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I feel like SC2 story gets panned a lot more then it should because of Bioware.
i mean really, GOOD stories in games is crazy unusual. You know what games were coming out back when SC1 was out? DUKE NUKEM 3D. Yeah.
The story of SC2 is really just about the same quality as all of Blizzard's fare, it's just... it's been years, and while other companies have stepped up their storytelling game, Blizz hasn't.
Maybe they'll hire some good WRITERS instead of just BG starts with their obscene amounts of money next time.
Oh, and I did the campaign on Hard. I was going to do it on brutal afterward, but it keeps screwing me out of the achievements, so I just got tired of re-doing missions.
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After re-watching all of the SC1 dialogue and story recently, I feel pretty much the same way I did as before. The dialogue was great and the story was epic. If anything, the Brood War story wasn't as great as I remembered it, but was still very good. The whole nostalgia argument doesn't really fly for me. How anyone can say the SC2 dialogue was better is beyond me...
edit: and for all of the people saying all of Blizzard's storylines have been bad...really? I loved Diablo 2 and Starcraft, and I actually didn't think WC3 was that bad. I've played a lot of single player games and haven't met many that have surpassed these in terms of epic-ness, dialogue, and execution. What games far surpass them? I'm actually really curious.
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On September 08 2010 06:44 strongwind wrote:
After re-watching all of the SC1 dialogue and story recently, I feel pretty much the same way I did as before. The dialogue was great and the story was epic. If anything, the Brood War story wasn't as great as I remembered it, but was still very good. The whole nostalgia argument doesn't really fly for me. How anyone can say the SC2 dialogue was better is beyond me...
edit: and for all of the people saying all of Blizzard's storylines have been bad...really? I loved Diablo 2 and Starcraft, and I actually didn't think WC3 was that bad. I've played a lot of single player games and haven't met many that have surpassed these in terms of epic-ness, dialogue, and execution. What games far surpass them? I'm actually really curious.
Mass Effect, one and two, by miles and miles and miles.
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Admittedly, I didn't read this whole thread (it is twelve pages after all), but my main problem with the SC2 SP storyline was how the branching story lines didn't affect one another. It's a cool concept and it makes the campaign more fun, but unless you decide to skip some of the levels it doesn't have much effect. I think that any level you don't HAVE to beat to finish the game should have some benefit.
For example: After Media Blitz, the media turns against Mengsk. Until you play the next non-Matt Horner level. How about a long term effect? Dominion defections gives you extra Battlecruisers on the last level? Or just something in Story Mode? Kate Lockwell embeds aboard the Hyperion? Alternate news broadcasts? If you side with Dr. Hanson maybe you get an extra anti-zerg ability, if you side with the protoss you get to use a few Protoss units on another level? Side with Tosh and you get to control him as a hero on another level, same with Nova? Stuff like that.
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Campaign in my opinion is like - Kerrigan is the problem! Lets confront her! The end.
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In the "stupid dialogue" competition, for me the worst is when you're doing the protoss mission against the endless waves of zerg. You've got a large base and a huge army, all the important protoss heroes show up one by one and fight with you... the fight keeps going and going, but more and more zerg keep coming... eventually one hero falls in the fight... then another. The zerg just never stop coming until everything is lost. It's a really effective moment, it shows how seriously the zerg threat really is...
And then the Dark Voice quotes the A-Team while we inexplicably watch some random planet turn completely black within one second. "I love it when a plan comes together". RUINED EVERYTHING THAT THE MISSION BUILT UP TO.
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TIDINGS OF DOOOOOOOOOMM!!! ruined it from a dialogue perspective for me.
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Core developers that made SC:BW, Diablo 1-2 etc are not longer working for Blizzard.
Hell.... the lead designer of SC2 is the guy who made Red Alert 2...
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On September 08 2010 16:17 Chocobo wrote:
In the "stupid dialogue" competition, for me the worst is when you're doing the protoss mission against the endless waves of zerg. You've got a large base and a huge army, all the important protoss heroes show up one by one and fight with you... the fight keeps going and going, but more and more zerg keep coming... eventually one hero falls in the fight... then another. The zerg just never stop coming until everything is lost. It's a really effective moment, it shows how seriously the zerg threat really is...
And then the Dark Voice quotes the A-Team while we inexplicably watch some random planet turn completely black within one second. "I love it when a plan comes together". RUINED EVERYTHING THAT THE MISSION BUILT UP TO.
yeah that made no sense at all hahaha
But a lot of the dialogue really made me cringe. Raynor/Matt exchanging one-liners, everything Tal'darim, Mengsk, and Kerrigan.
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Diablo, Wc3 and Starcraft all share a basic element in a champion gone rouge (Arthas, Kerrigan & the hero from D1) anyone thought of this?
Anyways I like the storyline somewhat but overall I would have liked it to be more mystic and OMG for the characters involved. It's not dark enough for me I guess.
The missions are GREAT fun though and I love the upgrades etc
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The missions are good, the storyline is bland.
I don't know about the nostalgia arguments. I did my first run on SC and BW a few years back and especially the original campaign felt way smarter even then.
SC1 had minimalistic and focused storytelling. The characters had a picture and good voice acting and decent dialogue. You could fill the rest with your own imagination.
BW was a bit more cliched, but it had it's moments too.
Now in SC2 most of the stuff is explained directly, everything zooms up close and yet there's no extra detail to anything. It just kills viewer's imagination and offers nothing in return.
+ Show Spoiler [SC2 spoiler] +I also really dislike how everything turns into propechies and chosen's of the fate. SC1 had it's own mysticism with templars, dark energies and such, but it never stated that the whole thingy was more than a huge insterstellar collision between the 3 races and their interests. The whole chosen by the fate thingy makes character choises bland, there's hardly any proper personal motive in anything.
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im 15 and i sorta like the campagin makes u keeps guessin stff
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I like the lore but the campaign missions can't keep me entertained..
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I had the same feeling, couldn't care about the campaign anymore, think I'm about halfway, I remember the WC3 and Diablo 1/2 story feeling much more compelling, I pray Diablo 3 will not have these problems, Blizzard was always such a good immersive storyteller... :/
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On September 08 2010 17:42 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Diablo, Wc3 and Starcraft all share a basic element in a champion gone rouge (Arthas, Kerrigan & the hero from D1) anyone thought of this?
Anyways I like the storyline somewhat but overall I would have liked it to be more mystic and OMG for the characters involved. It's not dark enough for me I guess.
The missions are GREAT fun though and I love the upgrades etc
in TFT/Wc3/BW Evil wins in the end..(Scourge frees Ner'Zhul/Kerrigan Takes control of the Korpulu(sp?) sector/Diablo takes over the hero)
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In WC3 Good wins (Archimonde destroyed at the world tree)
It's true that that last xpack of Blizz RTSes tends to end with evil triumphing.
And I'm not sure where you get the idea that the people who used to work at Blizz during BW aren't there anymore. Rob Pardo is VP of Blizz, he just got promoted since the BW days. It's true some people left (Bill Roper comes to mind...) but most of them remain.
I dunno. I really think this storyline is right around where all of them are, you're just being nostalgic about it. You need the guy with the glasses to review Starcraft 1.
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On September 09 2010 07:34 Nephrahim wrote:
In WC3 Good wins (Archimonde destroyed at the world tree)
It's true that that last xpack of Blizz RTSes tends to end with evil triumphing.
And I'm not sure where you get the idea that the people who used to work at Blizz during BW aren't there anymore. Rob Pardo is VP of Blizz, he just got promoted since the BW days. It's true some people left (Bill Roper comes to mind...) but most of them remain.
I dunno. I really think this storyline is right around where all of them are, you're just being nostalgic about it. You need the guy with the glasses to review Starcraft 1.
He means that the same people are no longer developing the game..which is entirely true.
and it shows.
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We can't really judge the storyline as if it were complete at this point. That would be like judging the Starcraft 1 Storyline on the merrits of the Terran Campaign only.
If you recall, the Terran campaign in Starcraft 1 was as simple as ever. Aliens invading, our hero works to save the innocent, thus branding himself as a criminal in the eyes of the corrupt government. He teams up with a rebel group who winds up being no better than the government, so he finds himself outlawed again.
Simple, if not a little cliche.
When we moved on to the Zerg and Protoss campaigns, we really got the meat of the story and got a greater glimpse of what is at stake beyond our little narrow vision.
Again, we can't judge this story as if it were completed, it's only a third done at the moment,
I do defend the story, I think it's unfinished and has great potential, but nobody can deny the dialogue in Starcraft 1 is vastly better, particularly from the Protoss, particularly from Zeratul.
"You speak of knowledge, Judicator? You speak of experience? I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities... Unto my experience, Aldaris, all that you've built here on Aiur is but a fleeting dream. A dream from which your precious Conclave shall awaken, finding themselves drowned in a greater nightmare."
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On September 09 2010 08:28 RavenNevermore wrote:
Again, we can't judge this story as if it were completed, it's only a third done at the moment,
That argument is so weak.. people need to stop going back to it. We can judge SC2 on its own, because its a full game, shipped for $60, has a lot more missions (the fact the they're storyline filler is Blizzard's fault, not the users' ) and is its own title. If the SC1 shipped with only the 10 terran missions, then yes it would have been a terrible story, but it didn't. Both games had an introduction (first couple of missions), development, and a conclusion.
Did Tolkein expect people to not judge The Fellowship of the Ring on its own? What about each of the Star wars movies? it doesn't work like that. When all 3 chapters of SC2 are done, you can compare the trilogy to SC+BW, or any other complete arc, but they definitely should be judged on their own as well, and as it stands, SC2 WoL is a terrible story, and 90% meaningless filler.
Why didn't Kerrigan destroy the humans after BW ended? why turtle for 4 years? why is Raynor so much more emo than he was with BW where he pretty much got over the severe loss of Kerrigan? How did zerg go from being such a force in SC2 to being Terran's little bitches again? where did the Tal'darim (which were outcasts) get all the new tech like the Mothership, Voidray, etc?
Story starts, characters don't show any development over the past 4 years, and what personality they had in the past was forgotten. You merc out some missions for no real reason other than to make money, and then when you start ramping up to take down Mengsk, you all of a sudden decide to go deal with Kerrigan instead and drop everything else.
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Right before the release of SC2, I played (again) through all the missions of SC1 and BW. The campaigns were yet for another time quite entertaining but i'd like to point out something that IMO contributed to the cult status of the storytelling in the predecessors of WoL.
I will refer to the plot without spoilers because I think that anyone reading this thread should at least have finished the campaign. You cannot express an opinion on something without knowing it in its entirety. If you haven't played through the campaign, go do that instead of whining here. It will serve you better.
So, because of the technological level and game logistics of that time, the biggest part of the campaign of SC1 was left to your imagination. And of course there was an epic story, full of twists, which was not told from one single perspective but three. Seeing the demise of Kerrigan in the Terran campaign and then struggling as Zerg to insure her birth was by far one of the best moments for me in any game -and I've played quite a lot of them.
My point being that we have yet to see the other two parts of the SC2 saga. Sure, the dialog was toned down and it was far too explicit so that it can serve as an introduction to anyone who hasn't played SC as a young nerd. And yes, it is only after the Protoss missions that the plot thickens, only to live you with a lot of question marks. But overall the production values were far better than SC1. As for the simplicity of the dialogs I'd like to think that it serves its goal. Jim Raynor is no Adama. He is a hillbilly turned revolutionary symbol. This is how he should talk and behave. From SC1, Terran were presented as naive, compulsory and a little bit country ;-).
So I did enjoy the campaign and I can't wait for the sequels. Especially the Protoss one, where I believe all loose ends will be addressed and we will have the whole picture to judge.
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EPT
