。✧・゚:*・..。 ✧・゚ :・゚* ゜・*:・ ✧・゚:・゚:.。 ✧・゚ SPARKULING ・゜・:・゚✧*:・゚✧。*゚+..。 ✧・゚: ✧・゚:*・゜・:・゚✧*::
esaul17
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada547 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 08:49:48
July 29 2010 08:49 GMT
#155
I am not too far in, but I do feel like a few key points in SC/SC:BW's campaign had a real "wow, this is awesome" feel to it. And I rewatched all of it on youtube before SC2 came out to prepare myself. I mean, sure a lot of it was cheesy, but some parts, especially with the protoss (my favourite race) I thought were pretty damn cool.

So far, the only part of this that I thought was really awesome was the cinematic flashback of Kerrigan. That moment hurt in both SC2 and SC. That, and I just recently + Show Spoiler +
got to the point where we see there is a chance to bring Kerrigan back
, which to me was the first time I actually cared about anything in the story. I also did watch everything from SC1/BW in the span of a few days, which could make me think it was a faster paced narrative then actually playing through the game.

I'm also playing through on normal, which is pretty easy, but I wasn't looking to struggle too much.

Also, still not sure if anything can surpass the WC3 scene where Arthas returns home.
"What are you doing, my son?"
"Succeeding you, father!"
rockon1215
Profile Joined May 2009
United States612 Posts
July 29 2010 09:08 GMT
#156
As someone who never played the BW campaign, I liked the storyline. The hopeless romantic in me enjoyed the picture of Kerrigan that Raynor always carried with him + Show Spoiler +
plus she's hot
, and to see her humanized in the end was a nice happy ending that I enjoyed.

I agree that Mensk never seemed too threatening, but if Tychus had succeed, we would all see Mensk as brilliant wouldn't we?

Sometimes, it's good to see the good guys win.

P.S. loved the news broadcasts
Flash v Jaedong The finals that is ALWAYS meant to be
Marl
Profile Joined January 2010
United States694 Posts
July 29 2010 09:29 GMT
#157
I'm about half way through campaign and IMO the missions are more challenging and fun than SC1, but I have little motivation to complete them. The story isn't nearly as interesting as sc1 and none of the new characters are appealing. At this point I'm just doing missions for the sake of completing the game, not to unravel the story.
SevenSpirits
Profile Joined September 2009
United States12 Posts
July 29 2010 09:53 GMT
#158
Both the SC1 and SC2 campaigns could be described as cliched but unpredictable. The difference is that SC1 focused more on plot while SC2 shifted focus to character development.

IMO this made it worse. The cliches were annoying, but the plot twists were OK. In SC2 there's more cliches and less twisty plot.

There's also the fact that blizzard plots have become more predictable with experience, but I think that's minor compared to the revealed godawfulness when blizzard decided it was a good idea to show off their characters.
Ronald_McD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada807 Posts
July 29 2010 10:10 GMT
#159
I don't know why everyone is shitting on the campaign mode.

I really love the new campaign mode. Maybe some parts are kind of cheesy and childish, but I played BW the first time when I was 13, so it really kind of brings me back to that kind of state.

I like going back to the ship and just chillin around with the other characters. I always get a kick out of talking to Tychus even if it's the same old thick southerner expressions and accent crap.
FUCKING GAY LAGS
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
July 29 2010 10:18 GMT
#160
I just finished the campaign, and yeah the whole story felt immature.

+ Show Spoiler +
also, what was the motivation for mengsk to order tychus to kill kerrigan after her transformation? I don't really see how that could help mengsk at all. dumb.
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Cirn9
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1117 Posts
July 29 2010 10:34 GMT
#161
Looks like you ran over some po' fella's dog sarge
Unprotected sex is like fast expanding in close positions. Its risky, but feels great when it works out
Xapti
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2473 Posts
July 29 2010 10:38 GMT
#162
On July 29 2010 00:55 Drunken.Jedi wrote:
The only real complaint I have to far is about that news show, where every time this reporter woman starts saying something critical of the Dominion, she gets cut off by the anchor. Doing that once would have been fine, but it's pretty much the same after every mission.

Apart from that, I think the story telling is definitely better than in sc1. You probably just have fond childhood memories of playing the sc1 campaign, which is why you don't see the flaws in sc1's storytelling.
Yeah, I am in total agreement with both those things.

A few of the cinematics were better in SC1 (although I haven't completed SC2), but SC2 also has more cutscenes.

There's no long-range communications with multiple different factions all appearing on one briefing screen (SC1 briefings) that go on anymore in SC2. I don't know if it's that was unrealistic or not, but also I can't decide if it made things better or worse than SC2.
"Then he told me to tell you that he wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire" — "Well, you tell him that I said that I wouldn't piss on him if he was on Jeopardy!"
WolfStar
Profile Joined February 2008
United Kingdom155 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 11:07:58
July 29 2010 11:07 GMT
#163
On July 29 2010 01:15 OreoBoi wrote:
There also seems to be no plot development inside of a mission like there was in SC1. You just do a mission, and then you get plot.


Thank you!

I knew something didn't feel quite right. I really miss the in game plot sequences!

Still for my part I thought it was a great game regardless.
The early bird catches the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.
TRAP[yoo]
Profile Joined December 2009
Hungary6026 Posts
July 29 2010 11:10 GMT
#164
i enjoyed the campaign. the story was O.K. and i really wanted to know how its gonna end. the dialogues are sometimes...not THAT good but i would not go so far to call it plain bad..
i playerd sc1 campaign as a child and i have to agree to drunkend.jedi that you are controlled by memories^^. just like diablo...the story is not really good but i just love it because it was the game i played the most

we dont know what will happen in the zerg chapter so we dont know whether karrigan really is free or she still has the power to control the zerg race.
FTD
Ploppytheman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States248 Posts
July 29 2010 11:11 GMT
#165
The missions and units and everything except how the story was presented was good. The news reporter thing was stupid and I only clicked it b/c I click everything anyway. The game felt a little too much like being an errand boy rather than progressing the story sometimes. Most of the game really felt like WoW quests rather than an awesome story. I played most of it on Brutal, a lot on hard, and on the last mission I got 66% on brutal and died so I was like Ill just play on casual so I can get to the last mission. Oh wait that was the last one. Yeh so really good except too many quests that didn't really matter. ANd talking to the people on the ship felt like a chore rather than fun 90% of the time.
youtube.com/ploppytheman for GAIMEZ!!!
Raevin
Profile Joined July 2010
246 Posts
July 29 2010 11:32 GMT
#166
Sadly its what everyone feared, this is Warcraft 3 storyline.

Terran Campaign: Defeat Kerrigan and turn her "good"
Protos Campaign: Rebuild and fight a hopeless fight against the Hybrids
Zerg Campaign: Kerrigan takes control of the Zerg again to help the Protoss and Terran defeat the greater evil. Queue Warcraft 3 ending of defeating the big baddie.
Runsta
Profile Joined March 2008
United States161 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 11:46:43
July 29 2010 11:45 GMT
#167
On July 29 2010 20:32 Raevin wrote:
Sadly its what everyone feared, this is Warcraft 3 storyline.

Terran Campaign: Defeat Kerrigan and turn her "good"
Protos Campaign: Rebuild and fight a hopeless fight against the Hybrids
Zerg Campaign: Kerrigan takes control of the Zerg again to help the Protoss and Terran defeat the greater evil. Queue Warcraft 3 ending of defeating the big baddie.



except the next campaign is the zerg.

On topic: it was so cliche and over the top that i actually enjoyed it. Once you accept it as taking science fiction cliches to the max, it was awesome. Hilarious even.

FieryBalrog
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1381 Posts
July 29 2010 12:11 GMT
#168
On July 29 2010 02:55 Qwerty. wrote:
Man, I guess after playing single-player games like Half-Life, Baldur's Gate, Fallout, Planescape, I expect a certain...standard of writing? when I run into something like this...blegh. I suppose multiplayer is where Blizz excels, but you'd think with the cash they had they could've hired some real talent. But hey, Zerg can't speak! 'cept for kerrigan.

Its not like the story in Baldur's Gate was really all that amazing, the game is great for other reasons. In fact Irenicus has some pretty mediocre lines made great by David Warner's voice acting.
I will eat you alive
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
July 29 2010 12:52 GMT
#169
I thought the campaing was amazing, only short comming for me was the + Show Spoiler +
lack of cinematic cutscenes, and those there were were really short. but ofc it helps that you have the ingame one constant


also i may be the only one who was pleasantly suprised by the ending(DON'T click if you haven't completed the campaign): + Show Spoiler +
i was 100% sure there would be a lame plot twist with kerrigan still being Zerg, it was nice that she was saved, caus we all know she havent played her part of the grand battle, oh and we all saw Tychus betrayeal comming a mile away


but yes it had its short commings, but so did SC/BW, WC and Diablo, all in all i can't wait for the next champer \m/ all hail the Swarm!
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Seiniyta
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium1815 Posts
July 29 2010 13:21 GMT
#170
IGN got SC1's singleplayer summed up quite good.


"In the twelve years since the original came out, Blizzard has taken the time to completely rework how the single-player story is structured. You no longer passively watch as a room full of video screens is populated with angry aliens all yelling about domination, rebellion, and eradication while repeatedly stabbing each other in the back"

honestly, the singleplayer of starcraft 1 wasn't anything special, the only thing that's true is that you were right in the middle of the action, Big events happening ridicilously fast after each other which I always had found...disconnecting, works for a rts, but for a story line. Most of the story was told through the novels and the notes of the developers after the release of the game over the course of the years.
Pokemon Master
Solai
Profile Joined September 2009
204 Posts
July 29 2010 13:23 GMT
#171
I found it actually rather interesting, because it involves myself more. In SC: BW the storyline was essentially always about the bigger picture of things, it wasn't personal at all and I couldn't really connect with any of the characters there. The SC2 campaign involves me way more and I am actually going through the ship after every mission, hear what every single one of the characters has to say on the story development. Yeah, sometimes it's cheesy, sometimes it's simple funny and entertaining, sometimes its over the top - but all in all I am having a blast.

For an RTS game the storytelling is simply superb, no other developer managed to tell the story in such an interesting way (RTS).

Generally the dialogue and storytelling is always on B-movie level in games. I didn't play a single game yet (And yes, I played all of the mentioned RPGs and even Planescape Torment was packed with lame stereotypes and predictability), that actually wasn't full of overly used stereotypes and references. And just because a game has a lot of dialogue and text in general, it doesn't mean that it is or superb and extraordinary writing (I am looking at you Bioware!!!)

In any case, I would love to see someone of Chuck Palahniuks caliber do the writing for a game. Would be interesting to see what he would come up with.
yarders
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom194 Posts
July 29 2010 13:54 GMT
#172
I've been a bit dissapointed with the storytelling. Someone hit it on the head in an earlier post. The biggest failing is the lack of plot development in the missions themselves, that was one of the things which made Starcraft so great. Remember the mission when you had to assassinate Stukov and then the whole mission suddenly flipped. That was my favourite mission in an RTS ever. Where was that?

The other massive problem I had was the seemingly endless stream of pointless missions which had very little to do with the wider plot. I got really fed up picking up all these artifacts. It felt very strung out. What made it worse was when they had a chance to create a real mission which engaged you with the plot, it wasn't there! Where was the mission where I storm Valerian's battlecruiser? That could have been an awesome mission. And I never got the chance to fight Mensk on the field of battle.

There were lots of things which were great as well but overall I was left feeling a little frustrated.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
July 29 2010 14:06 GMT
#173
I just finished it last night...final thoughts after a night's sleep and mulling it over:

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh my god that whole ordeal felt terrible. Raynor KNOWS Tychus is in a shitty situation with the suit and that "someone has a gun to his head" and he does absolutely fucking nothing about it?! Oh hey of course that Xel'Naga artifact cured Kerrigan. Makes complete godamned sense. Of course the Xel'Naga would construct and leave behind artifacts that cleanse infestation of one of their child-races from a completely unknown and unimportant species. Tosh, you're a bad man for not telling me about your sinister plans, but we're still cool, right?

I think what they've done with Warcraft has spilled over into Starcraft - they just don't take it seriously anymore. They throw in easter-eggs (Night Elf at the bar, and all other kinds of silly immersion-breaking things I can't remember right now) cheesey lines and basically boil the whole game down to general fan-service instead of actual story-telling. Its like they were torn between writing a good story, and the more recent company culture of throwing in silly shit left, right and centre to make fans giggle.

The 'story' progressed so horribly slow, too. Same feeling I got from the first 11 missions I got from the next 11 - I'm just going through the motions picking up units, money and tech and playing mini-games until the final push against Kerrigan where there's a few more minigames and finally a hold-the-line shitstorm at the end.

Being able to pick which missions you did in what order left some seriously awkward situations in there, too. Oh we just beat the crap out of Mengsk and stole the Odin? Damn this rebellion is going well. Oh, Jimmy bumps into Kerrigan while saving some scientists in the next mission? THIS REBELLION IS GOING NOWHERE FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU-. The way I played it, and I'm sure there are many who did the same, by gradually going through each mission path, instead of picking one and going all the way (except for the Protoss one) made it feel like every character had bipolar disorder.

I like how they teach that all-important sense of urgency to players, though, through every mission having some kind of time limiter on it in some way (race to 8000 minerals, keep moving your base from the fire, keep your army mobile as you protect civilian transports), but I don't think that's going to transfer over to the online game. My brother (hardcore gamer, but not a big RTS player) mentioned he was annoyed that EVERY mission was like that and that there was literally no missions to sit back, build a huge motherfucking army with tons of surplus resources and smash down a well fortified base, maps from most RTS games of yore. Feels like they went the mini-game route to show off the versatility of the engine instead of the old tried-and-true method of RTS campaigns. But, one huge, ENORMOUS skill that never gets taught (except maybe through the challenge things, I haven't checked) is SCOUTING. Even on hard-mode they literally hand you vision of important areas of the map on a silver platter. A friend at work (casual) mentioned how he started playing online and that he was terrified that everyone knew the maps already because of workers getting into his base and spotting his exact location 'really quickly'. I think they dropped the ball on that one.

The majority of the missions were fun, not gonna deny that. The final Protoss mission was awesome and I felt really proud getting that last achievement as I was getting hammered from all angles (poor Zeratul died immediately when Overseers showed up. Oops!), but I feel like the campaign was making me suck when it comes to doing my placements tonight (if for the simple fact I've been playing my least favourite race this whole time), so I'm going to have to hammer against some Insane AI achievements to get a feel for it again.
Sooner
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden2 Posts
July 29 2010 16:13 GMT
#174
I registered just to say this.

Man are a lot of you people spoiled. I just get really irritated on how bloody demanding and whiny anyone can be with Blizzard games. It's like reading the WoW forums, there seems to be no end to rubbish to complain about.

A lot of people seem to have serious problems having fun, relaxing and seeing something great when it's shoved in their face.
Stop living on nostalgia, it's messing with your head something fierce.

I could just rant forever about this.

I really liked the campaign, they tried to do things differently because GASP(!) it's a new game and for me it really worked.
0mar
Profile Joined February 2010
United States567 Posts
July 29 2010 16:13 GMT
#175
On July 29 2010 23:06 Bibdy wrote:
I just finished it last night...final thoughts after a night's sleep and mulling it over:

+ Show Spoiler +
Oh my god that whole ordeal felt terrible. Raynor KNOWS Tychus is in a shitty situation with the suit and that "someone has a gun to his head" and he does absolutely fucking nothing about it?! Oh hey of course that Xel'Naga artifact cured Kerrigan. Makes complete godamned sense. Of course the Xel'Naga would construct and leave behind artifacts that cleanse infestation of one of their child-races from a completely unknown and unimportant species. Tosh, you're a bad man for not telling me about your sinister plans, but we're still cool, right?

I think what they've done with Warcraft has spilled over into Starcraft - they just don't take it seriously anymore. They throw in easter-eggs (Night Elf at the bar, and all other kinds of silly immersion-breaking things I can't remember right now) cheesey lines and basically boil the whole game down to general fan-service instead of actual story-telling. Its like they were torn between writing a good story, and the more recent company culture of throwing in silly shit left, right and centre to make fans giggle.

The 'story' progressed so horribly slow, too. Same feeling I got from the first 11 missions I got from the next 11 - I'm just going through the motions picking up units, money and tech and playing mini-games until the final push against Kerrigan where there's a few more minigames and finally a hold-the-line shitstorm at the end.

Being able to pick which missions you did in what order left some seriously awkward situations in there, too. Oh we just beat the crap out of Mengsk and stole the Odin? Damn this rebellion is going well. Oh, Jimmy bumps into Kerrigan while saving some scientists in the next mission? THIS REBELLION IS GOING NOWHERE FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU-. The way I played it, and I'm sure there are many who did the same, by gradually going through each mission path, instead of picking one and going all the way (except for the Protoss one) made it feel like every character had bipolar disorder.

I like how they teach that all-important sense of urgency to players, though, through every mission having some kind of time limiter on it in some way (race to 8000 minerals, keep moving your base from the fire, keep your army mobile as you protect civilian transports), but I don't think that's going to transfer over to the online game. My brother (hardcore gamer, but not a big RTS player) mentioned he was annoyed that EVERY mission was like that and that there was literally no missions to sit back, build a huge motherfucking army with tons of surplus resources and smash down a well fortified base, maps from most RTS games of yore. Feels like they went the mini-game route to show off the versatility of the engine instead of the old tried-and-true method of RTS campaigns. But, one huge, ENORMOUS skill that never gets taught (except maybe through the challenge things, I haven't checked) is SCOUTING. Even on hard-mode they literally hand you vision of important areas of the map on a silver platter. A friend at work (casual) mentioned how he started playing online and that he was terrified that everyone knew the maps already because of workers getting into his base and spotting his exact location 'really quickly'. I think they dropped the ball on that one.

The majority of the missions were fun, not gonna deny that. The final Protoss mission was awesome and I felt really proud getting that last achievement as I was getting hammered from all angles (poor Zeratul died immediately when Overseers showed up. Oops!), but I feel like the campaign was making me suck when it comes to doing my placements tonight (if for the simple fact I've been playing my least favourite race this whole time), so I'm going to have to hammer against some Insane AI achievements to get a feel for it again.


Agree, the game feels like a giant inside joke by Blizzard. It's no longer a space opera but something where each Blizzard writer/artist can put in their own favorite pop culture/Blizzard reference. One or two is okay, but every single mission/room has at least 1 inside joke.
koOma
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway462 Posts
July 29 2010 16:18 GMT
#176
I dig it, especially doing the various challenges is fun
He wears a mask so when he dogs his face / Each and every race could absorb the bass /// ST_Life
TzTz
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany511 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 16:24:22
July 29 2010 16:21 GMT
#177
I think it's fine. The end is a bit strange to me. However I just recently played through Starcraft and Brood War campaigns. SC2 is so so much better, you probably just have fond memories of the good old times if you want to argue that. Also you'd play 15-20 hours on hard and probably quite a bit more on brutal. Starcraft campaign took me something like 6 hours and I wasn't rushing it. You have great replayability because of choice missions, difficulty setting, achievements or beating your last time.

I'm a bit disappointed that we saw nearly everything in the cinematics before the game already... Maybe I just shouldn't watch that stuff anymore...
MagicianYang
Profile Joined July 2010
10 Posts
July 29 2010 17:39 GMT
#178
I didn't beat it yet, but the only thing I felt was dumb so far was...

+ Show Spoiler +
... when Ariel turned herself into a Zerg because she is being a baby. Jim already saved her people so many times, and during "Haven's Fall" he was only killing the infested ones and not the uncontaminated ones. Also, what about the zombie movie mission? She was fine about that?

"You're infested! You're already dead." LOL lame.
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
July 29 2010 18:30 GMT
#179
On July 30 2010 01:13 Sooner wrote:
I registered just to say this.

Man are a lot of you people spoiled. I just get really irritated on how bloody demanding and whiny anyone can be with Blizzard games. It's like reading the WoW forums, there seems to be no end to rubbish to complain about.

A lot of people seem to have serious problems having fun, relaxing and seeing something great when it's shoved in their face.
Stop living on nostalgia, it's messing with your head something fierce.

I could just rant forever about this.

I really liked the campaign, they tried to do things differently because GASP(!) it's a new game and for me it really worked.

What? Because a majority of people think the singleplayer sucked, they're obviously wrong and not entitled to their opinion because their head is clouded with nostalgia? Please. I thought the SC1 storyline was bad and it's still better than this game. It's very cheap and Blizzard could have done so many things better it's not even funny. Games deserve mass criticism so that they can improve on their product the next time. I hope Blizzard reads the critiques.
Hark!
Solai
Profile Joined September 2009
204 Posts
July 29 2010 18:37 GMT
#180
On July 30 2010 03:30 Deadlyhazard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2010 01:13 Sooner wrote:
I registered just to say this.

Man are a lot of you people spoiled. I just get really irritated on how bloody demanding and whiny anyone can be with Blizzard games. It's like reading the WoW forums, there seems to be no end to rubbish to complain about.

A lot of people seem to have serious problems having fun, relaxing and seeing something great when it's shoved in their face.
Stop living on nostalgia, it's messing with your head something fierce.

I could just rant forever about this.

I really liked the campaign, they tried to do things differently because GASP(!) it's a new game and for me it really worked.

What? Because a majority of people think the singleplayer sucked, they're obviously wrong and not entitled to their opinion because their head is clouded with nostalgia? Please. I thought the SC1 storyline was bad and it's still better than this game. It's very cheap and Blizzard could have done so many things better it's not even funny. Games deserve mass criticism so that they can improve on their product the next time. I hope Blizzard reads the critiques.


Why would you assume that the "majority" does not like the story/campaign? Because of the vocal minority, that is whining, like on every other forum on any other game/hobby,band, book etc?
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 18:57:20
July 29 2010 18:56 GMT
#181
On July 30 2010 01:13 Sooner wrote:
I registered just to say this.

Man are a lot of you people spoiled. I just get really irritated on how bloody demanding and whiny anyone can be with Blizzard games. It's like reading the WoW forums, there seems to be no end to rubbish to complain about.

A lot of people seem to have serious problems having fun, relaxing and seeing something great when it's shoved in their face.
Stop living on nostalgia, it's messing with your head something fierce.

I could just rant forever about this.

I really liked the campaign, they tried to do things differently because GASP(!) it's a new game and for me it really worked.


yes, the missions where awesome, challenging and brutal if you swing that way, its not a complaint about the game, its simply saying that with all that effort put into the game, they could have made the story better. ALOT better.

WE may be spoiled, and ultimately it wont matter. Because the people who disliked campain wont play it again. its that simple.
"Mudkip"
Deadlyhazard
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1177 Posts
July 29 2010 18:56 GMT
#182
On July 30 2010 03:37 Solai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2010 03:30 Deadlyhazard wrote:
On July 30 2010 01:13 Sooner wrote:
I registered just to say this.

Man are a lot of you people spoiled. I just get really irritated on how bloody demanding and whiny anyone can be with Blizzard games. It's like reading the WoW forums, there seems to be no end to rubbish to complain about.

A lot of people seem to have serious problems having fun, relaxing and seeing something great when it's shoved in their face.
Stop living on nostalgia, it's messing with your head something fierce.

I could just rant forever about this.

I really liked the campaign, they tried to do things differently because GASP(!) it's a new game and for me it really worked.

What? Because a majority of people think the singleplayer sucked, they're obviously wrong and not entitled to their opinion because their head is clouded with nostalgia? Please. I thought the SC1 storyline was bad and it's still better than this game. It's very cheap and Blizzard could have done so many things better it's not even funny. Games deserve mass criticism so that they can improve on their product the next time. I hope Blizzard reads the critiques.


Why would you assume that the "majority" does not like the story/campaign? Because of the vocal minority, that is whining, like on every other forum on any other game/hobby,band, book etc?


Because most people I'm seeing say they dislike it. All of my friends agree the writing is bad and even the most hardened fanboys on the battle.net forums seem to agree. It's just what I'm seeing, and I'm not sure if it's just a vocal minority.
Hark!
Gedrah
Profile Joined February 2010
465 Posts
July 29 2010 19:06 GMT
#183
The only dialogue that really hurt my skull was "It's time to kick this revolution into overdrive!" It felt very forced and uncharacteristic of Raynor. Tacked on at the end to give the trailer some american action movie appeal to the braindead, methinks. The majority of it has been great though, I love + Show Spoiler +
Tosh, Tychus, and Nova.
Swann is a pimptacular G as well.
What is a dickfour?
Brokengamer
Profile Joined April 2010
Philippines116 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 19:19:39
July 29 2010 19:19 GMT
#184
I thought the story was childish as well choosing the "good" choices... but when I played again choosing the "evil" choices... I must say the story ain't childish anymore.

Choosing the "evil" choices provided a better more mature story IMO
The_Voidless
Profile Joined March 2010
United States184 Posts
July 29 2010 21:56 GMT
#185
Plot hole? + Show Spoiler +
why didn't Mengsk stop Tycus in the Odin during media blitz or something i was totally expecting that to happen. In a cut scene Matt said he figured out his suit was rigged to shut down his organs, how could Mengsk not use him to his advantage and what was the point of killing Kerragain besides revenge?
If you're not first you're last.
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-29 22:07:24
July 29 2010 22:05 GMT
#186
On July 30 2010 03:56 Deadlyhazard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2010 03:37 Solai wrote:
On July 30 2010 03:30 Deadlyhazard wrote:
On July 30 2010 01:13 Sooner wrote:
I registered just to say this.

Man are a lot of you people spoiled. I just get really irritated on how bloody demanding and whiny anyone can be with Blizzard games. It's like reading the WoW forums, there seems to be no end to rubbish to complain about.

A lot of people seem to have serious problems having fun, relaxing and seeing something great when it's shoved in their face.
Stop living on nostalgia, it's messing with your head something fierce.

I could just rant forever about this.

I really liked the campaign, they tried to do things differently because GASP(!) it's a new game and for me it really worked.

What? Because a majority of people think the singleplayer sucked, they're obviously wrong and not entitled to their opinion because their head is clouded with nostalgia? Please. I thought the SC1 storyline was bad and it's still better than this game. It's very cheap and Blizzard could have done so many things better it's not even funny. Games deserve mass criticism so that they can improve on their product the next time. I hope Blizzard reads the critiques.


Why would you assume that the "majority" does not like the story/campaign? Because of the vocal minority, that is whining, like on every other forum on any other game/hobby,band, book etc?


Because most people I'm seeing say they dislike it. All of my friends agree the writing is bad and even the most hardened fanboys on the battle.net forums seem to agree. It's just what I'm seeing, and I'm not sure if it's just a vocal minority.


If you have

2 people loving the story.
100 thinking it's sufficiently good.
10 hating it.

What group would be most vocal? I have no idea about what group is majority or not but the "I've heard most people say" argument can often be a little iffy if you are trying to argue what "people" think in general. Of course if almost everyone you talk with say the same then it's certainly a strong indication.
_Helios_
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom3 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 00:14:32
July 30 2010 00:11 GMT
#187
~I have to say i REALLY enjoyed the story and had afew tears of shock in a certain mission with a doctor.

i think the ending itself was weak however, but not bad in the slightest.


overall i can't wait for the next game tho i do hate playing as zerg


Edit, dunno why people were complaining about the the reporter i found it funny
Burn
UmmTheHobo
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States650 Posts
July 30 2010 00:17 GMT
#188
lol wait... what were the protoss on shakuras doing this whole time?
...
The_Voidless
Profile Joined March 2010
United States184 Posts
July 30 2010 07:10 GMT
#189
On July 30 2010 09:17 UmmTheHobo wrote:
lol wait... what were the protoss on shakuras doing this whole time?

Playing cloaked hacky sack? It did not make sense to me either, like how they would go after the colonist but not the zerg themselves. Oh well the protoss missions were cool.
If you're not first you're last.
kyophan
Profile Joined January 2010
United States113 Posts
July 30 2010 07:15 GMT
#190
On July 30 2010 06:56 The_Voidless wrote:
Plot hole? + Show Spoiler +
why didn't Mengsk stop Tycus in the Odin during media blitz or something i was totally expecting that to happen. In a cut scene Matt said he figured out his suit was rigged to shut down his organs, how could Mengsk not use him to his advantage and what was the point of killing Kerragain besides revenge?


The media blitz part also confused the hell out of me.
barbsq
Profile Joined November 2009
United States5348 Posts
July 30 2010 07:17 GMT
#191
i dunno why ppl would judge the 2nd campaign by the 1st, the 1st didnt exactly have the greatest storytelling of all time either. In fact, i feel like blizzard games dont really win at all in terms of story, but on gameplay mechanics. I loved the shit out of diablo (and 2), wc2, and starcraft, but not for their stories....
Look at this guy, constantly diluting himself! (╮°-°)╮┳━┳ ( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━┻
Zerksys
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States569 Posts
July 30 2010 08:48 GMT
#192
I don't feel this way at all. I replayed the single player sc1 and brood war right before wings of liberty came out and I'd have to say that even though the plot can be kind of disconnected at certain points due to which missions you pick, on the whole sc2's campaign is a lot better than sc1. And seriously aimed at 10 year olds?? Raynor's an alchoholic who's drinking in practically every scene (I don't know if that was a spoiler or not but if so mods can open a can of whoop a** on my post.)
What's that probe doing there? It's a scout. You mean one of those flying planes? No....
Renseru
Profile Joined July 2010
United States45 Posts
July 30 2010 08:50 GMT
#193
The game is rated T for teen. Thus, teens are their target audience.

Also, if they only release expansions every 18mo why would they tell a story to people (18+) who may not still be playing games in 3 years?
You're born broke, you die broke, everything in between is variance.
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-30 09:16:25
July 30 2010 09:13 GMT
#194
yeah the brood war story was a lot better imo, and the intro to brood war and end clip for zerg were and still are brilliant. A sense of hopelessness for humanity and psychological warfare from kerrigan brought a lot more depth to the story than sc2's story, which was much more cliched....and very similar to firefly/serenity lol.

The cantina in sc2 was brilliant though . A zerg, shotgun and you, and the scribbling song were great.
hi
Supamang
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2298 Posts
July 30 2010 09:23 GMT
#195
On July 30 2010 17:50 Renseru wrote:
The game is rated T for teen. Thus, teens are their target audience.

Not necessarily. Correct me if im wrong though, but i thought the T for teen rating was supposed to represent the youngest demographic that should be playing this game, considering violence, language, sex, etc.

I think its interesting that people say SC2 campaign isn't as good as SC1 when they probably havent played SC1s in years. Also, SC:BW came out over a decade ago. That was when I was still a teenager and hadnt been through all of the awful cliches of video game characters and mediocre movies. I admit I was more into the SC1 storyline than I was playing through SC2 campaign, but taking all that into account, I doubt I would find SC1 nearly as cool now as i did before.

At the same time, I admit SC2 was pretty cliched. I thought I was ok though, it was interesting but I wasnt intrigued. Still, Ive gotten used to it when it comes to video games. From my experience, the Metal Gear Solid series has the most engrossing stories, and even they are full of cliches.

One main problem I had with SC2's story is SPOILER:
+ Show Spoiler +
In SC:BW, Jim Raynor seemed to be intent on killing Kerrigan himself after she murdered Fenix. Its like they completely forgot about that in SC2
aznhockeyboy16
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States558 Posts
July 30 2010 09:31 GMT
#196
why does everything with zeratul involved look so cool, when everything with the terrans just feels forced and sloppily done?

I'm kind of pissed that the protoss look so awesome in the cut scenes.

but the dialogue seems stupid... they should have been able to do better.
dybydx
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada1764 Posts
July 31 2010 08:41 GMT
#197
while i appreciate alot of the work blizz put into the game and details, but here is my criticism of the story dialogs.

1. the UNN news is so stupid. If they wanna show Mengsk is doing a good job with propaganda, they should at least do it right and not screw up the broadcasts all the time like a bunch of amateurs.

2. Acturus in SC had always been the seasoned politician, despite being evil. in SC2 he just get played like a 3yr old caught on camera.

3. Valerian was supposed to be portrayed as a new talent but his transmission with Acturus upon arriving in Char made him sound like a cry baby.

4. Mat Horner's vision of a "bright future" sounded too much like wishful thinking. His dialogs showed no strategic depth in politics, unlike Acturus in SC.

5. Kerrigan. Our "Queen Bitch of the Universe" somehow turned into "Horny Girl Home Alone on a Saturday Night"

I just don't see intelligence in the SC2 cast of characters anymore.
...from the land of imba
Vorla
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden32 Posts
July 31 2010 12:58 GMT
#198
Blizzard is catering to young boys with rich mothers, just like Games Workshop. When Starcraft and Brood War came out I was as old as the people they aim SC2 at are now, so it's nothing strange. Blizzards storylines have never been very awesome, very clichée and tons of plot stuff reused (Good hero turns evil and gets control over the "evil" faction, Arthas + Kerrigan and you can probably fit Sylvanas in there as well), Diablo "didn't die, he just possessed the body of the hero that kill him", everyone betrays everyone, the forces of the world must unite against an outer worldly threat to save themselves (Algalon, Mt. Hyjal, The Voice in the Void, yadayada)

I'd rather look at the consequences of the story rather than the writing, in the same way you can still enjoy the special effects (and Megan Fox) when you watch Transformers whereas the storyline is Standard American Freedomloving crap about people standing up for themselves.

In fact I was surprised at the nuance of the characters that Blizzard actually put in. They were obvious, but not as obvious as I had expected, and there was a bit of a Blade Runner feeling, like where your actions affect if a person is a twotiming backstabber or actually loyal rather than being predetermined.
wat
Chex
Profile Joined May 2010
United States87 Posts
August 04 2010 20:20 GMT
#199
I actually like the story. My problem, like that of Jinro's, is that the choice aspect of it makes the presentation a little jolted.
CyRxJustin
Profile Joined September 2010
2 Posts
September 07 2010 07:30 GMT
#200
Right from the start the story line was awful. I disagree with most of the comments that say that SC1 was cheesy or poorly written because you have to consider the technology available. 15 years ago there wasn't technology to support a lot of special effects, a lot of the finer points of the story had to be made with your imagination (One of the Blizz developers mentioned that for their earlier games they focused heavily on the art in the instruction manuals and box art because they wanted to give you a vision of the game there.)

In SC1 you were a part of the story. You didn't get to make plot choices on your own, but people addressed you. Now, I'm some mopey Jim Raynor who went from slightly stupid badass in SC1 to a calm and collected pansy who wants to hear everyone out and suddenly becomes a strategic mastermind. Also, you go walking around your ship like an RPG where everyone just waits around for you to talk to them, they don't have anything else to be doing.

The biggest flaw, however, is that they failed to convince me in this one that there was any sort of war or larger conflict. In SC1 you fought small battles, slowly advanced. In this one I rarely saw the Confederacy, no one really sent a large fleet to get in my way, and Kerrigan was all up in my shit ALL THE TIME. Mengsk never wanted to chase her down or what? Also, how the hell did some rag-tag group of do-gooders easily slide their way onto Char, the main Zerg fortification? And then once they're there, they're able to hold off the entirety of the Swarm with 5 people, one on a machine gun, and a couple Banshees flying around?

Another problem, that had been mentioned before, is the news reels. Right away Kate is like "WOW RAYNOR REALLY SAVED THE DAY HERE" which under a government such as Mengsk's would never happen as they would find it hard to believe the universe's most well-known terrorist is the good guy; and even if it did, she'd be killed. Not hard to find another cheesy faggot like the male newscaster.

The missions were a lot more fun to play than SC1, I will say that. Every mission was a new idea and I had fun, I just wish that the story wasn't fit for a children's picture book.
CyRxJustin
Profile Joined September 2010
2 Posts
September 07 2010 07:49 GMT
#201
Also, hate to double post, but i remember reading right before it came out people talking about how Blizz refused to give any copies out for reviewers to play before the release. A lot of people were worried because that's a common practice with movies/games/products that the developers know are going to get a bad review. I had hoped it was just to prevent pirated copies getting out early or to keep spoilers held back for a bit, but now I'm pretty sure it's the former theory.
darmousseh
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States3437 Posts
September 07 2010 10:04 GMT
#202
Compared to a game like mass effect or knights of the old republic the story seems really kiddish. I thought the acting was ok, but it wasn't brilliant. Also the graphics were really cartoonish. The story itself is interesting, but it felt like watching The Phantom Menace.
Developer for http://mtgfiddle.com
Touch
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada475 Posts
September 07 2010 10:39 GMT
#203
On July 31 2010 21:58 Vorla wrote:
Blizzard is catering to young boys with rich mothers, just like Games Workshop. When Starcraft and Brood War came out I was as old as the people they aim SC2 at are now, so it's nothing strange. Blizzards storylines have never been very awesome, very clichée and tons of plot stuff reused (Good hero turns evil and gets control over the "evil" faction, Arthas + Kerrigan and you can probably fit Sylvanas in there as well), Diablo "didn't die, he just possessed the body of the hero that kill him", everyone betrays everyone, the forces of the world must unite against an outer worldly threat to save themselves (Algalon, Mt. Hyjal, The Voice in the Void, yadayada)

I'd rather look at the consequences of the story rather than the writing, in the same way you can still enjoy the special effects (and Megan Fox) when you watch Transformers whereas the storyline is Standard American Freedomloving crap about people standing up for themselves.

In fact I was surprised at the nuance of the characters that Blizzard actually put in. They were obvious, but not as obvious as I had expected, and there was a bit of a Blade Runner feeling, like where your actions affect if a person is a twotiming backstabber or actually loyal rather than being predetermined.
Oh...Blizzard got bitch slapped right there
Sieg
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
September 07 2010 11:23 GMT
#204
I think what people might be missing from the SC1 campaign was a sense of epicness.

In the SC1 campaign you: Overthrow the confederacy, Invade Aiur, Launch a huge final attack against the overmind.

In the SC2 campaign you don't really do anything that epic. There are no huge showdowns except for All in and despite the level design it just cant compare to getting to control a 400/400 mixed toss/terran army.

All in all I think the SC2 campaign was pretty good. The level design was clearly 2 steps beyond SCBW and I found the missions to be very entertaining.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 12:15:25
September 07 2010 12:06 GMT
#205
its biggest problem i'd say is that it s not challenging to guess things or to speculate how things will end because it's pretty damn obvious, and all your choises you make are the right choises no matter what.

Plus the News are awfully painfully fake, Mengsk is controlling the media but "accidently" every single news bulletin turns out the other way making the Mengsk supporter caster look ridiculous every single friggin time

though some things make me think there s potential for an awesome upcoming storyline, although it might just be simple predictable stuff like this one

as for difficulty, brutal is a bit too hard to enjoy the mission with all its optional quests fully but too easy to be a real challenge to actually complete them. But i think they are really vesitle, thus i like them.

The achievments are fun, but there should be more and a lot harder too
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Ota Solgryn
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Denmark2011 Posts
September 07 2010 12:48 GMT
#206
On July 31 2010 21:58 Vorla wrote:
Blizzard is catering to young boys with rich mothers, just like Games Workshop. When Starcraft and Brood War came out I was as old as the people they aim SC2 at are now, so it's nothing strange. Blizzards storylines have never been very awesome, very clichée and tons of plot stuff reused (Good hero turns evil and gets control over the "evil" faction, Arthas + Kerrigan and you can probably fit Sylvanas in there as well), Diablo "didn't die, he just possessed the body of the hero that kill him", everyone betrays everyone, the forces of the world must unite against an outer worldly threat to save themselves (Algalon, Mt. Hyjal, The Voice in the Void, yadayada)

I'd rather look at the consequences of the story rather than the writing, in the same way you can still enjoy the special effects (and Megan Fox) when you watch Transformers whereas the storyline is Standard American Freedomloving crap about people standing up for themselves.

In fact I was surprised at the nuance of the characters that Blizzard actually put in. They were obvious, but not as obvious as I had expected, and there was a bit of a Blade Runner feeling, like where your actions affect if a person is a twotiming backstabber or actually loyal rather than being predetermined.


Wow, this is exactly how I feel. A lot of people have this fond memory of BW and it's dialog. But, really, it was as cheesy as anything. Only game Blizzard have made that was more professional was Diablo II (Not the expansion). The cinematics buildup and dialog was very well written and performed (although it was actually made by Blizzard North that is nomore )
ihasaKAROT: "Wish people would stop wasting their lives on finding flaws in others"
myIRE
Profile Joined November 2008
Belgium229 Posts
September 07 2010 13:17 GMT
#207
I partialy agree with the statement "storyline is a bit weak" but only partialy because we have seen so many good storylines comming out of games after sc1 that we expect more and more every single time. If you go back to 1998, how many well written stories and characters were there prior to release of sc1? I think alot of it just felt so grand back then because it was our first time so to speak. Don't think the story is actualy that bad, but I do agree that it could have been much better and certainly the way blizzard advertised and hyped sc2 they didnt really deliever a 100%. Having said that, I think the gameplay itself and alot of the missions are reaaly really fun and they are all very different, not something we could say about sc1, but thats because the technology wasnt as far back then. Last mission of sc1 is still one of the best to date though.
Freedom is the most contageous virus known to men.
Archerofaiur
Profile Joined August 2008
United States4101 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 13:54:31
September 07 2010 13:42 GMT
#208
On September 07 2010 22:17 myIRE wrote:
I partialy agree with the statement "storyline is a bit weak" but only partialy because we have seen so many good storylines comming out of games after sc1 that we expect more and more every single time.


Well considering there are only 5 or so real stories that humans keep retelling anyway.

I will say this though. Regardless of wether the caimpaign is viewed as good or bad, I feel it was at least different. Innovative might be a strong word to describe it but it definatly did not suffer from Avatar syndrome. I didnt immediatly jump up and say "they stole this plot from X!" So thats good.
http://sclegacy.com/news/28-scl/250-starcraftlegacy-macro-theorycrafting-contest-winners
uberdeluxe
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada306 Posts
September 07 2010 13:50 GMT
#209
Early in the campaign, nothing happens. You go on silly little missions with next to no followup. It's just, "go save those people! Good job you saved them, here's free money." Later in the campaign, it gets much better though.
No mules, no collosi, no PFs, just LOVE!
Carv
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1 Post
September 07 2010 16:00 GMT
#210
Yea the first couple of missions are pretty slow, the game really picks up pace towards the middle. Raynors voice acting is laughable at times, it's like he's constantly trying to blurt quotables but failing.
nttea
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Sweden4353 Posts
September 07 2010 16:15 GMT
#211
Wtf the story in starcraft1 was stupid as hell ~~ you just got older.
iloyi
Profile Joined July 2010
12 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 16:37:58
September 07 2010 16:30 GMT
#212
First of all, I would like to separate my opinions into 3 parts: gameplay, story and presentation.

SC2 did a great job in mission design. Each mission is unique and caters to different needs. Just throw in the question of favourite missions, and you get tons of different answers. The different difficulty settings are also a plus, playing it on harder difficulty render some strategies not practical. I am going to discuss about mission selection in SC2, as compared to linear mission system in SC, in the presentation part.

The story in SC2 universe is not that bad, is just that the way Blizzard presented it is bad.

+ Show Spoiler +
We got Raynor wants to overthrow Mengsk, doubts of Valerian's motives in helping Raynor, Zeratul's vision of the future, reason why is Tassadar still alive and had he achieved Twilight, etc. Many interesting points to develop the story further. I personally like the infestation of Dr. Hanson if you chose to side with Selendis, it gave me a pleasant surprise. Some of us might have questioned why is this happening and why is that happening, such as why is Char so easily invaded, but it could be easily answered if Blizzard explained it better.


The presentation, hmmm. In SC, I am someone in the campaign who helped the game characters. In SC2, if I am not wrong, I am supposed to be Raynor, but why do I feel like I am a ghost who constantly spying on the Hyperion's Crew? I guess the main flaw of SC2 is the mission selection system, it makes the whole story fragmented, unlike the nice story progression in SC. There will be different orders to select the missions and it just stops people from delving deeper into the story in SC2. I have more memorable moments in SC than SC2.

+ Show Spoiler +
I am asking myself why am I collecting minerals and artifacts and what happened to rebellion against Mengsk? The next thing you know is "Oh, I found this adjutant, and now Mengsk, you are dead." The Tosh/Nova and Dr. Hanson's missions have no impact in the storyline, yet (hopefully). I should just have let the colonists die. Collecting the artifacts felt like filler missions and suddenly you use the artifacts to save Kerrigan in just 3 missions after 4 years since Kerrigan defeated everyone. Blizzard should put more effort in presenting the story, such as adding plots like what had Raynor been through in the 4 years to change the mind of killing her by himself to saving her and Horner's investigation on why do everybody want the artifacts, put some dialogue between Kerrigan and Raynor in Char like "You are a lucky pig to even stand on this ground if the full might of the Swarm is here."


I actually enjoyed listening to the mission briefings in SC. Although it is just head portraits with repeating animation, the interaction among characters are much more through mere conversation and the dialogues are well written. There are just too much one-liners in SC2. Maybe Blizzard wants to maintain their standard of cut scenes and forgotten to invest more time in the dialogues. Take a look at the SC story walkthrough videos.

Tired. End.
yups
Profile Joined August 2010
Denmark116 Posts
September 07 2010 17:18 GMT
#213
I agree with both the dialog and the plot being really bad

+ Show Spoiler +
The way Dr. Hansen falls for the strong Raynor who has a troubled past he cant talk about; that's just cheesy beyond belief. And the other thing that really bugs me is that they have to invoke the complete destruction of the human race/universe by some outer dimensional entity. How many times have we seen that in WC?


I do think the gameplay in the missions is great though and overall the game is great. Also im not sure SC1 was any better (im apparently old enough that things more than 10 years back in time are... fuzzy).
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 17:23:08
September 07 2010 17:22 GMT
#214
As much as I hated the story, and will continue to hate it (+ Show Spoiler +
how can Kerrigan being 'cured' by some random Xel'Naga artifact possibly sit well with any human being on this planet?
), the gameplay was great and the achievements were fun to work towards.
EchOne
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2906 Posts
September 07 2010 17:37 GMT
#215
Difficulty: Brutal was... okay. I first jumped into the campaign at my friend's house on Brutal and I had to work a bit at the beginning few missions. I even had to restart Meinhoff a few times. Then I did a full clear on Hard. After that a full clear on Brutal was cake, essentially, because I abused the campaign design to field insane tech for troublesome missions and MM my way through everything else.

Mission Design: Excellent, relatively speaking. Very little compares in the current RTS market. I felt some CoH campaign missions were similarly engaging but that's probably because I love history. Definitely superior to anything else Blizzard has done. Unfortunately, due to difficulty or design, a sad majority of missions are solved by a relatively limited range of units and techniques. I would've liked to see more base-building missions whose designs necessitated more critical planning such as in All-In.

Storyline: Passable. Not riveting, but worth discussion, at least if some of the speculation threads that popped up shortly after release are any evidence. A tidy bundle of connections, revelations, overtones, foreshadowing. Most heroic stories are incredibly simple, as is this one, but that isn't a problem at all.

Storytelling: I'm a fan of on-rails storytelling in games since a storyteller with more agency over his story is empowered to construct something greater, so I'm biased against any open-ended system unless it's completely emergent. While the non-plot-essential paths were moderately engaging, often the player would be presented with individual missions whose story consequences, even within their own stories, were minimal. There is also the connectivity issue with the "side" missions and the main storyline.

Lastly, the revisions of canon based on which choices you took in Tosh's and Hanson's stories not only hurt immersion, they hurt the relevance of player agency, and hurt character design at its core. Really, the greatest impact of player agency in the campaign was in accessible tech and upgrades, a strictly gameplay element.

Characters: People have varying opinions on these for sure. I felt Hanson, Swann, and Egelman were particularly flat. It doesn't help that the RTS genre typically doesn't provide for much in-mission interaction with characters. A lot of people probably found the Protoss heroes more endearing simply because their appearances on the battlefield are indicative of their characters (they respond to inevitable doom by a blaze of glory and, hopefully, micro).

Essentially what I'm saying is I wanted to see more of how these characters would react to or deal with situations. Swann and Egelman... will listen to orders and fight when told. Hanson... wants her people to survive. We see none of these characters deal with crisis.

On the other hand, crises are thrown at more prominent characters like Raynor, Queen of Blades, Tychus, Zeratul, and Matt even. I feel like we do in fact learn, even a little, about these characters. We might even be able to relate to one or another. That's refreshing.

Again, Hanson and Tosh are essentially moot as characters since there is no canon. They are whatever your imagination wills them to be, and that's not character design, that's a load of bull.

Presentation: The voice acting is pretty good, especially considering it's a game and not a movie. Obviously the cinematics are visually well-crafted too. Some of the dialogue is pretty cheesy, and some of the dialogue could simply stand to be rewritten. Cheesiness, I feel, is not a relevant problem since everyone has different tolerances and some people simply like it. Sloppy lines, however, can hurt immersion, hurt our perceptions of characters, and do all sorts of terrible, terrible damage.

Most missions themselves don't act well as storytelling vehicles. I'd have loved to see more missions where characters speak and interact. It really helps make one feel as if the mission has a purpose. For instance, though you fight the Tal'Darim several times you learn almost nothing story-wise. Each of these missions amounts to, in the eyes of the story, Raynor routs the Tal'Darim at X location to secure Y key item.

The chat with characters on the Hyperion is fair, but limited. Obviously in real life, or even in RPGs, people chat a lot more and you can learn a lot more from speaking with them. Still, good flavor, and an improvement over I think all other RTS, which don't provide for such interaction.
面白くない世の中, 面白くすればいいさ
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 17:58:17
September 07 2010 17:55 GMT
#216
Gameplay on Brutal was good entertainment.

The storyline, the dialogue, the plot, and the characters came straight out of a 10 years old's brain on a particularly crappy and uninspiring day.

Those clinche movie lines hurt my ears, bad.

All the characters are stereotypes.

I don't want to complain any further. I am extremely disappointed.

If SCII is a novel without any brand association, it would be at the very bottom of the seller's list and go out of print within the first week of its release.
FindingPride
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1001 Posts
September 07 2010 18:36 GMT
#217
watered down compared to its predecessor?
Terranist
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2496 Posts
September 07 2010 19:44 GMT
#218
young teens have disposable income and activision blizzard, or the rest of big corporations know how to exploit it for their profit. twilight, hannah montana, justin beiber, call of duty... it's where the money is now days.
The Show of a Lifetime
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
September 07 2010 19:54 GMT
#219
ofc

blizz has sold out long ago, this is what makes money apparently so thats what they will do.
SCdinner
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada516 Posts
September 07 2010 20:59 GMT
#220
I felt the worst part by far was how ham fisted the protoss levels were. The last mission everyone repeating regret over the destruction of Kerrigan every other mission event and everytime a hero died. It really started to get annoying.
My other car is a battlecruiser.
Nephrahim
Profile Joined August 2010
United States38 Posts
September 07 2010 21:39 GMT
#221
I feel like SC2 story gets panned a lot more then it should because of Bioware.

i mean really, GOOD stories in games is crazy unusual. You know what games were coming out back when SC1 was out? DUKE NUKEM 3D. Yeah.

The story of SC2 is really just about the same quality as all of Blizzard's fare, it's just... it's been years, and while other companies have stepped up their storytelling game, Blizz hasn't.

Maybe they'll hire some good WRITERS instead of just BG starts with their obscene amounts of money next time.


Oh, and I did the campaign on Hard. I was going to do it on brutal afterward, but it keeps screwing me out of the achievements, so I just got tired of re-doing missions.
strongwind
Profile Joined July 2007
United States862 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-07 21:51:08
September 07 2010 21:44 GMT
#222
After re-watching all of the SC1 dialogue and story recently, I feel pretty much the same way I did as before. The dialogue was great and the story was epic. If anything, the Brood War story wasn't as great as I remembered it, but was still very good. The whole nostalgia argument doesn't really fly for me. How anyone can say the SC2 dialogue was better is beyond me...

edit: and for all of the people saying all of Blizzard's storylines have been bad...really? I loved Diablo 2 and Starcraft, and I actually didn't think WC3 was that bad. I've played a lot of single player games and haven't met many that have surpassed these in terms of epic-ness, dialogue, and execution. What games far surpass them? I'm actually really curious.
Taek Bang Fighting!
Nephrahim
Profile Joined August 2010
United States38 Posts
September 07 2010 22:03 GMT
#223
On September 08 2010 06:44 strongwind wrote:
After re-watching all of the SC1 dialogue and story recently, I feel pretty much the same way I did as before. The dialogue was great and the story was epic. If anything, the Brood War story wasn't as great as I remembered it, but was still very good. The whole nostalgia argument doesn't really fly for me. How anyone can say the SC2 dialogue was better is beyond me...

edit: and for all of the people saying all of Blizzard's storylines have been bad...really? I loved Diablo 2 and Starcraft, and I actually didn't think WC3 was that bad. I've played a lot of single player games and haven't met many that have surpassed these in terms of epic-ness, dialogue, and execution. What games far surpass them? I'm actually really curious.


Mass Effect, one and two, by miles and miles and miles.
Superdog
Profile Joined September 2010
10 Posts
September 08 2010 03:09 GMT
#224
Admittedly, I didn't read this whole thread (it is twelve pages after all), but my main problem with the SC2 SP storyline was how the branching story lines didn't affect one another. It's a cool concept and it makes the campaign more fun, but unless you decide to skip some of the levels it doesn't have much effect. I think that any level you don't HAVE to beat to finish the game should have some benefit.

For example: After Media Blitz, the media turns against Mengsk. Until you play the next non-Matt Horner level. How about a long term effect? Dominion defections gives you extra Battlecruisers on the last level? Or just something in Story Mode? Kate Lockwell embeds aboard the Hyperion? Alternate news broadcasts? If you side with Dr. Hanson maybe you get an extra anti-zerg ability, if you side with the protoss you get to use a few Protoss units on another level? Side with Tosh and you get to control him as a hero on another level, same with Nova? Stuff like that.
Jankem
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada42 Posts
September 08 2010 06:47 GMT
#225
Campaign in my opinion is like - Kerrigan is the problem! Lets confront her! The end.
Terran. Period.
Chocobo
Profile Joined November 2006
United States1108 Posts
September 08 2010 07:17 GMT
#226
In the "stupid dialogue" competition, for me the worst is when you're doing the protoss mission against the endless waves of zerg. You've got a large base and a huge army, all the important protoss heroes show up one by one and fight with you... the fight keeps going and going, but more and more zerg keep coming... eventually one hero falls in the fight... then another. The zerg just never stop coming until everything is lost. It's a really effective moment, it shows how seriously the zerg threat really is...

And then the Dark Voice quotes the A-Team while we inexplicably watch some random planet turn completely black within one second. "I love it when a plan comes together". RUINED EVERYTHING THAT THE MISSION BUILT UP TO.
Serpico
Profile Joined May 2010
4285 Posts
September 08 2010 07:22 GMT
#227
TIDINGS OF DOOOOOOOOOMM!!! ruined it from a dialogue perspective for me.
kasumimi
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Greece460 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-08 08:28:12
September 08 2010 08:27 GMT
#228
Core developers that made SC:BW, Diablo 1-2 etc are not longer working for Blizzard.
Hell.... the lead designer of SC2 is the guy who made Red Alert 2...
writer22816
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States5775 Posts
September 08 2010 08:42 GMT
#229
On September 08 2010 16:17 Chocobo wrote:
In the "stupid dialogue" competition, for me the worst is when you're doing the protoss mission against the endless waves of zerg. You've got a large base and a huge army, all the important protoss heroes show up one by one and fight with you... the fight keeps going and going, but more and more zerg keep coming... eventually one hero falls in the fight... then another. The zerg just never stop coming until everything is lost. It's a really effective moment, it shows how seriously the zerg threat really is...

And then the Dark Voice quotes the A-Team while we inexplicably watch some random planet turn completely black within one second. "I love it when a plan comes together". RUINED EVERYTHING THAT THE MISSION BUILT UP TO.


yeah that made no sense at all hahaha

But a lot of the dialogue really made me cringe. Raynor/Matt exchanging one-liners, everything Tal'darim, Mengsk, and Kerrigan.
8/4/12 never forget, never forgive.
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
September 08 2010 08:42 GMT
#230
Diablo, Wc3 and Starcraft all share a basic element in a champion gone rouge (Arthas, Kerrigan & the hero from D1) anyone thought of this?

Anyways I like the storyline somewhat but overall I would have liked it to be more mystic and OMG for the characters involved. It's not dark enough for me I guess.

The missions are GREAT fun though and I love the upgrades etc

Bacillus
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland2021 Posts
September 08 2010 10:08 GMT
#231
The missions are good, the storyline is bland.

I don't know about the nostalgia arguments. I did my first run on SC and BW a few years back and especially the original campaign felt way smarter even then.

SC1 had minimalistic and focused storytelling. The characters had a picture and good voice acting and decent dialogue. You could fill the rest with your own imagination.

BW was a bit more cliched, but it had it's moments too.

Now in SC2 most of the stuff is explained directly, everything zooms up close and yet there's no extra detail to anything. It just kills viewer's imagination and offers nothing in return.

+ Show Spoiler [SC2 spoiler] +
I also really dislike how everything turns into propechies and chosen's of the fate. SC1 had it's own mysticism with templars, dark energies and such, but it never stated that the whole thingy was more than a huge insterstellar collision between the 3 races and their interests. The whole chosen by the fate thingy makes character choises bland, there's hardly any proper personal motive in anything.
Karl Maka
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada55 Posts
September 08 2010 12:33 GMT
#232
im 15 and i sorta like the campagin makes u keeps guessin stff
AY YA NE GE SI DOI BAO
rea1ity
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom385 Posts
September 08 2010 13:25 GMT
#233
I like the lore but the campaign missions can't keep me entertained..
그 스타 크래프트의 꿈, 그 꿈 생활
Bloodash
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands1384 Posts
September 08 2010 13:32 GMT
#234
I had the same feeling, couldn't care about the campaign anymore, think I'm about halfway, I remember the WC3 and Diablo 1/2 story feeling much more compelling, I pray Diablo 3 will not have these problems, Blizzard was always such a good immersive storyteller... :/
I'll bite this hand that feeds me, and take it for my own!
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
September 08 2010 14:18 GMT
#235
On September 08 2010 17:42 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Diablo, Wc3 and Starcraft all share a basic element in a champion gone rouge (Arthas, Kerrigan & the hero from D1) anyone thought of this?

Anyways I like the storyline somewhat but overall I would have liked it to be more mystic and OMG for the characters involved. It's not dark enough for me I guess.

The missions are GREAT fun though and I love the upgrades etc


in TFT/Wc3/BW Evil wins in the end..(Scourge frees Ner'Zhul/Kerrigan Takes control of the Korpulu(sp?) sector/Diablo takes over the hero)
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Nephrahim
Profile Joined August 2010
United States38 Posts
September 08 2010 22:34 GMT
#236
In WC3 Good wins (Archimonde destroyed at the world tree)

It's true that that last xpack of Blizz RTSes tends to end with evil triumphing.

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that the people who used to work at Blizz during BW aren't there anymore. Rob Pardo is VP of Blizz, he just got promoted since the BW days. It's true some people left (Bill Roper comes to mind...) but most of them remain.


I dunno. I really think this storyline is right around where all of them are, you're just being nostalgic about it. You need the guy with the glasses to review Starcraft 1.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
September 08 2010 23:00 GMT
#237
On September 09 2010 07:34 Nephrahim wrote:
In WC3 Good wins (Archimonde destroyed at the world tree)

It's true that that last xpack of Blizz RTSes tends to end with evil triumphing.

And I'm not sure where you get the idea that the people who used to work at Blizz during BW aren't there anymore. Rob Pardo is VP of Blizz, he just got promoted since the BW days. It's true some people left (Bill Roper comes to mind...) but most of them remain.


I dunno. I really think this storyline is right around where all of them are, you're just being nostalgic about it. You need the guy with the glasses to review Starcraft 1.


He means that the same people are no longer developing the game..which is entirely true.

and it shows.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
RavenNevermore
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada66 Posts
September 08 2010 23:28 GMT
#238
We can't really judge the storyline as if it were complete at this point. That would be like judging the Starcraft 1 Storyline on the merrits of the Terran Campaign only.

If you recall, the Terran campaign in Starcraft 1 was as simple as ever. Aliens invading, our hero works to save the innocent, thus branding himself as a criminal in the eyes of the corrupt government. He teams up with a rebel group who winds up being no better than the government, so he finds himself outlawed again.
Simple, if not a little cliche.

When we moved on to the Zerg and Protoss campaigns, we really got the meat of the story and got a greater glimpse of what is at stake beyond our little narrow vision.

Again, we can't judge this story as if it were completed, it's only a third done at the moment,

I do defend the story, I think it's unfinished and has great potential, but nobody can deny the dialogue in Starcraft 1 is vastly better, particularly from the Protoss, particularly from Zeratul.

"You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities... Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream. A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare."

moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-08 23:46:27
September 08 2010 23:38 GMT
#239
On September 09 2010 08:28 RavenNevermore wrote:
Again, we can't judge this story as if it were completed, it's only a third done at the moment,

That argument is so weak.. people need to stop going back to it. We can judge SC2 on its own, because its a full game, shipped for $60, has a lot more missions (the fact the they're storyline filler is Blizzard's fault, not the users' ) and is its own title. If the SC1 shipped with only the 10 terran missions, then yes it would have been a terrible story, but it didn't. Both games had an introduction (first couple of missions), development, and a conclusion.

Did Tolkein expect people to not judge The Fellowship of the Ring on its own? What about each of the Star wars movies? it doesn't work like that. When all 3 chapters of SC2 are done, you can compare the trilogy to SC+BW, or any other complete arc, but they definitely should be judged on their own as well, and as it stands, SC2 WoL is a terrible story, and 90% meaningless filler.

Why didn't Kerrigan destroy the humans after BW ended? why turtle for 4 years? why is Raynor so much more emo than he was with BW where he pretty much got over the severe loss of Kerrigan? How did zerg go from being such a force in SC2 to being Terran's little bitches again? where did the Tal'darim (which were outcasts) get all the new tech like the Mothership, Voidray, etc?

Story starts, characters don't show any development over the past 4 years, and what personality they had in the past was forgotten. You merc out some missions for no real reason other than to make money, and then when you start ramping up to take down Mengsk, you all of a sudden decide to go deal with Kerrigan instead and drop everything else.

I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Aregk
Profile Joined August 2010
Greece13 Posts
September 08 2010 23:41 GMT
#240
Right before the release of SC2, I played (again) through all the missions of SC1 and BW. The campaigns were yet for another time quite entertaining but i'd like to point out something that IMO contributed to the cult status of the storytelling in the predecessors of WoL.

I will refer to the plot without spoilers because I think that anyone reading this thread should at least have finished the campaign. You cannot express an opinion on something without knowing it in its entirety. If you haven't played through the campaign, go do that instead of whining here. It will serve you better.

So, because of the technological level and game logistics of that time, the biggest part of the campaign of SC1 was left to your imagination. And of course there was an epic story, full of twists, which was not told from one single perspective but three. Seeing the demise of Kerrigan in the Terran campaign and then struggling as Zerg to insure her birth was by far one of the best moments for me in any game -and I've played quite a lot of them.

My point being that we have yet to see the other two parts of the SC2 saga. Sure, the dialog was toned down and it was far too explicit so that it can serve as an introduction to anyone who hasn't played SC as a young nerd. And yes, it is only after the Protoss missions that the plot thickens, only to live you with a lot of question marks. But overall the production values were far better than SC1. As for the simplicity of the dialogs I'd like to think that it serves its goal. Jim Raynor is no Adama. He is a hillbilly turned revolutionary symbol. This is how he should talk and behave. From SC1, Terran were presented as naive, compulsory and a little bit country ;-).

So I did enjoy the campaign and I can't wait for the sequels. Especially the Protoss one, where I believe all loose ends will be addressed and we will have the whole picture to judge.
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-08 23:51:45
September 08 2010 23:49 GMT
#241
He is a hillbilly turned revolutionary symbol. This is how he should talk and behave.


He is former Spec ops turned rogue turned marshal, turned rogue, turned revolutionary symbol. Look up Gary Stu, they don’t make for interesting storytelling and Raynor is just one Gary Stu out of the 10 present in wings of liberty. Atleast in starcraft broodwar you didnt know how bland they where.
"Mudkip"
strongwind
Profile Joined July 2007
United States862 Posts
September 08 2010 23:50 GMT
#242
On September 08 2010 07:03 Nephrahim wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2010 06:44 strongwind wrote:
After re-watching all of the SC1 dialogue and story recently, I feel pretty much the same way I did as before. The dialogue was great and the story was epic. If anything, the Brood War story wasn't as great as I remembered it, but was still very good. The whole nostalgia argument doesn't really fly for me. How anyone can say the SC2 dialogue was better is beyond me...

edit: and for all of the people saying all of Blizzard's storylines have been bad...really? I loved Diablo 2 and Starcraft, and I actually didn't think WC3 was that bad. I've played a lot of single player games and haven't met many that have surpassed these in terms of epic-ness, dialogue, and execution. What games far surpass them? I'm actually really curious.


Mass Effect, one and two, by miles and miles and miles.

I've played about halfway through Mass Effect one recently, and I'll try to finish both one and two in the near future. The game is good, but from what I've played so far, your assertion that it's "miles and miles and miles" better is overstated. They both have very different universes / genres / plots, so I find it very hard to say that one is vastly superior to the other. I think both work very well for their respective universes.

And the nostalgia argument is getting really tiring. I'll be the first to admit if something is different the second time around (I just re-watched the movie Bloodsport with Van Damme....wow I loved it as a kid, but man it's bad haha), but for me SC1 is still as engaging as it was in the past.

On September 09 2010 08:28 RavenNevermore wrote:
"You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities... Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream. A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare."

Quotes like that still give me a hard-on. Zeratul is such a bad-ass.
Taek Bang Fighting!
moopie
Profile Joined July 2009
12605 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-08 23:58:00
September 08 2010 23:57 GMT
#243
On September 09 2010 08:50 strongwind wrote:
I've played about halfway through Mass Effect one recently, and I'll try to finish both one and two in the near future. The game is good, but from what I've played so far, your assertion that it's "miles and miles and miles" better is overstated.


ME1's storyline was great. Much like SC2:WoL though, ME2 had shiny graphics, but a watered down combat/skill system and poor storyline that goes nowhere. ME2 wasn't even ME anymore, it was GoW in space.
I'm going to sleep, let me get some of that carpet.
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 00:03:16
September 09 2010 00:02 GMT
#244
On September 09 2010 08:57 moopie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 09 2010 08:50 strongwind wrote:
I've played about halfway through Mass Effect one recently, and I'll try to finish both one and two in the near future. The game is good, but from what I've played so far, your assertion that it's "miles and miles and miles" better is overstated.


ME1's storyline was great. Much like SC2:WoL though, ME2 had shiny graphics, but a watered down combat/skill system and poor storyline that goes nowhere. ME2 wasn't even ME anymore, it was GoW in space.


what? did you honestly expect to save the world every game? I liked mass effect one. I LOVED mass effect 2, it took away the bad skill / gear system of the old game and made it slightly better at the cost of gear grinding. Gathering a team and fighting the good fight in space has never been more fun. xD

Same with dragon age orgins / awakening. While i can agree that they watered down dialogue somewhat, it certainly was worth your time. Unlike Wings of liberty campain.
"Mudkip"
Aregk
Profile Joined August 2010
Greece13 Posts
September 09 2010 00:11 GMT
#245
On September 09 2010 08:49 Madkipz wrote:
Show nested quote +
He is a hillbilly turned revolutionary symbol. This is how he should talk and behave.


He is former Spec ops turned rogue turned marshal, turned rogue, turned revolutionary symbol. Look up Gary Stu, they don’t make for interesting storytelling and Raynor is just one Gary Stu out of the 10 present in wings of liberty. Atleast in starcraft broodwar you didnt know how bland they where.


Well, I was referring to his mentality more than to his actual bio.

He is a walking cliche most of the time, I do agree, but he is also acting along the well established Terran mentality context.

The only "above Terran average" character on board the Hyperion seems to be Matt Horner. But he too is quite idealistic most of the time.

But still, I didn't expect them to act as Protoss executors. This exact blandness is what differentiates them from the other races. So, I still stand to my point that the Terran portion of the SC2 saga was satisfyingly executed.


bubO
Profile Joined August 2010
United States367 Posts
September 09 2010 00:34 GMT
#246
i thoguht it was ok... and im 13 -.-
Protoss...
Nephrahim
Profile Joined August 2010
United States38 Posts
September 09 2010 01:25 GMT
#247
To each their own. I'm not going to force "ME is better then SC's story" down your throat, but... Have you read Mezen's Short stories? I think modern game companies hire actually writers these days, much like a movie crew does. I could be wrong.... but it feels like SC2 was just written by Mezen, the same SC1 was.

I mean, I think the Blizzard guys are a bunch of fun nerds... I just feel like storytelling isn't their strongest point.


And I think the poster on the last point who mentioned things being left to your imagination has a good point. I mean, they never showed you anything in the first game, 99% of what happened was inferred or happened in the battles you were playing. Even things like Kerrigan's capture.

The cinematics they made for that look awesome, but nothing is more awesome then what you imagined.

The same for the QoB design. A lot of people have pointed out how silly she looks with the high heels (And they are silly) but take a real close look at her model in the BW stuff... It looks AWFUL.
VonLego
Profile Joined June 2010
United States519 Posts
September 09 2010 03:06 GMT
#248
On July 29 2010 00:51 krypti_c wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2010 00:49 HandBanana wrote:
Maybe a bit too easy, but still a fun experience.


1)Play on brutal
2)Cry
3)?????
4)Profit

User was warned for this post



On brutal the game play was fantastic, but that doesn't change the fact that the story and several of the characters felt terrible. Dr. Hansen was the worst...
Night1989
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany19 Posts
September 09 2010 03:55 GMT
#249
In my opinion it's funny how everybody must blame blizzard for their bad storytelling. Could you do better? :>
Ene mene mite, wer haxort durch die kiste? NAZGUL!!!1
Kentor *
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5784 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 04:10:46
September 09 2010 04:10 GMT
#250
Rated Teen = worse products.
vectorix108
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States4633 Posts
September 09 2010 04:36 GMT
#251
yeah i feel that all the characters just represent a stereotype. their dialogue is really predicable.
Aka XephyR/Shaneyesss
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
September 09 2010 05:46 GMT
#252
Yes, the campaign is absolutely terrible. It's pathetic in scope compared to SC/BW, the characters are unlikable and stereotypical, the "hero" is an emo git, the missions are fragmented, the cutscenes are overblown and lacking any humour, the drama is stupid and forced, the character arcs are straight fucking lines, and the dialogue is pain-inducing. Mind, I did get off some old school PC RPGs before doing the SC2 campaign, so the shift was probably even more jarring.

I wouldn't even care, except the SC and BW campaigns were good and were really well told. They had good science fiction authors working on the story for them, because at the time their employees understood that creating an interesting world for people to immerse themselves in would elevate an otherwise good game into something truly memorable. But, like every other fucking game company today, Blizzard has long since axed their creativity division and replaced it with Michael Bay just in time for the stupid epidemic known as the World of Warcraft era.


Hell, let's fucking recap, shall we? Here's what took place in the Terran campaign in StarCraft.


The shithole fringe colonies - where men were real men who drank liquid nitrogen and farted vulture mines - were suddenly invaded and attacked by the xenocidal Zerg. Nitrogen guzzlers though they were, they stood no chance against the menace. Marshall James Raynor defied direct orders, rallied the colonists, and made a desperate stand. The colonists were saved thanks to the intervention of the rebel group The Sons of Korhal, but Raynor himself was subsequently arrested for disobeying orders.

Meanwhile, ships from an unknown, super advanced alien race arrive and, without warning, completely incinerate multiple Terran worlds. Suddenly the Terrans are faced with a bloody war against two seemingly malevolent alien races. Oh, and some guy got his head and body ripped apart in one of the ingame cinematics because Blizzard had balls back then, but I digress.

It turns out the Terran government prioritised the preventing of news spreading about the Zerg's existence over saving the lives of any colonists, because they were trying to use the Zerg as potential biological superweapons. This in turn brought the Protoss down, who feared an epidemic that would wipe out all life in the galaxy. However, a Protoss Templar, Tassadar, defied his orders to indiscriminately obliterate the remaining Terran worlds and potentially ending the menace right then and there. In desperation, he sought out alternate and forbidden means by which to destroy the Zerg. His long journey would lead him deep into darkness.

Meanwhile, Raynor was rescued by the rebel group The Sons of Korhal, led by Arcturus Mengsk, the local Bearded Badass. Together with Mengsk's second in command, the ghost Sarah Kerrigan, they liberate the colonies from the vice grip of the Terran Dominion, and through Mengsk's determined planning they save and recruit a valuable Dominion general: General Duke, incidentally the same man who abandoned the colonies to die rather than risk spreading knowledge of the Zerg's existence. Love blossoms between Raynor and Kerrigan, and through their combined efforts, hope slowly returns to the colonies.

Then Mengsk deliberately lures the Zerg to a fully colonized planet in order to eradicate every living person on it, and abandons Kerrigan to die on the planet out of spite because she objected to the plan.

Jesus!

Raynor, appalled by Mengsk's actions, fervently rushes to rescue Sarah, but he's too late. Sarah's position is overwhelmed by the Zerg, and she is taken. Mengsk overthrows the old earth government and crowns himself emperor.

Yeah, did I mention the good guys lose?


Here's what happens in the Terran campaign in StarCraft 2:

Raynor's Raiders liberate some colonists. They hunt for some alien artifacts because the plot says so. Raynor whines about Kerrigan. Resident MacGuffin Marcus Fenix Tychus Findlay may or may not be a traitor. They liberate some more colonists. Raynor plays the arcade. They hunt for some more alien artifacts. Raynor whines about Kerrigan. Raynor sobers up. They hunt for some more alien artifacts. Raynor whines about Kerrigan.

WHAT THE FUCK?

It's something like 10 hours before anything of significance happens in the storyline, and even once stuff does happen it's so poorly written and executed that I find myself wanting to skip all the cutscenes just so I can get back to the one redeeming quality: The gameplay.

I won't kid myself: I'm still buying the expansions. What else can I do; Blizzard will probably force me to if I want to play with anyone. But the campaign? It can fuck itself with a rusty tank barrel. For that matter, so can Diablo 3.
TL+ Member
strongwind
Profile Joined July 2007
United States862 Posts
September 09 2010 06:34 GMT
#253
Wow Aylear, that was a great read haha. A bit embellished, but still great ^^

And I totally agree on the last part. As much as I might complain about SC2, a part of me knows I'll still end up buying the other campaigns, and probably D3 too (although thinking about how they could ruin that too makes me so sadface ). The inner Blizzard fanboy inside me compels me to do it. But I'll probably set my sights elsewhere in the future. Blizz has lost its "get out of jail free" card with me.
Taek Bang Fighting!
Hanners
Profile Joined August 2009
United States142 Posts
September 09 2010 07:53 GMT
#254
This story was shit:

+ Show Spoiler +

Pretty much everything has been said before, but as a female gamer, I feel the need to add my 2 cents on a very specific point:

Fuck you, Blizzard for neutering Kerrigan. She was a complete badass, but your shitty writers and your need to appeal to horny teenagers ruined what could've potentially been one of the most awesome characters of all time. I'll keep up with how this story unfolds, but if there's any chance that she could have maintained her position and just general badassery as the queen of blades, I want the main writer taken out back, pissed on, and shot in the face.

Seriously, she was a badass. The ending of this game portrayed a feeling of her being glad that some kind of nightmare was over. FUCK THAT. Her choices were hers just as much as any "zerg influence." Even in the last mission, she was so full of anger and hate, that she would come out and fuck shit up herself. One cinematic later with *no* explanation, everything's fucking sunchine and rainbows again? Fucking pathetic, Blizzard. Get your shit together.
Were all mad here. Im mad. Youre mad.
StarBrift
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden1761 Posts
September 09 2010 08:06 GMT
#255
Yeah I agree. The first game actually had conversations between characters that were realistic. In sc2 it's just a bunch of one liners arnold style and it really cheapens the experience. Why does every single thing that come out of raynors mouth have to be soooo cooool?
Jarhead
Profile Joined September 2009
United States53 Posts
September 09 2010 11:22 GMT
#256
I completely agree with the last four posts. But I feel one detail has been left out: the entire story is one gigantic plot-hole, and completely contradictory to old SC lore.

Remember that little novel that came with SC1, that explained the history of all three races? According to that, the Xel Naga, disappointed by the Protoss, left Aiur in search of a new species to evolve, before ever encountering the zerg or the ancestors of the zerg.

Spoilr'd:
+ Show Spoiler +
So why the hell did they leave behind artifacts specifically tailored to kill ONLY zerg (a race they had not yet created) and to revert anything that had been assimilated by the zerg back to human?


It is completely stupid and is ruining my childhood. Hanners says it best... + Show Spoiler +
They ruined a great villain in a completely illogical manner for the sole purpose of having a feel-good ending.


Starcraft was better without happy endings.
AlecPyron
Profile Joined May 2010
United States131 Posts
September 09 2010 12:14 GMT
#257
On September 09 2010 12:55 Night1989 wrote:
In my opinion it's funny how everybody must blame blizzard for their bad storytelling. Could you do better? :>


Yeah, I'm pretty much sure some people here could at least match the quality of WOL's storytelling even for free. WoL is fanfiction material at best.

They could have added things like logs while you are at Hyperion, so most of left out materials from the novels or those missing years could be told better. They did a good job marketing the singleplayer, but the ending result is "that's it/all?" kind of reaction.
Aylear
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Norway3988 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 21:44:48
September 09 2010 21:40 GMT
#258
On September 09 2010 12:55 Night1989 wrote:
In my opinion it's funny how everybody must blame blizzard for their bad storytelling. Could you do better? :>


Yes, I genuinely could. That said, it has no bearing on the complaints: I wasn't being paid money by Blizzard to tell a story. The authors of Wings of Liberty were. They failed at it.

It's like complaining about a new car because the doors open inward. Even if I couldn't personally engineer a working car door, I know enough not to make it open fucking inwards.
TL+ Member
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
September 09 2010 22:32 GMT
#259
SC2's storyline was a complete mistake and they should seriously consider crossing out WoL from the Canon and start over again. Broodwar had such an epic set up for SC2, yet WoL totally ruins it by throwing everything out of the window and ruining all the characters and adding a whole DESTINY theme.

For instance, If Mengsk stayed true to his character and stayed smart, he would've enticed Jim to join him (temporarily) to kill Kerrigan. Instead he got down syndrome and it resulted in the shithead-fest known as WoL..

And what the fuck is with Jim wanting to save Kerrigan for god's sake? He was the man who was supposed to kill her by any means. Ending SC2 w/ a Terran Campaign (Zerg-Protoss-Terran would've been an ideal story order) that ended with Jim shooting Kerrigan would've been perfect (then we can have Duran take control of the Swarm and set up for the Expansion). But instead we got some stupid shit Deus-ex machina ala artifacts that turned her human.. -_-

WoL had almost NONE of the intrigue, good dialogue, likable characters, backstabbing, covert schemes and grand plots that made SC/BW truly epic. All we got was Tychus being Mengsk's bitch, woohoo.. Please just cross WoL off the canon and start over
Writerptrk
dukethegold
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada5645 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 22:56:44
September 09 2010 22:52 GMT
#260
On September 09 2010 12:55 Night1989 wrote:
In my opinion it's funny how everybody must blame blizzard for their bad storytelling. Could you do better? :>


The point is, Blizzard CAN do better and DID do better than this. We EXPECTED better than this watered down hugwash.

There are websites out there DEVOTED to Starcraft Fanfic and a good number of them centered upon possible continuations of Brood War's storyline. I can tell you right now that SCII's shit is worse than a lot of them.

And YES, I can tell you right now that I can write a story hella a lot better than this shit.
[N3O]r3d33m3r
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany673 Posts
September 09 2010 23:03 GMT
#261
the campaign was great, not A(+) material but good. i think iti s better than wc3 campaign which was already epic so i dunno what all the fuss is about^^
aimed at 13 year olds? no, i think they were trying to aim at the people who never played sc before, so that those guys can follow the storyline well.
teekesselchen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany886 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-09 23:10:43
September 09 2010 23:08 GMT
#262
The story was so flat and boring, those characters especially. No mystery to them.
It feels like they just copied some bad hollywood stuff, you know most movies they produce have the same kind of one-dimensionality and flatness.
Watching these characters almost makes me freeze because they are so soulless.

In general: Every male having ridiculous amounts of muscles while all woman were standard slim-pretty-type.
Jim Raynor presented as the "tragic hero" who has to make harsh decisions but remains totally boring all over the storyline. Cliche.
His prison bro beeing the stupid pugnacious guy getting exited for big weapons... yeah boring cliche type.
Matt Horner... does he even have a soul? I don't think so.
The Mechanic Nerd... big times cliche. Even worse: The scientific nerd.
Even KERRIGAN! She just turned out to be the arrogant wannabe serene-pugnacious whatsoever thing, also very bloodless presentation.
List to be continued with any character appearing in the whole story line.

Wow those characters were so so boring. Incredible. Warcraft 3 characters were just 20x cooler. There wasn't much information about them, but they still were kinda epic. Arthas didn't even have to speak, he just had to enter the room in his incredibly bad ass death knight armor and stab his father to explain everything about him.
But they found the right scale to everything. Epicness doesn't increase by just giving a badass armor to everyone and making them have 150kg 0% fat super muscles.

This amount of cliche is nice to present to let's say 8 yrs old children. If they grow older, they notice that it's just bloodless cliche and will get bored over it.
When they were introduced, he made a witticism, hoping to be liked. She laughed extremely hard, hoping to be liked. Then each drove home alone, staring straight ahead, with the very same twist to their faces.
lardlord
Profile Joined July 2010
United States22 Posts
September 09 2010 23:42 GMT
#263
Spoiler alert!!
Sc1 story definitely had me crying more than I'd like to admit. You guys cant tell me that you didnt shed a few tears when Zasz was slain. :'( ... i can't go on. I'm sorry. i have to go.
kariido
Profile Joined December 2007
Saudi Arabia179 Posts
September 10 2010 00:42 GMT
#264
Blizzard should take notice of this thread and reinvision what the storyline for SC2 is.

In short, it did feel childish and unpolished. I much preferred BW's storyline and structure to that of WoL.
http://campaignforliberty.org/
Night1989
Profile Joined January 2009
Germany19 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-11 08:03:43
September 11 2010 07:55 GMT
#265
@ Aylear It's not untipically that blizzard is paying the wrong people for their stories. I just don't like it if everybody is flaming about a story which is acutally bad but never wrote a story on their own (the next step would to write a story that was published) Since i am a storywriter... eh since i'm 10 ^^ i can agree that the story is totally dumbass. The mainconcept was good, even the ending the author (i don't know his name lol) just fucking failed epic. The whole problem is that you don't get the point why you are doing the missions. Guess it's hard to fulfill blizzards requirements. It could possible be that the author(s) were told to write a very clichefull story.

@dukethegold Yep, and i am one author of one fanfiction about the continuing of bw. But i don't agree that there are many ff which are good. The major stories sucks ass cause they are written by 16 y old teenagers which love a game to much. Sometimes they don't even really know the sc +bw stories.
In my opinion the problem was a lack of depth in storytelling. Would have been an awesome story just with a lil rewriting and... oh yeah for sure other dialogues xD
As a child i was... yeah i was a fan of the sc story. I read it once again... before sc2 was released and i ahve to say... This story isn't great at all, too. I think it was so epic for me cause i just added so much details which were wrong. Same tip for you. Fill the lack of story in sc2 on your own. use your head.
To sum up, i never thought that the story of sc2 would be great. I guess 70% of the people who buyed this game are not really interested in the story. Just multiplayer whoring. yeah sad but true. And if you ask me if there should anyone write the next LotR part i would say no. Just because it would fail so hard.
@Aylear i rofl hard at your sum up :D
mfg
btw dont blame me for my fucked up english, i'm neither english nor american
Ene mene mite, wer haxort durch die kiste? NAZGUL!!!1
iloyi
Profile Joined July 2010
12 Posts
September 12 2010 14:54 GMT
#266
On September 10 2010 08:03 r3d33m3r wrote:
no, i think they were trying to aim at the people who never played sc before, so that those guys can follow the storyline well.

Isn't SC aimed at teens and new players too, at the time it was released? In fact, the mystery, twist, and depth in SC, which was slowly unfolded during the storytelling, made SC epic.

On September 11 2010 16:55 Night1989 wrote:
In my opinion the problem was a lack of depth in storytelling. Would have been an awesome story just with a lil rewriting and... oh yeah for sure other dialogues xD

I agree. I saw potential in SC2 WoL storyline but Blizzard just wasted it.
vonterribad
Profile Joined July 2010
Australia50 Posts
September 12 2010 17:05 GMT
#267
[B]
Matt Horner... does he even have a soul? I don't think so.


That made me chuckle.

I do agree blizzard could of stepped it up a notch; the opening scenes I felt were actually pretty strong and created a create sense of interest in the world (the whole space cowboy western type feel).

It definitely started to go down towards the end; that was when so much of the dialogue was terribly cliche. Of course none of the characters really had any arc to them at all, except maybe 1 (dont want to spoil anything).

Malabyte
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway75 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 17:19:54
September 12 2010 17:18 GMT
#268
I agree with the OP on some things. At times, I sort of felt that Raynor was this stupid hillbillie with not intellectual thought process whatsoever. He's gonna save the universe on a gut feeling, for instance. Also, too often we see socalled intellectualism protrayed like Geeks who just talk ridiculously technically, they're not necessarily intelligent. Reminds me of The Big Bang Theory, where none of the guys show any major signs of an actual superior intelligence. They're just physics-enthusiasts.

We see it time and again, even in The Day the Earth Stood Still, where the intellectual reasoning of Klaatu (Keanu Reeves) clearly shows that the movie was made by averagely intelligent (if not less-than-average) humans. No disrespect to Keanu though, he's just getting paid for a role.
"I came, I saw and I got the heck outta there."
optical630
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom768 Posts
September 12 2010 17:21 GMT
#269
zeratuls' dialogue was so cliche i could of cried
cmos543
Profile Joined October 2008
220 Posts
September 12 2010 17:41 GMT
#270
TBH the vast majority of games are easy. I played Dragon age origins first run through on the highest difficulty without dieing but a few times. Name me a game that isn't easy.
You shall not misuse your screen name by using anonymity to sin
insult
Profile Joined August 2008
59 Posts
September 12 2010 18:15 GMT
#271
On September 13 2010 02:41 cmos543 wrote:
TBH the vast majority of games are easy. I played Dragon age origins first run through on the highest difficulty without dieing but a few times. Name me a game that isn't easy.


ADOM
Xeris: "Think of Haypro for example (this is purely speculative about his actual mindset/decisionmaking): he could probably win a majority of the weekly cups on EU/NA"
FindingPride
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1001 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 18:39:29
September 12 2010 18:35 GMT
#272
On September 13 2010 02:41 cmos543 wrote:
TBH the vast majority of games are easy. I played Dragon age origins first run through on the highest difficulty without dieing but a few times. Name me a game that isn't easy.

ye i believe you.
and i also invented the chair.
Superdog
Profile Joined September 2010
10 Posts
September 12 2010 18:39 GMT
#273
Spending levels collecting artifacts just felt too much like a video game plot.
cmos543
Profile Joined October 2008
220 Posts
September 12 2010 20:00 GMT
#274
On September 13 2010 03:35 FindingPride wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 02:41 cmos543 wrote:
TBH the vast majority of games are easy. I played Dragon age origins first run through on the highest difficulty without dieing but a few times. Name me a game that isn't easy.

ye i believe you.
and i also invented the chair.


I beat the entire campaign of awakenings dieing only once to the two dragons boss on the highest difficulty. I didn't even have but one member of my party down in the final boss fight, and I didn't even realize that it was the final boss fight so my party wasn't even optimized. This was after creating a new awakenings only character so its not like i was high leveled or anything maybe 28 on my main character. Name me a game thats not easy that I would actually play.
You shall not misuse your screen name by using anonymity to sin
cmos543
Profile Joined October 2008
220 Posts
September 12 2010 20:12 GMT
#275
In Fact Sc2 can be very difficult on brutal, just don't do research or upgrade your units if you are looking for a challenge. I dare any one of you to beat all in vs air units without upgraded gols, vikings, or the mind control tower. I doubt you can.
You shall not misuse your screen name by using anonymity to sin
escobari
Profile Joined July 2010
Finland192 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 20:16:13
September 12 2010 20:12 GMT
#276
I thought exactly same - or think the whole script was written by some 12y old kid. I mean first of all you cant be "broken" boozer and same time fly around galaxy fighting shit and caring about shit. Second, is this "arnold action hero" type charcarter only thing they could come up? And the ending was just absolutely horrible horrible, just a cliche and cheesy too. Realism about same level as raynor growing wings and flying to the moon.

Oh and they didn't even get the fox news parody right. (where they all would just admire the premier)
Madkipz
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Norway1643 Posts
September 12 2010 20:13 GMT
#277
On September 13 2010 02:41 cmos543 wrote:
TBH the vast majority of games are easy. I played Dragon age origins first run through on the highest difficulty without dieing but a few times. Name me a game that isn't easy.



Why would we name a game that is not easy? What is this a response towards? a games difficulty is vastly dependant on how people approach it and on what difficulty settings. I for instance played dragon age origins and awakening on NORMAL difficulty. Not because i wanted a hard game to beat but because i wanted to enjoy the story they intended to tell at a leisurely pace.

"Mudkip"
cmos543
Profile Joined October 2008
220 Posts
September 12 2010 20:52 GMT
#278
On September 13 2010 05:13 Madkipz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2010 02:41 cmos543 wrote:
TBH the vast majority of games are easy. I played Dragon age origins first run through on the highest difficulty without dieing but a few times. Name me a game that isn't easy.



Why would we name a game that is not easy? What is this a response towards? a games difficulty is vastly dependant on how people approach it and on what difficulty settings. I for instance played dragon age origins and awakening on NORMAL difficulty. Not because i wanted a hard game to beat but because i wanted to enjoy the story they intended to tell at a leisurely pace.



Directed towards posts at the beginning of the thread saying game was to easy. Dragon age is so easy even on the hardest difficulty, that was my point. If they are saying game is easy, what games are they comparing it to?
You shall not misuse your screen name by using anonymity to sin
Hier
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
2391 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 21:34:09
September 12 2010 20:58 GMT
#279
On September 10 2010 08:42 lardlord wrote:
You guys cant tell me that you didnt shed a few tears when Zasz was slain. :'( ... i can't go on. I'm sorry. i have to go.


Nobody else found this to be humorous? It's OK, Kerrigan visits Zasz's grave every once in a while.

Edit:
More to the topic. As most people would agree, the story was, in fact, garbage.

There was no room for any prophecy. A ridiculously lazy plot device. It makes things happen because they have to happen according to some prophecy. Reasoning behind character actions become non existent.

The artifact should not have existed. Another lazy plot device. We already had several artifact based sub-plots in SC/BW, except SC/BW did not hinge its ENTIRE plot on an artifact that can destroy everything.

The villains were as boring as they get. Mengsk is disliked by the Dominion citizens because... I don't know, he raised the taxes too high, or something. So clearly he is a bad guy, that doesn't actually do anything. Oh, he sent Tychus to chill with Jim (a bunch of rebells without much of a military force) because he supposedly would have a better chance to assassinate Kerrigan that way. Mind you Mengsk had no idea about the artifact, or of the fact that his son would take half of his fleet for a spin with Jim. Absolutely brilliant plan. Kerrigan, meanwhile, attacks stuff. For no reason... oh wait, to find the artifact so it would not be used against her. It's like 3 year olds fighting over a toy. A toy, the existence of which was found out at the same time by everybody. That's it. Also, there's another bad guy that wants to destroy the universe. Because that's evil. Oh, and Overmind is a good guy, apparently. What a plot twist!!! Somebody on TL has already switched the names of SC2 characters with War3 characters, and ended up with War3 plot.

Useless subplots. Why introduce subplots, the elements of which are never going to recur ever again? Pointless.

Terrible script/dialog. This has been covered many times. The characters are puppets that are told to read the script.

An infinite amount of cliches, and overall stupid stuff. Kerrigan gets caught on camera among billions of zerg, among dozens of planets? Wait, isn't she on Char? Why are the reporters referring to her as the Queen of Blades? What, is she frequently on the cover of a celebrity magazine? Why does Matt have to order the hyper jump (from an atmosphere, even in the world of sci-fi that's ridiculous) of his ship at a specific time? Not like he waits for something specific, just looking at his watch. Nit-picking, but just dumb moments like that. The marine intro was never meant to be part of the story, they just decided to reuse the cinematic and create a bad subplot around it.

Garbage. Take an English student for a summer job, pay him minimum wage, get a script that's worth hundreds of times more. Go online, hold a contest to write some fan-fic. Give the winner $100, get a script worth hundreds of times more.
"But on a more serious note..." -everyone on this forum at some point.
ironchef
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Canada1350 Posts
September 12 2010 22:50 GMT
#280
I definitely have that feeling too. The feel and execution was very disappointing compared to the predecessors. I came out of this really not caring about any of the characters, including the main ones. And thats with me trying really hard to like it , being an sc fanatic. I can imagine someone casually checking starcraft out probably would forget most of the characters names or just stop halfway through.

I could be biased though, since I was younger when sc1 came out,so maybe I was less picky. Side characters like Aldaris, Edmund duke etc were so much more memorable. Simple characters but effective. Hell Kerrigan was originally to be a sidecharacter but they made her interesting enough they had to write her in more prominently. (and then recycled it for Arthas and Sylvannas. jk, jk teasing the wc'ers :D).

+ Show Spoiler +
unrelated: Speaking of duke and Kerrigan, anyone remember that "sex with kerrigan map" lol. It like drew a naked chick with pylons and played the Duke x Kerrigan sound clip with timed pylon explosions LOL. SEE IT INSPIRES

“Because your own strength is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man; but if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass also.” - Marcus Aurelius
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
September 20 2010 21:13 GMT
#281
The missions are cool in itself. But the issue is the story-telling.

There are very few surprises during the missions and everything is kinda spoiled just before it starts. I would have loved something more on par with WC3 in this matter.
The other issue with the story telling is that most of the 26 missions are just sub quests with little to no influence on the main plot, and their individual plot is not really entertaining (just the Zeratul part was cool, but voodoo guy and hanson were kinda poor plots).

And that bothers me because i think the main plot was actually good (not fantastic because it reamined kinda simple), but in itself it was VERY short for a whole game. If we sum it up :

+ Show Spoiler +
Jim gets artifact, Jim is told Kerrigan will save the universe, Jim is told the artifact will save Kerrigna, Jim go to Char, Jim saves Kerrigan


It is very very short compared to the whole story of games like WC3 and Starcraft 1. Sure these had submissions too but somewhat less and overall a lot more was being told during the game.

As a matter of fact the last 3 missions of Sc2 WoL were really good in my opinion. The story was kinda linear (and you still had to chose between 2 missions), and it was good, good cinematics, the impression to actually work for something big. The feeling is good.
I wish they kinda forget about their massive sub-plots "choose your mission" feature, and just give us something more linear, with a better story and with a few choice here and there. They can keep the fun missions because this was really good for the genre.

I want more story told, and more epicness in it.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Flaunt
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
New Zealand784 Posts
September 20 2010 21:23 GMT
#282
I loved the upgrades, research and credit system, but the teh story was dull and boring.
What? You seek something? You wish to multiply yourself tenfold, a hundredfold? You seek followers? Seek zeros!
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