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On August 18 2010 15:08 dukethegold wrote:
2. Continue to pump ONLY Colossus from two robo
5. Build three Stargates once you have the money. As soon as you have access to void rays, pump void rays from the three stargates. Don't forget to keep your Phoenix count around 8.
Minor disagreements here, I feel.
2. Immortals do a little better versus hybrids, but also importantly, gas is limited - it can be better to get 2 immortals out than 1 colossus in a lot of circumstances (ie: busy pumping VRs as well). I prioritize colossi but I don't think they're the only thing you should make at all.
5. You get 2 stargates (and a Beacon) when Urun arrives, so you don't really need to make any more (1 at most, perhaps). I found 2 stargates more than enough to rapidly make a ton of air, because you do need gas for your robo units as well, and the sheer amount of time you have to make units lets you max out easily.
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So here's some advice that I think would have made it easier for me my first time:
1) Initially, you want to get a robo bay, dark shrine, and upgrades going ASAP. Queue up probes, and make zealots with any spare minerals. There will be zergling heavy waves initially, so replenishing zealots is a pretty good way to deflect the waves without losing many units. Also try to get up to 5 gateways and 4 robotics facilities total when you have the money.
2) Once your dark shrine comes up, it's pretty handy to put some dark temps on the bridges to block the waves coming in. Especially useful cause they block hybrids. Don't go too overboard though, you want to be spending most of your gas on getting colossi and upgrades and voidrays when you get them. Also replenishing phoenix numbers is a good idea, and remember to lift all hybrids you see. Remember to keep making zeals with spare minerals, and stalkers are super useful too.
3) After you have a good number of colossi (I think I had maybe 10?), you want to mostly switch to making immortals, since they're really good against hybrids. I think what got me through the mission was the mentality that i need to make zeal/stalker to protect my colossus/immortal from the waves while defending the temple for the last few minutes. Keep adding to immortals and voidrays and keep replenishing colossi and gateway units, especially zealots.
4) I think with about 1 minute or 1:30 to go on the temple time you can retreat up to your high ground. Make sure you have a 200/200 army and are still upgrading, then spend any extra minerals on cannons. On all my failed attempts (2000-2400 kills) I went really overboard on the cannons and neglected making gateway units. Try to keep your army 200/200 as your main goal and replenish cannons as the waves hit you. I hope this works for you. Worked for me, 3200+ kills and the bonus objective. Good luck!
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I read someone say Mass Carriers with 3/3 upgrades. Ill try that first for sure :D
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On August 20 2010 03:26 growl wrote:
So here's some advice that I think would have made it easier for me my first time:
1) Initially, you want to get a robo bay, dark shrine, and upgrades going ASAP. Queue up probes, and make zealots with any spare minerals. There will be zergling heavy waves initially, so replenishing zealots is a pretty good way to deflect the waves without losing many units. Also try to get up to 5 gateways and 4 robotics facilities total when you have the money.
2) Once your dark shrine comes up, it's pretty handy to put some dark temps on the bridges to block the waves coming in. Especially useful cause they block hybrids. Don't go too overboard though, you want to be spending most of your gas on getting colossi and upgrades and voidrays when you get them. Also replenishing phoenix numbers is a good idea, and remember to lift all hybrids you see. Remember to keep making zeals with spare minerals, and stalkers are super useful too.
3) After you have a good number of colossi (I think I had maybe 10?), you want to mostly switch to making immortals, since they're really good against hybrids. I think what got me through the mission was the mentality that i need to make zeal/stalker to protect my colossus/immortal from the waves while defending the temple for the last few minutes. Keep adding to immortals and voidrays and keep replenishing colossi and gateway units, especially zealots.
4) I think with about 1 minute or 1:30 to go on the temple time you can retreat up to your high ground. Make sure you have a 200/200 army and are still upgrading, then spend any extra minerals on cannons. On all my failed attempts (2000-2400 kills) I went really overboard on the cannons and neglected making gateway units. Try to keep your army 200/200 as your main goal and replenish cannons as the waves hit you. I hope this works for you. Worked for me, 3200+ kills and the bonus objective. Good luck!
This is perfect. Immortal/Colossi is the easier way. Immortals evaporate hybrids/ultras, and colossi get the rest of ground units. Just make sure to make a few phoenixes and a few void rays for air (in addition to what you get. It helps)
Also
+ Show Spoiler + Heirarch Artanis?!? Fuck ya!
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Reading the responses I feel like this might not help for a lot of people but any high quality Protoss player can do this easily.
I got to 3500+ kills (I think it caps at 3500 because my kill counter stopped at 3500) by using a standard 200/200 Protoss ground army composition with zealots, stalkers, sentries, immortals, colossi, and high templars with a control group 10 or so phoenix just for broodlords.
Did not bother walling in or rebuilding any cannons. I also took the gold expansion extremely early and defended it until it was mined out. Before my base was overwhelmed I was sitting on 20 gateways, 8 stargates, and 6 robo facilities with full upgrades. Slowly transitioned into a 200/200 carrier and voidray army around the time Artanis spawns.
At the end I gave up my ground forces (except Zeratul, who kept hacking away while my air army warded off overseers) and base and just continued killing with my carriers and voidrays. Artanis has a ridiculous amount of mana so you can use vortex to great effect to prevent yourself from getting overwhelmed. The final wave where I died I think was not designed to be beatable as it consists of something like 50 hybrids, 75 mutas, and 75 hydras.
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Initially get colossi. When hybrids come, mix in some immortals. Replenish pheonixes when they die. Gravitate hybrids with them. When about 30 seconds is left of the research thing in the center being done, retreat to your high ground. Nydus attack is coming.
Get atk ground/air ups first followed by armor. I funneled the 3 chokes to even smaller chokes with pylons. Replenish cannons when needed, only on the high ground. With excess minerals build pylons, cannons, or warp in zeals. With excess gas, warp in templar to storm or change to archons.
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what is anyone talking about when they say no detectors come? On brutal I have to move my OBS so they don't get merked, on the run I went to ~3,300 kills on brutal I didn't make a single DT/HT/Archon. And Zeratul died around 600.
I didn't read every single thread, but all the ones I did read suggested colo and either VRs or DTs.
Colos are great, get a lot initially.
Get about 5 more probes on each nexus for minerals.
WEAPON UPGRADES, get them. When colo's kill lings in one swipe, you're sitting pretty.
VRs do about the dmg of a marine until the get that charged beam, against mostly lings, that charged beam isn't doing much anyways.
Don't mass phoenix, but if you lose them replace them. The graviton beam is the best way to keep the ranged hybrids from face melting.
lastly, most important part, MASS STALKERS. The thing about zealots, DTs, and archons is they all move up as the attack to get to the target. A few zealots and archons on hold position EARLY is ok, but ultimately, they will die, and if you blink a lot, you won't die as much.
I built cannons around the main base when I was maxed to prepare for when the first 3 chokes fall when you get the archive research. that last attack before you abandon the triple chokes is huge, and if you are close to 200 after that you'll probably hit 3250 easy.
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i did manage to beat the level on my first real try (well to be honest it was my second one, on my first try i split up all my army in 3 groups to defend all 3 entrances at the same time since i thought it would be a triple attack each time, not a single one. So yes, i lost after not even 10 minutes in the game).
I have never build any new production facility (except gateways to wall off) and finished with a final score of 3506 on brutal (could have been a bit more, i just got lazy and sit back and enjoyed the fireworks ^^), weird enough Zeratul survived until like 2500 or 3k or so.
Here is what i did:
Start with producing probes. One of the initial probes builds a forge, a robo bay and a cybernetics core. Start researching attack for ground units and as soon as possible shields with your second forge. You don't need to start researching for air right away since there is no shield upgrades for air (although getting early dmg might help).
Until the robo bay (i think this is how its called but not sure right now) finishes and makes you capable of producing colossi get one immortal out of each of your robo facilities. This is not necessary right away (since mostly non-armored units will attack at the first waves) but i thought it is better to produce units i need later on than just to sit and wait until i can produce colossi.
Send your initial building probe to each of the 3 entrances and wall them off with gateways (and if there is still a zergling gap cannons as well. It is funny when zerglings attack and they all go for your cannon but due to placement only one zergling really attacks). Use 2 at each side and for the northern one just get one in between the cannons. As soon as the cannons go down wall off the north for a total of 3 gateways.
Hint: I hotkeyed my hero probe with the hotkey "3", where 1 and 2 were ground and air forces and 4/5 were robo facilities and stargates. This way i could really fast rebuild if a gateway should go down.
Continue to build probes for the first like 5-8 minutes until you feel you have more than enough.
Use your full starting army in one group to defend, all air units should be in a second control group to quickly take care of some brood lords/mutas.
Hint: If you lack micro (as i do) just morph your initial High Templars into an archon. The archon is pretty good to soak up some damage as he completely heals after each wave and he does fairly well vs zerglings.
I didn't even once use the phoenix ability to lift off any unit since i really had only few air units and my ground army could not shoot air, so don't worry too much about it.
As long as you walled off your chokes in time you should not be forced to engage the first waves in melee, therefore your zealots/stalker last that much longer to take away crucial blows later on.
Never stop producing at your robo facilities (this is why i hotkeyed them to 4). Of course you might get more than your initial ones but i found 2 to be exactly enough if they produce every second in that game until you get carriers. Just get nearly maxed with just immortals/colossi and as long as you wall off after each wave you should not have to worry about melee hybrid enemies. Use your airforce only to engage airforce (well if you have more void rays/carriers then of course use them to help your army but until you get carriers better take care of brood lords/muta). I have build a few void rays (like 4-6) but that wasn't really important. Just wall in and kill from distance, your 12-15 colossi and about 10 immortals should do the work easily.
When you start piling up some minerals build cannons in your base up the ramp on each side (not the middle of your plateau! This is where you retreat your army to as soon as the archieves fall so your army just stands in the middle and can shoot on both ramps).
I got about 20 cannons each left and right (also this helps vs nydus worms), the cannons help later on really to take blows and deal some extra damage (just replenish them after each wave, you might also think about getting some gateways to block).
The mothership is just bonus, it didn't really make a difference in my game. Just sit in the middle on high ground and smash everything below you. Since there is not that much space on the cliff i didn't rebuild robo units as soon as i got carriers and was building only carriers/few void rays.
Of course it was also really important to get the upgrades early in the game.
The wall in with your ranged units and your air force taking care of enemy air force hardly makes you lose even more than 1 unit each wave (after your fragile stalker/zealots have gone to a better world)
What i noticed was that there is a chance to get a higher score. I lost some colossi/immortals early on, lost like 20-25 supply worth of robo units when the archive finished and i had a total amount of like 40-60 probes at the end sitting in my base just wasting psy. Also i didn't get the gold expo (due to my bad micro/macro/game sense i didn't think i could pull it off). Therefore i was always for the entire game on about 800/300 ressources. So with more ressources (and a lot more cannons with that extra cash from the gold mine) it should be possible to get to like 3700+ kills in this scenario. But i think 3506 is also okay for me being a noob and my first try.
Sorry i wrote that much, i thought my strategy was pretty simple, so here is a short summary:
wall off with gateways, build only robo units (and later on carriers) and build a lot of cannons on the high ground to fall back to when the archieve is done.
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Sydney2287 Posts
On August 21 2010 18:50 han. wrote:
Reading the responses I feel like this might not help for a lot of people but any high quality Protoss player can do this easily.
I got to 3500+ kills (I think it caps at 3500 because my kill counter stopped at 3500) by using a standard 200/200 Protoss ground army composition with zealots, stalkers, sentries, immortals, colossi, and high templars with a control group 10 or so phoenix just for broodlords.
Did not bother walling in or rebuilding any cannons. I also took the gold expansion extremely early and defended it until it was mined out. Before my base was overwhelmed I was sitting on 20 gateways, 8 stargates, and 6 robo facilities with full upgrades. Slowly transitioned into a 200/200 carrier and voidray army around the time Artanis spawns.
At the end I gave up my ground forces (except Zeratul, who kept hacking away while my air army warded off overseers) and base and just continued killing with my carriers and voidrays. Artanis has a ridiculous amount of mana so you can use vortex to great effect to prevent yourself from getting overwhelmed. The final wave where I died I think was not designed to be beatable as it consists of something like 50 hybrids, 75 mutas, and 75 hydras.
I'm pretty sure sentries aren't an option to build in this level.
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To anyone who has successfully exploited the gold expansion: how did you defend it? I mistakenly played on casual (great practice for quickly getting the right units out and cannons up, at least) and the second Zerg wave (right at the beginning) went straight for it and overwhelmed it. This was on casual, so I assume it's worse on brutal. If all the attacks from the northwest are going for the expansion I don't see how it's worth it. Is it just luck?
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The hybrids hit wayy to hard so you have to use immortals and pheonix's to pick em up. I guess I got lucky on this level beat it on my first try :D
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did thing long time ago on brutal so i don't know the exact unit combinations but the key parts were:
block entrances with DT lining up (until they sent in detectors), colossi in the back punishing.
while the entraces were blocked off, i had a group of zealots, stalker, pheonix, colossi, immortal running around the map depending on where they attack.
made cannons everywhere as money was following in faster than i can spend.
grab the expansion, wall with gateways and cannons in the back and defend it with the army that's always running around.
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On August 24 2010 04:15 DarthMarth wrote:
To anyone who has successfully exploited the gold expansion: how did you defend it? I mistakenly played on casual (great practice for quickly getting the right units out and cannons up, at least) and the second Zerg wave (right at the beginning) went straight for it and overwhelmed it. This was on casual, so I assume it's worse on brutal. If all the attacks from the northwest are going for the expansion I don't see how it's worth it. Is it just luck?
I did the gold expansion on Normal and completely mined it out. I didn't take it until AFTER I got void rays. Once I had void rays I sent about 5 probes up there with about 5 void rays and 7 or 8 DTs. I first built a pylon up near the top vespene gyser and when it was done I built about 8 cannons around it. Once all those were done I put the nexus down. 5 void rays, 7 DTs, and all those cannons were plenty to defend it. As I started mining it I put some more cannons around the bottom, but start at the top. The enemies won't notice cannons at the top, but they will notice cannons at the bottom, as well as a nexus. So make sure you safely get your defense up first.
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okay, is it even possible to defend the archive on brutal?
I throw down 2x forge + 1 core as soon as start and pump probes. But as soon as they come in streams rather than waves, my robo army becomes too slow to defend at the choke. Then mass carriers carried me to 2.5ish, but I had no buildings. so yea..... Should I just abandon archive on brutal and redo it on hard?
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On August 25 2010 02:15 me_viet wrote:
okay, is it even possible to defend the archive on brutal?
I throw down 2x forge + 1 core as soon as start and pump probes. But as soon as they come in streams rather than waves, my robo army becomes too slow to defend at the choke. Then mass carriers carried me to 2.5ish, but I had no buildings. so yea..... Should I just abandon archive on brutal and redo it on hard?
no.. separate your army in to 3 groups? its what i did lol
then just 1a2a3a at the choke being attacked.. then by the time they start attacking from all directions you can just go on to high ground
worked for me at least.
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On August 25 2010 02:37 Mobius wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2010 02:15 me_viet wrote:
okay, is it even possible to defend the archive on brutal?
I throw down 2x forge + 1 core as soon as start and pump probes. But as soon as they come in streams rather than waves, my robo army becomes too slow to defend at the choke. Then mass carriers carried me to 2.5ish, but I had no buildings. so yea..... Should I just abandon archive on brutal and redo it on hard? no.. separate your army in to 3 groups? its what i did lol then just 1a2a3a at the choke being attacked.. then by the time they start attacking from all directions you can just go on to high ground worked for me at least.
never mind, i just did it lol. on brutal and everything, defended archive with 3485 kills =] Fark, i evened mined out my min line lol
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DT wall with massive air support hotkeyed. when an overseer shows his face, run QUICK to the appropriate DT line to take it out. this strat will get you near the kill limit. then, build a crap load of cannons near your base once the pace really picks up.you will have a ton of minerals. build carriers to support the carrier group that will proct after X amount of time.
i unlocked every achievement for that level without the gold expo using the strat i just mentioned. i'm curious how people got the gold expo on brutal.
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This mission wasn't even hard... I HATE playing with protoss, struggled with some of Zeratul's earlier missions, but on this got every achievement, mined out the entire map, killed everything on the map, and only finally died because I got tired of rebuilding cannons and warping in zealots and just sat back to see how long it'd take 'em to bust me. Think I ended with about 9k minerals. I stopped paying attention to the kill counter once it passed 3300, although I'm wanting to say I saw something that started with 37 at some point? Just mass colossus and phoenix out of 4 robo and 2-3 stargate, with cannon spam everywhere and about 15 warp gates to spam zealots. Add a few immortals later. Pretty easy stuff, really, as long as you have moderately decent macro and can micro phoenix.
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Hello,
Imho this mission is very easy on Hard only mass to 200/200 of everything and thats all, no need cannons and no need expo  dont know about brutal but it shouldnt be tough.
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at first this mission seemed ridiculously impossible on brutal, but then I basically stopped using gateway units after the 3rd wave or so in favour of 7-8 colossus and 10-12 immortals + mass air (~~24 void rays ~~8 carriers ~~7phoenix + heroes) and getting 3500 kills was no problem on brutal, just make sure you use graviton beam from phoenixes and you should be set (upgrades are a given)
However, when I did this mission there seemed to be a bug with the achievement server and I didn't get ANY of the achievements (I protected the archives too) so that made me rage a bit, luckily I have a save file from just before my units died so I'll just load it again when blizz fixes their shit
gl
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EPT
