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I have played the first seven or so missions of the singleplayer (eu release) on brutal difficulty and am suprised how much my playstyle has to adapt to the missions. Sometimes a single wrong decision seems to be gamebreaking and I kinda have to keep up macrowise, way more then I expected.
In general I can say as soon as I know how a mission "functions" I clear it without bigger troubles but to be frankly it feels harder to pull off than against 60% of the betaopponents I had.
I just wanted to know how your experiences with the difficulty are. Am I supposed to feel challenged? Or are you tearing through the missions thinking: "Easy as pie!"?
Anyways, have fun with the beta guys!
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I've done ~22 missions on brutal, and i've got to say that the biggest difficulty is in figuring out the mission. Once that's done, it's usually a cakewalk.
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how do you use mercenaries, lol?
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the biggest tip i have so far is on the missons where theres only 1 base, dont build to many workers, there is no point in oversaturating if you are never going to maynard
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Australia7069 Posts
i've literally never used mercenaries. As far as i can tell they'd only be useful if you were bad at macro, or got heaps of pickups
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On July 27 2010 18:20 Kiante wrote: i've literally never used mercenaries. As far as i can tell they'd only be useful if you were bad at macro, or got heaps of pickups Actually the mercs are better than their standard unit type, so in missions where you're probably going to have to depend on a small group of units, mercs are good bang for their buck.
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Brutal was surprisingly difficult yeah. I'm trying to get all the bonus objectives and had to restart some levels several times (hardest so far was the "utter darkness" level where you have to kill 2500 zergs
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Don't forget upgrades on Brutal! They are extremely important.
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On July 27 2010 19:56 Tozar wrote: Don't forget upgrades on Brutal! They are extremely important.
Very true. I keep trying to tell my friends at the LAN to do it but they forget T_T
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Playing on Brutal was a pretty pleasant gaming experiene for me.
Wasn't planning on playing on Brutal at the beginning but the Kerrigan avatar was just too sexy to pass, and what the hell, I can just get away with the campaign achievements anyways.
Hadn't played sc1, but would consider myself pretty veteran RTS player (ok not that important for single player but still) and was playing the Beta for a couple months, and got to say Brutal is pretty spot on difficulty for me, or anyone like me if he wants a challenging but far from impossible experience. I'll agree that the most important stuff is figuring the mission out (so if you tried the mission at lower difficulty, picking it up on brutal will be easier), but still like most missions can be beaten up in first try anyways, and you can also make use of the game's very nice auto-save feature to make up for nasty surprises.
Don't play too hardcore so haven't done that many missions, but how I do it is play the mission in Brutal up 1st, and also try to pick some of the normal-hard achievents for the mission as well, without going out of my way as much as to fail the mission trying to do it (many achievements you can do in insane as well, but some are outright impossible to do in brutal, and some other you can do one or the other, but kidna hard to pick up both in the same brutal mission (especially if you play it for the first time). Then I play it again on hard/nomal whatever needed to pick up the remaining achievemtens, looking just to be done with them asap so I can move on. If I fail hard I sometimes had to play same mission 3 times cause like I was careless in hard and lost a building (that was needed for the normal achievement) thus had to play it again on normal.
Be sure to select play again after game end, play thought the archive or to save progress after beating on brutal, load to pick up achievement fast if possible, and then load up again 1st game to go on normally, cause if you load a game to snipe an achievement and then move on then brutal won't be registered in the certain campaign game (obviously you will have the achievemnt towards the Kerrigan avatar, but jsut if you want to be a little more perfectionist).
Having played missions in all Brutal, hard and normal I got to say:
Brutal: Best playing experience easily if you like some challenge. Furthermore game on brutal has a much better feeling of the world. You really feel weak, endangered, and try to be on your toes. when you get zerged, you get ZERGED. You really feel like being in there fighting in a dangerous place. That's it if you actually enjoy single player, and a nice game world/atmospere. I reckon it would be even smoother for me if I didn't waste so much time trying to pick up normal/hard achievements by replaying missions and just played it. Maybe I'll skip other achievemtns and come back to do them later if I get too bored.
Hard: Still has a nice feeling, probably won't fail much but still goes nicely. Would be pretty nice mode to play if you like the lore and want to play the game but be done sooner cause you want to jump into multiplayer faster, or don't have time, or taking vacation ect.
Normal: Normal is outright BORING. it feels like sandbox mode with no suspense whatsoever and so little stuff going. If you only want to see the plot and the stuff fast, I'd rather use cheats tbh, unless you are someone with really limited RTS experience, I'd play it at least on hard.
What I'd like to ask others i how are the managing the order they play the mission. Do they like try to beat all one kind of a series in a row (like all colonial ect) or just jump from series to series. Myself I am doing the 1st approach but dunno if it really makes sense, or it even matter too much.
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Brutal all the way, the only way to get a fully immersed experience imo.
How did you find Welcome to the Jungle on Brutal? It's been the most challenging so far.
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I was watching a stream yesterday of the guy who had a SEA copy and he was having problems with 1v1 against AI. I think the game is just more challenging than BW was against AI's at least..
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The AI is definitely good at prioritising what units to attack. My Medics go splat if I don't keep a close eye on them, same with my SCVs when trying to quickly repair a Turret/Bunker.
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Brutal is great !! I barely make it out alive in every game.
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On July 27 2010 22:54 GreEny K wrote: I was watching a stream yesterday of the guy who had a SEA copy and he was having problems with 1v1 against AI. I think the game is just more challenging than BW was against AI's at least.. yea 12/13yrs can sure do a lot for the AI ^___^
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Brutal is, well, brutal, just like the name suggests. I'm doing "Welcome to the Jungle" now in brutal. I'm getting raped so so hard it's not funny. I tried so so many things and none of them worked. But I like the challenge. I like how every mission is doable, and the bonus objectives are doable too. I remember CnC3 on hardest difficulty - it wasn't scaled at all. The bonus objectives were undoable in the last few missions of the game :| which really put me off. Glad to see that here they are well chosen, even for us brutals ^^.
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not brutal, but I've only done 7 missions. I'm actually pretty disappointed at the lack of difficulty. For example, on the Great Train Robbery, the only difficulty is in finding all 6 diamondbacks, and not much else.
Oh well, I guess they can't expect everybody who buys the game to have played ICCup
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If you arnt on brutal why are you complaining that the game is not hard enough?
if you want it harder go to a harder difficulty
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On July 27 2010 23:54 Sunyveil wrote: not brutal, but I've only done 7 missions. I'm actually pretty disappointed at the lack of difficulty. For example, on the Great Train Robbery, the only difficulty is in finding all 6 diamondbacks, and not much else.
Oh well, I guess they can't expect everybody who buys the game to have played ICCup
Your not on brutal and moaning it isnt that hard?? Thats probably a sign to go on Brutal...
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Brutal makes things interesting. On the great train robbery those death squads, once they see you. Never. Ever. Stop following.
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On July 27 2010 23:54 Sunyveil wrote: not brutal, but I've only done 7 missions. I'm actually pretty disappointed at the lack of difficulty. For example, on the Great Train Robbery, the only difficulty is in finding all 6 diamondbacks, and not much else.
Oh well, I guess they can't expect everybody who buys the game to have played ICCup
Ha - I nearly lost my base on that map because I had my whole army out searching the map for one of the optional things (Zerg exoskeletons or something like that), and all of a sudden there was Siege Tanks and Goliaths and Marauders pouring into my base.
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On July 28 2010 00:08 Tommylew wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 23:54 Sunyveil wrote: not brutal, but I've only done 7 missions. I'm actually pretty disappointed at the lack of difficulty. For example, on the Great Train Robbery, the only difficulty is in finding all 6 diamondbacks, and not much else.
Oh well, I guess they can't expect everybody who buys the game to have played ICCup Your not on brutal and moaning it isnt that hard?? Thats probably a sign to go on Brutal... I'm pretty sure by "not brutal" he meant the difficulty of Brutal was not brutally hard.
People don't give other people's common sense enough credit...
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I am a little disappointed with brutal so far. I have just MMM'd my way to victory. But of course so far I really do not have access to any other units. Only up to Welcome to the Jungle, and it was the most challenging so far having to micro away from HTs and colossi.
My only real beef with the campaign is that when it says do <x> on hard difficulty for an achievement, it means doing it on hard. So if I do it on brutal, I do not get the achievement.
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On July 28 2010 00:41 Bair wrote: I am a little disappointed with brutal so far. I have just MMM'd my way to victory. But of course so far I really do not have access to any other units. Only up to Welcome to the Jungle, and it was the most challenging so far having to micro away from HTs and colossi.
My only real beef with the campaign is that when it says do <x> on hard difficulty for an achievement, it means doing it on hard. So if I do it on brutal, I do not get the achievement.
Not been the case for me. I've gotten my achievements for hard difficulty in brutal.
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wow, now i kind of want to play the campaign.
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On July 28 2010 00:41 Bair wrote: My only real beef with the campaign is that when it says do <x> on hard difficulty for an achievement, it means doing it on hard. So if I do it on brutal, I do not get the achievement.
that's not true if you complete it on brutal it counts aswell at least it have for me in all missions so far. I haven't gotten that far yet, but I think the difficulty is suitable I first tried it on hard, and it just felt meeeh, pretty sure it was on fast, while only brutal is on fastest ? I had some trouble tho getting one of the achievements in the third mission tho where you ain't allowed to lose any buildings etc had to restart a couple of times there
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Then I must have been missing minor things....hmm...well it will wait until after work.
However....
+ Show Spoiler +anyone else find that survive for twenty minutes mission early on a blast on brutal?
I mean, this is the first survival mission in an rts where I could not just build up a force and mop up the comp's base on. It had me struggling pretty hardcore.
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OMG the firebats are so bad ass in SC2... being able to play with medics & firebats really makes me wish they could of balanced it so they could have been included in the multiplayer.. can't wait to see goliaths.
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On July 27 2010 22:09 Ygz wrote: Brutal all the way, the only way to get a fully immersed experience imo.
How did you find Welcome to the Jungle on Brutal? It's been the most challenging so far.
It was pretty difficult at first, but then I realized that marine/medic is pretty much OP on that level. Not really necessary to utilize the goliaths -- I just left them in my base for defense.
The Great Train Robbery, on the other hand, is ruining me. When they start bringing out the bunker-lined tracks with speedy trains, marauder death squads, tanks, and HSM-equipped ravens, I just don't have an answer for it.
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not brutal, but I've only done 7 missions. I'm actually pretty disappointed at the lack of difficulty. For example, on the Great Train Robbery, the only difficulty is in finding all 6 diamondbacks, and not much else.
Oh well, I guess they can't expect everybody who buys the game to have played ICC
lol are you serious -_-/
Go play on brutal :/.
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Spoiler alert? Just in case... + Show Spoiler +Hardest missions so far are the ones in Zeratuls vision... the fourth one (the future without Kerrigan) was a bitch to beat. Kept getting about 1,900 kills after Artanis warps in and then I would die... And I'm playing on hard... guess my strategy of just making cannons and high templar to warp into archons later was a fail strat 
Oh and my favorite was the train mission with the diamondbacks. I didn't really like the lava level... lost a ton of SCV's and two Command Centers
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well, this thread just convinced me to go brutal. wasnt sure what difficulties there were, but im sold on going brutal. its brutal, hard, normal right?
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On July 28 2010 03:00 socal50 wrote: well, this thread just convinced me to go brutal. wasnt sure what difficulties there were, but im sold on going brutal. its brutal, hard, normal right? same here ^___^ it seems that without brutal the game is pointless ^___^ and since that seems to be the case...brutal it is, though i was probably already going to go brutal....cant wait til DL finishes
edit: OH 500 I A DRAGOON! +1 for my favorite idiotic unit in bw ^__^
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I can't believe how many people misinterpreted my statement that started with "not brutal", of course I'm playing on brutal difficulty and think that it's not brutally hard.
Sighhhh work is boring with no sc2
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The hellion mission on brutal is so much fun, although pretty damn hard (I'm assuming 3 fax hellion pump isn't the way to go, seeing as I almost always get overrun at ~night 3?)
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mmm seems to just destroy everything even on brutal, the medic heal is so crazy
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I found the train mission easy until they gave the trains speed upgrades. Then I found I had to have diamond backs. But using diamond backs makes it harder to kill everything else.
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On July 28 2010 03:30 shinosai wrote: I found the train mission easy until they gave the trains speed upgrades. Then I found I had to have diamond backs. But using diamond backs makes it harder to kill everything else.
I suicided all my shit running under the last train firing away while the DBs were at the front of the train killing off the last 300 HP lol
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On July 28 2010 02:11 Caznode wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 22:09 Ygz wrote: Brutal all the way, the only way to get a fully immersed experience imo.
How did you find Welcome to the Jungle on Brutal? It's been the most challenging so far. It was pretty difficult at first, but then I realized that marine/medic is pretty much OP on that level. Not really necessary to utilize the goliaths -- I just left them in my base for defense. The Great Train Robbery, on the other hand, is ruining me. When they start bringing out the bunker-lined tracks with speedy trains, marauder death squads, tanks, and HSM-equipped ravens, I just don't have an answer for it.
Exactly my experience, when I read that people were having trouble with Welcome to the Jungle I was confused since I beat it so fast that I didn't even have time to look for the 3rd protoss relic before my SCV got back to my base with the last terrazin.
I tried MMM on The Great Train Robbery and it just got decimated by HSM at like the 5th train, after that I just never recovered. Gonna try marauder/medic/diamondbacks and building bunkers on the train tracks to engage the escorts when I get back from work.
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I found the train mission easy. After losing to it 5 times because I tried to follow the game's advice to make diamondbacks, I figured I shouldn't even bother since the game lies all the time--marine medic wins everything after you hit the magical number of medics, and siege tanks are grossly overpowered since they do [140 [!]] damage a hit with siege mode if you use upgrade it.
So. I ended up fast expanding to the top left, building a PF to protect it, mined a boatload of minerals, then made a train station at the bottom where the two tracks intersected, filled it with siege tanks behind planetary fortresses behind missile turrets, and moved the siege tanks up with a small group of marine/medic whenever the train went the top path, leaving the PFs and missile turrets to hold out while I'm gone.
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Has anyone beat the Odin mission.. the one where tychus steals it and you have to cover him, on brutal? You can lose so fast on this mission and so broke from sending peons to repair.
Just need to do it with different tech I think.
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Just gotta focus any siegetanks or banshees down asap. Cloak is great for not getting you shit murdered fast as. Ghost/Spectre spam is the way to go, with merc siege tanks and turrets covering your base.
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hmm, sounds like you did this mission way later than me. No ghosts or siege tanks. I have them now, but since the mission was available before those units, I figured it was beatable.
Units I had available:
marine, marauder, firebat, medic viking, wraith hellion, vulture, diamondback merc marauder/marine
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I was also trying to beat this without ghosts or siege tanks on Brutal difficulty for couple of hours, eventually gave up... I believe timings might be bugged since he attacks at different intervals when you restart/load mission multiple times, also enemy positions and attack destination change...
For instance, it autosaved while Odin was fighting couple of vultures, but when I load, all these vultures simply skip him and go straight into my base and focus only my SCV's... rather annoying.
I also have to say that I'm disappointed with amount of "here are 6 SCV's and empty base for you, please build it up from scratch like you haven't done it millions of times already" missions...
I guess I'll pause with campaign for now since I really wanted to beat it only on brutal difficulty 
(C+ player, not a total retard xD)
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Wonder how you guys did the mission with the laser? I tried going heavy tanks one round, and M&M&M another. Both times I just got overwhelmed around 25%.
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Wonder how you guys did the mission with the laser? I tried going heavy tanks one round, and M&M&M another. Both times I just got overwhelmed around 25%.
I walled off with supply depots and a bunker, then powered tanks. On each ramp I had about 5-6 tanks each, some marines, marauders, and medics. Get two SCVs on each side patrolling so they repair everything super fast. Use the laser aggressively and focus on burning down Immortals > Colossi > Archons. Micro your tanks to target fire templar before they become a threat.
I think at 25% you will also want a lot of missile turrets up. Kill void rays first, your defenses should take care of ground stuff until you aren't being savaged to death by Protoss air.
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On July 28 2010 07:07 shinosai wrote: Wonder how you guys did the mission with the laser? I tried going heavy tanks one round, and M&M&M another. Both times I just got overwhelmed around 25%.
+ Show Spoiler + 2 bunkers in front with 4 scvs with auto-repair somewhere near them on both sides. Marines inside + 2 maras for slow on archons. Later, put 2 planetery fortresses down @ east to block your ramp + expand to another mineral field.
Put 4-5 tanks behind bunkers on both sides. Make MnM for Anti-Air + scouting the ruins for +protoss tech points. When you get to use the laser yourself on anything you want, immediately hotkey it to a free hotkey. Kill every immortal and colossus you see with the laser. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Fuck the archons and templars, they'll crash on the bunks. When the door drops below 1400 hp(or maybe it was 1900?), just keep killing the door. Don't try to kill the units any more, it's useless.
level done in approx 39~ mins. Two raxes constantly pumping mnm and 1 factory for sieges. I made 3 PFs.
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The only mission I feel like i genuinely am stuck on is the very last one, has anyone else managed to beat it yet?
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level done in approx 39~ mins. Two raxes constantly pumping mnm and 1 factory for sieges. I made 3 PFs.
Le sigh. I went for the flame turrets and they are terrible in comparison. I wanted to try out the "new" unit.
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Does the computer cheats ( income ) in brutal difficulty ?
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On July 28 2010 08:24 Boblion wrote: Does the computer cheats ( income ) in brutal difficulty ?
Absolutely no idea, and I don't think it matters if it does. Attacks tend to come as scripted events, rather than the AI just playing a 'build' like in practice vs AI. I think the key difference on Brutal would be that there's more in each wave/attack/defense/what have you, and that they have more upgrades.
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In brutal the AI is most definitely ahead in upgrades, usually at least 2, 1. I found the single player really really fun on brutal. I find the diamondbacks r the best unit by far for the mission that uses them (with some merc marines for aa). The fire whilst moving is ideal for the scenario.
Im not too sure about using mmm in this scenario. Its just too slow imo.
The campaign is awesome. Completed bout 7 missions on brutal so far. More tommorow.
What do peeps think about upgrades 4 brutal? Which ones are the most useful? This is so I can plan ahead a little. For a specific mission? The missile turrret upgrade makes the laser drilling level soo much easier.
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Full brutal completed in 18 hours of not constant playing but 18 hours of real time.
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I'm stuck on the Meinhoff mission right now (night/day one). My setup has been two (fortified) bunkers on each entrance, 4-5 SCVs hold positioned on auto-repair next to them, and two medics on each side to heal the SCVs through marine damage. My problem is, I'm running out of minerals. I make about 20 hellions, just enough to kill a depot in one hit, and then nothing but 12 firebats + 6 medics + a small number of marauders / marines to help deal with the bigger units. I'm left with about 2-3k to spare before I'm mined out, but this wears down ridiculously fast with the bunkers constantly taking damage...
Anyone have any tips? I've tried expanding to the top, they find and kill it within 2 waves 100% of the time (I haven't tried lifting the CC during night yet...). Do I need the extra bunker space? Bigger firebat radius? I've been getting marine upgrades so far and they've proven pretty useless for this mission. Any help appreciated.
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The only mission that has gotten me intro shit loads of trouble on brutal so far is "Supernova", I had to replay that shit 4 times until I got it right.
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I've completed about 13 missions on Brutal so far. "Utter Darkness" is a beating, I didn't even come close on my first attempt. Might have to drop down to hard to finish that one and come back to it later.
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Woohoo. Finally beat the laser drill mission. Moreso than massing siege tanks, it was more like massing scvs for repair and target firing those high templar right away. Major disadvantage that I didn't have a planetary fortress, because those fire turrets suck. But I did it the hard way. :D
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Utter darkness was hard as hell....then I remembered that walling the ramp might be a good idea -_-. Got to 2500 pretty easily with gateway walls at the 2 ramps but definitely the hardest mission so far.
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i started out on brutal but once all my friends who started normal had finished the game I wussed out.
I plan on going back through brutal though just cause I thought it was a really fun challenge, you had to actually use your brain and still barely survive.
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On July 28 2010 09:04 sev1 wrote: I'm stuck on the Meinhoff mission right now (night/day one). My setup has been two (fortified) bunkers on each entrance, 4-5 SCVs hold positioned on auto-repair next to them, and two medics on each side to heal the SCVs through marine damage. My problem is, I'm running out of minerals. I make about 20 hellions, just enough to kill a depot in one hit, and then nothing but 12 firebats + 6 medics + a small number of marauders / marines to help deal with the bigger units. I'm left with about 2-3k to spare before I'm mined out, but this wears down ridiculously fast with the bunkers constantly taking damage...
Anyone have any tips? I've tried expanding to the top, they find and kill it within 2 waves 100% of the time (I haven't tried lifting the CC during night yet...). Do I need the extra bunker space? Bigger firebat radius? I've been getting marine upgrades so far and they've proven pretty useless for this mission. Any help appreciated.
+ Show Spoiler +One of the easy missions if you don it right I didn;t bother with helions or even bunkers at all (actually I made 1 bunker at each side at the start cuz well he said so  ) You will never get hold of managing repairs well (and they cost too). I just massed marines, firebats and medics at around 2:1:1 Just keep your forces cohesive so firebats dont run away from medics. Firebats make the most damage but you dont need way too many just a healthy number (if you bought the upgrade for them before it certainly helps), they are bio so medics keep em alive and rest is marines to shoot big guys, straglers and help take down buildings faster. You can really afford to stim all the time. Just make 2 big chunks of bio balls and should be fine. Can also do the kill 15 buildings at night achievement. Helions are pretty fail. I know it's the theme of the mission but... The are mechanical so they slowly die even with extreme micro, wile you can attack move with you bioballs If you repair you have to keep SCV close and waste minerals, and those SCV are not working and prone to dieing They are pretty bad vs buildings anyways
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First three missions are quite easy. However getting all the achievements makes it harder. Bed time now 
l33t 5555 post :D
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On July 28 2010 09:04 sev1 wrote: I'm stuck on the Meinhoff mission right now (night/day one). My setup has been two (fortified) bunkers on each entrance, 4-5 SCVs hold positioned on auto-repair next to them, and two medics on each side to heal the SCVs through marine damage. My problem is, I'm running out of minerals. I make about 20 hellions, just enough to kill a depot in one hit, and then nothing but 12 firebats + 6 medics + a small number of marauders / marines to help deal with the bigger units. I'm left with about 2-3k to spare before I'm mined out, but this wears down ridiculously fast with the bunkers constantly taking damage...
+ Show Spoiler +Build Marines and Medics and make sure stim is reasearched.
Just build marines and medics. Wall off your chokes with depots and bunkers if you want, I did, I don't think it really helped. Just make sure to have lots of marines and medics. Keep stimming as much as you want (esp last 30 seconds of each night wave) When day breaks just run your guys out, stim and kill as much as you can, and run back in when there are 30 seconds left.
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the mission with the fire hunting u was brutal and one of the toss things where some mutant comes at u. other missions feel like its too easy.
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The Odin mission on brutal is... + Show Spoiler +BRUTAL. :O
15/29 missions complete on brutal now. I feel so pro. But seriously, ouch, I heard going ghosts/tanks is good for the odin mission but this jackass just dies so fast, and they always focus fire repairing scvs.
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Anyone else had problems getting the achievements from the 4th mission i think "The evacuation" I did it on brutal secured 5/5 and didn't lose any trucks, yet I didn't get any of the achievements.... ?
edit: nvm apparantly I had lost connection to the internet in the middle of the game and that was why I didn't get em
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I found "Devil's Playground" pretty hard, couple tries on brutal with no luck. Brutal is quite a fun difficulty, without the o shit I missed up 45 minutes down the drain feeling.
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Brutal is indeed uite fun, some mission gave me trouble ("Welcome to the Jungle") but overall its challenging as fun :p Right now I think I have 24 missions done, and I'm kinda stuck at "All in" <<
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"The Great Train Robbery" was the hardest for me so far
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I can't seem to get through "Supernova" (the wall of fire one) on Brutal. I can crush the first Protoss base with mostly Banshees but that just plays into their Templar/Archon defense at the next base, so I can't get to the artifact. Anyone have any tips?
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I used a few tanks with banshess for the first 1-2 bases, then after that switched to pure banshee/vikings
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Frustratingly enough, my ability seems to smack-dab in between hard and brutal. I find hard pretty dang easy, and brutal annoyingly hard. Take the train robbery level, for example. 4-5 failures on brutal, so then I tried it on hard. I ended up sitting at the food cap and a-moving everything. As much as it hurts my ego, I think I'm going to play the rest of them on hard to save myself a headache, and come back later for brutal.
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Anyone of any advice for Engine of Destruction of Brutal (one with the Odin). The push into the BC Yamatos just rape the Odin. I don't know what to do there.
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I completed the Odin mission on brutal by massing wraiths with marine/medic backup. Clear out siege tanks and BC's with your wraiths and make sure Odin tanks all the damage from the bases so your wraiths don't die. The medics will be able to heal the SCV's repairing Odin for long enough to make a difference.
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On July 28 2010 09:16 Kultcher wrote: I've completed about 13 missions on Brutal so far. "Utter Darkness" is a beating, I didn't even come close on my first attempt. Might have to drop down to hard to finish that one and come back to it later.
Utter darkness is actually a lot easier than it seems at first. + Show Spoiler [guide to beating In Utter Darkness on…] + First thing is don't panic. There are 3 entrances to your base. The enemy will come in waves 1 entrance at a time for a good part of the game. Start by queueing up more probes and putting down a 2nd forge + robotics bay so you can train colossi. Hotkey all your ground forces together, and hotkey all your air units together. Watch the observers closely. You'll see the enemy massing in front of them before attacking. Move your army to protect the cannons. Don't cross the bridges. Keep making colossi and keep up all the upgrades both air and ground. Non stop. Also, try to replenish your phoenix numbers if any die. I started to float on minerals around the 16th minute mark before the archives achievement, so I walled off the south-eastern bridge with lots of cannons. When the hybrids will start coming, lift them up with the phoenixes and focus fire. Do this on the ranged ones preferably, but later on use it on all the hybrids you encounter. Finishing the archives bonus mission should be a cake-walk at that point. I was floating on around 5K mins and 200/200 food army worth of colossi/phoenixes/voids. Once the archives submerge, retreat to the higher ground of your base and start to wall off with cannons too. If you start losing units, make colossi and void rays. No more phoenixes. At this point you should easily have 3-3-3 ground army and 3-0 air army. When I killed the 2500 necessary, I just kinda gave up after that. I didn't build anything any more. The enemy needed another 25 minutes to finally beat down my whole army :/. The corruptors and mass mutas come waaaay too late for the Z. Before that, the heroes+ void rays are unkillable.
In the end I defended for 49 mins and killed 3100 units.
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Here are a few thoughts on some things I found very useful during the campaign.
+ Show Spoiler +A good tip to keep SCVs alive when repairing (esp on brutal) is to have a medic nearby them healing them as they repair. They are worth their weight in gold and saves loads of SCVs. Also Maurauders with stim are useful at chokes in bunkers (esp. the drilling mission) with he concussive shell upgrade. They slow the first unit down, so the whole column slows whilst the seige tanks blast away and take em out
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On July 28 2010 18:00 UberThing wrote:Here are a few thoughts on some things I found very useful during the campaign. + Show Spoiler +A good tip to keep SCVs alive when repairing (esp on brutal) is to have a medic nearby them healing them as they repair. They are worth their weight in gold and saves loads of SCVs. Also Maurauders with stim are useful at chokes in bunkers (esp. the drilling mission) with he concussive shell upgrade. They slow the first unit down, so the whole column slows whilst the seige tanks blast away and take em out
Can maurauders even get stim?!?!
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I seem to be caught in a no-mans land at the moment LOL
"Hard" is, well, pretty easy for me. But "Brutal" is just that...I can't even get the first mission done on brutal
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Ugh, I'm stuck on Supernova right now. I don't see how its possible to get a ground army that's capable of doing anything. I've been trying to sneak banshees in to kill the vault, but no success as yet.
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On July 28 2010 20:50 samalie wrote:I seem to be caught in a no-mans land at the moment LOL "Hard" is, well, pretty easy for me. But "Brutal" is just that...I can't even get the first mission done on brutal 
Wait what, the first first mission?
Or like the first mission after Hyperion?
Ugh, I'm stuck on Supernova right now. I don't see how its possible to get a ground army that's capable of doing anything. I've been trying to sneak banshees in to kill the vault, but no success as yet.
After a while of faceplanting when I tried to be tricky on that, I went to the tried and true fallback of marine/marauder/medic. 1 or 2 reactored rax, 1 lab rax, 1 lab starport, and I pumped basically marine/marine/medic/marauder/banshee every cycle.
I ended up barely managing the last push, but I pushed a bit earlier than I needed to as well.
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I'm working on fully completing the game on Brutal (Currently 11 missions done), but I'm going down to Hard for some of the achievements because some of them just seem dang impossible to complete on Brutal.
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On July 28 2010 21:09 Jyvblamo wrote: Ugh, I'm stuck on Supernova right now. I don't see how its possible to get a ground army that's capable of doing anything. I've been trying to sneak banshees in to kill the vault, but no success as yet.
My trick was to just use 2 tanks, vikings, a dropship and banshees, I would fight the most northern base using siege tanks(+ sight from banshees) and then sneak into the top ravine just above the relic, then abused scan and vikings to get rid of pylons/cannons then just cloaked banshees and attacked the relic to death. I didn't even bother fighting through 2 of the bases.
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On July 28 2010 20:50 samalie wrote:I seem to be caught in a no-mans land at the moment LOL "Hard" is, well, pretty easy for me. But "Brutal" is just that...I can't even get the first mission done on brutal 
Good to hear I'm not alone in this situation, lol. I can sympathize. They should add a "very hard" between hard and brutal!
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On July 28 2010 19:56 sikyon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 18:00 UberThing wrote:Here are a few thoughts on some things I found very useful during the campaign. + Show Spoiler +A good tip to keep SCVs alive when repairing (esp on brutal) is to have a medic nearby them healing them as they repair. They are worth their weight in gold and saves loads of SCVs. Also Maurauders with stim are useful at chokes in bunkers (esp. the drilling mission) with he concussive shell upgrade. They slow the first unit down, so the whole column slows whilst the seige tanks blast away and take em out Can maurauders even get stim?!?!
No they have extra HP and Concussive Shells afaik.
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On July 28 2010 21:17 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 20:50 samalie wrote:I seem to be caught in a no-mans land at the moment LOL "Hard" is, well, pretty easy for me. But "Brutal" is just that...I can't even get the first mission done on brutal  Wait what, the first first mission? Or like the first mission after Hyperion?
I mean the first FIRST mission...where you start with Raynor & 5 or 6 marines.
+ Show Spoiler +I lose a minimum of one marine, insta-gibbed on the first static encampment, and usually enough that I lose the second marine on the next encounter (if I'm lucky I can hold that one death until the second real group, NOT the large scripted re-enforcement event where it autosaves). Best I've ever come out of the reinforcement event is Raynor + 6. By the time I kill the 4 guarding the one holo-billboard, and the 7 + the vehicle at the people, I've never had anything but Raynor still alive. The people will get me through to the 3 vikings, but by then I'm out of people, Raynor almost dead, and gg.
I am a-moving, and I try to exploit the 1 extra range of Raynor. I guess I need to build some almost "fortified" positions & use Raynor to lead them into the traps or something.
I move to hard - and its a complete cakewalk (of course) - I think I had Raynor + 10 alive at the end LOL.
BTW - I am not looking for help on this...I WILL eventually get better (Beta I was a high Silver/low Gold player, so I know I've got a lot of learning still to do)
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On July 28 2010 21:17 kzn wrote:Show nested quote +Ugh, I'm stuck on Supernova right now. I don't see how its possible to get a ground army that's capable of doing anything. I've been trying to sneak banshees in to kill the vault, but no success as yet. After a while of faceplanting when I tried to be tricky on that, I went to the tried and true fallback of marine/marauder/medic. 1 or 2 reactored rax, 1 lab rax, 1 lab starport, and I pumped basically marine/marine/medic/marauder/banshee every cycle. I ended up barely managing the last push, but I pushed a bit earlier than I needed to as well. I finally beat the mission, I smooshed my army into the bottom corner and waited until the fire killed all of the protoss, then ran in and sniped the objective. =P
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On July 29 2010 00:56 samalie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 21:17 kzn wrote:On July 28 2010 20:50 samalie wrote:I seem to be caught in a no-mans land at the moment LOL "Hard" is, well, pretty easy for me. But "Brutal" is just that...I can't even get the first mission done on brutal  Wait what, the first first mission? Or like the first mission after Hyperion? I mean the first FIRST mission...where you start with Raynor & 5 or 6 marines. + Show Spoiler +I lose a minimum of one marine, insta-gibbed on the first static encampment, and usually enough that I lose the second marine on the next encounter (if I'm lucky I can hold that one death until the second real group, NOT the large scripted re-enforcement event where it autosaves). Best I've ever come out of the reinforcement event is Raynor + 6. By the time I kill the 4 guarding the one holo-billboard, and the 7 + the vehicle at the people, I've never had anything but Raynor still alive. The people will get me through to the 3 vikings, but by then I'm out of people, Raynor almost dead, and gg.
I am a-moving, and I try to exploit the 1 extra range of Raynor. I guess I need to build some almost "fortified" positions & use Raynor to lead them into the traps or something.
I move to hard - and its a complete cakewalk (of course) - I think I had Raynor + 10 alive at the end LOL.
BTW - I am not looking for help on this...I WILL eventually get better (Beta I was a high Silver/low Gold player, so I know I've got a lot of learning still to do)
Heres how to do it. When battling marines make sure to target fire, micro away marines that are being hurt so they dont die. Then when the reinforcements come, you have to run in at a good timing so a large amount are saved, it helps if you kill off the right side and run the hurt marines back. Then you should be able to beat the last part as long as you keep the civilians in front of you.
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On July 29 2010 00:56 samalie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 21:17 kzn wrote:On July 28 2010 20:50 samalie wrote:I seem to be caught in a no-mans land at the moment LOL "Hard" is, well, pretty easy for me. But "Brutal" is just that...I can't even get the first mission done on brutal  Wait what, the first first mission? Or like the first mission after Hyperion? I mean the first FIRST mission...where you start with Raynor & 5 or 6 marines. + Show Spoiler +I lose a minimum of one marine, insta-gibbed on the first static encampment, and usually enough that I lose the second marine on the next encounter (if I'm lucky I can hold that one death until the second real group, NOT the large scripted re-enforcement event where it autosaves). Best I've ever come out of the reinforcement event is Raynor + 6. By the time I kill the 4 guarding the one holo-billboard, and the 7 + the vehicle at the people, I've never had anything but Raynor still alive. The people will get me through to the 3 vikings, but by then I'm out of people, Raynor almost dead, and gg.
I am a-moving, and I try to exploit the 1 extra range of Raynor. I guess I need to build some almost "fortified" positions & use Raynor to lead them into the traps or something.
I move to hard - and its a complete cakewalk (of course) - I think I had Raynor + 10 alive at the end LOL.
BTW - I am not looking for help on this...I WILL eventually get better (Beta I was a high Silver/low Gold player, so I know I've got a lot of learning still to do)
There are two key things:
Make a concave (a line, basically) with your marines as close as possible to each enemy encampment. Raynor front and center of course.
The second important thing is when the reinforcements drop, run-shoot with them while your concave on the right moves in to support. As in, shoot, run until the cool-down for marines is over, a-click somewhere once, move again, until all your forces are together.
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On July 28 2010 23:46 Cofo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 20:50 samalie wrote:I seem to be caught in a no-mans land at the moment LOL "Hard" is, well, pretty easy for me. But "Brutal" is just that...I can't even get the first mission done on brutal  Good to hear I'm not alone in this situation, lol. I can sympathize. They should add a "very hard" between hard and brutal!
I am also glad some other people think this and I am surprised even more arent making threads about it or something. When I play hard I feel like I am not getting the most out of campaign because it is so easy. When I play brutal i feel like i got the disk version of the game instead of the digital so I could break the dvd in half.
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Dang you're thinking way too hard about that first mission, just clump your marines in a big ball and make sure all of them are firing at once with move-shoot micro. Finished it with 2 almost dead marines and Raynor at full HP my first try :/
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I just beat the night/day one. I failed the my first attempt because I missed that 3-4 got into my mineral line and wiped it clean.
What I did which made this mission easy to the point of stupidity on brutal: + Show Spoiler + Required tech: increased medic healing, but you got that first anyways, because you arn't a retard. Suggested tech: all techs for medic marine firebat (I didn't have FB armour, and it would have made it even easier...)
Put 2 supply depots on each of your 2 starting enterences, so they are on either side, making a 1-depot wide empty spot. Hold position 2 firebats per enterence right in the choke, and put a medic behind each of them. I had 5 racks, 4 with reactor 1 with tech lab since I had the tech to allow medics without the tech lab. I just pumped straight medic marine, while maintaining 2 firebats/door. I lost 2-3 firebats and 10 or so marines, total, through the whole mission, mostly to the spine crawlers Put spare depots on the south debris wall in prep for it getting busted down, with the same gap in the middle (putting a sunken depot just makes pathing to stand on it annoying) During the day clear out wherever you want, you'll have so many medic marine just stim your way through the buildings with 2-3 groups. I didn't get the timing achiev, cause I had to wait for night to get the 2nd infestor cause I forgot about it.
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I'm on supernova now. Seriously, I hate timed missions with a passion that burns brighter than a thousand suns. I tried to bypass everything with viking/banshee, but when I attack the temple, every protoss and their mother comes to defend it. I mean every single one. Every observer, phoenix, scout, carrier, HT, stalker and Archon rallies from the whole map to defend the motherfucking temple. It's complete retarded and ridiculous lol.
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On July 29 2010 01:53 Shifft wrote: Dang you're thinking way too hard about that first mission, just clump your marines in a big ball and make sure all of them are firing at once with move-shoot micro. Finished it with 2 almost dead marines and Raynor at full HP my first try :/
people are having trouble with this?
I finished it with most of my guys alive and easily got all 3 achievs on the first try, and I'm just a D+ level player...
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On July 28 2010 00:11 Psyonic_Reaver wrote: Brutal makes things interesting. On the great train robbery those death squads, once they see you. Never. Ever. Stop following.
I did shred them to pieces :p!
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Hey guys, I'm a pretty bad player (silver), but I'm attempting this game on brutal. Right now, it's pretty tough, but I have to say that I am surviving, scraping my way through.
The problem is, I am starting to get less and less of the bonus objectives, which I assume is critical for upgrading my army or whatnot. Am I just digging myself into a deeper hole here with each "successful" mission, or can I continue onwards.
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On July 29 2010 03:41 Karliath wrote: Hey guys, I'm a pretty bad player (silver), but I'm attempting this game on brutal. Right now, it's pretty tough, but I have to say that I am surviving, scraping my way through.
The problem is, I am starting to get less and less of the bonus objectives, which I assume is critical for upgrading my army or whatnot. Am I just digging myself into a deeper hole here with each "successful" mission, or can I continue onwards.
I'd say if you get stuck on a mission, you can go back and focus on getting the bonus objectives you missed. It seems all fairly easy on brutal if you know the missions, the difficulty so far for me has been scouting everywhere for the bonus objectives that they don't tell you where they are...
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On July 29 2010 00:58 Jyvblamo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2010 21:17 kzn wrote:Ugh, I'm stuck on Supernova right now. I don't see how its possible to get a ground army that's capable of doing anything. I've been trying to sneak banshees in to kill the vault, but no success as yet. After a while of faceplanting when I tried to be tricky on that, I went to the tried and true fallback of marine/marauder/medic. 1 or 2 reactored rax, 1 lab rax, 1 lab starport, and I pumped basically marine/marine/medic/marauder/banshee every cycle. I ended up barely managing the last push, but I pushed a bit earlier than I needed to as well. I finally beat the mission, I smooshed my army into the bottom corner and waited until the fire killed all of the protoss, then ran in and sniped the objective. =P
Wait what? How many dropship of troops did you have? Is it even possible to build enough troops on your first base?
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On July 29 2010 03:59 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 03:41 Karliath wrote: Hey guys, I'm a pretty bad player (silver), but I'm attempting this game on brutal. Right now, it's pretty tough, but I have to say that I am surviving, scraping my way through.
The problem is, I am starting to get less and less of the bonus objectives, which I assume is critical for upgrading my army or whatnot. Am I just digging myself into a deeper hole here with each "successful" mission, or can I continue onwards. I'd say if you get stuck on a mission, you can go back and focus on getting the bonus objectives you missed. It seems all fairly easy on brutal if you know the missions, the difficulty so far for me has been scouting everywhere for the bonus objectives that they don't tell you where they are...
So do you mean replaying each mission for the bonus objectives right after I've beaten them, or after I've finished the campaign? I'd prefer the latter, but once again, I'm afraid that I'll fall behind on upgrades.
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Unless you're wasting money upgrading units you never use, you'll have plenty for the essentials just from the base rewards. Just try and pick up as many of the research bonuses as you can (you don't need even nearly all of them to max out research but the more the better).
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Yeah, I picked brutal right off the bat. And... it's brutal. 
Even in the first mission I had the restart at least 3 times and when I did finish it the only unit I had left was Raynor. I haven't played the easy modes yet, but it was mentioned that the AI is much better in the harder difficulties. They micro better, target critical units, and move wounded units back. They don't always do this though. Not sure what other differences there could be. Maybe more enemy units. Extra money?
Definitely a challenge. At least I have to put in effort to win like micro/macro well and not just a-move faceroll my way to victory.
Oh and I remember when some of TL's guys previewed the single player on brutal and I think they got owned.
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On July 29 2010 04:13 Ownos wrote:Yeah, I picked brutal right off the bat. And... it's brutal.  Even in the first mission I had the restart at least 3 times and when I did finish it the only unit I had left was Raynor. I haven't played the easy modes yet, but it was mentioned that the AI is much better in the harder difficulties. They micro better, target critical units, and move wounded units back. They don't always do this though. Not sure what other differences there could be. Maybe more enemy units. Extra money? Definitely a challenge. At least I have to put in effort to win like micro/macro well and not just a-move faceroll my way to victory. Oh and I remember when some of TL's guys previewed the single player on brutal and I think they got owned.
Haha yea, I had Raynor left with 18 health T_T.
But yeah, thanks for the help guys. I'll just try to scrape me way through brutal then, seeing as not all bonus objectives are necessary to survive. I am an achievement whore though, so I'll definitely be playing it on an easier difficulty next time to get the goods.
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So far I'm not finding brutal too hard, because there's almost always some trick that you can use to make micro count for a lot more than it usually would.
Right now I'm currently stuck on "A sinister turn" in the Zeratul missions, wondering how other folks went through it. Finding that by the time I get through the first enemy base the thing is so strong that I run out of money trying to push towards the objective.
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Completed it on hard, went back for the kerrigan portrait, realised it was idd BRUTAL and that I was being molested so right now I'm crying over my lost love kerrigan over a glass of whiskey but some day, maybe not this year I will be the man who brings her down!
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On July 29 2010 04:21 SharkSpider wrote: So far I'm not finding brutal too hard, because there's almost always some trick that you can use to make micro count for a lot more than it usually would.
Right now I'm currently stuck on "A sinister turn" in the Zeratul missions, wondering how other folks went through it. Finding that by the time I get through the first enemy base the thing is so strong that I run out of money trying to push towards the objective.
You should probably post this in a new/different thread. I think this one's only for non-mission specific (non-spoiler) posts.
Anyways, a further question of my own. If I'm playing the campaign on brutal, can I redo certain missions on an easier difficulty? I just want to get the bonus objectives + money + whatever from them. I assume that this won't interfere with the "complete campaign on brutal" achievement, since I will be beating each mission first on brutal.
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OH MY GOD I JUST FINISHED IT. Last mission was seriously hard, beat it on the sixth try. Ima go get a beer :D
I'm 25/26 though for some reason, I probably missed a secret mission or something ..
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On July 29 2010 04:00 skyR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 00:58 Jyvblamo wrote:On July 28 2010 21:17 kzn wrote:Ugh, I'm stuck on Supernova right now. I don't see how its possible to get a ground army that's capable of doing anything. I've been trying to sneak banshees in to kill the vault, but no success as yet. After a while of faceplanting when I tried to be tricky on that, I went to the tried and true fallback of marine/marauder/medic. 1 or 2 reactored rax, 1 lab rax, 1 lab starport, and I pumped basically marine/marine/medic/marauder/banshee every cycle. I ended up barely managing the last push, but I pushed a bit earlier than I needed to as well. I finally beat the mission, I smooshed my army into the bottom corner and waited until the fire killed all of the protoss, then ran in and sniped the objective. =P Wait what? How many dropship of troops did you have? Is it even possible to build enough troops on your first base? I mined out more than just the first base. I think I went through all of the lower bases, ending up with around a 70 supply army. I didn't use any dropships =P
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On July 29 2010 04:24 Karliath wrote: Anyways, a further question of my own. If I'm playing the campaign on brutal, can I redo certain missions on an easier difficulty? I just want to get the bonus objectives + money + whatever from them. I assume that this won't interfere with the "complete campaign on brutal" achievement, since I will be beating each mission first on brutal.
Yes. After doing a mission on brutal, I sometimes go back to do the mission achievements on hard if they're interesting, and my brutal mission achievement still records the completions.
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I flew through on Hard difficulty pretty easily, except for struggling super hardcore at the last level. I can't imagine beating it on brutal.
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Flexing my Kerrigan icon now, thanks to my ladder being bugged out all of yesterday. After all 29, I can safely say that the train mission was the most annoying.
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I thought it was too easy, did half of the missions first try, the other half after one restart when I screwed up somewhere, or didn't really know what's the right thing to do. The last one was decently tough, where I needed about 3 tries. Although it was still kind of disappointing, compared to the last missions of warcraft 3 and it's add-on, which were much more fun and left you with more strategies to try than this last mission. Here it is just about positioning the siege tanks right.
I had an awesome moment in the zombie mission, where my static defense got overrun with the wave on day 6 or so, and I just had my army left. I ran my army in to finish the job, but didn't realize that spine crawlers counted as infested buildings, so I went around it, and just as I realized I had to destroy it, my army got destroyed and I had an almost empty base left. I lifted my cc and barracks, and got everything out of there, letting the zombies destroy the base. When day broke in, zombies had just reached the spaceship. I had a barracks training a marine with 50 minerals i had left, and the cc landed at the minerals at the north, with 2 scvs mining. I killed the spine crawler with all I had left (a single marauder, 3 marines and 2 scvs) 20 seconds before the next night.
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On July 29 2010 07:33 h3r1n6 wrote: I thought it was too easy, did half of the missions first try, the other half after one restart when I screwed up somewhere, or didn't really know what's the right thing to do. The last one was decently tough, where I needed about 3 tries. Although it was still kind of disappointing, compared to the last missions of warcraft 3 and it's add-on, which were much more fun and left you with more strategies to try than this last mission. Here it is just about positioning the siege tanks right.
I had an awesome moment in the zombie mission, where my static defense got overrun with the wave on day 6 or so, and I just had my army left. I ran my army in to finish the job, but didn't realize that spine crawlers counted as infested buildings, so I went around it, and just as I realized I had to destroy it, my army got destroyed and I had an almost empty base left. I lifted my cc and barracks, and got everything out of there, letting the zombies destroy the base. When day broke in, zombies had just reached the spaceship. I had a barracks training a marine with 50 minerals i had left, and the cc landed at the minerals at the north, with 2 scvs mining. I killed the spine crawler with all I had left (a single marauder, 3 marines and 2 scvs) 20 seconds before the next night.
"zombies" is not exactly spoiler free.
I play the campaign on brutal. If I go back and do missions on easier difficulties, will I still be able to collect bonuses, alien technology, money, etc?
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I'm about halfway through the campaign on brutal. So far it's been easy, I barely have to macro at all. Heck in one of the missions, I even went over 8k minerals and I still beat it!
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I agree the game sorta outright lies to you what units you should make to beat the level. Maybe that advice is good advice for normal. Like on outbreak(?) they tell you MAKE HELIONS HAHA THEY CAN GO OUT AND THEN COME BACK TO DEFEND AT NIGHT. I found it easier to have M&M ball running around with stim nonstop (medic heal is OP!) Then again depends on your upgrade choices by that time. Might have been good on that level to use helions.
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Just did this mission on brutal, was going for the 25 minute achievement, didn't know how close I actually was 
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Holy heck brutal is ridiculous T.T I mean, I hardly played beta and decided to go with brutal right off the bat, and even on the first few missions I really can't mess around. Its all macro mode all the time, and even then its ridiculous. The night/day mission I ended up getting my 200/200 bioball massacred and I died horribly with only a few enemy buildings left 
edit: I blame my BW muscles and their "WE NEED 50+ WORKERS" reflexes lol.
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Has anyone beat "Engine of Destruction" on brutal without siege tanks or the repair faster upgrade?
Haven't gone back since the first night, but spent a few hours, could only get to the last section.
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![[image loading]](http://files.lostanarchy.com/ras/brutal.jpg)
Awwwww yeah. I thought brutal was a great difficulty for a fun play through, although I'm a bit disappointed that there isn't anything harder. Most of the missions were one base, make 100 supply worth of units, and a-move across the map to victory. Anything harder just required siege mode every now and then. In Utter Darkness gave me the most problems by far, but I'm a Terran player who really hates Protoss.
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I think Brutal's perfectly fine. It's hard and really annoying (since the AI cheats a bunch) and any harder and it'd be damn near impossible, but it's still very beatable if you have proper macro. The key to winning is the right unit composition in 90% of the missions.
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Just finished getting my Kerrigan avatar too :D
Last mission was a real bitch though.
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wth is it with people not being able to read "keep it spoilerfree."
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I was doing well until Moebius Factor, where I had to cheat. No one has ever said that mission was hard. Am I missing something here?
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On July 29 2010 12:40 rockon1215 wrote: I was doing well until Moebius Factor, where I had to cheat. No one has ever said that mission was hard. Am I missing something here?
MMM+Tanks, abuse high grounds, find the right route through and just snipe the archives.
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On July 29 2010 14:32 h3r1n6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 12:40 rockon1215 wrote: I was doing well until Moebius Factor, where I had to cheat. No one has ever said that mission was hard. Am I missing something here? MMM+Tanks, abuse high grounds, find the right route through and just snipe the archives. I found Hercules dropships are really good for this mission as well, build a couple and just kamikaze drop at the archives. It's the only way I found I could sufficiently complete this mission on Brutal.
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On July 29 2010 19:10 SBelmont wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 14:32 h3r1n6 wrote:On July 29 2010 12:40 rockon1215 wrote: I was doing well until Moebius Factor, where I had to cheat. No one has ever said that mission was hard. Am I missing something here? MMM+Tanks, abuse high grounds, find the right route through and just snipe the archives. I found Hercules dropships are really good for this mission as well, build a couple and just kamikaze drop at the archives. It's the only way I found I could sufficiently complete this mission on Brutal.
Really O.O? + Show Spoiler [Moebius Facotr on brutal] + 1st archive is a piece of cake. Take the 2 medivacs and all the rines you got and go to the mercs. FF the archives, it falls. Take everything back to your base. Wall in with a bunker and 2 depots or a bunker and a barracks. Fill said bunker with war pigs. and put 3-5 scvs behind to defend it. That's it for base defence right there or add 1-2 tanks.
Lift rax or submerge depots and move out with 1-2 sieges and a handful of mnm + medivacs kill the nyuds ASAP, after that go to the cliff east of your base. Get everything on high ground and just wait for all the patrols to die. Add vikings, more marines (assuming medics don't die) and another 3-4 medivacs. Maybe some tanks too if you're not used to doing these surgical attacks.
Once that is done ferry everything back to the ground level but on the Zs side. go a little north kill the spores and all the crap that's there, and siege your tanks up right by the cliffs. FF the 2nd research centre with tanks.
When that's done you should have a sizeable army of vikings/tanks/mnm + a few medivacs. Go back to the cliff from which you ferried your units down.
Get everything into the medivacs and send vikings+army in medivacs to the brutalisk. Try to avoid the random hydras along the way. Kill the brutal or not. Your choice. Once you've made the choice, go a little west. There will be a good landing spot with 4 spores around, but it's as close as you'll get to the 3rd archives.
Send in vikings 1st to tank the spores while the medivacs unload. After they unload, change the vikings into ground form. Kill the spores and move up to the hive+3rd RC. siege tanks so that they will hit the centre. put everything around the tanks so roaches won't take pot shots at them. Depending where Kerri is, either FF the RC or don't. If she's already by the centre (very rare) just FF the centre with everything you've got. stim the rines, siege the tanks, attack with vikings. It will fall if you're army is big enough.
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On July 29 2010 02:22 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2010 01:53 Shifft wrote: Dang you're thinking way too hard about that first mission, just clump your marines in a big ball and make sure all of them are firing at once with move-shoot micro. Finished it with 2 almost dead marines and Raynor at full HP my first try :/ people are having trouble with this? I finished it with most of my guys alive and easily got all 3 achievs on the first try, and I'm just a D+ level player...
Is it really necessary to post something that does nothing but brag and insult newer players?
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Quick question: I've been reading the horror stories about people not being able to get their Kerrigan icon because they've missed missions after they went to Char and weren't able to go back and complete them. Currently the only mission I have available to me is the first Char mission and I was wondering if 3 of the "Prophecy" missions become available after I commit to Char. Did I miss something or am I all clear to continue (I did the secret mission, so the only missions I have left are the Final missions and 3 of the Prophecy missions)?
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Just wanted to say - thanks for the advice.
I was the poor schmuck caught in the hard too easy - brutal WAY too hard.
Well, the little bit of advice I took has dramatically improved my micro & got me 6 minssions completed last night on brutal. Brutal is a SERIOUS challenge for me, and taking everything I have to beat (and in some cases BARELY beat), but its better than a cakewalk.
+ Show Spoiler +The 3rd (?) mission I think - the 30 minute holdout against the zerg - I somehow managed to pull off a "victory" with a floating CC being attacked by a swarm of mutas with exactly 235hp left at the timer expiry. THe day/night mission I got just massacared Night #8, had one supply depot left & about 5 units. Managed to take out the last 12 buildings before Night 9.
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On July 30 2010 00:14 Swissm wrote: Quick question: I've been reading the horror stories about people not being able to get their Kerrigan icon because they've missed missions after they went to Char and weren't able to go back and complete them. Currently the only mission I have available to me is the first Char mission and I was wondering if 3 of the "Prophecy" missions become available after I commit to Char. Did I miss something or am I all clear to continue (I did the secret mission, so the only missions I have left are the Final missions and 3 of the Prophecy missions)?
Dunno but it's safer to do them before char. IMO you won't be able to access the crystal after you've left the Hyperion. You access the prophecy missions in your Laboratory using the crystal (the weird tri-pod leaf-shaped thing-y Zeratul gave you)
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Oh ok, so you get the Prophecy missions from the crystal Zeratul gives you in the cinematic not the bridge? Serves me right for just clicking on the merc computer, lab upgrades, armory upgrades, and bridge quest-giver thing.
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![[image loading]](http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/1500/kerriganproof.png)
Rawr, finally. Going back to do choice missions was a bit of a pest. If you've missed stuff, all your saves are stored in My Documents/Starcraft II/TonsOfStuff/Unsaved - copy and paste the ones you want into your Campaign folder to go back and do stuff again, such as getting the secret mission.
Just a few notes on the harder missions (Put in spoiler tags, just in case):
The Great Train Robbery + Show Spoiler +I waited until I had tanks to do this one. The hardest trains are the super-fast ones - getting a bunch of Diamondbacks and focus firing is the key. Use tanks to kill the marauder packs before they become a problem and get some vikings for the last train, to clear away the banshees. Not the hardest, but I had to redo that last train a few times.
The Dig + Show Spoiler +Probably the first truly hard mission, the key here is to deal with problems before they arrive. Wall off with bunkers and siege tanks and get SCVs patrolling for repairs. When you get manual laser control, deal with Colossi, Immortals and finally Archons - in that order. Colossi are only a threat due to their sight-giving aspect, while Immortals will chew up your defenses. When Templar start appearing, use tanks to snipe them - this is vital. For air waves, kill Carriers, then Void Rays, then Transports. Your ground defense can handle anything warped in, but not void rays eating your tanks.
The Moebius Factor + Show Spoiler +Some found this easy, some found it hard. The key is in the tip they give you about high ground - personally I had most success using tanks and marines, landing them on high ground and clearing away spore turrets and the like. For the first Data Core, well, just drop marines. For the second, drop on the high ground to the northwest of your base, clear away the spore crawlers, then land on the low ground. Move behind the data core with tanks and use medivacs to get sight, kill it from below.
The final one is the trickiest, and you just need to take some shots from spore colonies to get there. Land tanks on the high ground just outside the base (again, bring some marines for AA) and clear a safe patch on the ground, then push forwards. Use tanks to focus down the Data Core and marines to keep the area clear.
In Utter Darkness + Show Spoiler +This one gets covered a lot, the key is to get a second forge and upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. Build nothing but colossi for the ground, and get pheonixes and void rays in the air. Use excess minerals to make cannons. When the hybrids come, use lift to render them harmless (ranged ones first, then the melee ones when you get more pheonix). This should make it much easier. I started making more and more carriers towards the end, which seemed to help a lot, too.
Supernova + Show Spoiler +This one seems to cause pepople trouble. The key is aggressive banshee use. Build lots of them as soon as you can and repair damaged ones. Towards the later bases, get some vikings in the air to counter the 'toss air. Use a few tanks and marines to defend your base, and when transferring to the last base, get a medivac or two to ship units up onto the high ground.
All In This one is just plain nasty. It'd need a thread of it's own - which it even has.
I'll start doing recordings of the harder missions and talking through them. If people want to post up what they think are the hardest levels, I'll get to work on that right away.
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On July 28 2010 02:39 Amber[LighT] wrote:Spoiler alert? Just in case... + Show Spoiler +Hardest missions so far are the ones in Zeratuls vision... the fourth one (the future without Kerrigan) was a bitch to beat. Kept getting about 1,900 kills after Artanis warps in and then I would die... And I'm playing on hard... guess my strategy of just making cannons and high templar to warp into archons later was a fail strat  Something that works well here is to use phoenixes to lift the hybrids when they come. Those are the worst threat you're facing.
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Wanted to ask a quick question but didn't want to start a new thread: Do you get more credits according to the difficulty level? If you complete every mission in Brutal, is that enough to buy all the unit upgrades and Mercs? Because it's pretty lame if you can't.
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On July 31 2010 02:13 MangoTango wrote: Wanted to ask a quick question but didn't want to start a new thread: Do you get more credits according to the difficulty level? If you complete every mission in Brutal, is that enough to buy all the unit upgrades and Mercs? Because it's pretty lame if you can't.
No, it's not. You basically have to go thru multiple campaigns to purchase everything.
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On July 31 2010 02:16 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 02:13 MangoTango wrote: Wanted to ask a quick question but didn't want to start a new thread: Do you get more credits according to the difficulty level? If you complete every mission in Brutal, is that enough to buy all the unit upgrades and Mercs? Because it's pretty lame if you can't. No, it's not. You basically have to go thru multiple campaigns to purchase everything.
That's basically the worst thing ever. Although I've found a trick to get around this: if you purchase stuff and then quit, the achievements get saved but the purchases don't. So save up a bunch of credits first, then buy everything all at once (you'll get achieve), then log out. When you log in again, you'll have all your credits back, upgrades not purchased, achievement earned.
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On July 31 2010 02:18 MangoTango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 02:16 shinosai wrote:On July 31 2010 02:13 MangoTango wrote: Wanted to ask a quick question but didn't want to start a new thread: Do you get more credits according to the difficulty level? If you complete every mission in Brutal, is that enough to buy all the unit upgrades and Mercs? Because it's pretty lame if you can't. No, it's not. You basically have to go thru multiple campaigns to purchase everything. That's basically the worst thing ever. Although I've found a trick to get around this: if you purchase stuff and then quit, the achievements get saved but the purchases don't. So save up a bunch of credits first, then buy everything all at once (you'll get achieve), then log out. When you log in again, you'll have all your credits back, upgrades not purchased, achievement earned.
Wow that is great thanks!
How about researches though??
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On July 31 2010 02:22 Viker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2010 02:18 MangoTango wrote:On July 31 2010 02:16 shinosai wrote:On July 31 2010 02:13 MangoTango wrote: Wanted to ask a quick question but didn't want to start a new thread: Do you get more credits according to the difficulty level? If you complete every mission in Brutal, is that enough to buy all the unit upgrades and Mercs? Because it's pretty lame if you can't. No, it's not. You basically have to go thru multiple campaigns to purchase everything. That's basically the worst thing ever. Although I've found a trick to get around this: if you purchase stuff and then quit, the achievements get saved but the purchases don't. So save up a bunch of credits first, then buy everything all at once (you'll get achieve), then log out. When you log in again, you'll have all your credits back, upgrades not purchased, achievement earned. Wow that is great thanks! How about researches though??
Why would you care about researches? You get the achieve no matter which ones you choose, so long as you get to 25 Z and 25 P.
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Yea I just wondered if it was possible to get to 25 in both toss and zerg in the same campaign.
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On July 31 2010 02:28 Viker wrote: Yea I just wondered if it was possible to get to 25 in both toss and zerg in the same campaign.
It's so easy! In fact, if you get more than 25, you actually start selling them for 10k credits a pop. Do the crystal missions, they'll get you halfway to each by themselves.
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Brutal is the only way, it was really entertaining, when you get zergd you jsut try to keep on for your life, you really feel like your "just" holding out.
+ Show Spoiler + The 3rd (?) mission I think - the 30 minute holdout against the zerg - I somehow managed to pull off a "victory" with a floating CC being attacked by a swarm of mutas with exactly 235hp left at the timer expiry.
Lol, i did teh same thing, was intense P
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Everything was breeze-through up to Haven missions, I had to retry 2-3 times trying to figure the best and fastest way to approach them, after finding out the early timings of events it became pretty easy too.
Will see how the rest turn out.
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Imo brutal is the best way to enjoy the full WoL campaign experience, plus getting that sexy kerrigan portrait is well worth the trouble
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Could somebody please let me know do I get achievments only on hard and normal difficulty or on brutal as well ? Played warez version lol, now bought legal.
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On July 31 2010 19:02 seolinker wrote: Could somebody please let me know do I get achievments only on hard and normal difficulty or on brutal as well ? Played warez version lol, now bought legal.
It's been mentioned in several places that the mentioned difficulty is the minimum required difficulty so yes, you can and do get those achievements on Brutal.
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In Utter Darkness is just brutalising me terribly.
+ Show Spoiler +Spamming pure colossi/phoenix with upgrades is getting me killed far faster than if I spam zealots as well, but with zealot spam I simply run out of resources and die around 1300-1500 kills. Without the zealots my colossi slowly die out, and I end up getting murdered by the pure zerg attack that comes from two directions at a time early on.
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It's been mentioned in several places that the mentioned difficulty is the minimum required difficulty so yes, you can and do get those achievements on Brutal.Last edit: 2010-07-31 19:27:11
Well, on my Russian forums it says it doesn't. You may go everyting on Brutal, but still not get achievments for Normal level.
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any tips for welcome to the jungle?
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On April 24 2011 02:16 atdsutm wrote: any tips for welcome to the jungle? I think on Brutal I used suicide squads of 3/4 Helions to quickly kill their Probes only when they tried to seal of. Quite a long time ago, so I'm not 100% sure. But I remember it worked pretty well for me, it was a quick and dirty way of stopping them quickly when they sealed one on the other side of the map.
-- edit
I was double checking if it was the same mission and there's a YouTube video which should also give you a strategy for it (I have not checked it myself).
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