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On October 19 2009 20:40 Patriot.dlk wrote:
I found the missing piece in my diet and it's fruit. I've doubled how much fruit I eat everyday and I did that easily since this time a year the orange fruits are very delicious.
I also changed how I do the bench press accordingly to tips I got here and I no longer waste strength on gradually increasing, instead I started with 55kg and to my excitement I could do that weight for two sets and it felt great. Third set failed completely and I had to drop down to 35 before I could do a proper set.
You... you stopped warming up and just go straight to your max set? That's a tip now?
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On October 19 2009 20:40 Patriot.dlk wrote:
I found the missing piece in my diet and it's fruit. I've doubled how much fruit I eat everyday and I did that easily since this time a year the orange fruits are very delicious.
I also changed how I do the bench press accordingly to tips I got here and I no longer waste strength on gradually increasing, instead I started with 55kg and to my excitement I could do that weight for two sets and it felt great. Third set failed completely and I had to drop down to 35 before I could do a proper set.
Yeah dude, you need to do your warmup sets. They shouldn't be much.
If you're benching what 55 kg (is that with the bar or without the bar? bar is added in calcs)
You should warm up like this:
45x6, 65x4, 95x2, then work sets
Basically a sort of decreasing pyramid as you increase weight. Rest about 2-3 minutes between work sets.
Honestly, you don't really need to do so many for lighter weight. Once you start getting up into the 200+ lbs for upper body stuff, and 300-400+ with squat/DLs then you really need to warm them up.
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madnessman:
One of my friends who was a sprinter said that if you want to do tabata work with sprints it's best to reverse the work/rest intervals. So sprint 10s and rest 20s. Or even 10/40 may work better. You get better quality work that way.
Tabata tends to be best with exercises that you can't do more than about 20-25 reps. With sprinting you're taking at least 80+ steps (aka reps) if you're running 20s. The quality of work degrades fast.
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On October 20 2009 02:30 eshlow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2009 20:40 Patriot.dlk wrote:
I found the missing piece in my diet and it's fruit. I've doubled how much fruit I eat everyday and I did that easily since this time a year the orange fruits are very delicious.
I also changed how I do the bench press accordingly to tips I got here and I no longer waste strength on gradually increasing, instead I started with 55kg and to my excitement I could do that weight for two sets and it felt great. Third set failed completely and I had to drop down to 35 before I could do a proper set.
Yeah dude, you need to do your warmup sets. They shouldn't be much. If you're benching what 55 kg (is that with the bar or without the bar? bar is added in calcs) You should warm up like this: 45x6, 65x4, 95x2, then work sets Basically a sort of decreasing pyramid as you increase weight. Rest about 2-3 minutes between work sets. Honestly, you don't really need to do so many for lighter weight. Once you start getting up into the 200+ lbs for upper body stuff, and 300-400+ with squat/DLs then you really need to warm them up.
First let me clarify:
Yes I added the bar in my calc. When I do bench press I do it directly after 30-45 minutes of cardio using a crosstrainer and I try to use my arms alot to get my upper body warmed up.
So when I get off the machine I feel freaking exhausted and warmed up. I take a minute or two wiping the machine, drinking water and adjusting the bench and weights and by that time I'm recovered enough to give it my best. I do 3-4 push ups and then bench the bar 3-4 times and if it feels good I go straight for my max and it's currently 55 kg bar included.
Did you mean I should do one set using 35 x 6 to warm up followed by my standard weight and right before the sets do my MAX two times?
My only problem with this is that I will probably not be able to do a single proper set at 55 afterwards because I struggle at my second one even. So I assume I should drop down to using like 45 for the sets instead should I use your technique?
When I do squats I also go straight from my cardio and I'm feeling quite warmed up and I just do one set nothing one set bar only and then do my work sets using my max
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I think it's not just about warming up the muscles, but also getting the proper form before doing your real sets. Getting a feel for the movement while gradually increasing to the max weight helps to ensure that you will retain the proper form.
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Sanya12364 Posts
Wait you can barely do 2 reps? I think I'm reading that wrong.
Anyhow, I believe for proper strength and size development you should try for sets of 8 or 10 and really push it to feel that burn. A good follow up is to get a friend to spot as you do negative sets where you control the weight going down and get a little help on the way up. Doing 2 reps is for power development.
While doing a lot of weight might feel good for your ego, it's not very good for your development. Do it properly and you'll reap real rewards.
I tend to emphasis stamina over bulk so I do sets of 15 for warm up from 45kg all the way up to 65kg. I pyramid up to 85kg or so. It comes out to 60-70 repetitions for the bench press. That's a lot more than most people would do and it's because it's customized for my style.
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On October 20 2009 03:42 Patriot.dlk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2009 02:30 eshlow wrote:On October 19 2009 20:40 Patriot.dlk wrote:
I found the missing piece in my diet and it's fruit. I've doubled how much fruit I eat everyday and I did that easily since this time a year the orange fruits are very delicious.
I also changed how I do the bench press accordingly to tips I got here and I no longer waste strength on gradually increasing, instead I started with 55kg and to my excitement I could do that weight for two sets and it felt great. Third set failed completely and I had to drop down to 35 before I could do a proper set.
Yeah dude, you need to do your warmup sets. They shouldn't be much. If you're benching what 55 kg (is that with the bar or without the bar? bar is added in calcs) You should warm up like this: 45x6, 65x4, 95x2, then work sets Basically a sort of decreasing pyramid as you increase weight. Rest about 2-3 minutes between work sets. Honestly, you don't really need to do so many for lighter weight. Once you start getting up into the 200+ lbs for upper body stuff, and 300-400+ with squat/DLs then you really need to warm them up. First let me clarify: Yes I added the bar in my calc. When I do bench press I do it directly after 30-45 minutes of cardio using a crosstrainer and I try to use my arms alot to get my upper body warmed up. So when I get off the machine I feel freaking exhausted and warmed up. I take a minute or two wiping the machine, drinking water and adjusting the bench and weights and by that time I'm recovered enough to give it my best. I do 3-4 push ups and then bench the bar 3-4 times and if it feels good I go straight for my max and it's currently 55 kg bar included. Did you mean I should do one set using 35 x 6 to warm up followed by my standard weight and right before the sets do my MAX two times? My only problem with this is that I will probably not be able to do a single proper set at 55 afterwards because I struggle at my second one even. So I assume I should drop down to using like 45 for the sets instead should I use your technique? When I do squats I also go straight from my cardio and I'm feeling quite warmed up and I just do one set nothing one set bar only and then do my work sets using my max
You should do your cardio after your weightlifting. You will not be getting the same mass gains or strength gains if you put it after. Routines are usually structured to give you optimal results in everything you are doing. So, for example, if we had lots of stuff to do in a single session it's always:
1. warmup with dynamic movements,
2. skill work
3. power/strength work
4. conditioning/cardio
5. cool down/static stretching/prehab or rehab work
In reality, if you were aiming for maximal mass or strength you wouldn't be really doing any cardio either.
In any case, with the weights you are doing you should be aiming for ~3 sets of 5 reps at least. Adding weight to the bar each time for your work sets.
On October 20 2009 04:20 TanGeng wrote:
Wait you can barely do 2 reps? I think I'm reading that wrong.
Anyhow, I believe for proper strength and size development you should try for sets of 8 or 10 and really push it to feel that burn. A good follow up is to get a friend to spot as you do negative sets where you control the weight going down and get a little help on the way up. Doing 2 reps is for power development.
While doing a lot of weight might feel good for your ego, it's not very good for your development. Do it properly and you'll reap real rewards.
I tend to emphasis stamina over bulk so I do sets of 15 for warm up from 45kg all the way up to 65kg. I pyramid up to 85kg or so. It comes out to 60-70 repetitions for the bench press. That's a lot more than most people would do and it's because it's customized for my style.
As a relative beginner/intermediate it's best to aim for 25-50 reps for strength & mass while adding weight to the bar each time. Even less on a novice program -- 3x5 works pretty well -- such as in the context of Starting Strength.
If you're aiming for stamina like you are then what you're doing is OK. But it would be better to work even up to 15-20 RM if that's the case. That's more biased towards endurance.
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Actually you read it right but I exaggerated when I said it. Most of the time I can do all three sets but I really have to PUSH for it and sometimes I can only do 5-6 the last set.
I'ts rare for me to workout with someone because I workout very early or random so I use a smith machine. I know using that machine is not optimal but I prefer it if I have no spotter.
I always do dumbbell chest press after bench press so I at least get a little bit of balance training...
Next week I will go for less weights and 8-10 sets and use the warm-up suggested by eshlow.
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Lol I never thought It would it would do any diffrence if I did my cardio first or after =/
1. warmup with dynamic movements,
2. skill work
3. power/strength work
4. conditioning/cardio
5. cool down/static stretching/prehab or rehab work
Examples of
1 2 and 5 would be appreciated.
In reality, if you were aiming for maximal mass or strength you wouldn't be really doing any cardio either.
I want to bulk up but I probably can't aim for maximal mass I guess since I also want to have good cardio AND most importantly I want to drop in body fat %
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I kind of wished I posted on this thread when I started this 'fitness' thing.
Before:
6'0"
155lbs
Pretty scrawny
Goal: Do whatever I could to gain some weight which seemed impossible at the time.
After
185lbs
Pretty big
I started off eating tons so I had a foundation for muscle. There were days where I packed 4000-5000 calories a day. Forced myself to eat all the time. As I did that I slowly started up in the gym. Slowly was key since I was in a car accident and never been too physical since. Never really watched what I ate, just made sure I had plenty of protein inside of me.
Within a month I put on 10lbs and now finished off at 185(total of 30lbs). Now I only eat 1700-3000 calories a day, sometimes less, sometimes more. Most of the fat just goes to my gut, wish I could get a bigger size, but no complaints.
Looks wise, I got huge. My arms grew really big and I completely avoid bicep exercises. Was trying to tone down on the stretch marks but they came in anyways. I try to mix up isolation and compound excercises, but I generally always end up doing compound. Exercises that I felt helped the most aside from Squats and Deadlifts were Incline Bench, Dips, and Lat Pulldown. I don't workout that long since I am very busy with a lot of things. Most of the time 30 mins. I do a lot of dropsets. If I'm only doing one exercise for a certain muscle group I do at least 5 sets.
Goal: Success. I get a lot of compliments and pretty happy where I am.
New goal: 195, and get my triceps and core much stronger.
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8748 Posts
madnessmen: 800m has always been my main event but I've done 400m - 3200m depending on what my team needed.
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On October 20 2009 04:52 Patriot.dlk wrote:Lol I never thought It would it would do any diffrence if I did my cardio first or after =/ Show nested quote +1. warmup with dynamic movements,
2. skill work
3. power/strength work
4. conditioning/cardio
5. cool down/static stretching/prehab or rehab work
Examples of 1 2 and 5 would be appreciated. Show nested quote +
In reality, if you were aiming for maximal mass or strength you wouldn't be really doing any cardio either.
I want to bulk up but I probably can't aim for maximal mass I guess since I also want to have good cardio AND most importantly I want to drop in body fat %
1. Warmup: Usually warmup consists of simple movements that you can do fairly easily chained in a circuit. The goal of a warmup is to get you moving and the blood flowing to work up to a light sweat. Not fatigue you for lifting.
So for example, a circuit of say 10 burpees, 10 airsquats, 5 pullups a couple times may be a decent warmup. It can be modified according to what your weaknesses are that you want to work on or if you have any mobility issues. Doesn't really matter to much.
2. Skill work.. if you play a sport generally you'd want to work on drills for it. For basketball this may be footwork, layouts, dribbling skills, passing, etc. For gymnastics it would be things like handstands, tumbling, etc,. For soccer, control drills with cones, passing drills with teammates, etc.
Is not necessary if you don't play a sport, but if you want to learn one it can be useful. Usually this work is NOT fatiguing much at all... you are learning and it doesn't take away from your workouts.
5. Cooldown. This is the time you want to do your stretching if you have teh tendency to get very tight muscles afterwards, or do a light jog to keep your muscles loose from cramping up if you just did some sprints or heavy squats/DLs/etc.
Rehab/prehab work is if you have an injury or sport where you need to rehab or be proactive to keep something from getting injured. For example, sports like basketball, soccer, etc. have high amounst of ankle sprains so it may be a good idea to do some ankle strengthening exercises or awareness drills (standing on one leg) as prehab work to help you gain awareness and prevent a high severity ankle sprain. If you already had a sprain, this is the time to do your strengthening + awareness as well to help prevent further injury.
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For you it would probably be better to run sprints of 400-800m with like a couple minutes rest in between each. If you want fast developing conditioning that is... and it should help you lose fat as well. But shrug if you like the cardio then keep it.
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Summer is starting in full down here in Ozland, so im going to start thinning down. Ill still keep my protein levels around 150-180grams (1-1.2g/lb) but ill cut down on the number of carbs im eating.
Ill stick with three weights sessions/week and the same number of cardio.
I think ill go for a swim, the weather is lovely outside!
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NeverGG
United Kingdom5399 Posts
I have the opposite motivator here. It's getting increasingly cold which means I'll be way more active than when it's boiling hot/humid. Thank god for korean Winters. (As long as it doesn't snow!)
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Should I do cardio one day and weights the next day? Or cardio in the morning and weights later that day?
Maybe do weights for 1-1,5 hours and then do cardio until I'm exhausted?
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eshlow or someone said to do cardio after weights so you can lift your untired potential
im guessing this means (for me) to walk straight into the gym and...
1. enter gym w/ bottle of milk
2. warmup squats
3. squats 3x5
4. warmup deadlift
5. deadlift 3x5 or something
6. warmup press
7. press 3x5 (i read INCLINE bench press is best for pecks but another website said it isnt???)
8. warmup row
9. pendlay row 3x5
10. warmup military press
11. military press (machine) 3x5
12. abs (leg raises, situps...whatever i can do....max strain min rep)
13. extras if i feel like it: pull/chinups, dips
14. cardio 22 mins jog/walk and/or exercise bike
15. finish milk, go get some food and more milk
16. record weights and try to add more weight in 2 days time
im guessing also that i should seriously just eat a SHITLOAD of sandwiches or something. i VERY seldom get hungry. is it an "OK" idea to forcefeed myself 4000 calories/day (and it would be serious force feeding) like that guy who posted above?? he said he was scrawny (like me, 75kg 188cm) and got massive quite quickly doing this...
thanks
note: after googling ill be trying to rest 2-3 minutes between sets
curiosity: 40 mins after i workout (nomatter what time of day) i suddenly feel so fucking dead and can drop sound asleep instantly. why is this? does eating a shitload of food stop this from happening? etc
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On October 20 2009 05:54 Liquid`NonY wrote:
madnessmen: 800m has always been my main event but I've done 400m - 3200m depending on what my team needed.
800m?! I hate that race. My events are probably 200m and 400m. I stopped running track freshman year though. I've been concentrating on my swimming because I have a decent chance of breaking the 50 free, 100 free, and 50 fly records at my school.
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Eshlow, do you know how fast the body breaks down muscle if it has to? I'm curious. If I reduce my caloric intake to something crazy like 1500-1200 calories a day (Lets say 50% protein, 20% fat, 30% carbs) for 2 weeks while relaying on ungodly amounts of supplements and stimulants to get me through my workouts. Would I lose a great deal of muscle mass? Currently, if I reduced my workouts to 3 days a week instead of 5-6 I could probably maintain my weight and muscles with about 3000 calories a day.
I just don't know if I will be able to reach my ideal goal before my trip in November. And I just can't eat any healthier or exercise anymore. My only option would be to eat even less. Currently consuming about 2000 calories a day.
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On October 20 2009 19:13 biomedical wrote:eshlow or someone said to do cardio after weights so you can lift your untired potential im guessing this means (for me) to walk straight into the gym and... 1. enter gym w/ bottle of milk 2. warmup squats 3. squats 3x5 4. warmup deadlift 5. deadlift 3x5 or something 6. warmup press 7. press 3x5 (i read INCLINE bench press is best for pecks but another website said it isnt???) 8. warmup row 9. pendlay row 3x5 10. warmup military press 11. military press (machine) 3x5 12. abs (leg raises, situps...whatever i can do....max strain min rep) 13. extras if i feel like it: pull/chinups, dips 14. cardio 22 mins jog/walk and/or exercise bike 15. finish milk, go get some food and more milk 16. record weights and try to add more weight in 2 days time im guessing also that i should seriously just eat a SHITLOAD of sandwiches or something. i VERY seldom get hungry. is it an "OK" idea to forcefeed myself 4000 calories/day (and it would be serious force feeding) like that guy who posted above?? he said he was scrawny (like me, 75kg 188cm) and got massive quite quickly doing this... thanks note: after googling ill be trying to rest 2-3 minutes between sets curiosity: 40 mins after i workout (nomatter what time of day) i suddenly feel so fucking dead and can drop sound asleep instantly. why is this? does eating a shitload of food stop this from happening? etc
A. Looks fine to me. Only thing I'd change is the deadlifts right before your abs work though. You won't get good effort out your DLs if they're right after your squats. You want to split up these two exercises.
B. Massive quantities of calories are the only way to gain weight... so yes. Preferably they're healthier stuff, but yeah if you wanna grow you just gotta eat a lot. That's why the original Starting Strength program is recommended with a gallon of whole milk a day.
C. For squats/DLs rest 4-5 minutes between work sets. These are your quality mass building exercises so you want to get the most performance out of them that you can -- which means near full recovery of ATP before you go again. For teh rest 2-4 minutes is fine.
On October 20 2009 18:43 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Should I do cardio one day and weights the next day? Or cardio in the morning and weights later that day?
Maybe do weights for 1-1,5 hours and then do cardio until I'm exhausted?
Cardio same day is fine. It's probably better the same day so you have a full rest day inbetween your workout days.
On October 20 2009 20:37 Energies wrote:
Eshlow, do you know how fast the body breaks down muscle if it has to? I'm curious. If I reduce my caloric intake to something crazy like 1500-1200 calories a day (Lets say 50% protein, 20% fat, 30% carbs) for 2 weeks while relaying on ungodly amounts of supplements and stimulants to get me through my workouts. Would I lose a great deal of muscle mass? Currently, if I reduced my workouts to 3 days a week instead of 5-6 I could probably maintain my weight and muscles with about 3000 calories a day.
I just don't know if I will be able to reach my ideal goal before my trip in November. And I just can't eat any healthier or exercise anymore. My only option would be to eat even less. Currently consuming about 2000 calories a day.
Your body will conserve muscle mass as much as it can with proper stimulus. This means that if you train at high intensity with heavy lifting, or sprints, or circuits at high intensity, or whatever have you where you're busting your balls then you will conserve muscle mass if you are in caloric deficit.
Now, since you are in deficit your glycogen recovery will be less, and your workouts may go to crap a bit, and you may feel tired a lot. But that's just because your body is trying to metabolize your fat stores for energy and being a bit behind in its ability to do so.
I would suggest you keep training 4-5 days a week. 2-3 days of heavy lifting, then the other 2-3 days of sprints/circuits/metabolic work/etc. Take most of your carbs for the day post workout. Stay in the 500-800 deficit calorie range.
If you want to lose fat faster you have to drop more carbs out of your diet. If you get your body to start preferentially metabolizing fat for energy, it's easier to burn off your fat stores. You don't necessarily have to go ketogenic, but <100g carbs a day would be much better.
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Few tidbits from me for today.
1) found these awesome protein bars with 35grams of protein for 280calories. Very happy with these as snacks. Much better than my previous 20grams for 240calories.
2) no carb diet has been surprisingly easy to stick to. I had egg whites and cottage cheese this morning, some grilled chicken for lunch, a protein bar in the afternnon. Ill had some prawns and salad for dinner, workout + protein shake later. Comfortable 150+ grams of protein!
3) my current abs workout routine is starting to get easy - shoudl I add weights? Currently I am doing:
-2 x 20 crunches
-2 x 20 oblique crunches
-2 x 15 lying down leg raises (not sure of the exact name, but you lie flat on your back then raise your legs to 90degrees, works out your lower abs)
-2 x 1 minute "plank"
any ideas how I can intensify this around the home? I do have access to plenty of weight plates.
thanks guys, keep up your great work!
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increase your plank duration or number of reps/planks
add some side planks
try L pullups/chins
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EPT
