NBA Playoffs + Finals 2019
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
13 ARPIL 2019 | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
GSW(1) vs LAC(8) HOU(4) vs UTA(5) DEN(2) vs SAS(7) POR(3) vs OKC(6) EAST: MIL(1) vs DET(8) BOS(4) vs IND(5) PHI(3) vs BKN(6) TOR(2) vs ORL(7) | ||
Twinkle Toes
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WEST: GSW(1) 4-1 LAC(8) HOU(4) 4-0 UTA(5) DEN(2) 3-4 SAS(7) POR(3) 1-4 OKC(6) EAST: MIL(1) 4-0 DET(8) BOS(4) 4-2 IND(5) PHI(3) 4-0 BKN(6) TOR(2) 4-0 ORL(7) | ||
Twinkle Toes
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BKN v PHI ORL v TOR LAC v GSW SAS v DEN | ||
Jerubaal
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I hope your prediction about the Spurs-Nuggets series is true, but, for West playoff teams, the Spurs are worst away and Nuggets are best at home. | ||
zev318
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Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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People have said Ben Simmons needs a jump shot to succeed in the playoffs. Hell, the way the Nets are playing off Simmons... if he had a set shot he'd be in business. I hope Ed Davis ankle sprain isn't too bad. He was ballin' Luke Walton found another job. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26515435/sources-walton-reaches-deal-coach-kings | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On April 14 2019 00:23 Jerubaal wrote: To answer your question about Lebron, Twinkletoes, I don't think any direct action by Lebron was needed. His past history as well as his attitude this year suggested that he was going to demand immediate success. That puts a lot of pressure on management to make changes. I hope your prediction about the Spurs-Nuggets series is true, but, for West playoff teams, the Spurs are worst away and Nuggets are best at home. Yeah, but its more possible than not that explicit message was made that led was made by Lebron and/or his camp which resulted in the how the Lakers are now. Yeah also, as a life long Spurs homer, Im excited about them now post-TD and post-Kawhi, but the Nuggets are so good this year. I really really want a good series, but I dont think Im ready for a heartache with DD on the team now. | ||
Elroi
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JimmyJRaynor
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On April 14 2019 05:59 Elroi wrote: I enjoy seeing teams that have been tanking lose the 76ers are getting boo-ed so hard.. i thought maybe Mitch Williams was at the game. | ||
Elroi
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JimmyJRaynor
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Elroi
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JimmyJRaynor
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The Nets played way, way off of Embiid when he was on the 3 point line. They probably know he can't practice his jumper. | ||
Elroi
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JimmyJRaynor
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greatest scene ... from the greatest Tarantino movie ever made. Recently traded players, Jonas Valancuinas and Delon Wright are in Toronto today to watch the game. The team culture Masai Ujiri has created is incredible. | ||
Elroi
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JimmyJRaynor
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Keep in mind, the Magic went 22-9 to end the year. People who were looking for the Raptors to sweep probably didn't watch the Magic much this year. The achilles heel for the Raptors is that this starting line up has not spent a lot of time playing together. On the game winning 3 Leonard and Gasol hesitated on who was covering DJ. Unfamiliar team mates will lead to stuff like that. | ||
Elroi
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JimmyJRaynor
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in the 2016 playoffs Lowry started off the playoffs going 8-50 from 3. Some how, the Raptors survived his garbage shooting and staggered into the Eastern Conference Finals playing 2 straight 7 games series. They ended up playing 20 games in 39 nights. | ||
cLutZ
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JimmyJRaynor
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https://streamable.com/fmex2 | ||
Jerubaal
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Twinkle Toes
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On April 14 2019 08:45 Elroi wrote: All that chemistry created by Ujiri out the window now? As a spurs fan I kind of like seeing Kawhi fail. My secret guilty pleasure. Nice round of early upsets so far | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 14 2019 11:16 Jerubaal wrote: What's the cheapest way to watch the playoffs? You mean in person? | ||
xDaunt
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KelianQatar
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Jerubaal
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No, on Internet/PS4. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Well Nick... how about when Lowry scores 0? | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
On April 14 2019 11:54 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Raptors coach , Nick Nurse said "we can win whether Lowry scores 4 or 34". Well Nick... how about when Lowry scores 0? Well, he's right. If Lowry scores 4, they win by 1. | ||
Jerubaal
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Twinkle Toes
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darthfoley
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cLutZ
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BerserkSword
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why u gotta get my hopes up like that | ||
Jerubaal
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BerserkSword
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On April 15 2019 09:12 Jerubaal wrote: I have to say I'm not super impressed by the basketball I'm seeing today. league has been slowly dying for years. the post Heatles era doesnt hold a candle to the prior eras that ive witnessed (90s and 2000s, heatles) | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On April 15 2019 09:29 BerserkSword wrote: league has been slowly dying for years. the post Heatles era doesnt hold a candle to the prior eras that ive witnessed (90s and 2000s, heatles) I think ratings on all 4 major networks are up.. attendance is up. NBA basketball is doing fine. The American sport that is slowly declining is baseball. The Yankees and Dodgers are doing great so the "no major markets are contenders" excuse doesn't hold water. Every pitcher throws at 98 MPH .. strikeouts have skyrocketed the last 10 years. It feels like every at bat is either a strikeout, a walk or a home run. ZZzzz.... Pitchers throwing no hitters are getting yanked in the 7th inning. Stolen bases are as low as when the league only had 24 teams. I think the NBA top brass have done a nice job keeping the entertainment level of the game very high. MLB top brass ... not so much. | ||
Jerubaal
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Maybe more people really do watch when there's greater parity. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Lebron's Lakers The plan was an abject failure, in part because the players they signed were not good. Rajon Rondo’s long-overrated defense was abysmal, Michael Beasley lasted only 26 games before heading back to China, and Lance Stephenson was better at creating air-guitar licks than coherent offense. On Friday, the Lakers parted ways with head coach Luke Walton, a fait accompli for whoever was or is running the organization. The names on the Lakers’ short list to replace Walton, according to multiple reports, should sound familiar: Mark Jackson, Monty Williams, and Tyronn Lue. Lue is described by ESPN as the “strong frontrunner.” The commonality among the three, besides previous head-coaching experience? They all have a relationship with James. And at the heart of it all is Lebron - the demanding composition of players that he needs to surround himself with in order to succeed, his often-disruptive desire to control his teams, and his now more than obvious decline TR | ||
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Jerubaal
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HeavenlyFaucet
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HeavenlyFaucet
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JimmyJRaynor
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the Nets bench smashed the 76ers. Carroll and Dinwiddie played the most minutes. Ed Davis was a +28.. nary a mention of any of these 3 guys. The best play by the Nets occurred when they had 2 point guards on the floor at the same time. The top notch ball movement 2 PGs facilitated really spread out the 76ers defense and created many wide open 3 point shots. Again, you wouldn't know it listening to these guys. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On April 15 2019 10:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: man, the Jazz are cheating hard to Harden's left side. I guess if it worked for George Hill a couple of weeks ago.. I think ratings on all 4 major networks are up.. attendance is up. NBA basketball is doing fine. The American sport that is slowly declining is baseball. The Yankees and Dodgers are doing great so the "no major markets are contenders" excuse doesn't hold water. Every pitcher throws at 98 MPH .. strikeouts have skyrocketed the last 10 years. It feels like every at bat is either a strikeout, a walk or a home run. ZZzzz.... Pitchers throwing no hitters are getting yanked in the 7th inning. Stolen bases are as low as when the league only had 24 teams. I think the NBA top brass have done a nice job keeping the entertainment level of the game very high. MLB top brass ... not so much. Your drunk if you think ratings are up. This was a disaster for the NBA ratings. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On April 15 2019 09:29 BerserkSword wrote: league has been slowly dying for years. the post Heatles era doesnt hold a candle to the prior eras that ive witnessed (90s and 2000s, heatles) here is what was happening as of 10 months ago. https://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sports-media-harvey-20180530-story.html The Knicks, Bulls ,and Lakers didn't make the playoffs last year either. Here is what's up in baseball. https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2018/06/07/espn-sunday-night-baseball-ratings-decline-2018-alex-rodriguez NBA improving for years.... MLB declining for years. | ||
KelianQatar
303 Posts
On April 14 2019 06:15 JimmyJRaynor wrote: It looks to me like Jumper's Knee in his left knee. That is a repetitive strain injury. That means "repetition" is what makes it worse. Practicing is all about repetition. So I don't think he can practice. ..... The brace that Embiid is pictured wearing isn't the type of brace used for Patellar tendinitis or jumper's knee. This brace is actually used for stability and support to ease arthritis pain or pain from a bone bruise. This is the brace used to mitigate pain/strain from Patellar tendinitis, commonly called "jumper's knee" You can see these are two completely different types of braces. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Joel Embiid with an elbow the Broad Street Bullies would be proud of... Demar Derozan.. move over.. you're yesterday's mid-range specialist. Boban Marjanovic is the modern efficient mid-range sniper. LOL. | ||
Jerubaal
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cLutZ
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Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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its definitely his left leg | ||
xDaunt
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Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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https://streamable.com/e1yu1 | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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ULTIMATE BASKETBALL PLAYER Durant has turned himself into a hybrid of every great player who came before him. He went from starting at shooting guard as a rookie to winning an NBA Finals MVP as a small-ball center, having tacked on at least 30 pounds of muscle to a once painfully skinny frame. Durant now combines the size of the NBA’s greatest big men with the all-around game of its best guards. He can do everything on a basketball court at a high level. He can create his own shot off the dribble and in the post, finish in traffic, run pick-and-rolls, shoot off movement from anywhere on the floor, move the ball and set up his teammates, rebound, protect the rim, and defend all five positions on the floor. He’s become the ultimate basketball player. It’s an incredible change from his days in college, when he mostly operated on instinct. Durant hasn’t just transformed physically over the past 13 years. His feel for the game has grown by leaps and bounds. He averaged only 1.3 assists per game at Texas. He rarely passed the ball and didn’t see the floor well. He was a lot more like Carmelo Anthony than LeBron. Durant could score at will from an early age. He had to learn how to leverage that ability to make his teammates better. He can now play as a legitimate point forward, and he’s orchestrated the Golden State offense for long stretches this season when Curry and Draymond Green have been injured. Now that the Lebron era has officially ended (it ended 6 years ago in 2014 when the Spurs humiliated Lebron in the finals, but without a clear new face of the NBA, it was not until 2016 when Durant toyed with him and made him look like an helpless old man in the YMCA gym that Durant definitely claimed the honor as the best player in the NBA), Durant basks alone in glory, with the NBA title and FMVP very easily withint his reach. He is alone in the top, until a Durant 2.0 comes along, and it looks like it's coming sooner than later. TR | ||
Jerubaal
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virpi
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+ Show Spoiler + GSW just blew a 31 pt lead. Williams and Harrell went off in the 2nd half. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Jerubaal
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cLutZ
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Jerubaal
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cLutZ
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On April 16 2019 16:25 Jerubaal wrote: I really liked Nice Guy Kevin and I know he's still in there somewhere. Not only is nice guy kevin more likeable (and marketable, bank that $$ baby), he probably would be a better player. Fake tuff guy KD seemingly intentionally picks up stupid fouls and techs while ideal KD should basically be Giannis who shoots 40% from 3 and 90% from the line. Lol. Fake toughness might be costing him top 10 player of all time status. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Cousins is getting an MRI today. "There's significant concern that DeMarcus Cousins has suffered a torn left quad, but there won't be complete certainty until his MRI on Tuesday, league sources tell ESPN. The hope is that it's just a strain." Woj tweet. | ||
TaKeTV
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JimmyJRaynor
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26538263/warriors-cousins-torn-quad-indefinitely | ||
darthfoley
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Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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Jerubaal
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Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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LeBron to produce boxing documentary series NEW YORK -- LeBron James is getting into the boxing business. James is an executive producer of "40 Days," a documentary series about the buildup to big fights that will debut with a focus on the middleweight unification bout between Canelo Alvarez and Daniel Jacobs. The series is a partnership between Uninterrupted, the platform founded by James and partner Maverick Carter, and DAZN, which will stream the May 4 fight in Las Vegas. The first episode will debut April 23 on Uninterrupted's channels and DAZN, then on Univision, NBC Sports Network and a group of regional sports networks that includes MSG. Carter says Wednesday that Uninterrupted has partnered with DAZN, which signed Alvarez to a contract worth at least $365 million, in hopes of reaching a "new audience of global boxing fans that want to see another side to these athletes that has yet to be shown." The title of the series is derived from the roughly five days of training for eight weeks to prepare for a fight. The second episode is set for April 30. E!SPN | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 16 2019 22:02 JimmyJRaynor wrote: FUCK that nasty | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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On April 16 2019 16:30 cLutZ wrote: Not only is nice guy kevin more likeable (and marketable, bank that $$ baby), he probably would be a better player. Fake tuff guy KD seemingly intentionally picks up stupid fouls and techs while ideal KD should basically be Giannis who shoots 40% from 3 and 90% from the line. Lol. Fake toughness might be costing him top 10 player of all time status. KD is in need of a really good PR team. This is a hot take, but with good campaign, he could be in the GOAT conversation at the end of his carrer, beyond lebron and even Kobe. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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3rd Eye Ky Has Arrived But because of Irving’s galaxy-brain public persona, it’s hard to resist reading the tea leaves behind his couture choices. The Celtics guard showed up to Sunday’s Game 1 against the Indiana Pacers wearing a Wales Bonner T-shirt (price: 150 pounds), and he changed back into it before he hopped onto the postgame podium at TD Garden to discuss Boston’s 84-74 victory. Black with red lettering, the shirt boasts several Dass bons mots from Be Here Now, including “But: You can’t hustle it. You can’t make-believe you’re calm when you’re not. It never works. Everybody knows. You know. It’s horrible” and “You must center inside yourself. And: Whatever your dance is, you’re doing it from that place.” After leaving an aging Lebron and all his toxicity in Cleveland, Kyrie was able to unleash his "stream-of-conscious mind" unto the world without any fear of backlash or scrutiny. He was free at last, no longer in the shadows of Lebron - the quintessential diva - and finally alone in the spotlight and eager to make his own mark. “We understand the position that we’re in,” Irving said. “There’s no time to really [dwell] on the mistakes that happened in the first half. At this point, it’s really just what’s the next thing we can [do to] impact the game? What’s the next thing that we gotta do to be more locked in? TR | ||
JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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There is some whining amongst Raptors fans that they got stuck with a 7 seed that is the hottest team in the NBA over the last 31 games. I think this is exactly what the Raptors need. This is a great opponent for a team with a starting line up that is still getting to know each other. A 6 game series would be good for the Raptors. Their 5 man unit starting line up has improved by leaps and bounds since it was briefly used in Mid-February in the middle of games when Gasol was coming off the bench. Al Pacino is really pissed off they are not using an Italian in the 21st Century re-boot of the Godfather. He can't believe they picked a Nigerian for the part. + Show Spoiler + | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 18 2019 01:34 JimmiC wrote: I think it is time to say that lillard > westbrook. It has long been that way. Even in Westbrooks MVP season, Lillard was the more important and meaningful player. That argument is like Jordan vs. Lebron. One is a straight up competitor going for the win each time, the other just masses on the stats. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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https://streamable.com/6jco9 + Show Spoiler + But he needs to go to NY. win, and get serious PR rehab and guidance the rest of his career | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Albert is a wonderful old man. I love NBA Jam just as much as the next guy. That said, can't society find something else for him to do ... anything other than being a colour commentator for NBA playoff games... | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
Damn, guess I should have kept watching the Bos-Ind game. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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https://milehighsports.com/malone-jokic-come-to-bartons-defense-after-being-booed-by-fans/ One of these US National media geniuses claimed the cheering for Lowry hitting his first free throw of the game was a "Bronx Cheer". So if they are cheering.. just label it boo-ing. | ||
cLutZ
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JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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On April 18 2019 13:09 cLutZ wrote: I dont get why the media aligns itself with players so often. You make an interesting point. I say they do it for the same reasons Jason Schreier always backs the front line employees at game studios. Scheier even backed that woman who got canned by ArenaNet. These "Journalists" get their "inside scoops" from the front line workers. They can't bite the hand that feeds them. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
On April 18 2019 13:09 cLutZ wrote: I dont get why the media aligns itself with players so often. Players are mostly stupid 20 year olds and most the player shills remain anonymous low paid wannabe Bomanis. If you align yourself with fans you can rise quickly even with little talent like Will Cain, or shape the entire sports media for a decade if you are talented like Skip Bayless. In cases like this, the media loves to be the moral judges of the peons. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On April 18 2019 13:33 JimmiC wrote: Wait did you just call skip bayless talented? WTF? Skip Bayless is insanely talented. He is often wrong. But he is insanely talented. On April 18 2019 14:12 Jerubaal wrote: In cases like this, the media loves to be the moral judges of the peons. Prolly. Ooops missed you JJR On April 18 2019 13:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote: You make an interesting point. I say they do it for the same reasons Jason Schreier always backs the front line employees at game studios. Scheier even backed that woman who got canned by ArenaNet. These "Journalists" get their "inside scoops" from the front line workers. They can't bite the hand that feeds them. That is plausible, but not all that believable for most "hot take artists" because they don't break news, simply react to it. In fact, the worst part of most programs is interviews with players & coaches. I fastforward through all player/coach interviews on any podcast I subscribe to. | ||
JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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Twinkle Toes
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On April 18 2019 13:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote: You make an interesting point. I say they do it for the same reasons Jason Schreier always backs the front line employees at game studios. Scheier even backed that woman who got canned by ArenaNet. These "Journalists" get their "inside scoops" from the front line workers. They can't bite the hand that feeds them. So wrong. There are only 2... maybe 3 in all of nba "journalists" who have actual scoops first hand from players and their group. The people we are talking about here such as Skip, Shannon, SAS, Nick Wrong, etc etc are not even within 6th degree of scoop from players, so thats not the reason why they slant so hard. Their case is one of controversy for relevance. Its all fluff for the sake of generating audience share with the same people who watch Kardashians and cry at Beyonce concerts. Its TMZ-culture corrupting sports media, and people like you and others nephews eat it all up with wide-eyed enthusiasm. In private, I doubt Skip and SAS actually believe half the garbage they spew. Its all theater, they only do it because it sells big time! Nick Wrong on the other hand is proper garbage. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 18 2019 14:12 Jerubaal wrote: In cases like this, the media loves to be the moral judges of the peons. Its not even about morality or any values. Its naked unadulterated lust for money. Like I said to JJ, these loudmouths are all winky wink on this. The best part about SAS and Shannon and Skip is that they are self-aware of the madness, whereas blowhards like Nick Wrong true morons. | ||
JimmiC
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I can't ever respect Skip though, him getting famous by making up Aikman is gay rumors is just something I cannot respect. It would be bad enough now, but to a Texas QB in the 90's, what an asshole. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:02 Twinkle Toes wrote: The people we are talking about here such as Skip, Shannon, SAS, Nick Wrong, etc etc are not even within 6th degree of scoop from players here is the original comment. On April 18 2019 13:09 cLutZ wrote: I dont get why the media aligns itself with players so often. Players are mostly stupid 20 year olds and most the player shills remain anonymous low paid wannabe Bomanis. If you align yourself with fans you can rise quickly even with little talent like Will Cain, or shape the entire sports media for a decade if you are talented like Skip Bayless. Its not clear from that comment the discussion is about the 4 guys in your list. any how, I'll narrow my comment down... The media who gets their knowledge from the immature, emotional, young front line employees leaking stuff ... don't bite the hand that feeds them. Thus, the information pipeline remains open. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 19 2019 23:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote: here is the original comment. Its not clear from that comment the discussion is about the 4 guys in your list. any how, I'll narrow my comment down... The media who gets their knowledge from the immature, emotional, young front line employees leaking stuff ... don't bite the hand that feeds them. Thus, the information pipeline remains open. Whch is like I said a wrong statement to make because 2 people is not the media, and the majority of them - the ones we are referring to, have no direct sources, so there is no hand-biting happening in this context, just controversy-mongering | ||
Twinkle Toes
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TLDR: Regular season vs. postseason performance: 1. Some methodology and formulas (peak, teammates, opponents - must watch so you know how he got to his conclusions) 2. Declined #3 David Robinson #2 James Harden #1 Stephen Curry 3. No difference - Kobe - Shaq - Tim - Lebron 4. Improved #5 IT (Detroit) #4 Hakeem #3 Havlicek (Special mention: Horry) #2 Regie Miller #1 Jordan | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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On April 19 2019 23:42 Twinkle Toes wrote: Whch is like I said a wrong statement to make because 2 people is not the media, and the majority of them - the ones we are referring to, have no direct sources, so there is no hand-biting happening in this context, just controversy-mongering nah, my post is fine. my post doesn't include any of the 4 guys you brought up. i don't need a source... its called logic. its not controversial... lots of sports coverage people are not objective. its only sports... its not that big of a deal if they are not objective and favour certain people. if you want to talk about those 4 guys. great. i'm not talking about them. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 20 2019 00:01 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i don't need a source... its called logic. LOLOLOL. You never disappoint JJ! Dont you ever change! | ||
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KelianQatar
303 Posts
On April 20 2019 00:14 Twinkle Toes wrote: Anyway, Ty Lue deal is almost done. Wow! Source? It looks like its just an interview to me. It does not look like Ty Lue's hiring is imminent. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:07 Twinkle Toes wrote: Its not even about morality or any values. Its naked unadulterated lust for money. Like I said to JJ, these loudmouths are all winky wink on this. The best part about SAS and Shannon and Skip is that they are self-aware of the madness, whereas blowhards like Nick Wrong true morons. The media has sided with the players over, say, management for a long time. The direct fan bashing is fairly recent and corresponds to broader media trends. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 20 2019 01:32 Jerubaal wrote: The media has sided with the players over, say, management for a long time. The direct fan bashing is fairly recent and corresponds to broader media trends. Maybe I'm misreading your post, but I don't see how it is related to my post at all. You said something about media as moral judges, to which I react that media could care less about being moral as its all about what sells. And then your comment above... LA is now on total news blackout, reporters are not even allowed. Coach Lue announcement incoming? | ||
JimmiC
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I would actually pee myself. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Twinkle Toes
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On April 20 2019 07:48 JimmiC wrote: Lebron traded back to the Cavs! I would actually pee myself. That would seriously break r/nba and all know sports media fora! I, personally, would celebrate that by streaking in Central Park the very morning after its announced! | ||
KelianQatar
303 Posts
Blake Murphy was right about Brothers favoring home teams. He gave Orlando so many calls tonight. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26562381/embiid-sore-knee-listed-doubtful-game-4 The Raptors, owned by MLSE, will be pitching to Kawhi Leonard what a great job their medical teams do when it comes to managing player health. Welp, another team owned by MLSE is having problems in that area. Sebastian Giovinco's old trainer got canned; TFC's other stars ain't happy about it. https://www.tsn.ca/altidore-sounds-off-on-trainer-departure-after-win-1.1293697 hopefully (Manning) can put his ego aside and I can get the guy that's kept me healthy, kept Michael (Bradley) healthy, kept a bunch of the guys healthy and we can make things move forward. The Raptors better hope this does not get back to Kawhi Leonard's management team. MLSE needs to fix this fast. | ||
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JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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The last time Denver won in San Antonio Nikola Jokic was shorter than Isaiah Thomas. | ||
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JimmiC
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Twinkle Toes
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https://twitter.com/chrisbhaynes/status/1120007779488419841?s=21 | ||
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JimmiC
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On April 22 2019 08:34 Twinkle Toes wrote: JimmiC how is that bet going about Kawhi in the playoffs? So far he is playing starter minutes every game with no rest days. So I guess he was smart to dodge the bet. Not smart enough to take back the claim mind you. | ||
KelianQatar
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On April 20 2019 00:14 Twinkle Toes wrote: Anyway, Ty Lue deal is almost done. Wow! is there a source for this or is it just BS? | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Terrence Ross was -25 today. Kudos to Masai Ujiri for getting more than a bag of hockey pucks and a ham sandwich for this guy. On April 22 2019 10:07 KelianQatar wrote: is there a source for this or is it just BS? i didn't see any one claim the Lue hiring was fait accompli. apparently the interview process is continuing. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26560005/sources-lakers-want-2nd-lue-williams-meetings?platform=amp&__twitter_impression=true | ||
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Big game for the Blazers today, they can take a strangle hold on probably the tightest or second tightest series. I'm more excited for round 2 mind you there should be some dynamite match ups. | ||
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On April 22 2019 11:39 JimmiC wrote: I long for the day when KelianQatar and JJR finally disagree, for so long have they been in such harmony. i guess you don't read the thread much. https://tl.net/forum/sports/544643-nba-playoffs-finals-2019?page=3#51 what is interesting is.. Embiid continues to publicly call it "knee tendonitis". LOL. Furthermore, my last post wasn't agreeing or disagreeing. She asked a question about the LA Lakers hiring Ty Lue and i answered it as best i could. As best as I can tell the LA Lakers are continuing the interview process and Ty Lue remains a candidate. Have you found a source that says Ty Lue is getting hired very soon by the Lakers? I have not found one. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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On April 22 2019 11:39 JimmiC wrote: I long for the day when KelianQatar and JJR finally disagree, On April 22 2019 13:09 JimmiC wrote: your link doesn't look like a disagreement. then you don't understand the post. it is a disagreement about the nature of Joel Embiid's knee injury. On April 22 2019 13:09 JimmiC wrote: More like two robots who love each other having a conversation. thanks for the laughs... it has nothing to do with the NBA though. speaking of the NBA , Michael Avenatti is accused of ripping off Hassan Whiteside for $1.5 million. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/439933-avenatti-accused-of-embezzling-15m-from-nba-player-hassan-whiteside-report | ||
JimmiC
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On March 27 2019 12:40 JimmiC wrote: Welcome new user to the thread. Why is this your opinion? And why are you voicing it? Could you perhaps give us your break down of the worst players for every team? Are you a raptors fan? What made you one? It is very interesting that a 3rd string player on the raptors is getting such hate from two sources out of blue. Did he do something that was noticeable? Interesting world we live in. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
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On April 22 2019 10:07 KelianQatar wrote: is there a source for this or is it just BS? Confirmation incoming. Btw, is your bet with JimmiC about Kawhi's rest still on? I think this is a good time to take him on that bet since hes sure bruised and banged now. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 22 2019 13:09 JimmiC wrote: I'm not looking for one, why would I. And your link doesn't look like a disagreement. More like two robots who love each other having a conversation. Holy shit only now did I realize that it was another person and not JJ. Honest mistake. Made me do some digging: - They post one after the other, literally, often echoing on the same topc. - They always agree with each other. - They have the same phrasing and writing style. - They have the same deepity-wooh tone, like when JJ always says hhmmm as a pseudo introspection to appreciate his own post, its funny really! And the other guy, whom I didnt even know existed until this thread, began hounding me four or five times already after I called out JJ on one of his numerous whack posts. I mean I am not jumping into conclusions but the circumstances warrant a closer look. I hate it personally, since my lifelong motto is live and let live, and I always see the goodness in people, even those as glariingly different and comical as JJ. I have come to enjoy his special contribution to the discussion as a flavor of tl/nba, and, despite all his flaws, I dont think JJ would stoop down to that level of pathetic and sad condition in life. Just thinking of him resorting to that is mentally debilitating, and I really hope JJ is not that stupid. Having said that, while JimmiC has the patience to still consider talking to you as a sane endeavor, Im just here to talk nba and enjoy some incidental comedy gold that you bless us all with here. Now, back to NBA: “I just feel that we have to be very careful as a league,” Kerr, a former TNT broadcaster, said of Westbrook’s approach and its potential spread. “We’re in a good place right now. Very popular. Fans love the game, the social dynamic, the fashion. But more than anything they love the connection they feel to the players. I think it’s important for the players to understand that it’s a key dynamic to this league. I don’t think this is a healthy dynamic, for this league, for any player, any team, any local media, any national media.” “It’s all part of the business,” Kerr said. “You’ve got to feed information to the fans. You don’t have to give a great answer, but it’s dangerous when you go down that path of no communication because one of the reasons people like the league right now is we have a lot of great players, really good guys who handle themselves well. So don’t kill that. You’ve got to keep that going. That’s a big part of the business.” “There’s always been this stuff. There’s always been players and media members having issues and maybe non-responses, whatever,” he said. “I don’t think this is brand new, but we’re in an era where there’s 24/7 access, and that access is what’s driven revenue so much and players need to remember that.” -Kerr The thing that drives me nuts with Westbrook is that, while being a douchebag is wrong in all context, he doesnt even have the slightest right to act so. He neither has the skills, the success, nor the personality. He is just a level-1 conceited asshole who thinks he is way better than he actually is. I hope the reporter fights back and asks him next game questions like: "Did you care more about winning or getting a triple double?" or the classic "Did you lose this game or did Portland win it?" Fuck Westbrook! User was temp banned for this post. | ||
JimmiC
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We wont have to deal with angry westbrook much longer lillard is.making sure of that. And I bet pg13 is wishing he had made a different choice about now! | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On April 22 2019 23:22 JimmiC wrote: No the bet was not on. Despite JJR being completly convinced that Kawhi would miss time for "load management" in the playoffs. And not that it was a fancy name for rest to make sure a player was ready for the playoffs. He was not willing to even risk a short sig bet, or admit that he could possibly be wrong, which makes sense since he never is. We wont have to deal with angry westbrook much longer lillard is.making sure of that. And I bet pg13 is wishing he had made a different choice about now! Like I said, JJ is special in this thread, and although I hate to admit it, itd be a sad place here without JJ. PG would be worse off with Lebron. At least he's getting the attention he deserves in OKC. And I disagree. Technically the bet is still on, and JJ would say the same if you ask him, although with a lot of complications. | ||
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@playoffs: Got up tonight to watch the games. Utah really put in the effort. The game also showed how helpless the Rockets become when Capela is off and the 3s don't fall. The 4th quarter basically was CP3 trying to fight the Jazz on his own. | ||
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KelianQatar
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On April 24 2019 00:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I wonder if someone on the Houston Rockets management team is going to leave after the playoffs are over. Interesting timing for promotions by the Rockets. https://twitter.com/MarcJSpearsESPN/status/1119323072899600384 It has been my experience that promotions can only happen when someone leaves. And it looks like the Rockets are preparing for Gersson Rosas to leave Texas. https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/03/gersson-rosas-houston-rockets-gm-wizards/ 17 years is a decent amount of time with 1 team, time to move on maybe? His name is being tossed around all over the the place. Maybe I will see him here in DC! This is why Stone and Witus are getting promoted. They're about to pick up the extra duties of Rosas when he vacates the position. Minnesota was granted permission to interview him. https://rocketswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/16/timberwolves-eyeing-rockets-vp-gersson-rosas-for-front-office-job/ | ||
JimmiC
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On April 24 2019 06:10 TropicalHaze wrote: Lol, JJ and Toes are like Westbrook & KD of this thread just dunno which is which. JJ has to be KD because of the multi accounts! 30 days seemed really over the top, but what are you gonna do. 3 possible close outs tonight I think Raps and 76rs will. Hopefully Portland too but I could see OKC taking another game, not sure that the series is gonna finish in 5, it feels like it could be 7. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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On April 24 2019 07:23 KelianQatar wrote: Minnesota was granted permission to interview him. Speaking of job interviews. It looks like the LA Lakers coach hiring process is still ongoing. They are interviewing Jason Kidd. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26587748/kidd-interviewed-lakers-vacancy-sources I think Jason Kidd should spend some time as an assistant coach before getting another head coaching job. Raptors Outdoor Viewing If TV cameras show a massive outdoor audience keep in mind the Toronto Maple Leafs have game 7 of an NHL playoff game being shown outdoors. We are probably going to see one of the biggest outdoor audiences ever, but it is not all because of the Raptors. You will probably see a lot of blue and white in the crowd as opposed to Raptors red and black. | ||
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On April 24 2019 07:45 Seeker wrote: The JimmyJRaynor has alt accounts conversation stops right here. This is the NBA thread. Discuss NBA. If you want to talk about JJR having alt accounts, then create a website feedback thread or PM me. Every infraction from this point on will be an immediate temp ban. Sounds good. Can we also make WWE discussion a temp ban in the NBA thread? | ||
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The final 4 in the Eastern Conference Is Decided. | ||
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On April 24 2019 14:28 ZenithM wrote: Dame is absolutely ridiculous. He balled out. There better not be a qiestion if hes an all star next year. Glad were getting close the second round. As usual in the nba the favs win. In east its almost always the top 4 in the west once and a while a 5 seed wins (NO mixed it up as the only 6 seed(or worse) in the last 5 years). Now its thunder dome time. Come on game 7's | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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twitter.com Unlike every other team in the NBA the Toronto Raptors get their own home broadcasting team covering the games. It will also be on TNT Saturday evening. Best Defenders During The Regular Season Last year, the NBA's All-defensive First Team and Second Team very closely lined up with best ESPN Defensive Real Plus Minus ratings for starters at each position. Last year, the 10 players on the 2 NBA All-Defensive teams were very good defenders. With that in mind, let's take a look at the starters with the best ESPN DRPM in 2019 on a position-by-position basis. Point Guard Chris Paul ( Hou ) , Derrick White ( SA ) , Kyle Lowry ( TOR ) , Marcus Smart ( BOS ) Shooting Guard Danny Green ( TOR ) , Jimmy Butler ( Phil ) , Victor Oladipo ( Ind ) , Garry Harris ( Den ) Small Forward Robert Covington ( Min ) , Paul George ( OKC ) , Kyle Anderson ( Mem ) Power Forward Draymond Green ( GS ) , Antetokounmpo ( Mil ) , Paul Millsap ( DEN ) , Derrick Favors ( UTA ) Center Rudy Gobert ( UTA ) , Anthony Davis ( NO ) , Nikola Vucevic ( ORL ) , Miles Turner ( IND ) , Brook Lopez ( MIL ) Source | ||
Jerubaal
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On April 24 2019 08:55 JimmiC wrote: Sounds good. Can we also make WWE discussion a temp ban in the NBA thread? I feel like this is targeted. On April 24 2019 22:31 JimmiC wrote: He balled out. There better not be a qiestion if hes an all star next year. Glad were getting close the second round. As usual in the nba the favs win. In east its almost always the top 4 in the west once and a while a 5 seed wins (NO mixed it up as the only 6 seed(or worse) in the last 5 years). Now its thunder dome time. Come on game 7's I realize I am extremely biased, but I feel like in all of the Den-SA games I've watched,there have been stretches of 5-6 plays where the refs absolutely hose the spurs. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. | ||
JimmiC
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I have not watched enough of the games tbh, between all the hockey and the raptors I've only been able to catch a few quarters of the spurs vs nuggets but I should catch the next 1 (maybe 2) | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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"... i'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse..." On April 25 2019 07:08 Jerubaal wrote: I realize I am extremely biased, but I feel like in all of the Den-SA games I've watched,there have been stretches of 5-6 plays where the refs absolutely hose the spurs. I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. The officials are not perfect and they miss stuff. Its an impossible game to officiate perfectly. There were problems in the Orlando//Toronto series as well. meh. i pretty much agree with Windhorst here. The whining, complaining and theatrics is getting over the top. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26585590/nba-action-fantastic-constant-griping | ||
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Ideally people on other threads will have no clue what you are talking about with your sig. If someone asks please pm me! And you are a honorable man, I probably would have forgotten. | ||
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On April 25 2019 11:12 JimmiC wrote: "I wouldnt let westbrook even smell my cheeseburger, but Dame can have the whole thing" Ideally people on other threads will have no clue what you are talking about with your sig. If someone asks please pm me! And you are a honorable man, I probably would have forgotten. TBH I had to go through my history to see which miscreant in this thread I made the bet with. | ||
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26604975/bucks-brogdon-first-2-games-vs-celtics For the first time in a long time ... Joel Embiid is not on the injury list. Mike Scott probably misses game 1 of the Raptors/Sixers series due to plantar fasciaitis. https://sixerswire.usatoday.com/2019/04/25/mike-scott-listed-on-injury-report-as-day-to-day-with-foot-ailments/ both Brogdon and Scott are dealing with fasciaitis. If anyone is wondering what Fascia is : it is a band or sheet of connective tissue, primarily collagen, beneath the skin that attaches, stabilizes, encloses, and separates muscles and other internal organs. The things that prevent you from sticking a small object right through the middle of your hand in between the bones .... is skin and fascia. | ||
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cLutZ
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On April 26 2019 12:51 Jerubaal wrote: A statement and a question, but I assume the statement will be accepted so I'm going to just launch into it: European players are better than American white guys. But why? Have you heard of the hockey study where hockey players borne at the beginning of the season cutoff in Canada (I think Jan 1) got into the NHL at much higher rates than those borne later in the year (like say Oct+). This is because of 2 things: When kids are really young the 6 month difference is often a significant difference in coordination, so those kids get more attention from coaches, and just as importantly learn to enjoy the game more. Then, at puberty, it also helps immensely making the team if you hit puberty first. One theory I've heard (and its decently supported by what I know) is that black Americans mature much more quickly than whites, physically. This advantage is even bigger than the hockey advantage (apparently), which means white guys aren't really ready to compete on even footing until age 22 or so. And by then they already didn't get to go to high level AAU, their team wasn't good in states, they didn't get a D1 scholarship, and have no hope of getting drafted. This theory is also somewhat supported by the fact that a lot of successful white American ball players come from suburbs where they are fairly protected from competition (at least for making the team). So that is the first theory that I've heard that makes sense. A second is that the basketball culture in America has been too baseball/football influenced, while EU ball is soccer influenced which helps much more in developing footwork, the idea of fluid positions, and court spacing. I think both ideas have a lot of merit. | ||
Jerubaal
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I think that would be a pretty difficult, but interesting, hypothesis to research. I think there is something to that general idea, though. My NBA height is 5'9'', but I loved playing in the post in high school because I lived in a heavily Hispanic area. When I moved Austin for college, I went, "welp, I guess I'm shooting threes now." | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Demar Derozan is having his best playoff series in his career. His defense is average for the 1st time ever and he is a very solidly above average contributor on offense. Murray's torn ACL allowed Derozan to blossom as a playmaker. He improved incrementally as a playmaker every year. The guy is evolving into a top 10 point guard. He is already a top 10 shooting guard. any how, Congratz to Derozan... it couldn't happen to a more classy guy. On March 18 2017 10:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: So the Raptors offense is fucking crap all night long with Joseph, Wright and Vanvleet running it. They finally make Derozan the point guard.. and surprise. surprise... they cut through the Pistons defense like a hot knife through butter. Between Joseph, Wright and Vanvleet i'm not sure who is Curly, which one is Larry.. and who is Moe. Just make Derozan the starting point guard and call it a day. I think I'll have to adjust Casey's Coaching rating down a bit seeing Derozan take off like this. | ||
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On April 26 2019 14:48 Jerubaal wrote: Aldridge, Derozan and Gay all having incredibly efficient nights. You dont read that every night! But when you do the spurs are hard to beat. Here is hoping for a great game 7. | ||
HeavenlyFaucet
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JimmyJRaynor
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"I think I am setting legal screens," he said. "If I'm not, somebody is going to let me know about it. I'm not really worried about it." After Game 2, Malone accused Poeltl of setting "really good moving screens." But, in the same session with reporters, Malone also praised Poeltl's intensity and challenged his team to match it. "Jakob Poeltl sets nice screens," Malone said. "He gets guys open. I'm jealous. Give him credit. He is out there putting wood on people, and we have to do the same. In the playoffs, it goes up a level, and you need that physicality." https://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/article/Spurs-Jakob-Poeltl-to-Nuggets-I-am-setting-13797818.php | ||
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Put a fork in the.clippers. Durrant is unstoppable I believe he is currently 14-22 including 6 of 12 from deep and he is a perfect 10 for 10 from the line. There is nothing the clips can do to stop him. | ||
cLutZ
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On April 27 2019 12:38 Jerubaal wrote: Prediction: Winner of east will come out of PHI-TOR. I think TOR is my fave right now. | ||
andrewlt
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On April 26 2019 13:20 Jerubaal wrote: Honestly, it's just the Former Eastern Bloc that's kicking everyone's ass: Jokic, Vucevic, Nurkic, Sabonis, Bogdanovic, Bjelica, Doncic, Pringles. Special shoutout to Marjanovic. We'll have to see where these guys are in a few years. There are currently two Bo*an Bogdanovic in the NBA. And to answer your question, basketball has been very popular in the former Soviet Bloc for a long time. When something is popular, enough talented people with ideal size will pick it up . Unless you are a country of midgets playing a height-advantaged sport like Filipinos. | ||
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Thompson and Curry had pretty minor ankle rolls. The problem might be the fast turn around time from Friday night to Sunday afternoon. | ||
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https://www.thescore.com/s/10197125 | ||
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4 minutes left and the 76ers have packed it in. | ||
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On April 28 2019 10:07 JimmiC wrote: HOLY SHIT Kawhi just made an INCREDIBLE block. I'll try to find a GIF or link to add that was a sick one on one block. https://www.thescore.com/s/10197125 That was big boi status | ||
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Maybe his uncle let him wear his pampers. I still have not seen any evidence that Giannis just isn't the worlds best rec league player. And Hubie really doesn't like him. XD | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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On April 29 2019 05:25 Jerubaal wrote: The fun thing about the East is that there are so many players that can bust out and have a good game. I think Milwaukee is the most vulnerable in this regard, though. They need Giannis to have a good game and they need someone else to step up, even if Brogdon plays. I thought they were supposed to be one of the best high-volume 3-pt shooting teams in the league. They are doing their version of the Cleveland/Houston strategy with Lebron/Harden and a bunch of 3-pt shooters. Caught a little bit of the game and they just weren't hitting anything. On April 29 2019 06:35 Jerubaal wrote: I feel like the Warriors are turning into the Spurs. They are just rather boring to me. Maybe it's just because we've watched them the last 4 years, though. I'm the opposite. I found them boring when they were doing the grind out post style of the 90s and early 2000s. I found them far more interesting with Popovich adjusting to the new rules. They were one of the first teams to emphasize ball movement and 3-pt shooting to counter zone defenses and take advantage of the new perimeter rules. Now that everybody is focusing on guarding the rim and the 3-pt line, they are pivoting to the mid-range because that's what defenses are giving up. The player market is discounting mid-range specialists and they are trying to take advantage of that to compensate for not having top star players. Also, it feels to me that Golden State is not very high up there now in terms of 3-pt attempts per game compared to the rest of the league. They launched their run gunning from 3 and it just seems they aren't making enough attempts anymore, especially with both Steph and Klay and Durant on the team. | ||
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He’s one of my favorites in sports, and an iconic NBA figure, so I can’t say I’m disappointed. | ||
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On April 30 2019 08:30 JimmiC wrote: I would think that every game time decision in the history of sports would be in the building right up to game time history of sports? you are over generalizing. when Maple Leaf Gardens was close to Sunnybrook Hospital players who were game time decisions would show up 30 minutes before the game after getting last minute treatment. Embiid has been in the building for at least 2 hours. | ||
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76rs takin it to the raps so far. Looks like we have a series! | ||
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On April 30 2019 09:46 JimmiC wrote: So those guys were in the building before the game. not 2 hours before the game. so it does provide some insight. Let me spell it out for you. If Embiid is at a hospital getting treated at 6:30 pm that is a bad sign for him playing the game. However, Embiid was in the building at that time as i posted. | ||
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But I'm pretty sure that game time decision players are almost always there when the rest of their team is there since the decision will be made at game time. | ||
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the big bench player for this game On April 30 2019 10:32 JimmiC wrote: Wait did I say that they all had to be there 2 hours before? cool. then your post is unrelated to mine. | ||
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On April 30 2019 11:06 JimmiC wrote: Nope it was exactly related to the words you wrote. I'm just trying to help you by letting you know that players are at the games whether they play or not when they are game time decisions. It does not give you any information. yes it does provide information. if Embiid is in the hospital he can't play. if he is in the building he may play. As I've stated earlier. | ||
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Butler with the dagger. | ||
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The Raptors bench has taken 20 shots in 2 games in non-garbage time. Its extremely difficult to be an efficient scorer when you only get 2 or 3 shots a game. Nurse needs to find a way to get more shot opportunities for his bench. i think Chris Paul's next "incidental contact" with any official is going to result in a suspension. http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26635759/cp3-fined-35k-not-suspended-ref-contact | ||
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On April 30 2019 11:33 Jerubaal wrote: Who is this TSN announcer who sounds like he's from Longbranch, NJ? Jack Armstrong.. he has won multiple Canada Screen Awards as an analyst. | ||
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On April 30 2019 11:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The Raptors need to let their bench players take a few shots. yes it does provide information. if Embiid is in the hospital he can't play. if he is in the building he may play. As I've stated earlier. If he is in the hospital he would not be a game time decision, he's be ruled out or questionable. It is actually there in the description! On April 30 2019 11:09 Jerubaal wrote: Imagine how far ahead Philly would be if they didn't have like 6 bafflingly horrible turnovers. But the raptors can't shoot so I think that evens it up! On April 30 2019 11:33 Jerubaal wrote: Who is this TSN announcer who sounds like he's from Longbranch, NJ? Jack Armstrong and he is really fun, he likes to have a few, very popular with the fans. His biggest catch phrase is on blocks "get that garbage outta here!" Pretty insightful and the right kind of favoritism without being to over the top you want out of your guy. | ||
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On April 30 2019 11:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Jack Armstrong.. he has won multiple Canada Screen Awards as an analyst. I guess strong NY/NJ accents are fairly familiar to Torontoans, at least. | ||
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On April 30 2019 11:38 JimmiC wrote: If he is in the hospital he would not be a game time decision, he's be ruled out or questionable. It is actually there in the description! i guess i have to spell it out in very minute detail. so here goes. no, he could travel from the hospital to the game. The later he remains in the hospital the lower the probability is he will play. On April 30 2019 11:41 Jerubaal wrote: I guess strong NY/NJ accents are fairly familiar to Torontoans, at least. We get a lot of western New York TV around Toronto. The ABC, NBC, CBS affiliates on our cable packages are all from western new york//buffalo. Generally speaking, Torontonians visit New York state a lot. There is lots of cool stuff to do in New York. | ||
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On April 30 2019 12:32 Jerubaal wrote: Poor Danny Green is trending. Sad times And no JJR you don't have to spell anything out for me, your just crazy as usual. User was warned for this post. | ||
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https://streamable.com/112wg Boston continues to fill the key with bodies. I think Milwaukee should consider allowing Bledsoe to carry the ball up the floor on more possessions this game. At least, Bledsoe can force 1 Celtics defender to come up to meet him. Hayward looks like a different player compared to how he played in November and December. | ||
andrewlt
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On April 30 2019 12:41 JimmiC wrote: Sad times And no JJR you don't have to spell anything out for me, your just crazy as usual. User was warned for this post. I read the red text as three free throws for James Harden. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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I think George Hill just earned a higher spot in the rotation than Sterling Brown. Brown is a -30 in less than 30 minutes. He looks 2 steps behind in every defensive action the Bucks execute. He looks lost. How exactly is Milwaukee going to ease Brogdon back into their line up? its probably going to take at least 10 days for him to get back to what he was... maybe longer. | ||
cLutZ
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JimmyJRaynor
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The cornea is inert.. its sort of like your fingernails. | ||
JimmiC
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On May 01 2019 13:17 cLutZ wrote: So, the Dubs doing a thing in the 3rd, and it's good stuff by them, but also about passing accuracy by Houston. Not only are they having turnovers all game, they have had a ton of times where they successfully broke down the defense and had Golden State chasing. They converted almost none of them because of shitty passing, every time its a bit low, high, or wide and the shooter can't get up a shot in rythem. Do you think this is the "real NBA finals" as some have said? And do you think that Hou cam do it? Like is the passing accuracy correctable or is it good d + skill level and GSW will just keep cruising? | ||
cLutZ
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On May 01 2019 13:34 JimmiC wrote: Do you think this is the "real NBA finals" as some have said? And do you think that Hou cam do it? Like is the passing accuracy correctable or is it good d + skill level and GSW will just keep cruising? On #1, IDK. On #2 Houston is probably too ref-reliant. The passing is obviously correctable because I've never seen them be so bad as they were in the third quarter. They should have won that quarter by 15 based on what Harden. Gordon, and CP3 were doing off the dribble, its just they were off by a small amount that led to almost 0 rhythm threes from drive and kicks. They only won the quarter because the Refs willed them to it. Edit. On Houston and reffing. Their report to the league is some obvious bs. The league could turn it around on them super easily just by looking at 3 things: Pushoffs (Harden like 5 per quarter), Travels (same), and holding offball offensive players running off screens (CP3 doesn't make it past minute 3). Indeed, if the NBA just clarified that CP3 and Harden commit offensive fouls before almost every instance I've seen of their favorite 3PT closeout foul, it would swing from Rockets -18 to like Rockets +18. Hell, this was the Pre-Durant Warriors problem as well. Curry got bullied a lot more in the playoffs, particularly off ball (this still happens a lot, I don't care much about it, but its obviously true). Part of the Moreyball idea of basketball is a fundamental misconception of what fans like to see. Fans prefer the playoff basketball because it does not revolve around foul calls and lazy defense. They like when good offense beats good defense, fair & square. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26643701/harden-barely-see-injury-eyes it appeared he was sensitive to bright lights. if there is corneal damage he'll be dealing with it the rest of the playoffs. I think its over for Houston. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Good call to whoever had that theory...I`m too lazy to look it up. So, I guess Gersson Rosas inherits the mess in Minnesota. Seeing as Jeff Teague is in the last year of his deal.. how about Andrew Wiggins for John Wall? | ||
JimmiC
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I got Portland tonight to even it up. What do you guys think? | ||
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I don't know if anyone caught the Portland vs Den game but it was awesome and intense I sure hope it goes 7. Craig is a Warrior his Nose got messed up and he came back with the mask both nostrils filled and got a RB then drained a three. Then at the end Jokic shoved a dude who ran right into Craig and he started leaking again. Game 3 is going to be even crazier. | ||
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Jerubaal
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I chose to support Democracy, Freedom and Human rights, @nuggets take control of your fans. | ||
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virpi
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Jerubaal
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All I know is that both the winning and losing side (fans) will be smoking up after the game. | ||
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JimmiC
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Unreal. | ||
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JimmiC
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+ Show Spoiler + fuck space jam two. They are going to fuck it up so hard =-( | ||
ZenithM
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Durant IS the best player on the Warriors, blogbois be damned. | ||
JimmiC
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Do you think Curry is just having off shooting or do you think it is the finger dislocation that got popped back in? The main reason I ask is if it is the finger it is going to bother him for a while. | ||
darthfoley
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On May 06 2019 00:41 JimmiC wrote: He is no doubt the best scorer and able to create himself. Also a way more impactful defender because of his length and quickness. Do you think Curry is just having off shooting or do you think it is the finger dislocation that got popped back in? The main reason I ask is if it is the finger it is going to bother him for a while. All I know is that Steph Curry has more injury excuses for bad play than anyone I know. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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"Canada is soft" LOL. He is right. For some things soft is good though. | ||
JimmiC
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On May 06 2019 02:31 darthfoley wrote: All I know is that Steph Curry has more injury excuses for bad play than anyone I know. That is true, but this one has video of the finger out of place. But then agai that is not that uncommon in basketball. Hell of a game today raps vs 6rs. Glad the first 3 were all blow outs. Best of three now looks like a dog fight. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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KelianQatar
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other than Leonard it feels like the Raptors are shooting 20% from 3 | ||
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KOFgokuon
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JimmyJRaynor
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Other than Leonard... these guys can't put the ball in Lake Ontario. They can't shoot. That doesn't mean they are "soft" though. | ||
JimmiC
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On May 06 2019 23:18 bluzi wrote: Finally we have a competitive East again !!! let`s GO EAST !!!! Exactly, competitive series and because they are all good, not exually bad. | ||
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On May 07 2019 12:28 Jerubaal wrote: This is boring as fuck basketball. The por vs den is the one to watch no doubt! Ill be cheering for who ever wins there not matter who wins in hou vs gsw. | ||
JimmiC
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On May 07 2019 12:46 darthfoley wrote: Steph Curry having another virtuoso game. 2-9 from 3, 9-19 overall Klay didnt show up tonight. Bump in th road or is this finally it for GSW? | ||
darthfoley
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On May 07 2019 13:51 JimmiC wrote: Klay didnt show up tonight. Bump in th road or is this finally it for GSW? Yea Klay hasn’t been good this series. But he kinda gets away with it in a way because everyone focuses on Steph and KD so much. I’m reeeeeally hoping it’s the end of the Warriors. Their frontrunning from steph in particular is really tiring at this point. Plus I would love to see KD in the east. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/76ers-joel-embiid-probable-game-5-ongoing-illness/ Brett Brown didn't exactly offer a ringing endorsement of Embiid at the game 4 post game presser. Stuff like "i would assume that is what was going on during the national anthem but i do not know for sure". While Joel Embiid's illness remains a mystery and a source of speculation ... i can certainly say i'm getting sick of it. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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imagine if the Raptors start getting sick... Some pretty cool Toronto Street Art | ||
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Given age and so on if you were starting a team right now and could pick anyone in the league I think he would be in the top 5 and arguments for being in the top 3 could be made. Pretty damn impressive. | ||
cLutZ
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Its not everyone, but does seem like there is a significant part of the NBA community that is threatened anytime a non-black player gets attention. Like how much they all hated Jeremy Lin. | ||
JimmiC
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I'm a huge Jokic fan he might be my second pick after The Greek freak and at the very least in the conversation with Davis maybe towns, still probably Durrant even given the ages. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2019/04/01/quick-reaction-magic-109-raptors-121/ "Lin didn’t get much of a chance to make a mark, but do you truly blame Nurse for that? Lin’s looked like a non-NBA player for the majority of his Raptors tenure. Tonight wasn’t much different. He didn’t negatively stand out, but was almost a ghost — having little to no impact on the game itself. Ugh." The general consensus amongst people who cover the raptors day-2-day is that Jeremy Lin is playing himself out of the league. I rank him as the #6 guard on the team behind Mccaw. There was some hype by national media people when Lin arrived. Had their been no hype at all and he quietly arrived we probably wouldn't be getting pictures like this... But when you hype something... anything... and it sucks... there will be blow back. I think the picture is kinda funny. hell, Vlady Junior is already starting to catch some hate here. Is it because Torontonians hate Dominicans? c'mon man....let's be real. After all the sabre rattling by his agent and complaining about him not getting called up... he gets here and has an OBP under .250 | ||
JimmiC
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I agree with clutz it is odd for people to have hate for him, people should be celebrating a undrafted player for still being around not for not being the super start no one thought he would ever be. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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If a guy like Vlady Jr. can catch hate in Toronto... so can Lin. I'd say the hate for Vlady Jr. is 10X what it is for Lin. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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On May 09 2019 04:45 JimmiC wrote: The raptors management disagrees that is why they traded for him. no trade. he was bought out by Atlanta and the Raptors signed him for the pro rated league minimum. https://www.nba.com/article/2019/02/11/report-hawks-buy-out-jeremy-lin https://www.spotrac.com/nba/toronto-raptors/cap/ I believe the signing of Lin and the flurry of transactions around the signing allowed the Raptors to save ~$10M in luxury tax. I'd have to do more research to get the exact #. I'd say the main reason Lin and Vlady Junior are catching the disdain of fans is they are not playing well. On May 09 2019 04:37 JimmiC wrote: He's a 30 year old over achiever with some name recognition due to a surprisingly good short run with knicks 7 years ago. as we know from previous discussions point guards usually don't decline until after they are 30. two years ago Lin had a solid season. I'd say people in Toronto were expecting Lin to return to the form he had 2 years ago. That has not happened and people are angry about it. meh. | ||
JimmiC
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The Vlady thing is not even at all similar, which is part of the point. Vlad Jr. is the most hyped prospect in BBall. Lin was a undrafted free agent with a moment in the sun about 7 years ago who carved himself a back up roll and now after injury and times is a veteran presence who could step in if there is injury. A better comparison would be if you were a GSW fan complaining about Bogut, or bucks fan calling Gasol a bust for not getting minutes. It is nonsensical. | ||
Elroi
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On May 06 2019 23:55 JimmyJRaynor wrote: National US NBA "analysts" Broussard and Cowherd say the Raptors are "soft". Meanwhile they surrender the fewest # of points per game and have the lowest FG% against of all teams in the playoffs. Other than Leonard... these guys can't put the ball in Lake Ontario. They can't shoot. That doesn't mean they are "soft" though. I think they meant soft mentally. Some of the raptors games you can clearly see that they are playing below their level. Lowry and Siakam have looked really streaky when I have been watching for example. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Lowry is the QB of Toronto's defense. He is of limited natural athletic ability. That is why he was selected 24th overall in the weak 2006 draft class when he was going to enter his 3rd year of college. If Lowry were mentally weak someone QB Toronto's defense. Despite his athletic and size limitations Lowry is the QB of the best defense in the 2019 playoffs. He probably leads the playoffs in charges taken. Mental and physical toughness are a big part of Lowry's game.. it certainly isn't his size or natural athletic gifts that have made him a 5 time all-star. Check out the drafting of the other PGs still left in the playoffs... Bledsoe, Irving, Curry, Harden etc. They are way more naturally talented than Lowry and its indicated in how early they were drafted. All Lowry has going for him is mental and physical toughness. The only guys who complain about Lowry being soft are these "analysts" who watch him once a week a few times a year. If Blake Murphy called Lowry mentally weak he'd get laughed off The Athletic writing team. | ||
JimmiC
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On April 22 2019 10:07 KelianQatar wrote: is there a source for this or is it just BS? Looks like TT was onto something. Apparently the lakers offered Lue 3 years same is Lebron (it strikes me as funny that they want a lebron wisperer or something.) But Lue wanted 5 years. I guess we will see if this is a good move by Lue or not long term. 18 mil would be hard for me to turn down!. Report: Lue ends negotiations with Lakers, declines 3-year contract https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1759934 | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Do the Lakers even do anything privately?? it feels like if the assistant equipment manager's girlfriend is thinking of breaking up with him it'll somehow end up getting reported someplace. KUDOS to Tracy Mcgrady who correctly figured out Paul George was playing with a torn labrum. That is a tough injury from which to recover. https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-injury-updates-thunder-stars-russell-westbrook-finger-knee-paul-george-shoulder-both-undergo-offseason-surgery/ | ||
JimmiC
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Second KQ asked if it was just BS, and a source. Since TT got banned and was unable to post it I thought KQ might be interested that it wasnt. Also considering it is the playoffs and teams not playing have no immédiate need for a coaxh it makes sense it took this long. It is rather surprising that both drew their line in the sand. You would think they could compromise at 4 or something. Or that one would bend. Clearly this was more than just some rumor TT made up, which was it appeared KQ was insinuating. | ||
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On May 09 2019 09:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote: 6 foot tall guys have to be mentally tough to survive in the NBA. 6 foot tall guys who are also good defenders the way Lowry is... have to been even more mentally tough to always tangle with guys bigger and stronger than them. Lowry is the QB of Toronto's defense. He is of limited natural athletic ability. That is why he was selected 24th overall in the weak 2006 draft class when he was going to enter his 3rd year of college. If Lowry were mentally weak someone QB Toronto's defense. Despite his athletic and size limitations Lowry is the QB of the best defense in the 2019 playoffs. He probably leads the playoffs in charges taken. Mental and physical toughness are a big part of Lowry's game.. it certainly isn't his size or natural athletic gifts that have made him a 5 time all-star. Check out the drafting of the other PGs still left in the playoffs... Bledsoe, Irving, Curry, Harden etc. They are way more naturally talented than Lowry and its indicated in how early they were drafted. All Lowry has going for him is mental and physical toughness. The only guys who complain about Lowry being soft are these "analysts" who watch him once a week a few times a year. If Blake Murphy called Lowry mentally weak he'd get laughed off The Athletic writing team. While I would call Lowry anything but soft. He dropped in the draft because of his height shot and attitude not his athleticism. Don't sell him short, he was super fast, strong and had pretty good hops. And it is not like he was late bloomer, AAU since age 11 and a 5 star recruit. "A short, but exceptionally athletic point guard who creates all kinds of problems with his excellent speed and quickness. Built and moves like an NFL running back. Extremely quick to take the corner off the dribble. Capable of playing above the rim, which is quite an accomplishment for a player his height. Very good at drawing defenders with his driving ability. Can cause all sorts of problems for his matchup by using his physical tools defensively. Not the most efficient perimeter scorer, which has limited him early in his NBA career. Has become a more efficient player on the whole since entering the League. Spent only two seasons at Villanova, one of which was shortened by an ACL injury. Physical tools and toughness made him a first round pick. Brings some things to the table as a back-up, but still has a ways to go as an all-around player. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyle-Lowry-608/ ©DraftExpress" He hasn’t hired an agent yet so he can still pull of the draft. Averaged 11.0 PPG, 4.3 RPG and 3.7 APG this year. A good defender, recorded 2.3 steals. Athletic, has quick feet and plays with intensity. Shooting has improved this year (.466 FG% compared to .421 the previous year), which is one reason why his draft stock has been improving as the year progressed. Show good floor leadership. Strong upper body and is not afraid to play physical. http://www.mynbadraft.com/NBA-Draft-Profiles-2006/Kyle-Lowry https://www.nbadraft.net/players/kyle-lowry https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2004/kyle-lowry-27609 | ||
JimmiC
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On May 09 2019 10:37 Jerubaal wrote: He's determined to go out shooting. I wonder if Hayward will regain his form over the next year or if that's it for him. I'm hoping he is like Paul George and makes a full recovery. I think PG13 first year back was bit down (not as dramatically as Hayward's)and now he is better than ever. There is hope, but I'm sure Ainge is having buys remorse! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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i kind of feel sorry for Kyrie. poor guy. if Boston is eliminated tonight i'll watch a short eric dubay video during halftime of the Rockets//Warriors game to memorialize Kyrie's difficult season in boston. On May 09 2019 10:44 JimmiC wrote: Has become a more efficient player on the whole since entering the League. Spent only two seasons at Villanova, one of which was shortened by an ACL injury. Physical tools and toughness made him a first round pick. you make some good points. that said, i was comparing Lowry to the other PGs still remaining in the playoffs.. not to the back up PG playing for say... Atlanta. If he had the kind of athletic talent guys like Harden, Bledsoe Irving, or Steph Curry have he would've been chosen way higher after playing only 1 year of college. When you are as elite and as big as the guys i listed they ignore your attitude. but u made some good points. | ||
JimmiC
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I do think it was the shooting more than the athletic talent as well as size, but Bledsoe is the same height, Kyrie and Steph are a couple inches taller but both much skinnier. No doubt he has out preformed his draft status in a big way since joining the Raptors and had started to figure it out with the Rockets. But he wasn't thought of much in Memphis. I mean they trade him away for an aging Skip to my lou Rafer Alston! I think all the picks after the top 5 in most drafts but for sure after the lottery are kind of crap shoot. I'm not sure that being drafted 18 compared to 24 is a big deal. He would be one of the best stories in the playoffs out preforming his draft slot if Jokic was not killin it. 41st pick over all in, the second round! In basketball it rare to get a superstar out of the lottery not to mention the second round. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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+ Show Spoiler + On May 09 2019 04:59 JimmiC wrote: Lin is not catching the disdain of general fans, most people don't even notice him. the 'general fan' that lives where? i know you've discussed examining the IP address associated with my posts. Welp, this post's IP address is less than 20 minutes from Hoops Bar & Grill, Gretzky's , and the Loose Moose. These are amongst the 3 best places in the city to watch the Raptors. During Lin's 20+ game stretch with the Raptors I've been to these places and the casual and hardcore raptors fans are dissatisfied with his performance. To summarize their views... their view is ... he is pretty much a running joke. Tune in to the Toronto radio stations that cover the Raptors and listen to how Lin is discussed on Tim&Sid, Prime Time Sports and Raptors rap. the universally held view is that he was given ample opportunities throughout the regular season to earn a spot in the playoff rotation and he failed miserably. Now that the playoffs are under way Lin is forgotten. During the last month of the regular season all i ever heard from any raptor fan was "they better not give Lin any meaningful minutes in the playoffs". My comments about Lin are congruent with the general view of Lin by Raptors fans ranging from casual to hardcore living in teh Greater Toronto Area. | ||
JimmiC
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+ Show Spoiler + I've not discussed examining the IP addresses it is very easy to change your IP addresses so it really does not make sense to check. And frankly I made the feedback thread because a mod asked me too, and as I mentioned I find it hilarious how in step you two are and how even though you are two different people... you answer the posts sent to KQ as if it is you. You are the one that keeps bringing up, I just put it out there and let the poll and other users do the talking. The Mods ruled you are different people and so I have to take their word for it and are treating the accounts like they are different people. It would be nice if you did as well, because it is creepy as hell when you answer for someone else over and over. Also, It is not my fault that you keep getting brought up in these dog whistle racism situations on this thread or others. It might be worth taking a look in the mirror instead of coming at me. If you bring up the account situation again I'll be forced to report you as the mods don't want it discussed here. If people cared about Lin going into the playoffs they were either filling air time on a dead day or do not understand playoff basketball. Lin at his very best was going to be the 9th man, 9th men don't matter in the playoffs unless it is not close, in which case they still do not matter because it is not meaningful minutes. He was brought in case of injury, perhaps for leadership or knowledge of the teams or whatever reason he was brought in. It was not to play meaningful minutes. Clearly the management team, which is one of the best in the league though he could provide value. Who are you to argue? And as for your interactions with people, I'm going to trust my own over yours, for many reasons. Also most of the shows you brought up are air'd nationally and the Raps are more or less the "hometown" team if everyone in Canada. I've yet to hear a fan bring up Lin. This is why I agree with Clutz. Really your issue should be with him not me. | ||
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On May 10 2019 03:12 Jerubaal wrote: It's strange who catches flak and who doesn't. There are 30 worst players on every team. Some are virtually anonymous while some turn into the White Mamba. Probably even more than that, like 150 or even. Almost no team plays more than 10 players with any sort of regularity really more but 150 is safe. No one really talks about them except the few that get hate and the few that love. | ||
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On May 10 2019 03:20 JimmiC wrote: Probably even more than that, like 150 or even. Almost no team plays more than 10 players with any sort of regularity really more but 150 is safe. No one really talks about them except the few that get hate and the few that love. Which makes it even dumber to rag on players who get regular playing time. Tyler Hansborough was not actually the worst player of all time. | ||
JimmiC
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On May 10 2019 14:06 Jerubaal wrote: Which makes it even dumber to rag on players who get regular playing time. Tyler Hansborough was not actually the worst player of all time. Exactly people get called "the worst" or "terrible" because they don't live up to expectations not because it is true. They can be based on College performance based expectations, draft slot based expectations or Contract expectations. 24/7 sports talk can make it worse because they are looking for eyes and ears not making sense, and it is far more interesting to the casual to hear that someone is the worst I guess. This is why if Raps fans as a group were hating on Lin it would be so strange, he was undrafted, is on a prorated minimum and was brought it to be the 3rd pg at best. I know he had some success a while ago but he wasn't even getting 20 mins with the terrible hawks, or playing well for them. This is why I think Clutz might be onto something. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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anyhow, this is pretty hilarious | ||
JimmiC
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It wasn't someone it was me and basically every report on the trade that the was going to be his roll. As you your second sentence it is flat out wrong. Powel and Mccaw may be getting more minutes but not at PG garbage time or not. The top lineup that does not have Lowry or FVV in it is Meeks, line, moreland, miller and McCaw for a grand total of 12 mins. Which is very likely garbage time. And the first lineup that doesn't have FVV lowry or Lin is.... drum roll please..... is Meeks Moreland Powell Miller and Mccaw for a grand total of 2 mins the entire playoffs and also likely garbage time. So it would be accurate to say that no one other than Lowry or FVV is playing PG for the raps in meaningful minutes in playoffs. What is more strange is why you care so much about this to keep bringing it up, treating your opinion like fact when you can just look up the lineups, minutes and so on. https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612761 | ||
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ZenithM
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Also Rockets basketball is not fun to watch even when it works. I play a lot of NBA 2K and it's almost exactly how meta 5v5 teams play :D. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=34&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=72&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=pts_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&order_by=ws As much as Paul declined in this year's playoffs ... it is highly unlikely he will come any where near the level of play he had from age 30 to 32. If he follows the trend of every other player his size he will continue to decline again next year. The Chris Paul deal is a bad contract for the Houston Rockets. It is a "poison pill" so to speak. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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On May 11 2019 21:45 KOFgokuon wrote: Everyone knew this chris Paul extension was a huge mistake but they kinda were forced into it. Shrug There was a guy on here saying players that are under 6'2" don't start declining at some "magical age". The historical data indicates otherwise. Now that its over we can say this: as has happened with every other small player in the history of the NBA Chris Paul's performance declined substantially at age 33 and 34. Lowry is in a similar position as Paul. His performance has also declined substantially. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
I mean this is what makes the GSW so damn scary even right now is Harden better than Curry? Is Paul better than Klay? Is Capela better than Draymond? They have 3 possible Max players while missing 1 for sure max and another possible one in Boogie. I do like your resilience in going back to that theory. The first time it game what was about how bad the Lowry and other signings were and how George Hill was the best signing. Now props to George Hill for a couple of decent games off the bench for the bucks last series. But come-on man. I mean everyone declines, and almost every player who is good gets overpaid at the end of their career, which is sort of a circle of life because they are always "under paid" at the start. Hou not winning is OK in my book because I agree with Zenith I do not enjoy watching them play. That Den vs Por series is SUCH A BETTER watch. I'll be cheering hard for either of those teams to take them down and if they cannot I'll be cheering for who ever comes out of the east (likely the Greek Freak). The Bonus of a super team, when they have shown cracks in the armor is it is fun to cheer against them! | ||
andrewlt
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JimmyJRaynor
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http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26723733/vogel-agrees-coach-lakers-sources-say | ||
JimmiC
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The question is if the mishandling of this search will it damage their attempt at signing a major FA. If this year taught us anything it is that Lebron can not carry the lakers. Is it his age or being in the west or both? The Lakers still have LA but I believe based on ownership and talent the clippers are more attractive. Im not sure being in Lebrons shadow was ever that attractive but now that it is proven that he cant do kt alone. My bold prediction is they miss out on the top tier and have to take that second tier of eother not quite as good or riskier like Boogie. Report: Lakers players embarrassed by team's handling of coaching search https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1766935 | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On May 12 2019 08:43 JimmiC wrote: Indeed the article I posted a couple of days said as much, and you commented on it, a bunch. The question is if the mishandling of this search will it damage their attempt at signing a major FA. If this year taught us anything it is that Lebron can not carry the lakers. Is it his age or being in the west or both? The Lakers still have LA but I believe based on ownership and talent the clippers are more attractive. Im not sure being in Lebrons shadow was ever that attractive but now that it is proven that he cant do kt alone. My bold prediction is they miss out on the top tier and have to take that second tier of eother not quite as good or riskier like Boogie. Report: Lakers players embarrassed by team's handling of coaching search https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1766935 i dunno how u can say he cant carry the lakers, he was injured for 17 games and probably wasnt right the rest of the way. if u say that an injured, not 100% lebron james cant carry the lakers, id agree with u there because that's all we got to see. btw the cp3 kicking curry off the court story just makes it that much better that the rockets are out of the playoffs. classless player and classless organization. | ||
JimmiC
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On a different note and those second tier of free agents what is people thoughts of Rozier? Think he can be a impact starter? Put up big numbers on a bad team? Going to grow into a all star? | ||
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Jerubaal
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JimmiC
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On May 12 2019 13:59 Jerubaal wrote: Why would Kyrie want to go back to Lebron? They clearly didn't get along. He realizes hes Robin and wants make movies LA which James will bankroll in with his production to lure him. Or whatever is most dramatic possible reason. | ||
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zev318
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On May 12 2019 13:59 Jerubaal wrote: Why would Kyrie want to go back to Lebron? They clearly didn't get along. didnt they make up after irving called to apologize in jan? wow its amazing that they put raptors game last, nba always love to put raptors game at a bullshit time like noon/3pm on a sunday | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Greatest Basketball Tickets Scene Ever... + Show Spoiler + On May 12 2019 22:38 zev318 wrote: wow its amazing that they put raptors game last, nba always love to put raptors game at a bullshit time like noon/3pm on a sunday Tim Lewieke put a stop to that. Everyone in Canada could watch the game. It wouldn't add 1 viewer to the TNT/ESPN/ABC ratings. That is why they put the Raptors on during lousy times. When the Raptors are in a playoff game its a 1 city game for the national us broadcaster. | ||
andrewlt
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KelianQatar
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JimmiC
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Now the GSW Im all in cheering for blazers. | ||
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Lowry's left hand is fucked.. he needs to get out of the game. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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https://streamable.com/m593a | ||
kidleaderr
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Jerubaal
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PHI: We followed a multiyear plan involving tanking, smart FA decisions and requiring a lot of sacrifice. TOR: Our FO still thinks it's the 90s and selects players accordingly, but, luckily, a star player on another team threw a bitch-fit because his uncle wants him to play in LA. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
I disagree with almost your entire post Jerubaal xD TO continuously tried to win and took the best they could when they could and developed a lot of talent than struck when they could in trades. PHI got so incredibly bad they discussed and made some rule changes. They ended up having so many high picks even with bad drafting and questionable trades they ended up with some talent. And they be entering another minor rebuild depending on Butler, Harris and Reddick. | ||
andrewlt
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JimmiC
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But then the sixers fired that front office. Probably partly do to howmuch they turned off the fan base, and impatience. There is no worse sport to watch or entertainment value than tanking teams, it is the anti game 7. | ||
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JimmiC
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On May 13 2019 12:37 Jerubaal wrote: So they did the best they could and...ended up with Kyle Lowry and Demar DeRozan? And would have gone into the playoffs with those same players if they hadn't been gifted with a bad situation. And if Embids knee never healed, or him or Simmons leave after their rookie deals because they don't think it can happen there, or they want LA or whatever. You are not talking about simming a few seasons. You have to live through that, it is overall bad for basketball. I want way more drastic lottery changes to stop people thinking it is a good idea. Cheering for your team to lose is shitty. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
On May 13 2019 12:32 JimmiC wrote: Yes, cold a calculated. But then the sixers fired that front office. Probably partly do to howmuch they turned off the fan base, and impatience. There is no worse sport to watch or entertainment value than tanking teams, it is the anti game 7. Nope. The hardcore fans were accepting of the process and a large part of the fanbase was grudgingly accepting of it. However, accepting doesn't mean they were watching the process while it was going on. Philly is one of the largest media markets in the US and the other owners pressured the Sixers into hiring Colangelo as a counterweight to Hinkie. Hinkie resigned soon after. On May 13 2019 12:37 Jerubaal wrote: So they did the best they could and...ended up with Kyle Lowry and Demar DeRozan? And would have gone into the playoffs with those same players if they hadn't been gifted with a bad situation. That's all you could do without tanking for a long time. Get incrementally better through trades. Have enough trade pieces in reserve in case a superstar wants a change of cities. Try to strike gold late in the draft with players like Siakam. It's the same playbook Morey used to get Harden and CP3. It's how Ainge built the current Celtics. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On May 13 2019 14:10 andrewlt wrote: Nope. The hardcore fans were accepting of the process and a large part of the fanbase was grudgingly accepting of it. However, accepting doesn't mean they were watching the process while it was going on. Philly is one of the largest media markets in the US and the other owners pressured the Sixers into hiring Colangelo as a counterweight to Hinkie. Hinkie resigned soon after. That's all you could do without tanking for a long time. Get incrementally better through trades. Have enough trade pieces in reserve in case a superstar wants a change of cities. Try to strike gold late in the draft with players like Siakam. It's the same playbook Morey used to get Harden and CP3. It's how Ainge built the current Celtics. Well the hardcore fans will accept anything. I mean the browns still had fans and they were not trying to tank. The rest will "accept it" but won't show up or even watch games on TV. Other teams fans will not show up to watch their team play them. And worse than that now imagine a world where there are like 3 super teams and 27 teams tanking it? If this had worked they would have to make rule changes it is bad for the NBA. I | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Does any one know who the 3rd guy in this picture is? Seeing all those freezing cold Canadians in winter coats, wearing winter gloves cheering Leonard's last minute game winner I had one question : "What the hell happened to the global warming Al Gore claimed was imminent?" On May 13 2019 06:25 KelianQatar wrote: I think Lowry is going to have a big game Lowry did a lot of good things last night. His shooting was abysmal AGAIN. He is shooting 28% from 3.and 41% overall. Both Lowry and Paul still have positive aspects to their game. However, both players shooting has declined sharply. In addition, this playoffs Chris Paul had the worst assist to turnover ratio of his career. Opponents played off of him daring him to shoot and focusing on covering passing lanes. This is what happens to small players their age. 538 Has The Raptors As A Slight Favourite Over The Bucks | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On May 13 2019 20:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Does any one know who the 3rd guy in this picture is? Seeing all those freezing cold Canadians in winter coats, wearing winter gloves cheering Leonard's last minute game winner I had one question : "What the hell happened to the global warming Al Gore claimed was imminent?" Lowry did a lot of good things last night. His shooting was abysmal AGAIN. He is shooting 28% from 3.and 41% overall. Both Lowry and Paul still have positive aspects to their game. However, both players shooting has declined sharply. In addition, this playoffs Chris Paul had the worst assist to turnover ratio of his career. Opponents played off of him daring him to shoot and focusing on covering passing lanes. This is what happens to small players their age. 538 Has The Raptors As A Slight Favourite Over The Bucks that 3rd guy looks like Jordan Loyd, 2 way contract with the G league tanking is just the better way to rebuild, it offers more things that you can control. tanking/losing/trading for bad contracts with draft pick sweetners for some teams is the only way to rebuild | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On May 14 2019 02:06 zev318 wrote: that 3rd guy looks like Jordan Loyd, 2 way contract with the G league ah ok. On May 14 2019 02:06 zev318 wrote: tanking is just the better way to rebuild, it offers more things that you can control. tanking/losing/trading for bad contracts with draft pick sweetners for some teams is the only way to rebuild I think the NBA views things this way as well. The NBA recently lowered the worst teams chances of getting the top picks in the lottery. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/nba-finalizes-schedule-two-conference-finals-series/ Both Conference Finals have one day off between games. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 13 2019 13:45 JimmiC wrote: And if Embids knee never healed, or him or Simmons leave after their rookie deals because they don't think it can happen there, or they want LA or whatever. You are not talking about simming a few seasons. You have to live through that, it is overall bad for basketball. I want way more drastic lottery changes to stop people thinking it is a good idea. Cheering for your team to lose is shitty. If we are being honest, the lottery has made the problem worse, not better. Most years there isn't a Zion or Patrick Ewing or Lebron where everyone tries to be last, most years are like 2017 where there are a bunch of potentially good but not slam dunk guys, and most of them are bad defenders (aka anyone under 6'3'' and most bigs who can shoot out of college). And thus bad teams keep themselves bad indefinitely, because even if you are horrific in year Zion, you prolly aren't going to get him. So whats the point? You have to pick 5 Tatums and hope one accidentally becomes MVP Paul George. | ||
JimmiC
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zev318
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JimmiC
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BTW I think who ever maxes Butler is gonna regret it. He's a great player but way to broken down | ||
Jerubaal
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zev318
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On May 14 2019 09:14 JimmiC wrote: Yeah none but the big markets and deep pocket owners can even survive the 5 year ultra tank. BTW I think who ever maxes Butler is gonna regret it. He's a great player but way to broken down hes just too old to justify a max, but someone will give it to him. just like someone gave it to cp3 On May 14 2019 10:47 Jerubaal wrote: Is Phoenix tanking? If not, how much worse could their situation get? i dont think thats their goal but the team is just bad. as for how much worse it can get? booker can always request a trade. oh and one of their players can resist arrest and run away from the cops while handcuffed, allegedly, like josh jackson did. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 14 2019 07:32 JimmiC wrote: Exactly why tanking is terrible strategy. It sounds good but the last Zion was Wiggins and he is not carrying you to a championship. Hell AD has shown he needs more help same with Towns. People underestimate the winning culture aspect. And the value of depth. How many of the current warriors core was 1's? How about their first championship? You ignored the point of tanking altogether. The core of the og warriors were 3 lottery picks, Draymond, a guy they traded a different lottery pick for, and 1 big FA signing. You need to accumulate assets to get going, "being better" is not a strategy everyone can employ, and even the best front offices lose to shit ones like CLE based on luck and tanking (LeBron "went home" because they were the team with the most assets in the East). | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Last night's Raptors//Sixers game was the most watched NBA game in Canada. Peak viewership of 3.8 million. It looks like Brett Brown still is the head coach of the 76ers for next year. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-76ers-head-coach-brett-brown-return-next-season/ | ||
JimmiC
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On May 14 2019 10:54 cLutZ wrote: You ignored the point of tanking altogether. The core of the og warriors were 3 lottery picks, Draymond, a guy they traded a different lottery pick for, and 1 big FA signing. You need to accumulate assets to get going, "being better" is not a strategy everyone can employ, and even the best front offices lose to shit ones like CLE based on luck and tanking (LeBron "went home" because they were the team with the most assets in the East). Being bad a bit is fine. And going to happen to most, if not all francies but that is very different from flat out tanking. Being bad for a bit so every team gets a shot at a couple studs is how league is intended to work | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 14 2019 15:56 JimmiC wrote: Being bad a bit is fine. And going to happen to most, if not all francies but that is very different from flat out tanking. Being bad for a bit so every team gets a shot at a couple studs is how league is intended to work Tanking is just being bad and intriguing at the same time. The alternative is 2016 nets/Knicks | ||
JimmiC
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cLutZ
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JimmiC
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If you are saying I'm making things up I am not. There is a clear difference between rebuilding and being actively bad for years to tank. The Suns are bad but they are not trying to be it is just how it is, and they need a second player to develop up with Booker, and to find out if Booker can lead a good team or just be great on a bad team. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Everyone else having to adjust to a 6'2" point guard is BS. A point guard Irving's size should put his team mates in a position to succeed. He should adjust to them. That should be his #1 priority. Passing should be a weapon used as frequently as the dribble. An Irving, without a top-4-in-the-NBA team mate that is unwilling to pass will always get shut down by good team defense. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
On May 14 2019 07:32 JimmiC wrote: Exactly why tanking is terrible strategy. It sounds good but the last Zion was Wiggins and he is not carrying you to a championship. Hell AD has shown he needs more help same with Towns. People underestimate the winning culture aspect. And the value of depth. How many of the current warriors core was 1's? How about their first championship? Nobody tanks for 1 year. The plan is to draft high for multiple years while trading veterans for extra picks. The teams doing this are playing their young guys and hoping some of the later picks turn into useful players. You don't tank for one season for one guy. That's a recipe for being an annual 8th seed. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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2) Grizzlies 3) Knicks 4) Lakers | ||
JimmiC
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The teams that are perpetually bad it is not because they have not had high picks. As much as people love the process they have not won shit. And you are just as likely to win getting a Gianas late in the lotto or Jokic in the second, trade for a disgruntled star or wait for a team like the knicks or lakers give up on some one early. And you get fans who actually get to cheer for their team. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
TBH davis holiday and zion is a terrifying big 3. Edit: reload it is lol. Report: Davis still wants trade despite Pelicans landing No. 1 pick https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1772810 | ||
cLutZ
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ZenithM
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I just don't understand the drop coverage Portland used in Game 1. If you don't think Kanter can do anything else in P&R actions then... don't play him, simple as that. 30 minutes is way too much for one of the worst p&r defenders in the league. The extra couple offensive rebounds and post-ups are not worth it. It's the first time in a loooong while I see Curry being intentionally guarded like that, it just doesn't make sense (intentionally as in, it's a coaching decision). Then people are like hurr durr Dame is getting torched by Curry. One is being (correctly) trapped on every screen, the other, an even better shooter, is playing 2v1 offense like it's a drill at the practice facility... Anyway both games went roughly as I expected. I expected terrible P&R defense for Portland but I thought they would at least try :D. I didn't think Lowry would have a great game like that though. The Raptors are in trouble imo, Giannis is well defended, Lowry has one of his best games (which he definitely won't come close to reproduce), and you still lose. I think Kawhi was gassed at the end. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On May 16 2019 21:18 ZenithM wrote:e. I think Kawhi was gassed at the end. Its 1 day off between games for the ECF. Not much recovery time. The Raptors play their bench so little that the Bucks can crank up the pace and tire the Raptors starters out. George Hill played another great game on the defensive end. Hill has been a fantastic bench player all playoffs. Milwaukee can legitimately go 10 deep. Other than Ibaka, who has been "ok", the Raptors bench is useless. The Raptors only played their bench for 40 minutes and the group was a combined -33 in 40 minutes. OUCH! Milwaukee has been the clear #1 team in the East all year.. its just that the first 25 games of their schedule was so brutally hard it was not noticeable in the Win-Loss column until later in the year. On May 16 2019 21:18 ZenithM wrote:e. I think Kawhi was gassed at the end. So many of Leonard's 3s and long 2s are hitting the front of the rim. That is a sign he is tired. He has not played this much in years. I think his legs are a bit weak in general. I think if you want "full power" Kawhi you can only play him 36 minutes a game. All these 40+ minute games add up. In MMA there is a saying .... "you can either have great power or great endurance... you can't have both". As an extremely high power athlete I don't think Leonard should be played 40+ minutes a game on a regular basis. ONce in a while .. maybe. 5 of Leonard's last 7 games have been 40 minutes or more. Its catching up with him. I don't think that ever happened with the Spurs. "Toronto's best player is leaking oil, Matty D! ! !" | ||
ZenithM
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JimmyJRaynor
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On May 15 2019 10:22 cLutZ wrote: What a shaft of a lotto of the 4 worst teams only 1 gets a pick in the top 4 and that is at #3. This draft lottery is a great deterrent for tanking. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On May 17 2019 00:08 ZenithM wrote: Yeah I agree with all that. Fully rested I truly believe Kawhi is the best player in the series by a good margin, but he's played a lot recently indeed. One thing that's flying under the radar a bit is how useless Green has been offensively. Shooting quite horrendously for an all-star 3pt contestant, he's not even that well guarded either. Yeah he is not, it is too bad such an unreal night of shooting by Lowry didn't work out as a W but mind you Lopez popped off on the other side. If Kawhi keeps this up, "load management" is going to become super common! | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 17 2019 00:18 JimmyJRaynor wrote: of the 4 worst teams only 1 gets a pick in the top 4 and that is at #3. This draft lottery is a great deterrent for tanking. False. It rewarded tankers New Orleans and LA. False#2. Now Chicago, Phoenix, and Cleveland will be bad for another year, tanking or not. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Losing and tanking are not the same things. | ||
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andrewlt
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On May 17 2019 00:08 ZenithM wrote: Yeah I agree with all that. Fully rested I truly believe Kawhi is the best player in the series by a good margin, but he's played a lot recently indeed. One thing that's flying under the radar a bit is how useless Green has been offensively. Shooting quite horrendously for an all-star 3pt contestant, he's not even that well guarded either. Welcome to the Danny Green experience. I started playing fantasy basketball last year. I think he had the most adds and drops of any player. Somebody takes a chance on him almost every week and drops him soon thereafter. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On May 17 2019 07:17 cLutZ wrote: Post trade deadline tanking is worse than having a young roster and playing young guys. Having a young roster and playing young players is not what the sixers did. You want what the kings did what tge hawks did, that is all healthy. Again unless you are saying LeBrons groin injury was not real or something they did not tank. They were trying to make tge playoffs. And the pels didnt tank at all they played Davis less because he demanded a trade and they didnt want to risk what happened to boogie. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 17 2019 09:37 JimmiC wrote: Having a young roster and playing young players is not what the sixers did. You want what the kings did what tge hawks did, that is all healthy. Again unless you are saying LeBrons groin injury was not real or something they did not tank. They were trying to make tge playoffs. And the pels didnt tank at all they played Davis less because he demanded a trade and they didnt want to risk what happened to boogie. The sixers "tank" was just avoiding overpaying for mediocre veterans. Its just smart roster building. What the Lakers/Pelicans did was intentionally reduce the number of games they would end up winning, given the roster they had. The kings and the hawks? The kings core is Bagley and Fox, two lotto picks. They were hopeless for years. Plus, more likely than not in a few years people are going to be making fun of them for having overpaid Stein and Bogdonovich and stalling out at 47 wins and a first round exit. The hawks? They won 29 games they aren't good. They might make the playoffs one day with that core. But you could make the playoffs with the Bulls shitty core, or the Suns, or any of these crappy teams. All you have to do is overpay for a few 29 year old guys in free agency. The difficulty is getting a core that can win playoff series. Neither of your "good examples" has that. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
On May 16 2019 21:18 ZenithM wrote: From the looks of it Jerubaal was rooting against both teams :D. I just don't understand the drop coverage Portland used in Game 1. If you don't think Kanter can do anything else in P&R actions then... don't play him, simple as that. 30 minutes is way too much for one of the worst p&r defenders in the league. The extra couple offensive rebounds and post-ups are not worth it. It's the first time in a loooong while I see Curry being intentionally guarded like that, it just doesn't make sense (intentionally as in, it's a coaching decision). Then people are like hurr durr Dame is getting torched by Curry. One is being (correctly) trapped on every screen, the other, an even better shooter, is playing 2v1 offense like it's a drill at the practice facility... Anyway both games went roughly as I expected. I expected terrible P&R defense for Portland but I thought they would at least try :D. I didn't think Lowry would have a great game like that though. The Raptors are in trouble imo, Giannis is well defended, Lowry has one of his best games (which he definitely won't come close to reproduce), and you still lose. I think Kawhi was gassed at the end. I like lots of players on both teams. I just am salty towards Kawhi and don't particularly like Giannis' game. | ||
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cLutZ
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On May 17 2019 11:42 xDaunt wrote: The Warriors are more fun without Durant. Duh. They are also a worse team. Unfortunately this Blazers team doesn't have a single physical wing on the team. They'd be better off trading Lillard for Delladadova in this series, that is how embarrassing their defense is. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
And of course in these playoffs they have no good defensive big. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On May 17 2019 10:21 cLutZ wrote: The sixers "tank" was just avoiding overpaying for mediocre veterans. Its just smart roster building. What the Lakers/Pelicans did was intentionally reduce the number of games they would end up winning, given the roster they had. The kings and the hawks? The kings core is Bagley and Fox, two lotto picks. They were hopeless for years. Plus, more likely than not in a few years people are going to be making fun of them for having overpaid Stein and Bogdonovich and stalling out at 47 wins and a first round exit. The hawks? They won 29 games they aren't good. They might make the playoffs one day with that core. But you could make the playoffs with the Bulls shitty core, or the Suns, or any of these crappy teams. All you have to do is overpay for a few 29 year old guys in free agency. The difficulty is getting a core that can win playoff series. Neither of your "good examples" has that. They didn't just not overpay pay veterans they traded away good young players, like Jrue Holiday, so they could be as horrible as possible and on top of that they announced to the NBA and fans that this was the plan. Talk to me when the Hawks trade away Collins and Trae young. If you like that and think it is good for basketball I disagree, so does the NBA, this is why they changed the rules. The reality is no matter what there are going to be bad teams, they can't all be good that is just how sports work, it is like grading on the curve you can't all be A's or F's. But you want as many competitive games as possible both regular season and playoffs so people actually want to watch. The championship or last theory is just wrong. Hell the Sixer who you think is so good added a top 10 and top 20 player and still were worse then the Deronzen lead Rpas who was one of the examples of what you think teams shouldn't do. But the Raps were great to watch for the last decade, sold out arenas build basketball in Canada, so on and so on. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/fatigue-setting-raptors-core-rotation-expansion-unlikely/ But it’s instructive when Lowry was asked about what a tired team looks the symptoms were there: “You see it everywhere,” Lowry said. “You see it mentally. You see it on the court. Shots are short, shots are long. You make some small mental mistakes. Give up a backdoor. You do this, you do that. There are a bunch of different ways you can find the mistakes. But those are excuses that we don’t make.” in just 1 year the Raptors have gone from the deepest bench in the NBA to a team with a head coach that has almost zero trust for his bench players. When a coach//authority-figure does not trust a player it can really chip away at that player's confidence. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
Maybe take about 20% off there, eh Bud? | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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On May 18 2019 10:35 Jerubaal wrote: Raptors really shitting the bed. meh, Milwaukee is just flat out better. | ||
Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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On May 18 2019 10:43 Jerubaal wrote: Did Shaq just make a racial joke? the Raptors are getting slaughtered so badly...on the Canadian half time show they are talking about "The Fonze" , "Happy Days" and "Laverne & Shirley". | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On May 18 2019 10:43 Jerubaal wrote: Did Shaq just make a racial joke? Watch the canadian feed so no clue, but sounds very likely. Charles was telling his bar fight story the last game. | ||
Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
i'm luvin' this full court press by the Bucks. its a mistake by Nick Nurse to give Kawhi Leonard and the other starters more than 36 minutes of playing time in this game. Get the starters off the floor and give them some rest. | ||
andrewlt
United States7645 Posts
On May 17 2019 19:57 JimmiC wrote: They didn't just not overpay pay veterans they traded away good young players, like Jrue Holiday, so they could be as horrible as possible and on top of that they announced to the NBA and fans that this was the plan. Talk to me when the Hawks trade away Collins and Trae young. If you like that and think it is good for basketball I disagree, so does the NBA, this is why they changed the rules. The reality is no matter what there are going to be bad teams, they can't all be good that is just how sports work, it is like grading on the curve you can't all be A's or F's. But you want as many competitive games as possible both regular season and playoffs so people actually want to watch. The championship or last theory is just wrong. Hell the Sixer who you think is so good added a top 10 and top 20 player and still were worse then the Deronzen lead Rpas who was one of the examples of what you think teams shouldn't do. But the Raps were great to watch for the last decade, sold out arenas build basketball in Canada, so on and so on. Remember when the Hawks had 4 All-stars? They got rid of them all like dominoes. What is that if not tanking? The difference is the Sixers had a plan to create a core of good players of roughly the same age. And even with their multi-year tanking plan, they got back to the playoffs faster than teams such as the Knicks, Kings and T-wolves. Trying and failing to make the playoffs for 15 years is not healthy. The Ranadive Kings are a complete disaster. They started showing promise because they've been in the lottery for twice as long as the Sixers' tank plan. And even with the Sixers' tank plan, they don't even have the worst record this decade. I believe that's the Knicks. The new lottery rules incentivizes teams to start tanking mid-season once they fail to reach their targets. Unless you think Lebron's groin injury is a highly contagious disease, the Lakers definitely tanked. So did the Pelicans and the Grizzlies. Those games they had from February onward were definitely not competitive. Not every team needs to be championship or bust, I agree. But there's a huge difference between teams that continually get to the 2nd-3rd rounds like the Raptors and teams that top out in the 1st round if they're lucky. If 1st round is your ceiling in a good year, you might as well rebuild. And let's face it, "rebuilding" is what people call tanking with enough of a smokescreen that they find it acceptable. | ||
Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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On May 18 2019 12:07 andrewlt wrote: Unless you think Lebron's groin injury is a highly contagious disease, the Lakers definitely tanked. i think Ingram's blood clot is legit. i don't think they made it up in order to "tank". Had it been some kind of strain or sprain they could exaggerate its severity... but faking a blood clot? nah. On May 18 2019 12:07 andrewlt wrote: Remember when the Hawks had 4 All-stars? They got rid of them all like dominoes. What is that if not tanking? they got rid of Carroll? or did they wisely choose not to match Toronto's offer because they knew how fucked his knees were? not matching Toronto's offer for Carroll is not "tanking". "tank" is an informal word and you can just play with its definition in whatever way you want to label every move a team makes as a "tank" | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
1. Not paying mid teir veterans in free agency. 2. Sitting your best players in season. #1. Is actually a saavy move in most cases, but its the one JJ hates the most. For some reason he thinks teams need to sign more contracts like the Lakers-Deng or Pistons-Reggie Jackson. Having lots of bad contracts would be bad in any system: 1-30 draft, weighted lotto, pure random lotto, or free agency. #2. Is only saavy because of the lottery. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On May 18 2019 12:07 andrewlt wrote: Remember when the Hawks had 4 All-stars? They got rid of them all like dominoes. What is that if not tanking? The difference is the Sixers had a plan to create a core of good players of roughly the same age. And even with their multi-year tanking plan, they got back to the playoffs faster than teams such as the Knicks, Kings and T-wolves. Trying and failing to make the playoffs for 15 years is not healthy. The Ranadive Kings are a complete disaster. They started showing promise because they've been in the lottery for twice as long as the Sixers' tank plan. And even with the Sixers' tank plan, they don't even have the worst record this decade. I believe that's the Knicks. The new lottery rules incentivizes teams to start tanking mid-season once they fail to reach their targets. Unless you think Lebron's groin injury is a highly contagious disease, the Lakers definitely tanked. So did the Pelicans and the Grizzlies. Those games they had from February onward were definitely not competitive. Not every team needs to be championship or bust, I agree. But there's a huge difference between teams that continually get to the 2nd-3rd rounds like the Raptors and teams that top out in the 1st round if they're lucky. If 1st round is your ceiling in a good year, you might as well rebuild. And let's face it, "rebuilding" is what people call tanking with enough of a smokescreen that they find it acceptable. Tanking at 80% of the way through the season is 80% (or more) better then tanking for seasons on seasons end. Hawks lost key players they tried to resign their most important player Al Horford who choose to leave for FA. Otherwise they would have kept trying to win. Now the lottery is actually a exciting night, so for a an entertainment product that is better. There is always going to be bad franchises, who make bad decisions, no matter what you do only 16 make the playoffs and 1 wins the championship. You want the maximum number of teams trying to do both. Also, a terrible team that is trying to get better, like the hawks or Mavs this year actually sells tickets and is fun to watch. The Sixers were brutal. Because so many liked the idea and thought it was good, and the Sixers were so public with it they forced the NBA's hand. One of the main reasons the NFL is the number one sport is every team feels like they are a couple moves from competing. The reality is there is no more turn over than other sports. Perception does matter, especially in the entertainment industry. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On May 18 2019 15:51 cLutZ wrote: Tanking is 2 things: 1. Not paying mid teir veterans in free agency. Letting Carroll go was a smart move due to his injury history. They knew the medical status of their player better than anyone else. Toronto overpaid Carroll. It took bundling TWO 1st round picks with Carroll to unload his contract. Letting Toronto overpay Carroll was not step 1 in Atlanta's "tank". | ||
JimmiC
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ZenithM
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xDaunt
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ZenithM
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Nurkic would have potentially shortened the Denver series and get them to GSW fresher but he wouldn't have helped that much against them anyway... | ||
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Jerubaal
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I feel like all of the chess is being sucked out of the game. | ||
cLutZ
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On May 19 2019 16:35 JimmiC wrote: That and Lillard is playing with separated ribs, so he not nearly the force he would usually be. Meh, he was always going to have this kind of trouble in the playoffs against good defensive teams. In reality, this series is currently being decided by Golden State's defense, which is good, whereas the Blazers are trash NBA playoff defenders. Steph and Klay need to be bullied 15x as much as they are in this series. | ||
Jerubaal
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xDaunt
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On May 19 2019 17:54 Jerubaal wrote: Yeah, Lillard, Leonard and Curry seem like defensive liabilities. It wasn’t really their fault. The weak spot in Portland’s defense that the Warriors ruthlessly exploited over and over again was whoever played center. | ||
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andrewlt
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Iggy is now down as well. The Warriors might grit their way to the finals only to get swept by the Bucks. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Leonard limping around right after a sprint up the court. I don't think he has ever played this many minutes in this short a time period in his career.Tired//weak muscle is a contributing factor to tendonitis. I think Nick Nurse has mismanaged Leonard during this playoff run. Lowry's left hand is fucked. He is clearly favouring it. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On May 20 2019 01:32 andrewlt wrote: With their star backcourt, the Blazers feel like they are Warriors-lite. You could beat the Warriors with an asymmetric roster that plays differently than they do, but it's harder when your roster is an inferior version of theirs. Almost every point guard in the league is a defensive liability, unless it's Ben Simmons. The Blazers' problem is that McCollum is also point guard-sized and they don't have the centers to make up for it. Iggy is now down as well. The Warriors might grit their way to the finals only to get swept by the Bucks. even if igoudala/durant/cousins dont play in the finals, i dont think the bucks will sweep the warriors. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
This is also a hell of game. Raps are not making it easy on the bucks. Even with lowry and powell fouled out they looking good. Siakam missed some big gree throws to end the reg but he is bringing it in the OT | ||
zev318
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JimmyJRaynor
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VanVleet plays 30+ minutes and goes 1-11 ... Green 1-9. LOL. | ||
JimmiC
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I wonder how common "load management" will become. | ||
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cLutZ
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On May 21 2019 01:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote: it was pretty cool of Magic Johnson to open up about why he left the Lakers. There are several edited videos on ESPN and Youtube covering his interview. I find him entertaining in his open idiocy and complete lack of self awareness. He went on a show to put Pelinka on blast for... telling people Magic had questionable work ethic. However, he then fails to provide any defense of his work ethic. Then he went on to portray Jeanie and the rest of the people he's allegedly cool with as total bumbling idiots. Possibly the worst intentional press appearance made by a person this year. | ||
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BlackJack
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JimmyJRaynor
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OG Anunoby is not always a critical bench player. That said, styles make fights. In this match up with the Bucks the Raptors really miss him. For all those screaming that Patrick Mccaw should replace Fred VanVleet in Toronto's rotation. Patrick Mccaw's brother died last week. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
i think someone that played 20 minutes a game throughout the season would qualify as being a critical bench player. thats just me. no matter who the raptors are playing, there is someone that he can guard and provide rest to some other player | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On April 14 2019 08:50 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The achilles heel for the Raptors is that this starting line up has not spent a lot of time playing together. On the game winning 3 Leonard and Gasol hesitated on who was covering DJ. Unfamiliar team mates will lead to stuff like that. The Raptors defense is clearly better than it was at the start of the playoffs. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On May 22 2019 09:39 zev318 wrote: anyone surprised stotts got an extension? there probably wasnt a better option, but i feel like he's taken the blazers as far as he can. i think someone that played 20 minutes a game throughout the season would qualify as being a critical bench player. thats just me. no matter who the raptors are playing, there is someone that he can guard and provide rest to some other player If you can help get Dame to stay then I think its the right move. Maybe he peaked, maybe hes building. You called it, bench came to play tonight. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Justin Trudeau is in Toronto speaking at some giant tech conference... everyone is in the building tonight except the PM. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 22 2019 09:39 zev318 wrote: anyone surprised stotts got an extension? there probably wasnt a better option, but i feel like he's taken the blazers as far as he can. i think someone that played 20 minutes a game throughout the season would qualify as being a critical bench player. thats just me. no matter who the raptors are playing, there is someone that he can guard and provide rest to some other player They don't have the horses man. Dame/CJ is a pretty tame "dynamic duo", neither is a 2 way player and Dame is susceptible to being thrown off his game by playoff defenses, just like all the little guys. | ||
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andrewlt
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On May 23 2019 05:13 cLutZ wrote: They don't have the horses man. Dame/CJ is a pretty tame "dynamic duo", neither is a 2 way player and Dame is susceptible to being thrown off his game by playoff defenses, just like all the little guys. Jeff van Gundy said it best. When Steph gives up the ball, he relocates. When Dame gives up the ball, he just stands there. Draymond is also better at attacking 4vs3 than anybody with the Blazers. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 23 2019 07:29 Jerubaal wrote: Why would you let such a man eat your cheeseburger? The Thunder failed me | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On May 23 2019 09:05 andrewlt wrote: Jeff van Gundy said it best. When Steph gives up the ball, he relocates. When Dame gives up the ball, he just stands there. Draymond is also better at attacking 4vs3 than anybody with the Blazers. I mean, it would be great if Lillard learned to do that more, but that ability is what makes Curry into an easy top 5 player of the NBA, and all-time great. It's not very common for any player to be more dangerous off-ball than on-ball, which I think is definitely true for Curry. He's most dangerous when moving without it, and 2-3 dribbles after the catch, especially when screened. Outside of those situations he's not much better than Dame against the same level of defense. But it's so insane for the defense that 2 to 3 pairs of eyes have to follow one guy who DOESN'T have the ball. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On May 23 2019 15:33 ZenithM wrote: I mean, it would be great if Lillard learned to do that more, but that ability is what makes Curry into an easy top 5 player of the NBA, and all-time great. It's not very common for any player to be more dangerous off-ball than on-ball, which I think is definitely true for Curry. He's most dangerous when moving without it, and 2-3 dribbles after the catch, especially when screened. Outside of those situations he's not much better than Dame against the same level of defense. But it's so insane for the defense that 2 to 3 pairs of eyes have to follow one guy who DOESN'T have the ball. moving without the ball, i think, for most nba players is a foreign concept. lets be honest, everyone wants to have the ball and cross over like 10 guys before dunking. and there's a lot of factors of why everyone wants to be THAT guy, id say 99% of any basketball highlights are people with the ball. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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the Bucks coach is considering limiting Giannis' minutes. I think Leonard has been over played in this playoffs. i think the Bucks starting Brogdon is a good move. | ||
zev318
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JimmyJRaynor
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JimmiC
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What a exciting awesome basketball game in a great atmosphere!! | ||
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cLutZ
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Sports leagues make money by monetizing ratings, selling tickets, and selling swag. Most those things don't do any of that. Sure it might get Trump re-elected, but he doesn't have shareholders, he's just getting personal satisfaction out of it. I'm not sure Adam Silver's personal happiness is good for the NBA, just like when Elon Musk smoked a joint that was pretty bad for Tesla shareholders. That is what emphasizing free agency in the NBA is: Adam Silver smoking a joint. | ||
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cLutZ
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On May 25 2019 11:04 zev318 wrote: its probably really hard to quantify free agency and its buzz into actually money made for the NBA, but i think there's no way it would be $0. keeping your product/league in the news as long as possible can not possibly be a bad thing. Why can't it be bad? If the thing keeping you in the news turns off fans during the season its a negative. Better to be forgotten for six months than have a 6 month off-season that generates antipathy and a lack of enthusiasm for the regular season in the average fan. And that's what "player empowerment" does. AD's saltiness would have tanked the Pelicans gate if they hadn't gotten Zion (plus I'm sure ratings and gate tanked last season for them). Is Kyrie more or less popular now than 3 years ago? What is the NBA free agency move that increased season ticket sales for both teams? NASCAR could certainly get attention on First Take if all the drivers acted like wierdos in the Capital of Pan-Em off the track, but I'm extremely skeptical that would gain them fans at the track. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Polite Toronto After the game 5 win party-goers from Maple Leaf Square headed to 1 of the busiest intersections in the city. It has a "scramble walk" mode where all lights are red for all car traffic so pedestrians can cross in any direction they want even going diagonally across the intersection. The Party Animals waited for "scramble walk" mode before jumping into the middle of the intersection with flags and banners waving and chanting. Then when "scramble mode" turned off... they went back to the side walk. This went on for about an hour. Only in Toronto. No Hockey Riots here. On May 25 2019 02:52 cLutZ wrote: To me that shows how little faith the NBA has in its actual product on the court, and their forgetfulness about what the actual business model of the NBA is. Indeed, its a problem NBA superfans have which is equating Twitter/Reddit/1st Take popularity with actual viewers. How much money does the NBA make from all those things and related buzz combined? $0. The same amount of money that the NFL makes from Kaepernick discussion. The same amount Donald Trump makes when the Post and Times write articles about him. Sports leagues make money by monetizing ratings, selling tickets, and selling swag. Most those things don't do any of that. Sure it might get Trump re-elected, but he doesn't have shareholders, he's just getting personal satisfaction out of it. I'm not sure Adam Silver's personal happiness is good for the NBA, just like when Elon Musk smoked a joint that was pretty bad for Tesla shareholders. That is what emphasizing free agency in the NBA is: Adam Silver smoking a joint. Trump's election, pot legalization, the Washington Post.... man .. this is a 9/10 post. had you been able to relate this all back to the discovery of the Higg's Boson it woulda been a GOAT post. On May 26 2019 00:11 cLutZ wrote: Is Kyrie more or less popular now than 3 years ago? What is the NBA free agency move that increased season ticket sales for both teams? This is a bit of an unfair question. Kyrie's biggest weaknesses just got exposed in the Bucks series. 3 years ago he came off a 7 game series win against a 73 win team. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 26 2019 01:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is a bit of an unfair question. Kyrie's biggest weaknesses just got exposed in the Bucks series. 3 years ago he came off a 7 game series win against a 73 win team. His biggest weakness is that he is an insane person who doesn't take personal ownership of his own bad play and is waffling/backtracking pre-season pledges? Because that's why people don't like him. Dame just had his flaws exposed by the Warriors and no one hates him. Ben Simmons didn't have a great series, Jamal Murray was up and down. Are they disliked, or are people desperately encouraging them to improve? Steph had his weaknesses put on display in 2016, no one turned on him and the Dubs until KD joined them. Melo and Dwight are historical examples. They kinda always were who they were, but no one cared about their laziness and obvious flaws until they started forcing trades and acting like the NBA universe should revolve around their transactions. If they were NFL QBs they'd have retired as beloved Nuggets/Magic greats 3 years ago. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
But you are right you want to shine a big ole flashlight on yourself and anything that might be wrong with you or your play, demand a trade! | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On May 26 2019 04:57 JimmiC wrote: It is not leaving in FA that drives fans crazy. It is demanding trades and so on while under contract that drives fans crazy. Like if Kemba moves on the hornet fans are not going to hate him. Same with TO and Deronzen, he got traded he didn't beg his way out of town. But you are right you want to shine a big ole flashlight on yourself and anything that might be wrong with you or your play, demand a trade! Right, no one cared when LeBron and KD left in free agency. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Toronto was pretty upset with Bosh leaving. The Prez of B-Ball Ops at the time made up some BS about Bosh refusing to play through a very minor injury. At the time Colangelo had some credibility so some people took his claims about Bosh "milking" an injury as possibly true. In other words, Colangelo attempted to fuel fan rage to absolve himself of some of the responsibility of being the Prez of a mediocre team he built. On May 26 2019 04:44 cLutZ wrote: His biggest weakness is that he is an insane person who doesn't take personal ownership of his own bad play and is waffling/backtracking pre-season pledges? True, he is rather narcissistic and self absorbed. Many people under 30 are...I've heard this common saying ...40 is the new 30 In some cases i think 25 is the new 12. an NBA title will cover up a lot of flaws. For some insight into the young narcissistic mind I recommend this book. | ||
JimmiC
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On May 26 2019 06:45 cLutZ wrote: Right, no one cared when LeBron and KD left in free agency. Well LeBron is a special case because of the decision. And KD was because he joined the super team. But you can leave in FA and not get hate, if you beg your way out while under contract it is guaranteed. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=1691812 | ||
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Twinkle Toes
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This is really a superstar turn for Kawhi! Now, IMAGINE if he beats GSW!!! | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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On May 26 2019 16:33 Taelshin wrote: Don't swear often on the forums here but.... FUCKIN PUMPED PALS. Go you Raptors goo!!!. Not sure how well they will fair in the finals but man as a 20ish year fan its awesome to see them make the finals. if you lived through this ... you deserved this... | ||
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JimmiC
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Oh well always next year. I'm so pumped for the Finals, I really really want the Raps to take at least one of the first two games so we have a intense final. What do people put the odds on Kawhi resigning with TO and how do the final's feed in? I'd say 50/50 if they lose and 85% he stays if they win. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On May 27 2019 02:56 cLutZ wrote: Who was the one who hated on VanFleet for like 4 straight months? dunno? there were Toronto people claiming Lin should get playing time over VanVleet. I was hearing it everywhere for about 2 weeks. FVV is way, way better than Lin and way smarter than Lin. As I've pointed out previously no one on the Raptors receives reverence from Lowry for his B-Ball IQ more than FVV. On May 27 2019 03:19 JimmiC wrote: Or the entire bench, claimed they would keep Kawhi on "load management" on the playoffs and so on. Even though that person treated these claims like fact he was sadly not willing to even do a sig bet in regards to them. Leonard's production has fallen dramatically since the stretch where they played only 9 games in 26 days. Its in the Grange article i linked a while ago. Leonard is tired and limping. These 4 off days should help him a lot. Nick Nurse mismanaged Leonard and has gotten away with it so far. Games 1 ,3 and 5 have 2 days off between them. This should help guys like Lowry and Leonard who've been shouldering a brutal minutes load in the first 3 rounds. | ||
JimmiC
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Also amazing that all the "people of Toronto" were both hating on Lin and wanting lin to replace FVV. Im glad we dont have such foolish and fair weather fans here! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Leonard said he has decided to "Bet On Myself". So Leonard is now using FVV's tag line? Does this mean he is staying in TO? | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Anyways... | ||
Twinkle Toes
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https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/05/raptors-fan-nav-bhatia-story-twitter-thread-nba-finals-toronto When you think of the Raps, you probably think of Drake on the sidelines, as the team’s biggest fan. The thing is, he’s not. He’s been at every single Raptors home game since 1995. That' right: Every. Single. One. Through Damon, Vince, CB4, a zillion coaches, blackouts, blizzards, you name it. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On May 27 2019 04:05 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i find the vague posts pointless. Leonard said he has decided to "Bet On Myself". So Leonard is now using FVV's tag line? Does this mean he is staying in TO? bet on himself....................................................... on the clippers XD | ||
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JimmiC
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https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/news/nba/mybookies-odds-favor-kawhi-leonard-signing-clippers-after-making-shot-toronto/ So untill pen to paper this storey is going to be big news! | ||
Twinkle Toes
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The finals should be on TNT, not ESPN. And Miller + Albert, since there is some dark magic reasons why they are not out yet, should only cast B level regular season games like Griz vs. Suns. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On May 27 2019 23:44 JimmiC wrote: The quick story I could find, now it is before they beat the bucks has the Clips as the fav with the Raps second. https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/news/nba/mybookies-odds-favor-kawhi-leonard-signing-clippers-after-making-shot-toronto/ So untill pen to paper this storey is going to be big news! Plus Kawhi wants to be in LA. So even if he wants to avoid Lebron, I think LAC is the way to go. If Raps get a good 2-3 games in the finals, he stay. TBH, he should stay in the East and welcome KD with him next year. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
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How Golden State reclaimed its juggernaut style It can be hard to see that juggernaut -- to close your eyes and see it -- when Durant plays. That was almost the point of signing him. He could blend with Steve Kerr's share-the-wealth ethos, but also enable a more traditional style. It has been good sport to poke fun at the "Kumbaya Kerr" egalitarian offense, but the results have proved Kerr right. Unleashing Curry and Thompson as cutters has paid dividends beyond keeping role players involved and happy enough to try hard on defense. "They cause a lot of confusion," Meyers Leonard says days after the Warriors swept Portland. "It's incredibly difficult to be a help defender and then be up at the screen. It feels awkward. Help defense against the Warriors is totally different when they are playing that old Warriors style. It's not normal. You never know what's coming." ESPN | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Durant's injury is more serious than it seems and he is taking the season off. Kawhi reaches Jordan level GOATness in the finals series Kawhi et al break the Warriors false juggernaut-core mythos, they need Durant after all. Durant is redeemed, goes to NYK to claim one for the Mecca of Basketball. The Warriors monster is slain. Curry et al need to find a new challenge. Warriors break up. Green goes somewhere (Portland). Thompson goes somewhere else. Curry stays. Order is restored. Raptors win the championship 4-2. _____________ INVITATION Me and some friends will have a Funday Sunday on June 2. Activities include afternoon pickup games at a local gym, then beer and bbq Game 2 drunk watching! Venue: NY area, anyone near, or far, is invited. JimmiC, Jerubaal, Seeker, JJR, clutZ, tl/nba regulars, are you near? Anyone else from NY, or even Canada? PM me for details. | ||
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Everyone else feel jittery about the finals??? I feel like epic history is gonna be made. NBA should really have a 1 week gap either between RS and PO or PO and Finals, when it can hold the Awards. I mean the awards last year got good numbers, but seriously nobody really cares anymore about it at that point. | ||
Elroi
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On May 27 2019 02:56 cLutZ wrote: Who was the one who hated on VanFleet for like 4 straight months? Well, not to defend that guy (whoever he is) but FVV played extremely bad for a long time then he played super good for no reason. We all try to look smart by analyzing what is going on, but that is just impossible to predict. | ||
JimmiC
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I have TO in 6 with Durrant making it back but that not being enough. I'll save other bold predictions for the offseason! | ||
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On May 28 2019 09:48 zev318 wrote: if toronto wins, its because a lot of things went wrong for the warriors and a lot of things went right for the raptors, which i cant see being the case. warriors have a lot of good defenders to throw at kawhi, more than any other team they have faced so far in the playoffs, so lets hope the bench continues to carry a big load and maybe someone will find danny green alive somewhere during the finals. Let the boy dream. They also have a lot of defenders to throw under Kawhi. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
I think the Raptors would be favored if Durant/Cousins never returned. Depends on how soon they're available, but the Raptors have an insane opportunity to win early games in the series, at home. It will take some above-average contribution from 1 or 2 of their bench guys though, for sure. Would be nice if Danny Green found his shot sometime soon :D. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On May 28 2019 11:49 Jerubaal wrote: Let the boy dream. They also have a lot of defenders to throw under Kawhi. LOLOLOL. The good thing is Kawhi can have his redemption run against the Warriors now. @zev, Ive seen the impossible happen. 2016, up 3-0 with possibly the best offensive scheme in NBA history and an elite defense as well, And yet the Warriors lost. But that's not even the worst case of WTFJUSTHAPPENED in NBA. I personally witnessed the almighty Lakers lose to a shit Pistons team in 2004. The narrative has changed now, but everyone expected it to go no further than game 5. And yet the opposite happened. People point to injuries and the feud and all the chaos within the 2004 Lakers now, but they were royal roading their way to the championship against Hakeem's Rockets, the semi-dynasty Spurs, and the strongish Garnett Wolves. It took me a full week to get out of bed and finally accept the reality that prime Kobe-Shaq plus Payton and Malone lost to a Y-level Detroit team, but after that, I knew anything is possible in basketball. That said, I think you are underestimating modern NBA proprietary analytics. Without Durant and Cousins, these Raptors, especially Kawhi, have a fair chance to defeat the Warriors. Raptors win 4-2* | ||
darthfoley
United States7999 Posts
Let's go Raptors! | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On May 28 2019 21:43 Twinkle Toes wrote: LOLOLOL. The good thing is Kawhi can have his redemption run against the Warriors now. @zev, Ive seen the impossible happen. 2016, up 3-0 with possibly the best offensive scheme in NBA history and an elite defense as well, And yet the Warriors lost. But that's not even the worst case of WTFJUSTHAPPENED in NBA. I personally witnessed the almighty Lakers lose to a shit Pistons team in 2004. The narrative has changed now, but everyone expected it to go no further than game 5. And yet the opposite happened. People point to injuries and the feud and all the chaos within the 2004 Lakers now, but they were royal roading their way to the championship against Hakeem's Rockets, the semi-dynasty Spurs, and the strongish Garnett Wolves. It took me a full week to get out of bed and finally accept the reality that prime Kobe-Shaq plus Payton and Malone lost to a Y-level Detroit team, but after that, I knew anything is possible in basketball. That said, I think you are underestimating modern NBA proprietary analytics. Without Durant and Cousins, these Raptors, especially Kawhi, have a fair chance to defeat the Warriors. Raptors win 4-2* im certainly not saying that raptors cant win, but if they do win, a lot of things will need to fall in place for them. whether its durant not coming back for the entire series (he travelled with the team to toronto so i think he will come back game 3 or 4) or danny green hitting shots. i just think its fair to say that the margin for error is bigger for the warriors than the raptors. i personally dont think cousins will matter as much, when i watched him play in the limited time that he was playing, it felt like he struggled to move. so i think even if cousin was cleared to play in this series, he would get very limited minutes. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
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On May 29 2019 09:55 zev318 wrote: im certainly not saying that raptors cant win, but if they do win, a lot of things will need to fall in place for them. whether its durant not coming back for the entire series (he travelled with the team to toronto so i think he will come back game 3 or 4) or danny green hitting shots. i just think its fair to say that the margin for error is bigger for the warriors than the raptors. i personally dont think cousins will matter as much, when i watched him play in the limited time that he was playing, it felt like he struggled to move. so i think even if cousin was cleared to play in this series, he would get very limited minutes. I think we are in general agreement, I am just emphasizing the complexity of the concept of "impossible/difficult to win" here. As I said, for 2004 Lakers and 2016 Warriors, all of the boxes need to be ticked for them to lose, which is almost impossible, and yet it happened. For this finals. you already mentioned the KD, Green, and Cousins factors, I want to add Gasol, Siakam, and Lowry. In summary, with Durant, it is Warriors 4-1 or 4-2 at best, without Durant, the Warriors are only slightly favored and there is a heavy chance of upset. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On May 29 2019 10:03 Jerubaal wrote: I don't know where all these articles about the "risk" of the Kawhi trade are coming from. You take that deal 100 times out of 100. You're trading a top 5 player for one of the least meta players in the league. Worst case scenario, you lose your rental and start the rebuild that you would have had to do anyway without the extra baggage of having to purposely get rid of DD. The risk was very valid . On one hand you have an A-Class superstar who was a lifer, wore his heart on his sleeve, played like hell in the last couple playoffs, and whose losses were attributed to being in a bad system and not having another legit superstar. PLUS he was then a victim of a vicious "business decision" betrayal. On the other hand, you have an almost S-Class superstar whose goodwill built on previous seasons of talent-showcase, humility, and professionalism were bombed by the events of the last one, which is marred by: playing only 5 or so games all season, rumors from his camp wanting him to be a "brand" in a large market, contradictions between medical teams of SAS and his own, statements from well-loved people like Manu and Duncan not understanding whats up with him, and the overall lack of transparency in his communications to his team and the media. Add to this the fact that DD was seen to benefit heavily from Pop's system, while Kawhi was now seen as an ungrateful primadonna who may actually have a career-altering injury. But yeah, success erases everything, and narrative is such a flimsy thing. PS. Masai did not want to trade DD. Kawhi was simply an offer he cannot refuse. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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https://twitter.com/realskipbayless/status/1133535776782704640?s=21 | ||
cLutZ
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On May 29 2019 20:19 Twinkle Toes wrote: The risk was very valid . On one hand you have an A-Class superstar who was a lifer, wore his heart on his sleeve, played like hell in the last couple playoffs, and whose losses were attributed to being in a bad system and not having another legit superstar. PLUS he was then a victim of a vicious "business decision" betrayal. On the other hand, you have an almost S-Class superstar whose goodwill built on previous seasons of talent-showcase, humility, and professionalism were bombed by the events of the last one, which is marred by: playing only 5 or so games all season, rumors from his camp wanting him to be a "brand" in a large market, contradictions between medical teams of SAS and his own, statements from well-loved people like Manu and Duncan not understanding whats up with him, and the overall lack of transparency in his communications to his team and the media. Add to this the fact that DD was seen to benefit heavily from Pop's system, while Kawhi was now seen as an ungrateful primadonna who may actually have a career-altering injury. But yeah, success erases everything, and narrative is such a flimsy thing. PS. Masai did not want to trade DD. Kawhi was simply an offer he cannot refuse. The injury risk was huge. I think the point is, however, the Raptors needed to trade DD & Lowry regardless. They were simply too far from having a shot at winning the conference. The number of injuries they needed to win a title was at like 6. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
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Is Daryl Morey About to Break Up the Rockets? With a disappointing postseason still fresh in the mind, rumors are circulating that Houston’s general manager has made practically the entire roster available. Does that mean the end of Chris Paul’s time in H-Town? Or could other Rockets be on the block? A championship is the only thing that would justify a 36-year-old CP3 hobbling around in 2022 for 17 minutes a night, acting out his own version of the Dirk grace period. But the Rockets haven’t won a title with Paul. Or reached the Finals. Because of his age and cost, Paul is the Rocket most likely to be shopped. For the same reasons, he’s not the easiest sell. Someone like Clint Capela makes for a much sexier investment; last July, he re-signed for five years and $90 million. TR | ||
cLutZ
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On May 30 2019 07:53 Twinkle Toes wrote: Lowry, yeah. But DD was semi-untouchable, until the Kawhi offer came. If that's true it just means Masai isn't as smart as people say. | ||
zev318
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do the rockets even have any assets (good ones) to trade? i think morey is dreaming if he thinks he can get anything worthwhile. capela may be their best asset, but for what he brings i think there should be cheaper options out there. | ||
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zev318
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On May 30 2019 09:47 JimmiC wrote: I mean they have Harden, but that defeats the purpose! A lot teams would take Tucker but I don't think that improves you. They always have picks to trade but high firsts don't get a lot. i would honestly shit my pants if they traded harden lol. anyone who's worth anything on that roster (cp3, tucker, gordon) is too old to get anything good back | ||
Jerubaal
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rabidch
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On May 28 2019 21:43 Twinkle Toes wrote: LOLOLOL. The good thing is Kawhi can have his redemption run against the Warriors now. @zev, Ive seen the impossible happen. 2016, up 3-0 with possibly the best offensive scheme in NBA history and an elite defense as well, And yet the Warriors lost. But that's not even the worst case of WTFJUSTHAPPENED in NBA. I personally witnessed the almighty Lakers lose to a shit Pistons team in 2004. The narrative has changed now, but everyone expected it to go no further than game 5. And yet the opposite happened. People point to injuries and the feud and all the chaos within the 2004 Lakers now, but they were royal roading their way to the championship against Hakeem's Rockets, the semi-dynasty Spurs, and the strongish Garnett Wolves. It took me a full week to get out of bed and finally accept the reality that prime Kobe-Shaq plus Payton and Malone lost to a Y-level Detroit team, but after that, I knew anything is possible in basketball. That said, I think you are underestimating modern NBA proprietary analytics. Without Durant and Cousins, these Raptors, especially Kawhi, have a fair chance to defeat the Warriors. Raptors win 4-2* about redemption, people not remembering how competitive kawhi was with the spurs in that 2017 WCF game 1 vs warriors and then he goes down and the spurs get swept? | ||
ZenithM
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JimmyJRaynor
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Such a stark contrast from the Magic Johnson double talk. https://streamable.com/obmvv Cut to a year later...If the Raptors win it all.... this speech will be remembered as an "Al Davis" level of speech. I'd say this is the best speech in Toronto Raptors history. #2 is the Glen Grunwald speech after the Raptors went 16-66. This giant black and white photo covering the wall of the Raptors arena fits right in with all the black and white photos of the Maple Leafs winning the Stanley Cup. Before 7 AM EST some 14+ hours before game time and people are lining up to enter Jurassic Park. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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On May 30 2019 09:37 zev318 wrote: there is 0% that DD was "untouchable", no offense to the guy, but he's not THAT good to be untouchable. I was being overdramatic with the untouchable thing, but it was in context with other equivalent superstars as an exchange, and in relation to lowry. It whats up were equal A level stars like Kemba, Kyrie, PG, WB, etc, then it would have been an easy pass. Kawhi was simply on a complete tier higher, and DD was who SAS wanted, not lowry. On May 30 2019 12:34 rabidch wrote: about redemption, people not remembering how competitive kawhi was with the spurs in that 2017 WCF game 1 vs warriors and then he goes down and the spurs get swept? Exactly. On May 30 2019 09:47 JimmiC wrote: I mean they have Harden, but that defeats the purpose! A lot teams would take Tucker but I don't think that improves you. They always have picks to trade but high firsts don't get a lot. I think this is a weaning moment for Daryl and the extreme sports analytics that they are applying. Capela is ok, and is lethal when connected to Harden, but HOU desperately needs a traditional 5 who can anchor then in the paint on both ends. They dont need the fancy stretch 4/5 as they are now since all their other players can bomb from the 3. They also need perimeter offense, not only for easier looks, but also because variety will make their 3/layup/ft philosophy more fluid. Most importantly, Paul has to go. One of his ex-teammates said it best, he acts like Kobe without Kobe's success. Dude is a dictator on offense, but his attitude is not commensurate to the value he brings to the team. Plus he is ancient and is a literal albatross on the Rockets finances. Harden should be safe, but I wont be surprised if he gets shipped. To NY maybe. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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There are going to be so many B-List celebrities at tonight's game... LOL. The Raptors re-cut their 4 year old iconic "we the north" video. No more Dwane Casey or Demar Derozan. They went south. A year ago the Raptors tried to make a different version with a female narrator and different city shots and it sucked badly. I'm glad they chose to use the original narrator and the original city scenes. Its by far the best version. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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as Gorilla Monsoon would say "Vince Carter is conspicuous by his absence here tonight". There was a "Paul You Suck" chant where the ESPN booth had Paul Pierce doing some desk analysis. LOL | ||
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ZenithM
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What I really like is that Kawhi makes the right play even when struggling, he can still draw smart fouls and make some tough 3 pointers. But if Durant comes back and Kawhi is still looking so slow, the Raptors are not winning this. Apparently Durant hasn't even practiced yet so they're safe for at least another game. It's a very real possibility that Durant doesn't play at all (in that case I would find it very funny for GSW to win ;D). | ||
zev318
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On May 31 2019 12:42 ZenithM wrote: First game went about as expected. I didn't foresee that output by Pascal and that relative lack of output by Kawhi (I don't think he's at 100%, he doesn't have a lot of lift, limps after contact in the paint, is slow to come back in transition), but otherwise it's indicative to me of the teams' respective strength. What I really like is that Kawhi makes the right play even when struggling, he can still draw smart fouls and make some tough 3 pointers. But if Durant comes back and Kawhi is still looking so slow, the Raptors are not winning this. Apparently Durant hasn't even practiced yet so they're safe for at least another game. It's a very real possibility that Durant doesn't play at all (in that case I would find it very funny for GSW to win ;D). no one's 100% at this point, iguodala is re-injured as well, we'll have to see how bad it is. they've already said that KD is "highly unlikely" to play game 2. id probably say KD comes back game 4, if iguodala misses more than 2 games that would be super great for the raptors, and they should get OG back at some point too. | ||
ZenithM
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The Raptors offense probably overperformed slightly this game, but their defense will remain good all the way. Pascal for FMVP | ||
Bagration
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JimmiC
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On May 31 2019 12:52 ZenithM wrote: Curry, Thompson and Green all look quite fresh. That's what's scary for Golden State right now. They can't realistically expect that much more from these 3 guys. One of Klay's patented "catches fire" games, maybe. Curry was not particularly well defended that game, and I expect the Raptors to identify that for Game 2. The Raptors offense probably overperformed slightly this game, but their defense will remain good all the way. Pascal for FMVP Can you imagine if spicy P wins that? I see no way it is mot kyle or kawhi, but if he stays red hot and you are right you can pick a Siakam themed quote for name for a month. | ||
zev318
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On May 31 2019 13:10 JimmiC wrote: Can you imagine if spicy P wins that? I see no way it is mot kyle or kawhi, but if he stays red hot and you are right you can pick a Siakam themed quote for name for a month. lowry wont have the numbers to win mvp | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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On May 31 2019 12:42 ZenithM wrote: First game went about as expected. I didn't foresee that output by Pascal and that relative lack of output by Kawhi (I don't think he's at 100%, he doesn't have a lot of lift, limps after contact in the paint, is slow to come back in transition), Cris Carter, who is very good friends with the Kawhi Leonard camp, says Leonard has tendonitis in both legs. He started with it in his left earlier in the playoffs and now he has tendonitis in both legs. What is discouraging about Kawhi Leonard's long term future is the Raptors spent the entire year letting Leonard rest as much as he needed. Then as soon as Leonard puts it into Overdrive... puts the petal to the metal.. he ends up with tendonitis again in the same leg that gave him problems 2 years ago. | ||
JimmiC
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Load management has been a success 3 more wins and then rest and get him ready for the next playoffs will be the goal again, no matter who he is with. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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After playing 9 regular season games and then 60 regular season games Kawhi's right quad tendonitis issue returns after 10 playoff games. This is bad news for Kawhi Leonard long term. | ||
JimmiC
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This is why I told you with utter confidence that he would play every game in the playoffs, now your confirmation bias is trying to somehow show that you were right, you were not. You simply don't understand the point of Load management. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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So, back to the NBA... "The Lakers have their own channel... its called ESPN" https://streamable.com/dph1v Some property management firm offered Kawhi Leonard a free $20 million penthouse condo if he re-signs in Toronto. I wonder if the NBA/NBAPA will have something to say about that circumventing the salary cap. Isn't there a Starcraft2 Tourney called "King Of The North" ? This billboard is in Oakland, California. | ||
zev318
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On June 01 2019 01:42 JimmyJRaynor wrote: LOL , the load management protocol for Kawhi Leonard failed. Focus on the NBA... don't try to crawl inside my mind from across a web browser and tell me what I'm thinking. So, back to the NBA... "The Lakers have their own channel... its called ESPN" https://streamable.com/dph1v Some property management firm offered Kawhi Leonard a free $20 million penthouse condo if he re-signs in Toronto. I wonder if the NBA/NBAPA will have something to say about that circumventing the salary cap. Isn't there a Starcraft2 Tourney called "King Of The North" ? This billboard is in Oakland, California. its not circumventing anything if its not coming from or associated to the team. its like saying hey some toronto company wants kawhi to do sponsorship (at their own decision, not because the raptors brokered the deal etc) that it would count as circumventing the cap. what the clippers did when they were trying to sign deandre jordan would be circumventing the cap: https://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/08/25/nba-fines-clippers-for-attempting-to-circumvent-salary-cap-with-deandre-jordan/ | ||
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Paljas
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On May 31 2019 11:17 JimmyJRaynor wrote: nice to see all those ex-Raptors. Was Vince Carter around? i saw Stoudamire, McGrady, Curry, JYD, MoPete, Alvin Williams and Bosh are working the Canadian broadcast ...but ... no Vince? as Gorilla Monsoon would say "Vince Carter is conspicuous by his absence here tonight". There was a "Paul You Suck" chant where the ESPN booth had Paul Pierce doing some desk analysis. LOL I dont think this is suprising, the relationship between Carter and the Raptors didnt end very well | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 01 2019 05:25 Paljas wrote: I dont think this is suprising, the relationship between Carter and the Raptors didnt end very well "didnt end very well" is a massive understatement in this case. The relationship was more like chemotherapy. They gave him everything so that he could be the guy, and he ended up destroying the team from the inside. Im a 00s kid and I love VInsanity, but that was the height of unprofessionalism. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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If KD was pr/media savvy, in contrast to his moronic insistence of arguing with nephews online, he should know that this is the golden opportunity he's been waiting for all his life, legacy-wise and championship-wise. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
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On June 01 2019 20:10 JimmiC wrote: With Carter it could be something like his Grandma is in the hospital or something else personal as well. Its not like mccrady or bosh or damon left in super happy circumstances either. For sure both parties were to blame, but Carter openly sabotaging his own games, telegraphing plays to opponents, was not the way to do it if he wanted out. | ||
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zev318
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if u think the raptors has any ill will towards him now, i'd say its 100% guaranteed that his number will be retired by the raptors. | ||
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KOFgokuon
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Twinkle Toes
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The last 2 teams are those that were the least involved during the regular seasons, at least until the last few games when seeding was becoming important. GSW was practically just waiting for the playoffs to start, while TOR didnt even play Kawhi 2 games in a row. Question: Poll: the NBA regular season should: remain the same - 82 games (0) reduced to 70 games? (2) reduced to 60 games? (0) reduced to 50 games? (1) 3 total votes Your vote: the NBA regular season should: (Vote): remain the same - 82 games REMAIN THE SAME (advantages): - good for stats consistency - more traditional revenues to owners (tickets +) REMAIN THE SAME (disadvantages): - injuries - many games are inconsequential and dull SHORTEN (advantages) - more rest time for players, less injury - games are more meaningful SHORTEN (disadvantages) - less revenue for owners - stats consistency issue Thoughts? | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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Mississauga, a suburb of Toronto, had 20,000 people watching the Raptors game 1 final on a giant screen at the biggest shopping mall in city. On June 02 2019 19:16 Twinkle Toes wrote: while TOR didnt even play Kawhi 2 games in a row. Leonard played 2 games in a row on many occasions. He played 60 games out of 82. Its impossible to play that many games and avoid playing 2 consecutive games. | ||
zev318
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On June 02 2019 15:19 cLutZ wrote: I don't see why they should. He only played 7 years there. there are numbers retired by teams with even shorter amount of time played. sometimes its not all about having played for a team for 10+ years. his effect on canadian basketball is undeniable, there's a documentary about it. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7284952/ | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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The Canadian broadcasts show ex-Raptors that show up to playoff games. Even 1 year guys like Bizmack Biyombo show up. No VC though. He has no time for the little people... he is probably too busy getting his masters degree... so i went to the local crappy Mississauga suburban mall today... and everyone is plastered in Raptors attire. LOL. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Raptors shirt. Lowry's #7 is the most popular with Derozan's #10 the second most common jersey. | ||
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zev318
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On June 03 2019 01:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote: pretty sure Roberto Alomar got into Baseball's HOF repping the Blue Jays and has had his #12 retired by the Blue Jays despite only playing there 5 years. On top of that the Blue Jays didn't draft him. That said, I don't want to see the Raptors retire Carter's # or hang it in the rafters or honour his # or any of that stuff. Roberto Alomar was the best Blue Jay in the history of the team and had a couple of years where he was the best baseball player on the planet. VC is just an occasional all-star who half pays attention on defense. That's not good enough. so i went to the local crappy Mississauga suburban mall today... and everyone is plastered in Raptors attire. LOL. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting a Raptors shirt. Lowry's #7 is the most popular with Derozan's #10 the second most common jersey. i mean that's really putting down his accomplishments with the raptors. him and chris bosh probably 1/2 on the greatest raptors list, would u retire bosh's number (bosh also played 7 seasons in toronto)? vince was def a better scorer and vince basically made the all star team every year before going to the magic, which is when he really started to decline. again, retiring numbers should take into account of his influence off the court, its pretty safe to say canadian basketball wouldnt be where it is now without vince's influence when he was with the raptors. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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To put into perspective how mediocre VC has been in the playoffs... his shooting #s are worse than Lowry's shooting #s. He doesn't take charges, play very good defense, nor is he much of a playmaker. On June 03 2019 01:36 zev318 wrote: its pretty safe to say canadian basketball wouldnt be where it is now without vince's influence when he was with the raptors. The high price of hockey equipment and safety concerns are driving canadian kids and parents away from hockey. Hockey participation in Canada is falling fast. With nothing to do in the winter more kids are playing basketball. A good hockey stick is $200. What happens when it breaks? ratings were horrible during several of the VC years. They gave away the TV rights for their games to "City TV".. .a local urban toronto broadcast with zero reach outside of the GTA. Their signal was even difficult to capture in places like Milton and eastern Oshawa. A small supermarket in a small city outside Toronto is offering Kawhi free cat food to stay with the Raptors | ||
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zev318
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On June 03 2019 01:40 JimmyJRaynor wrote: If the Raptors win the championship this year I'd retire Lowry's #7. That's about it. I'm not a big fan of retiring the #s of occasional all-stars. To put into perspective how mediocre VC has been in the playoffs... his shooting #s are worse than Lowry's shooting #s. He doesn't take charges, play very good defense, nor is he much of a playmaker. The high price of hockey equipment and safety concerns are driving canadian kids and parents away from hockey. Hockey participation in Canada is falling fast. With nothing to do in the winter more kids are playing basketball. A good hockey stick is $200. What happens when it breaks? ratings were horrible during several of the VC years. They gave away the TV rights for their games to "City TV".. .a local urban toronto broadcast with zero reach outside of the GTA. Their signal was even difficult to capture in places like Milton and eastern Oshawa. A small supermarket in a small city outside Toronto is offering Kawhi free cat food to stay with the Raptors he made the all star game every year with the raptors with the exception of his rookie season, which he won ROY. didnt know 6 out of 7 is defined as occasional and we're talking about his raptor years only as this is a discussion about the raptors retiring his number, not other teams. wow, lowry is 0.7% better shooting in the playoffs, is that really what you're going to point out? 0.7% of shooting %? i can also point out that vince has a higher 3pt%, higher FT%, in the playoffs as a raptor. not much of a playermaker, yet he still averages 5 assists a game in the playoffs to lowry's 6.3 as a raptor. vince has a really small sample size tho. im not sure about the whole tv ratings thing that you pointed out, what does that have to do with vince? i dont remember watching raptors games on city tv, usually its tsn that i watched it on. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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On June 03 2019 02:30 zev318 wrote: wow, lowry is 0.7% better shooting in the playoffs, is that really what you're going to point out? 0.7% of shooting %? i can also point out that vince has a higher 3pt%, higher FT%, in the playoffs as a raptor. not much of a playermaker, yet he still averages 5 assists a game in the playoffs to lowry's 6.3 as a raptor. vince has a really small sample size tho. im not sure about the whole tv ratings thing that you pointed out, what does that have to do with vince? i dont remember watching raptors games on city tv, usually its tsn that i watched it on. Lowry does all kinds of little things VC never did. The Raptors won one playoff series during the VC era. The TV Ratings thing indicates how little interest there was in the Raptors. The Raptors gave their games away for almost nothing. Curling got far better ratings during the VC era and it showed based on how the Raptors rights were kicked around from place to place whereas Curling events were coveted by sports networks. VC is a good player. I wouldn't want his # retired. Like I said if the Raptors win it all I'd retire Lowry's #7. Also, I'd honour Masai Ujiri in some manner. Maybe , stick his name on a banner and hoist it up to the rafters. On June 03 2019 02:29 JimmiC wrote: . A lot of what you are saying is just factually inaccurate. Would you be interested in bet about jersey retirement? "a lot" is too vague to discuss. On June 03 2019 02:29 JimmiC wrote: I get city TV in Alberta, I'm sure lots of others do too The City-TV in Toronto is the only place that broadcast it. If it were a serious sports property it wouldn't be on a station like City-TV at all. What sports did City-TV in Toronto carry? How 'bout nothing at all. City-TV is an Artsy type channel in Toronto. They put on shows produced and made by extremely cheap local talent. That was Moses Znaimer's secret to profitiballity ... spend no money. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
There is so much info out there that disputes what you are saying. Not sure why you continually feel the need to double down on stuff that is not factually accurate. The Raptors' own TV ratings have also more doubled over five years, from 108,000 in 2010-11 to 246,000 in 2014-15. Ratings have gone down to 217,000 in 2015-16, but end-of-season audiences should drive that number up, according to the Raptors' broadcast department. But these numbers still do not approach the Vince Carter era, when the team averaged 713,000 viewers on CTV in 2001. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/basketball-by-the-numbers-1.3438486 | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 05:35 JimmiC wrote: Then how do you explain all us non TO people that watched raptors games? because not every Raptors game was put on City-TV during the VC era. On June 03 2019 05:35 JimmiC wrote: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/basketball-by-the-numbers-1.3438486 yes, ratings have skyrocketed long after VC left the Raptors. While VC was on the team the Raptors were giving away the rights to channels like City-TV for almost nothing; i think it included some kind of percentage cut on any commercials City sold. But these numbers still do not approach the Vince Carter era, when the team averaged 713,000 viewers on CTV in 2001. yep, for a couple of games at the peak of the VC era there were less than a handful of good ratings #s for very important individual playoff games. Those peak #s have long been annihilarted. I think a recent Raptors game peaked at over 7 million. Regular season games in the VC era had horrible ratings and landed on places like City-TV. In the same article you posted. Raptors games still trail well behind other sports in the ratings. During their competing regular seasons, the NFL, CFL and NHL still regularly pull in from two to 10 times as many viewers as the Raptors and the NBA usually can. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Yes they are better now, but they were brutal before and after VC, maybe this is what confused you? When Vince Carter was doing his thing, their playoff games approached 1 million. So a winner would help. Your headcannon is not fact, stop treating it as such. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 05:48 JimmiC wrote: Not true. Please stop lying or back it up with some actual numbers. THEY ARE OUT THERE. Yes they are better now, but they were brutal before and after VC, maybe this is what confused you? Your headcannon is not fact, stop treating it as such. You are not fully reading my replies. In any event, you have one source that says 713,000 and another source that says close to one million. This is also from the source you posted. Youth participation in basketball has also trended slightly upward. Of sports participants from ages five to 14, basketball went from a 13 per cent participation rate in 1998 to a 16 per cent in 2010, according to a sports participation report published by Canadian Heritage. So VC didn't inspire some massive spike in participation. It went from 13% to 16%. Its a nice increase... but this does not make VC some kind of basketball saviour of Canada even if you assume the entire reason for the increase was all due to VC and no other factors. VC was a good player. He was not some kind of generational, once-in-a-lifetime, culture influencing icon. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
And on the other side we have you making things up and treating them as facts. This is literally why you received your second last ban, and maybe the last one no details given. Will you ever learn? JimmyJRaynor was just temp banned for 2 days by Waxangel. That account was created on 2010-04-11 22:42:46 and had 12250 posts. Reason: You can disagree, you can be pessimistic, but you can't just go around stating your extremely aggressive headcannon as fact. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 06:03 JimmiC wrote: A mere 25% increase.. On June 03 2019 06:03 JimmiC wrote: And on the other side we have you making things up and treating them as facts. This is literally why you received your second last ban, and maybe the last one no details given. Will you ever learn? no, we have me reading your own sources and pointing out how they back up my points. 25% is incorrect. Your basic arithmetic is wrong. Your own source calls the increase in youth participation in basketballl over 13 years as Youth participation in basketball has also trended slightly upward. that is your own source. VC deserves some credit for "Youth participation in basketball has also trended slightly upward." There are other factors involved in this slightly upward trend over 13 years other than VC playing in Toronto for 7 years. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
6 of 7 all star games and ROY. "occasional all star with TO" is what you say. "Couldn't even get ratings in Canada and was not on national TV during VC". Multiple sources say otherwise. "Only went up from 13-16% there for they should not retire his number" WTF are you even arguing now lol. I got TO tonight putting the big pressure on GS for heading back to the bay area. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 06:17 JimmiC wrote: Yes you are moving the goal posts. We started talking about ratings and VC's impact now you have moved to it is not a big enough for your liking. i am not moving the goalposts. Early in the convo here is what was stated about "Canadian Basketball". On June 03 2019 00:02 zev318 wrote: there are numbers retired by teams with even shorter amount of time played. sometimes its not all about having played for a team for 10+ years. his effect on canadian basketball is undeniable, there's a documentary about it. And participation in basketball in Canada has trended slightly upward from 1998 to 2010 as your source pointed out. VC deserves some credit for that increase. I don't think VC deserves all the credit though. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 06:24 JimmiC wrote: Youth trends from 1998 to 2010 are not the only factor to what Zev said, and they went up, maybe watch the documentary instead of trusting whatever you are making up in his head. I am trusting your source. CBC leans heavily left in political issues. In non-political issues the CBC is very reliable. You stated I was moving the goalposts. I am not. I am discussing the topic Zev brought up and using your source. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Good then, he made a difference in youth basketball, ratings were way bigger with him, he made the all-star team 6 out of 7 and won the ROY, he brought us the furthest we ever got in the playoffs, his dunk competition performance made him a superstar not just in Canada. Glad we can now agree that VC had a big impact on basketball in Canada. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 06:17 JimmiC wrote: And yes 13% x 1.25 = 16.25.... Come on man. No point discussing something you have made up. Your arithmetic is incorrect. it is not a 25% increase. (16-13)/13 = 23.07% increase. This 23% increase is over 13 years from 1998 to 2010. VC was around for ~6.25 seasons. One of those seasons was only 50 games long due to a strike. If your claim is that VC is responsible for what happened after he left in 2004 then he is also responsible for some of the negative stuff that happened after he left as well. If you claim VC is only responsible for everything positive and not responsible for anything negative then you should join the VC fan club. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
So you don't think he will get his number retired because of, occasional all-star (all but one), not enough of an increase in youth basketball, only 23%, bad viewership (um no), not available outside TO (not true) and so on. I'm going to go with yes because of all the reasons stated, he was the first Superstar TO ever had, he made the raptors "cool", put us on the map. He is part of the reason there is so many more canadians in the NBA, NCAA and so on. You can have a opinion that is fine, it would just be nice if the "facts" you used to back it up were actual facts and not made up in your head. https://ca.nba.com/news/vince-carter-toronto-raptors-growth-of-canadian-basketball/lzqm3evneimm1cbuoxaaqpemc https://www.raptorsrepublic.com/2017/12/18/vince-carter-father-canadian-basketball/ https://theundefeated.com/features/toronto-international-film-festival-the-carter-effect-canadian-basketball-mudbound-shine-bright/ | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 07:52 cLutZ wrote: VC is going to make the HOF because basketball is full of softies that let in everyone. Retiring his number would be a move for a team with no self esteem. good points. brutal.. but honest. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 03 2019 07:52 cLutZ wrote: VC is going to make the HOF because basketball is full of softies that let in everyone. Retiring his number would be a move for a team with no self esteem. He's going to get his number retired because he was the first real superstar and he is part of the reason why TO kept a team when Vancouver lost theirs. But way to basically say nothing and be negative. Super insightful, you know it is really insightful because JJR thinks it is, meaning you agree with him you don't need anything to back it up. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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JimmiC
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JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
More B-List celebrities at the Toronto Raptors game again tonight. 2 Toronto Argonaut players and Barack Obama. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
But yes we know you think they should play him in every second playoff game or something odd. And since they are not you continue to make posts about how burnt out he is while he puts up all time numbers and plays great D. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 03 2019 12:35 JimmiC wrote: Kawhi looked fine and there is lots of days between games. They just needed to hit some shots in the third and get a better whistle early. 34-14-3-1-1 they will take all day. And if his 3 was falling it would have been 40 +. But yes we know you think they should play him in every second playoff game or something odd. And since they are not you continue to make posts about how burnt out he is while he puts up all time numbers and plays great D. RIght, it was Siakam, and Gasol stinking it up from the floor that killed them. Maybe Kawhi's 3 pointer was off because hes tired, or out of sorts, but he was what he had to be. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 12:35 JimmiC wrote: But yes we know you think they should play him in every second playoff game or something odd. And since they are not you continue to make posts about how burnt out he is while he puts up all time numbers and plays great D. All time #s? its hilarious how you say i am lying and moving goalposts and spew all this other bile and it turns out you are incorrect. Stick to the facts and quit taking shots at me. Your goalpost move accusation was BS dude. all time #s? Kawhi is shooting 38% from 3. He entered the playoffs shooting 43% from 3 on ~300 attempts. that is not "all time #s" Kawhi entered this playoff year shooting 52% overall during his career on over 1000 attempts. Kawhi is shooting 49.6% in this year's playoffs. this is not "all time #s". Kawhi's Turnovers are way up compared to every other playoff run he has been on and his assists are lower than his last playoff run in 2017. None of this stuff is "all time #s". His #s continue to decline as he hobbles through the playoffs with chronic tendonitis in his right quad. The only thing for Kawhi that is "all time #s" are his minutes. Kawhi has never played the kind of minutes Nurse is giving him and he is wilting under the work load. As I said earlier, the old MMA saying is you can either have great power or great endurance ... you can't have both. Kawhi has great power and, as a result, great coaches like Greg Popovich have respected Kawhi's lack of endurance by playing him 34 minutes a game in the playoffs. Kawhi can be great at 34 minutes a game. Play him 40 minutes a game and you are risking his health and you will get diminishing returns from a tired player. The health risk is due to the overuse injury he has been trying to manage for 2 years. Michael Grange identified this issue 2 weeks ago. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/fatigue-setting-raptors-core-rotation-expansion-unlikely/ | ||
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 03 2019 13:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: All time #s? its hilarious how you say i am lying and moving goalposts and spew all this other bile and it turns out you are incorrect. Stick to the facts and quit taking shots at me. Your goalpost move accusation was BS dude. all time #s? Kawhi is shooting 38% from 3. He entered the playoffs shooting 43% from 3 on ~300 attempts. that is not "all time #s" Kawhi entered this playoff year shooting 52% overall during his career on over 1000 attempts. Kawhi is shooting 49.6% in this year's playoffs. this is not "all time #s". Kawhi's Turnovers are way up compared to every other playoff run he has been on and his assists are lower than his last playoff run in 2017. None of this stuff is "all time #s". His #s continue to decline as he hobbles through the playoffs with chronic tendonitis in his right quad. The only thing for Kawhi that is "all time #s" are his minutes. Kawhi has never played the kind of minutes Nurse is giving him and he is wilting under the work load. As I said earlier, the old MMA saying is you can either have great power or great endurance ... you can't have both. Kawhi has great power and, as a result, great coaches like Greg Popovich have respected Kawhi's lack of endurance by playing him 34 minutes a game in the playoffs. Kawhi can be great at 34 minutes a game. Play him 40 minutes a game and you are risking his health and you will get diminishing returns from a tired player. The health risk is due to the overuse injury he has been trying to manage for 2 years. Michael Grange identified this issue 2 weeks ago. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/fatigue-setting-raptors-core-rotation-expansion-unlikely/ Yes this is the third time you posted it. Kawhi has been great, hes got what the 5th most points coming into the finals? Guess what when peoples attemps go up and defenses tighten your numbers drop a bit. I see no way you watched the game and didnt think kawhi was a monster and that goes for the playoffs. Would there be all this Kawhi is the best player in bball if he was doing bad? Come on man, even for you this is getting silly. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 13:42 JimmiC wrote: Would there be all this Kawhi is the best player in bball if he was doing bad? Come on man, even for you this is getting silly. nah, i've provided plenty of facts to back my points. Kawhi has never played 40 minutes a game. Popovich played him 34 minutes a game. 34 minutes is probably about right. 40 minutes is too much and it shows... Kawhi is tired and inefficient. Greg Popovich is a better coach than Nick Nurse. On June 03 2019 13:42 JimmiC wrote: I see no way you watched the game and didnt think kawhi was a monster and that goes for the playoffs. Would there be all this Kawhi is the best player in bball if he was doing bad? Come on man, even for you this is getting silly. This pretty much describes Kawhi's deterioration On May 31 2019 12:42 ZenithM wrote: First game went about as expected. I didn't foresee that output by Pascal and that relative lack of output by Kawhi (I don't think he's at 100%, he doesn't have a lot of lift, limps after contact in the paint, is slow to come back in transition), i'll let you guys debate this point. i agree with ZenithM. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Obviously the 18-0 run or whatever that was was huge, but to me the turning point was Cook making 3 threes. I thought Kawhi played well this game, but to go to the next level of Lebron-esque output, he would have to be a much quicker decision maker out of double teams, usually he freezes for 5 seconds and makes a safe pass up top and the defense has recovered, but there are windows he could exploit better. He's tired for sure (most of his jumper misses are short, he doesn't have much lift in his legs), but he didn't look fragile this game as he looked in Game 1 to me. He did look too tired to complete a late 4th comeback though, he missed a lot of looks that were easy for him. The Raptors are still favored at this point imo, but that's a game they really didn't want to drop :\ | ||
iX7
32 Posts
On June 03 2019 13:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: All time #s? its hilarious how you say i am lying and moving goalposts and spew all this other bile and it turns out you are incorrect. Stick to the facts and quit taking shots at me. Your goalpost move accusation was BS dude. all time #s? Kawhi is shooting 38% from 3. He entered the playoffs shooting 43% from 3 on ~300 attempts. that is not "all time #s" Kawhi entered this playoff year shooting 52% overall during his career on over 1000 attempts. Kawhi is shooting 49.6% in this year's playoffs. this is not "all time #s". Kawhi's Turnovers are way up compared to every other playoff run he has been on and his assists are lower than his last playoff run in 2017. None of this stuff is "all time #s". His #s continue to decline as he hobbles through the playoffs with chronic tendonitis in his right quad. The only thing for Kawhi that is "all time #s" are his minutes. Kawhi has never played the kind of minutes Nurse is giving him and he is wilting under the work load. As I said earlier, the old MMA saying is you can either have great power or great endurance ... you can't have both. Kawhi has great power and, as a result, great coaches like Greg Popovich have respected Kawhi's lack of endurance by playing him 34 minutes a game in the playoffs. Kawhi can be great at 34 minutes a game. Play him 40 minutes a game and you are risking his health and you will get diminishing returns from a tired player. The health risk is due to the overuse injury he has been trying to manage for 2 years. Michael Grange identified this issue 2 weeks ago. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/fatigue-setting-raptors-core-rotation-expansion-unlikely/ these are all very good points. hmmn, i wonder what you think is the reason Kawhi's numbers are down? Is Van VLeet ready? Do you think the reason his great performance is due to Kawhis wilting performance? I cant quite place him in terms of his contribution to the team, perhaps a detail advanced analytics analysis will make it clear. Im not from canada and dont really know about Carter, but I dont think he was really good On June 03 2019 16:45 ZenithM wrote: Very impressive win by the Warriors, with an insanely depleted roster. Obviously the 18-0 run or whatever that was was huge, but to me the turning point was Cook making 3 threes. I thought Kawhi played well this game, but to go to the next level of Lebron-esque output, he would have to be a much quicker decision maker out of double teams, usually he freezes for 5 seconds and makes a safe pass up top and the defense has recovered, but there are windows he could exploit better. He's tired for sure (most of his jumper misses are short, he doesn't have much lift in his legs), but he didn't look fragile this game as he looked in Game 1 to me. He did look too tired to complete a late 4th comeback though, he missed a lot of looks that were easy for him. The Raptors are still favored at this point imo, but that's a game they really didn't want to drop :\ Kawhi is injured and it shows. It is the type of injury that makes sports physicians and trainers iffy. you make good points though. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 03 2019 16:45 ZenithM wrote: Very impressive win by the Warriors, with an insanely depleted roster. Obviously the 18-0 run or whatever that was was huge, but to me the turning point was Cook making 3 threes. I thought Kawhi played well this game, but to go to the next level of Lebron-esque output, he would have to be a much quicker decision maker out of double teams, usually he freezes for 5 seconds and makes a safe pass up top and the defense has recovered, but there are windows he could exploit better. He's tired for sure (most of his jumper misses are short, he doesn't have much lift in his legs), but he didn't look fragile this game as he looked in Game 1 to me. He did look too tired to complete a late 4th comeback though, he missed a lot of looks that were easy for him. The Raptors are still favored at this point imo, but that's a game they really didn't want to drop :\ Yeah when Klay went down that is a game you need to have. I really hope they can split in Oakland. When the PBU shows up to agree with JJR it tells me I have engaged to much! Kawhi is tired, but still the best player in basketball (unless KD shows up on fire). https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/numbers-kawhi-leonards-2019-playoff-run-among-best-time/ (and if gets 2 more 30 point games he will have the most in playoff history in one run, DAMN!) And doing it with exceptional defense! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
any how.. here it is. https://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/david-thorpe-on-raptors-game-2-loss-kawhi-s-future-and-more-1.1315845 Does this mean Leonard is staying in TO? | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Also, it has come out that he is dealing with a knee issue. They think it might be overcompensating for his hamstring issue, but apparently his hamstrings are A-OK. I don't know if this is good or bad news for his performance, but if he can keep on being historically good I'll take it! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 03 2019 22:09 iX7 wrote: these are all very good points. hmmn, i wonder what you think is the reason Kawhi's numbers are down? Leonard has been limping around since the 5th game of the Philly series. Since then he has played 11 games. He is shooting 42.8% on 230 attempts and he is 30% from 3 on 60 attempts. This is Andrew Wiggins level efficiency. .. maybe even a bit worse. He is also turning over the ball a lot. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 04 2019 06:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Leonard has been limping around since the 5th game of the Philly series. Since then he has played 11 games. He is shooting 42.8% on 230 attempts and he is 30% from 3 on 60 attempts. This is Andrew Wiggins level efficiency. .. maybe even a bit worse. He is also turning over the ball a lot. He was pretty good in the bucks series. He hit some pretty big shotsin the philly series, he opens up the opportunity for others, and is preforming great in the "clutch" times, his defense is spectacular. He's still pretty damn good. https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/numbers-kawhi-leonards-2019-playoff-run-among-best-time/ I think Min would be pretty happy if Wiggins played like Kahwi has played since game the 5th game of the series. Since many people have been calling him the best player on the planet... | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 04 2019 07:00 JimmyJRaynor wrote: he was better when he was not limping around. NO KIDDING! This doesn't mean he still isn't great. Read some sources please, or source things you quote as facts or STFU, thank you. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
its hilarious that you agree with me and then go off on some tangent of things i've never said. Leonard's explosiveness and mobility are deteriorating as the playoffs progress. Nick Nurse is mis-using Kawhi Leonard. He has never played this volume of minutes before in his career. Given Kawhi Leonard has battled with overuse//RSI type injuries in the past two years this extra volume and work is going to make it difficult for Kawhi to recover from the quad tendonitis he has right now. Tendonitis is usually a short term injury. However, if you play on an injured tendon and you are in pain and you keep playing on it for weeks you end up in the situation Kawhi Leonard was in after the 2017 playoffs were over. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see history repeat itself. A tendon is a connective tissue that is very slow to heal because a tendon has very low blood circulation. If you need any sources for any of these well established facts about human physiology let me know. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/raptors-kawhi-leonard-sues-nike-for-copyrighting-logo-without-his-consent/ | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
You claimed VC shouldn't get his number raised because he didn't move the needle in Canada, no one watched on TV and he was a occasional all star during his 7 years. All this was proved false. I have said he is putting up all time numbers in the playoffs, you disagreed, I posted numerous articles stating that he is in fact putting up all time numbers in the playoffs. You have now moved to he hasn't played well since game 5 of the Philly series. At this point I just assumed you were wrong because you tend to just make stuff up, then if pushed maybe (sometimes just argue for the sake of it) find numbers that you confirm your position, and usually they don't even do that. So first point to how he has been since that point. His defense, eye test says phenomenal, commentators say it is awesome, numbers are always hard on defense but here is one. Giannis Points Per 100 by Defender (min. 100 matchups): 1. Kawhi Leonard ... 15.9 2. Blake Griffin ........ 31.2 3. Marvin Williams .. 31.7 4. Pascal Siakam ... 33.2 5. Noah Vonleh ...... 36.3 6. Thad Young ....... 37.1 7. Al Horford .......... 40.6 8. Joel Embiid ....... 51.0 He's averaging just under 2 steals and .6 blocks per game (averaged 1 per game in bucks series) For offensive stats he is averaging 32.5 points 10.2 reb 4.2 ast. Not as efficient from the floor but you are leaving out how he is getting to the line and hitting at a great rate making his over all offensive efficiency quite good considering the volume. 9.5 makes per game on 10.6 attempts so just under 90% from the line, which is amazing. So even though his slight declines in shooting it more than made up for in his free throw shooting, both how often he is getting to the line and then the incredible rate he is converting at. (if you need me to explain to you why FT are a big factor in offensive efficiency or how it is calculated, let me know and I'll be happy too) So I was right, you were just cherry picking things in attempts to show that your original assumption was true, when in fact it is also false. Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug. As to all your medical mumbo-jumbo you keep polluting the thread with, Kawhi has shown he is willing to go against team wishes if he feels they don't have his best interest at heart. So him playing tells you that he trusts the ACTUAL training staff and ACTUAL doctors that the Raptors have. If you knew even a little bit about what you spew you would know that the type of things you "diagnose" can't be done by simply watching. Now if you had broke the news that it was knee and not his hamstring that was bugging him, I'd be like maybe JJR actually knew something this time. But of course you didn't, because you don't know anything. You basically go to webmd and think that makes you qualified. Please just stop your embarrassing yourself. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
around game 10 he started noticably limping. since then he is 43% from the field overall and 30% from 3. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leonaka01/gamelog-playoffs/ He is getting slower and slower and less explosive and it shows in his #s. Every commentator I've watched has noticed Leonard slowing down. The medical stuff I've posted and backed up my points and BerserkSword and I have been through this discussion about how teams mishandle players injuries. I think that ended with you claiming BerserkSword was not a physician. On June 04 2019 09:26 JimmiC wrote: you spew you would know that the type of things you "diagnose" can't be done by simply watching. Cris Carter and multiple other sources from "The Athletic" say its quad tendonitis. Leonard has had right quad tendonitis off and on for years dating back to 2012. Its in the source i posted. "The Athletic" has a solid track record. It looks like quad tendonitis the way he is limping. Based on this info and Leonard's past history i'd say its quad tendonitis. As well, the Raptors are not revealing Kyle Lowry's thumb iinjury. So I don't expect the Raptors to reveal the nature of Leonard's problem. On June 04 2019 09:26 JimmiC wrote: As to all your medical mumbo-jumbo you keep polluting the thread its valid to have an understanding of tendonitis because of how many NBA players and people get it. Starcraft players often have to deal with tendonitis as well. On June 04 2019 09:26 JimmiC wrote: ACTUAL doctors that the Raptors have. improperly treated tendonitis can put someone in the exact situation Kawhi Leonard was in at the end of the playoffs in 2017. He had all this very expensive and highly experienced medical providers around him on the Spurs and somehow they botched it. Its debatable whether the Raptors medical staff is better or worse than the Spurs medical staff. If the Spurs can fuck it up... so can the Raptors. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
You argued with me about his historic numbers, the numbers in the tome period you said he is not, are historic. If you want to change that to, it is amazing that his numbers are still amazing and impressive against much better quality competition. Id agree. And your behind om your medical news its his knee because of the quad. And yes he disagreed with the spurs so he didnt play, he clearly agrees now. It might be debateable among medical professionals that have seen all his tests, not you based on whatever it is you base it on. https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/danny-green-kawhi-leonard-knee-issue/497450 Report: Kawhi battling sore knee originally caused by quad issue https://www.thescore.com/nba/news/1780057 | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
so it looks like he is playing on quad tendonitis as Cris Carter pointed out a while ago. The way Kawhi Leonard is limping it looks like Quad tendonitis is causing him pain. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Kevin looney is out for the playofs with a collarbone break. Klay is questionable with a hamstring strain or at least that is what the tests say. Perhaps JJR can tell us more based on the limp. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 04 2019 11:04 JimmiC wrote: What a keen medical eye you have to tell what different limps look like and diagnose from them. Mere mortals like me and doctors trust the mri's amd other tests. MRIs are not used for testing tendonitis dude. there is no structural damage when all you have is an inflammed tendon so the MRI is pointless. I've already listed several indicators that point towards quad tendonitis for Leonard. The limp itself is only 1 indicator. Typically , a GP or Physiotherapist will test for tendonitis by asking the patient a few questions and then gently placing 2 or 3 fingers very close to where the tendon meets the bone. They are feeling for inflammation. An inflammed area is warmer than body temperature. You're really learning a lot tonight. This is great. If you'd like to test this out go to your family DR and tell him or her you have "tennis elbow" in your right arm. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/report-klay-thompson-likely-questionable-game-3-nba-finals/ twitter.com | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 04 2019 11:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is a great observation by Stephen A. Smith. Blue Jays fans are just as lazy. Toronto ticket holders go to Raptors and BLue Jays games to "see and be seen"... they are not really hard core fans of the sports. Raptors tickets for game 2 were going for $1000+ and the fans still couldn't get back into their seats in time for the start of the 3rd quarter. sad stuff. Later on, Kellerman accurately points out that Leonard's legs are unhealthy and its wrecking his shooting. I've already provided the #s that illustrate this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJC5Z-xRzsQ MRIs are not used for testing tendonitis dude. there is no structural damage when all you have is an inflammed tendon so the MRI is pointless. I've already listed several indicators that point towards quad tendonitis for Leonard. The limp itself is only 1 indicator. Typically , a GP or Physiotherapist will test for tendonitis by asking the patient a few questions and then gently placing 2 or 3 fingers very close to where the tendon meets the bone. They are feeling for inflammation. An inflammed area is warmer than body temperature. You're really learning a lot tonight. This is great. If you'd like to test this out go to your family DR and tell him or her you have "tennis elbow" in your right arm. Yeppers! Hence why I said "and other tests" and if you look at the whole post im also talking about Klay and looneys injuries. But it shows how much you process since you posted the same thing a couple posts later. Why do you need to post shit off web md? We all have access if we cared we would go there ourselves. You are not a doctor with extra insight. Clutz that can be an issue, I suggest a sandwhich with bacon. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 04 2019 12:43 JimmiC wrote: Why do you need to post shit off web md? We all have access if we cared we would go there ourselves. You are not a doctor with extra insight. Didn't pull that off of WebMD. i've had tendonitis. its a common injury. i watched my family DR, my physiotherapist and my orthopaedic surgeon all do the same procedure that i just outlined when they diagnosed my tendonitis. tendonitis is not smallpox or some other rare malady. tendonitis is common. lots of people get it.. .and lots of people get it more than once. plenty of people who play sports get tendonitis more than once. On June 04 2019 12:43 JimmiC wrote: Klay and looneys injuries. But it shows how much you process since you posted the same thing a couple posts later. Your comment about Klay is incorrect and has no source. He is "likely questionable" as I stated.. with a source. I didn't want to bother to say "hey i'm correcting you" because that would be rather nit-picky. However, you want to bring it up. So here you go. Your comment about Klay is incorrect. I posted the correct prognosis for Klay with a source. Its a small nit-picky difference , however, you want to make some claim I do not process things properly. So here you go. I corrected your incorrect comment and included a source. Fun stuff eh? I'd rather talk about the NBA. Continued personal attacks will result in return fire though. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
And saying you are not a doctor and also that you have been posting things that are not factual are not personal attacks. They are facts. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://streamable.com/m5r66 | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
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iX7
32 Posts
On June 04 2019 10:38 JimmyJRaynor wrote: You do realize that the quadraceps tendons insertion point is the patella right? so it looks like he is playing on quad tendonitis as Cris Carter pointed out a while ago. The way Kawhi Leonard is limping it looks like Quad tendonitis is causing him pain. this is what really bothers me about Kawhi. Isnt it that Quad tendonitis is one of those deceiving injuries that look minor but are actually serious. idk. wouldnt rest and load management be recommended with this? On June 04 2019 10:35 JimmiC wrote: The stats I quoted are not the entire playoffs, they are from the times you posted. And yes his %s not from the line are down, but he is not inefficient because of his free throw line. There is also the factor that the bucks and the GSW are way better defensive teams than tge magic. could you provide some source for this? I really want to know if this is true, since im interested in stats also. On June 04 2019 12:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Didn't pull that off of WebMD. i've had tendonitis. its a common injury. i watched my family DR, my physiotherapist and my orthopaedic surgeon all do the same procedure that i just outlined when they diagnosed my tendonitis. tendonitis is not smallpox or some other rare malady. tendonitis is common. lots of people get it.. .and lots of people get it more than once. plenty of people who play sports get tendonitis more than once. I'd rather talk about the NBA. Continued personal attacks will result in return fire though. yes tendonities is quite common, especially athletes. its a bummer, and its sad to know that you suffer from it but its nice that you have a family doctor and physiotherapist and ortho surgeon take care of it. do you play ball competitively? i assume you do since its a kinda serious injury if you need a surgeon in your case. i have some knee pain myself, and would like to know more. mine is sometimes inflamed, but its normally just a gritting sensation that goes away randomly. should i be worried? | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
On June 03 2019 13:03 xDaunt wrote: That was a horrible loss for the Raptors. Getting dumpstered in the third quarter was bad enough. But failing to capitalize in the fourth with Looney and Klay out is inexcusable. If you can’t beat a team when three of its starters are out, then you’re simply soft. At least in this game Klay had the time to go nuclear before the injury. If the injury situation doesn't get better, the Raps will have a much deeper team than the Warriors in game 3. That is going to be the real test to see if they are indeed soft or not. Its going to be interesting to see how they handle being the favorites in a hostile environment. I think they'll fold, but I hope not because I like the Raps and I want to see a competitive series. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 04 2019 23:11 ZenithM wrote: Yeah if they lose Game 3 in these conditions, I will revise my "Raptors are still favored" assessment and say they lose easily haha. Yeah my faith will go way down if they lose game 3, especially if Durrant is not back and Klay is out or even hobbled. And if they head back to Toronto down 3-1 I'll put their chances at like 1%. I think it is wildly important for them to at least split on the road. | ||
Gzerble
82 Posts
The Warriors on the other hand through a lot of bad luck have injuries pile up at the wrong time, and have had Curry falling off his feet in the fourth (most extreme case was when he played the entire second half to sweep the Blazers). Looney's importance this run cannot be understated, and he's not coming back. He's shaped up to be mobile, a fantastic PnR defender, and a seamless addition to nearly any Warriors lineup. KD's injury is a big deal. Before KD's injury, the Warriors averaged a whopping 119.5 points a game, in the full games since, they have not reached that mark in any one game. They've stepped up the defense, sure... but they were starting to do that against the Rockets anyways. Let's not forget that Igoudala's health has been a recurring issue these playoffs, and his part of the Warrior's system is massive. I think the Warriors are in a way mirroring the Cavs run in 2015 - even if Curry is that good, KD is the second most important player to the Warriors, and Klay the third. If Klay comes back at 50% for the rest of the series, then unless KD comes back I don't see the Warriors managing to win three of the next five, no matter if Kawhi's injury continues to limit him. Curry is unbelievable, but he needs a reliable second option to dismantle a defense, and Toronto have so many options. Of course, if KD's coming back game 4 and Klay just shrugs his injury off, then Toronto are in for a rougher time than they've ever had before. All that being said, I feel that Toronto are favored in game 3. If they manage to take it, then the Warriors need to figure something out. They've managed this quite a few times under Kerr (being down 1-2 and winning the series), but their roster being depleted definitely limits possibilities for that (which, to be fair, "Kevin Durant wins the game on his own" is such a possibility). | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26895123/derozan-was-sacrificial-lamb-raptors-climb | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Game 3, Durant out, Looney out (series), Klay day to day. Still, Raptors 4-2. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 01:30 Gzerble wrote: All that being said, I feel that Toronto are favored in game 3. If they manage to take it, then the Warriors need to figure something out. They've managed this quite a few times under Kerr (being down 1-2 and winning the series), but their roster being depleted definitely limits possibilities for that (which, to be fair, "Kevin Durant wins the game on his own" is such a possibility). KD is the series changer here. Warriors have no depth but they are so top-heavy and experienced that they can do with limited rotation. Toronto just needs to grind and play the numbers. Gasol and Siakam needs to be more present on defense. Lowry is trash. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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What the Computers Knew About the Raptors Before We Did So nobody believed in the Raptors. Or, no group of people did, anyway. The computers were comparatively enamored of Toronto’s chances. FiveThirtyEight favored Toronto. ESPN’s Basketball Power Index calculated the split at Golden State, 52 percent; Toronto, 48. Basketball-Reference’s formula spit out a result in the same range. A University of Toronto statistics professor’s model gave Toronto a slight edge. But after Toronto more than held its own through two games of the Finals, split two games at home, and nearly took a 2-0 series lead, those computers look more prescient than they did a week ago—or at least more prescient than all the people who doubted them. That heuristic is a bit less useful in this series because the two teams ended up with nearly identical regular-season results. Toronto finished with a 58-24 record, one win ahead of Golden State, while the Warriors posted a better point differential by just 0.4 net points per game. The point here, however, isn’t to pick at those small differences to try to identify the better team, but rather to acknowledge that those numbers are darn close. We should have expected this series to be close, too. Some models don’t account for injuries and midseason transactions and instead just look at past team success, but for those that do, Durant’s uncertain health proved the final factor that balanced the two teams’ odds. FiveThirtyEight’s Nate Silver wrote that Golden State would have been roughly a 2-to-1 favorite by FiveThirtyEight’s calculation if both teams were fully healthy—a ratio more in line with the public perception. TR | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Raptors improvement in team play was very difficult to project. I knew the Raptors would get better ,but I didn't think they'd improve as much as they did. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 07:33 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The Raptors starting line up only had 160 minutes of playing time together. The team jelled as they progressed through the playoffs. The Raptors team defense is much better than it was 6 weeks ago. Raptors improvement in team play was very difficult to project. I knew the Raptors would get better ,but I didn't think they'd improve as much as they did. This post represents all the justifications for maths-based sports analytics over human analysis. Let me explain. I won't go on the amount or absence of any meaningful content of the post since JJ's discussion style is pretty known here, but I will focus on the approach. Circa 2013 when Harden was up and coming and Spurs was the hot shit with lactic acid level count, mileage, 3 and D and all those stuff, there was a media conference where people from 538 and MIT Sloan where invited to help us poor media people understand this emerging trend. There were heavy discussions on calculus and even sports espionage work (on which player broke up with his girl days before a game, etc. ITS A THING!!!), but my ultimate take home lesson is this: the understanding and analysis of the game become data-driven, whether the conclusion is right or wrong. There is no room for coulda, shoula, woulda, didnt expect X to do Y, who thought Z was possible. The being right or wrong aspect here can't be emphasized enough. When 10 people are looking at the same data and arrive at different conclusions, at least all of them can go back to the data and discuss why they differed. On the other hand, JJ's statement could be pretty much summarized as "I didnt know theyd do that, but they did that, hence results." So 538 and all these math guys could be wrong, but there are SPECIFIC things we can talk about. In fact, here's a kicker, last week days before game 2 (if you know anyone who work in tv production, ask them about this, they can verify this), MIT released a cred sheet predicting the Warriors victory based on the following:
That's it. JJ, dont bother replying to me since my post is not specifically about you but about the kind of game observation that you and others post on the interwebz. But you may post in order to explain: 1. what numerically you mean by "jelled as they progressed" 2. objective measurement of "improve as much as they did" 3. why you didnt know these things The points above are objective and measurable NBA points that people could have a normal and healthy conversation on. If you won't address these, which are the key points I raise here, but you really want talk about something, talk to JimmiC, you two still have an ongoing debate. I'm really not interested in bringing up data points only to be answered by your odd takes and wild self-styled analysis of the game. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Nobody believed in the Raptors. In The Ringer’s NBA Finals preview, every writer picked the Warriors to win, and nobody thought the series would last seven games. Their definition of "nobody" is their group of experts. Lots of experts picked the Raptors to beat the Bucks. Half of ESPN's analysts had the Bucks winning. Half had the Raptors winning. The Raptors were down 0-2 with game 3 going into double OT. The Raptors hung by a thread. As a group ESPN's batch of experts pretty much nailed the state of the Bucks//Raptors series. As for teh Warriors//Raptors series. Its still going on. Regardless of the outcomes a single 7 game series is not a good test for whether or not a projection method is a success or a failure. On June 05 2019 12:33 Twinkle Toes wrote: I'm really not interested in bringing up data points only to be answered by your odd takes and wild self-styled analysis of the game. Then don't reply to my comments. Do not bring me up several times in your post if you do not want a reply. Anyhow, my analysis is simple and straightforward. There is not much data to go on because the Raptors starting lineup has not played together very much. On June 05 2019 12:33 Twinkle Toes wrote: So 538 and all these math guys could be wrong, but there are SPECIFIC things we can talk about. In fact, here's a kicker, last week days before game 2 .... The U of T math professor stated his model looks at what teams did in the regular season. Well, Jonas, Delon Wright, and CJ Miles left in February. Patrick Mccaw and Marc Gasol were acquired in February. OG Anunoby played in the regular season and has not played in the playoffs. So the "math guy" at U of T who spent 2 hours jamming together something to project a winner created something meaningless because its based on a Raptors team that no longer exists. The U of T math prof's projection for the Warriors/Raptors series doesn't means much. Its entertaining. That's about it. https://www.thestar.com/sports/raptors/2019/05/30/raptors-have-slight-edge-to-win-nba-finals-toronto-statistician-predicts.html | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 05 2019 12:33 Twinkle Toes wrote: This post represents all the justifications for maths-based sports analytics over human analysis. Let me explain. I won't go on the amount or absence of any meaningful content of the post since JJ's discussion style is pretty known here, but I will focus on the approach. Circa 2013 when Harden was up and coming and Spurs was the hot shit with lactic acid level count, mileage, 3 and D and all those stuff, there was a media conference where people from 538 and MIT Sloan where invited to help us poor media people understand this emerging trend. There were heavy discussions on calculus and even sports espionage work (on which player broke up with his girl days before a game, etc. ITS A THING!!!), but my ultimate take home lesson is this: the understanding and analysis of the game become data-driven, whether the conclusion is right or wrong. There is no room for coulda, shoula, woulda, didnt expect X to do Y, who thought Z was possible. The being right or wrong aspect here can't be emphasized enough. When 10 people are looking at the same data and arrive at different conclusions, at least all of them can go back to the data and discuss why they differed. On the other hand, JJ's statement could be pretty much summarized as "I didnt know theyd do that, but they did that, hence results." So 538 and all these math guys could be wrong, but there are SPECIFIC things we can talk about. In fact, here's a kicker, last week days before game 2 (if you know anyone who work in tv production, ask them about this, they can verify this), MIT released a cred sheet predicting the Warriors victory based on the following:
That's it. JJ, dont bother replying to me since my post is not specifically about you but about the kind of game observation that you and others post on the interwebz. But you may post in order to explain: 1. what numerically you mean by "jelled as they progressed" 2. objective measurement of "improve as much as they did" 3. why you didnt know these things The points above are objective and measurable NBA points that people could have a normal and healthy conversation on. If you won't address these, which are the key points I raise here, but you really want talk about something, talk to JimmiC, you two still have an ongoing debate. I'm really not interested in bringing up data points only to be answered by your odd takes and wild self-styled analysis of the game. I would say that I think this is also an appeal of the rise of gambling. It actually gives people real accountability. I don't have FS1, but they have Lock it In, and they show how much each of their people is up or down money for the week/month/year. Most people end up tracking their things, even Cowherd will say something like, "Bad week with my bets, went 1-4" and the like. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 13:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Then don't reply to my comments. Do not bring me up several times in your post if you do not want a reply. Anyhow, my analysis is simple and straightforward. There is not much data to go on because the Raptors starting lineup has not played together very much. - I replied to you explaining that your statement is a specific example of deteriorating sports fan discourse. - I bring you up a few times to cite a bad example. My specific point was to illustrate how posts like yours exemplify this terrible practice among these wannabe analysts. All fluff and analysis based on resuls (as JVG would say), and no real content nor accountability. This is not about you at all, I made that clear as day. I only used your post as an example since yours is the most glaring and abundantly available here on tl. If you insist on replying, reply to these: 1. what numerically you mean by "jelled as they progressed" 2. objective measurement of "improve as much as they did" 3. why you didnt know these things If you reply but not to the three points above, which are actual NBA discussion topics in contrast to you having a heart attack and being defensive about your posts, then its clear you fail hard at understanding what a normal and healthy conversation is like. tldr: JJ dont be emotional and defensive, lets be mentally focused and mature and stick to NBA talk. explain: 1. what numerically you mean by "jelled as they progressed" 2. objective measurement of "improve as much as they did" 3. why you didnt know these things | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 13:32 cLutZ wrote: I would say that I think this is also an appeal of the rise of gambling. It actually gives people real accountability. I don't have FS1, but they have Lock it In, and they show how much each of their people is up or down money for the week/month/year. Most people end up tracking their things, even Cowherd will say something like, "Bad week with my bets, went 1-4" and the like. Great point. semi-related, but isnt it that odds makers tend to also sway betting trends one way or the other for reasons other than stats, like say to manipulate wins? I dont bet, and dont understand the mechanics, but I gotta say it seems shady to me. Or maybe thats me just being opposed to gambling in general, idk. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26898017/lowry-vows-more-aggressive-game-3 On June 05 2019 14:15 Twinkle Toes wrote: n[b][big]tldr: JJ dont be emotional and defensive, lets be mentally focused and mature and stick to NBA talk. don't attempt to assess my emotional state based on a forum post. as you've stated.. stick to the NBA | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 05 2019 14:19 Twinkle Toes wrote: Great point. semi-related, but isnt it that odds makers tend to also sway betting trends one way or the other for reasons other than stats, like say to manipulate wins? I dont bet, and dont understand the mechanics, but I gotta say it seems shady to me. Or maybe thats me just being opposed to gambling in general, idk. The goal of an oddsmaker (usually) is to get people to bet 50% on each side. This is because they make money on the VIG, not on people losing. They are not perfect. Game 1: The line was Toronto -2, both teams were -110 to start (bet $110 to win $100) Warriors received 65% of the betting tickets, so most books moved them to -120 at some point. Game 2: Line Toronto -1.5 Warriors received 70% of bets. Line moved in most places to -2 and or -125. Game 3: Golden State is -5 in most places and getting ~ 40% of bets. So, yea, casinos aren't perfect, but they dont try to pick games, they try to predict people's pre-game inclinations. Professional bettors try to pick games, and those people have to win something like 57% of the time to beat the casino, and that is apparently very hard. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 15:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its going to be interesting to see how Lowry can manage to be more aggressive and at the same time stay out of foul trouble. https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26898017/lowry-vows-more-aggressive-game-3 don't attempt to assess my emotional state based on a forum post. as you've stated.. stick to the NBA But you always get upset and uncomfortable when called out, like you are now. This is why you always have chaotic discussions with JimmiC and everyone here since you easily get emotional and mentally fazed. But I get you JJ, I understand you completely. All I want is for us to have an objective and mature NBA conversation. Nothing less or more. If thats impossible for you, then let us continue to ignore each other. Starting now. [B]On June 05 2019 15:11 cLutZ wrote: The goal of an oddsmaker (usually) is to get people to bet 50% on each side. This is because they make money on the VIG, not on people losing. They are not perfect. Game 1: The line was Toronto -2, both teams were -110 to start (bet $110 to win $100) Warriors received 65% of the betting tickets, so most books moved them to -120 at some point. Game 2: Line Toronto -1.5 Warriors received 70% of bets. Line moved in most places to -2 and or -125. Game 3: Golden State is -5 in most places and getting ~ 40% of bets. So, yea, casinos aren't perfect, but they dont try to pick games, they try to predict people's pre-game inclinations. Professional bettors try to pick games, and those people have to win something like 57% of the time to beat the casino, and that is apparently very hard. Thanks for explaining. VIG and stuff seems to heavy for me. Question, professional bettors are separate from casinos? How are betting lines decided? | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 05 2019 15:46 Twinkle Toes wrote: But you always get upset and uncomfortable when called out, like you are now. no i don't. i explained the flaws in the article you sourced. you have not addressed them. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 05 2019 15:46 Twinkle Toes wrote: But you always get upset and uncomfortable when called out, like you are now. This is why you always have chaotic discussions with JimmiC and everyone here since you easily get emotional and mentally fazed. But I get you JJ, I understand you completely. All I want is for us to have an objective and mature NBA conversation. Nothing less or more. If thats impossible for you, then let us continue to ignore each other. Starting now. Thanks for explaining. VIG and stuff seems to heavy for me. Question, professional bettors are separate from casinos? How are betting lines decided? Betting lines are made by in-house experts and they shift based on betting. Professional bettors are a separate thing. Lines don't intend to predict the result of a game. They predict bets. Professional bettors use that and bet against the"rubes", so like if Duke is a 49 point favorite against a good mid major, they bet against Duke, while the people blic bets Duke. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 18:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: no i don't. i explained the flaws in the article you sourced. you have not addressed them. See. again your being emotional when you are challenged is preventing you from being rational in this conversation. I posted the article as I have done hundreds of other relevant ones for discussion purposes. In ALL of those times, NOT one challenged me to address the article, because that would be an abnormal thing to do. Everyone knows that I did not write them nor stand by them with strong personal conviction, so EVERYONE, except you, know better than to challenge me to address them. If a person disagrees with them, while another agrees with them, then they will naturally debate those points. You childishly asking me to address your points is like a gradeschool bully agitating his classmate. Its cute, but very odd behaviour. I will explain it with fewer words. We were not having a debate about the Ringer article. You disagree with it, I dont care. Someone who disagrees with you will debate you on it. We, however, are having a debate on your statement regarding you not expecting Raptors to be this good, and you not knowing things. Now, if you want to be rational and continue the actual debate you do either of these: 1. Concede and keep quiet on the topic because obviously you dont have the facts to refute my criticism of your statement + Show Spoiler [(see my full post here] + On June 05 2019 07:33 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The Raptors starting line up only had 160 minutes of playing time together. The team jelled as they progressed through the playoffs. The Raptors team defense is much better than it was 6 weeks ago. Raptors improvement in team play was very difficult to project. I knew the Raptors would get better ,but I didn't think they'd improve as much as they did. This post represents all the justifications for maths-based sports analytics over human analysis. Let me explain. I won't go on the amount or absence of any meaningful content of the post since JJ's discussion style is pretty known here, but I will focus on the approach. Circa 2013 when Harden was up and coming and Spurs was the hot shit with lactic acid level count, mileage, 3 and D and all those stuff, there was a media conference where people from 538 and MIT Sloan where invited to help us poor media people understand this emerging trend. There were heavy discussions on calculus and even sports espionage work (on which player broke up with his girl days before a game, etc. ITS A THING!!!), but my ultimate take home lesson is this: the understanding and analysis of the game become data-driven, whether the conclusion is right or wrong. There is no room for coulda, shoula, woulda, didnt expect X to do Y, who thought Z was possible. The being right or wrong aspect here can't be emphasized enough. When 10 people are looking at the same data and arrive at different conclusions, at least all of them can go back to the data and discuss why they differed. On the other hand, JJ's statement could be pretty much summarized as "I didnt know theyd do that, but they did that, hence results." So 538 and all these math guys could be wrong, but there are SPECIFIC things we can talk about. In fact, here's a kicker, last week days before game 2 (if you know anyone who work in tv production, ask them about this, they can verify this), MIT released a cred sheet predicting the Warriors victory based on the following:
That's it. JJ, dont bother replying to me since my post is not specifically about you but about the kind of game observation that you and others post on the interwebz. But you may post in order to explain: 1. what numerically you mean by "jelled as they progressed" 2. objective measurement of "improve as much as they did" 3. why you didnt know these things The points above are objective and measurable NBA points that people could have a normal and healthy conversation on. If you won't address these, which are the key points I raise here, but you really want talk about something, talk to JimmiC, you two still have an ongoing debate. I'm really not interested in bringing up data points only to be answered by your odd takes and wild self-styled analysis of the game. or, 2 address my criticism against the statement that you made and believed as true, but explaining: >> 1. what numerically you mean by "jelled as they progressed" >> 2. objective measurement of "improve as much as they did" >> 3. why you didnt know these things I have a feeling you will just double down and refuse to reply with valid and coherent points, and yet pretend like you are winning, like you always do, so consider this as my farewell to this little conversation of ours. Bye JJ. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 18:34 cLutZ wrote: Betting lines are made by in-house experts and they shift based on betting. Professional bettors are a separate thing. Lines don't intend to predict the result of a game. They predict bets. Professional bettors use that and bet against the"rubes", so like if Duke is a 49 point favorite against a good mid major, they bet against Duke, while the people blic bets Duke. Interesting, you are making me want to know about this. So essentially betting is a meta game to balance the perceived fairness of bets being placed in relation to how the teams compare to each other... would that be a correct assessment? That is more complex and sophisticated that I thought, wow! | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
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(writing 10s and 20s was trippy. in my mind, 2000 was just 5 or 10 years ago, but it was actually 20 years ago!!!) https://streamable.com/89fgg | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 05 2019 23:31 JimmiC wrote: Casinos (and other places that accept bets) also move the line with the betting to keep 50% on each side. Many pro gamblers attempt to take advantage of this by ending up with betting on both teams at different scores or rates.It is easier to see in long bets, for example if someone bet on toronto to win at the start of the season 100$ at 10-1 (all made up numbers for ez maths) then when GS and TO make the final they bet 500 on gs 1-1. So if TO wins they make 500 (1000 win on 100 bet on TO 500 loss on GS) or if GS wins they make 400 (500 win on gs and 100 loss on GS). So instead of only having a chance to win 1000 they made it so they can win either way. Oh i see. I saw a CSI episode on this a long time ago. Is this common knowledge? If so, this would make the betting industry unreliable or unstable. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
“Look, it wasn’t his fault,” Rose wrote of Butler’s situation and trade request. “It’s the league’s fault. Nothing against Karl-Anthony Towns, he’s cool — and he’s good. But you get these kids and you spoil them before they achieve something.” One page later, Rose adds: “Jimmy was feeling, ‘Why’d y’all pay them first and I was the one that got you to the playoffs?’ That’s all it was. Jimmy wasn’t doing it right, though he was right.” Source | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
NBA FINALS 2019 KEYS TO GAME 3 NBA Canada The injury report - Kevin Durant (calf) [might return game 4] - Andre Iguodala (calf) - Kevon Looney (collarbone) [out for season] - Klay Thompson (hamstring) DeMarcus Cousins' impact - only 8 mins in game 1 - starter in game 2, 11p/10r/6a/2b - only 6 weeks removed from major injury Ball movement As alluded to before, Golden State assisted on 34 of its 38 (89.5%) made field goals in the game while Toronto assisted on just 17 of its 35 (48.6%) made field goals. It's just the fourth time this postseason that the Raptors have dished out 17 or fewer assists, and the team is 1-3 in such games. The one win? The grind-it-out 92-90 win over the 76ers in Game 7 of the Eastern Conference Semifinals. Kawhi's return to Oracle May 14, 2017. It's been over two years since Leonard's last appearance at Oracle Arena but it was certainly a memorable one for a number of reasons. In Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals, Leonard torched the Warriors for 26 points (7-13 FG, 11-11 FT) and eight rebounds, doing so in under 24 minutes as an ankle injury he suffered just four minutes into the second half would ultimately end his season. At the time, the Spurs had built a 23-point lead over the Warriors, who would come back to earn a two-point win. | ||
KOFgokuon
United States14883 Posts
On June 05 2019 23:31 JimmiC wrote: Casinos (and other places that accept bets) also move the line with the betting to keep 50% on each side. Many pro gamblers attempt to take advantage of this by ending up with betting on both teams at different scores or rates.It is easier to see in long bets, for example if someone bet on toronto to win at the start of the season 100$ at 10-1 (all made up numbers for ez maths) then when GS and TO make the final they bet 500 on gs 1-1. So if TO wins they make 500 (1000 win on 100 bet on TO 500 loss on GS) or if GS wins they make 400 (500 win on gs and 100 loss on GS). So instead of only having a chance to win 1000 they made it so they can win either way. I would argue that hedging your bet (which you’re describing) is not really the same as betting both sides due to a shifting line. In the former you’re guaranteed money either way whereas if a line swings significantly and you bet both sides you can still lose both bets if something weird happens | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 06 2019 07:36 KOFgokuon wrote: I would argue that hedging your bet (which you’re describing) is not really the same as betting both sides due to a shifting line. In the former you’re guaranteed money either way whereas if a line swings significantly and you bet both sides you can still lose both bets if something weird happens You are right, I just thought it was easier to explain that getting both sides of a game and how the middle becomes your big win and the outsides because a break even. To: TT It is fairly common knowledge but actually pulling it off is pretty hard because you have to know which way a line will move on the both sides, and get the first part right on the hedging. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
i wonder what's up with Norm... | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Raptors should really pull away fast. Damn if there ever was a time to beat Warriors, this is it! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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xDaunt
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JimmyJRaynor
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xDaunt
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On June 06 2019 13:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: There is a massive party extending about 4km north//south on the main street that cuts through the middle of Toronto. God help us if the Raptors actually win the NBA championship. Eh, I don't see it happening. Tonight's win is not replicable. Klay and, potentially, Durant will be back next game. The refs aren't going to screw over the Warriors as badly in the future. The Warriors bench won't shoot as badly next time. And the Raptors aren't going to make nearly as many ridiculous shots. Damned near everything went the Raptors' way tonight. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 06 2019 07:04 Twinkle Toes wrote: Oh i see. I saw a CSI episode on this a long time ago. Is this common knowledge? If so, this would make the betting industry unreliable or unstable. It actually makes it much more stable from a casino's POV, the number of people who "middle" is exceptionally low, and the number of dollars represented in that zone are also small. Remember, its also possible for someone "middling" to lose both bets. | ||
Disregard
China10252 Posts
On June 06 2019 13:14 xDaunt wrote: Eh, I don't see it happening. Tonight's win is not replicable. Klay and, potentially, Durant will be back next game. The refs aren't going to screw over the Warriors as badly in the future. The Warriors bench won't shoot as badly next time. And the Raptors aren't going to make nearly as many ridiculous shots. Damned near everything went the Raptors' way tonight. It's more of the lack of Klay that Lowry and Danny are always open for the tre. Many of the threes Lowry was taking today the defender was giving him too much space and Iggy for the Dubs is gonna be bad shooting wise regardless. . | ||
JimmiC
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JimmyJRaynor
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On June 06 2019 13:14 xDaunt wrote: Eh, I don't see it happening. Tonight's win is not replicable. Klay and, potentially, Durant will be back next game. The refs aren't going to screw over the Warriors as badly in the future. The Warriors bench won't shoot as badly next time. And the Raptors aren't going to make nearly as many ridiculous shots. Damned near everything went the Raptors' way tonight. meh, the Raptors outplayed Golden State and deserved to win the game. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 06 2019 13:14 xDaunt wrote: Eh, I don't see it happening. Tonight's win is not replicable. Klay and, potentially, Durant will be back next game. The refs aren't going to screw over the Warriors as badly in the future. The Warriors bench won't shoot as badly next time. And the Raptors aren't going to make nearly as many ridiculous shots. Damned near everything went the Raptors' way tonight. I don't think I can disagree with a take more, aside from the Klay and Durant possibility. First, the refs were great for the Dubs. Sure they were pretty bad overall, and in the past I've thought they got screwed a lot, but I don't think they earned more than 6fts tonight. And the laughable charges. Second Steph going that nuclear is also hard to replicate, and without it they get smashed. Third Looney still is out for the series and if Klay/Durant aren't going at a high % its going to be a slog. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 06 2019 13:14 xDaunt wrote: Eh, I don't see it happening. Tonight's win is not replicable. Klay and, potentially, Durant will be back next game. The refs aren't going to screw over the Warriors as badly in the future. The Warriors bench won't shoot as badly next time. And the Raptors aren't going to make nearly as many ridiculous shots. Damned near everything went the Raptors' way tonight. First, the Warriors bench is dreadful talent-wise, second you can always also say that Curry will not score 47 again (similarly to Lebron's 50 point one-man carry last finals). These Warriors + Klay are still at a disadvantage vs the Raptors, believe it or not. People overestimate the Warriors' ability to outplay the Raptors' defense consistently. Yes, they play well, yes, they have an unbelievable trio, but they also have the garbage next to them that can be exploited. Of course if Durant comes back it's another story. Edit: On another note I'm starting to buy in on the Curry hype (not the hype that says he's an MVP contender, the one that says he's a top 5 all-time offensive player). I was always more on the "Curry is a rich man's Damian Lillard" train, especially given his way better supporting cast, but Lillard couldn't score that efficiently on these Raptors. The Nurkic-less Blazers are not better than these Klay-less Durant-less Warriors, but if all it takes to "enable" Curry is a couple of good passers, good coaching and a couple of good screeners, that's just impressive. It's not exactly high requirements. His ability and willingness to do all sorts of things off the ball as a star PG are inspiring. That being said I still believe the league hasn't fully adapted defensively and will get better as time passes if we see a rise in Curry-like players, but that alone already says a lot about his impact on the game. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On a personal note, this game proves Curry's legacy to me. To add to Zenith, Curry is goat shooter, and legit on defense. He seems to have shed of his stupid 2016 antics. And although I cant help but notice some not nice guy rearing its head on rare occasions under the cookie-cutter nice guy media-managed persona but it proves to me that he is an all-time great with the correct team-guy attitude. I understand that he also has a legacy to build and a brand to protect but hey, I dont look at Curry as a role model and I dont plan to be his friend, so those stuff are irrelevant, unless he does something criminal. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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52/45/95. WOW! | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Fuck Paul Pierce. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Curry Can’t Do It Alone Game 3 didn’t just bring that now-old-school Curry phenomenon back for a game; it also provided a glimpse of what Curry might look like if he were to adopt Russell Westbrook–like usage. Because no other Warrior besides Curry could consistently hit a shot, he had to become the version of Curry many have longed to see, not the #StrengthInNumbers facilitator, but the blinding supernova. At halftime, he had 25 points to the rest of the team’s 27, four 3s to the team’s one, and seven field goals to the team’s nine. In the second half, Curry put up 22 and finished with more field goals than the rest of the starting lineup combined. He ended up with 47 of the Warriors’ 109 points—a playoff career-high—on 31 shots. But Golden State probably needed him to go for 60. In his last six playoff games, Green, who was a killer for the Spurs in the Finals of years past, had made a total of six 3s. In Game 3, he hit six on 10 attempts (he also added a couple of crucial plays on the defensive end, including a savage chase-down block on Quinn Cook). Larry O’Brien is looking down from basketball heaven and frowning. This is not what he’s used to seeing from the Warriors roster. It’s not what he’s come to expect of the team that’s owned his trophy three of the past four seasons. He sees Quinn Cook driving to the basket and getting stuffed twice, playing 29 minutes and ending up with a minus-8. He side-eyes Jonas Jerebko, who air-balls a 3 and finishes 1-of-6, and he sighs as Jordan Bell freezes up on defense, Alfonzo McKinnie makes one shot in 18 minutes, and Andrew Bogut records six points in 22 minutes. These Finals are not supposed to look like this, but here we are. Game 3 was a dark reality for the Warriors. Where Steph shined, nearly everyone else failed. TR | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 06 2019 22:13 Twinkle Toes wrote: Imma share this:
On a personal note, this game proves Curry's legacy to me. To add to Zenith, Curry is goat shooter, and legit on defense. He seems to have shed of his stupid 2016 antics. And although I cant help but notice some not nice guy rearing its head on rare occasions under the cookie-cutter nice guy media-managed persona but it proves to me that he is an all-time great with the correct team-guy attitude. I understand that he also has a legacy to build and a brand to protect but hey, I dont look at Curry as a role model and I dont plan to be his friend, so those stuff are irrelevant, unless he does something criminal. Lowry is a beast, I totally disagree with you. At times this playoffs he has been their best player. Bogut is done, if they are expecting to get much or anything out of him this is Raps series easy. Warriors need to get healthy the Raptors are too good vs this version and if they make shots like they did last night they could beat the full squad. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 06 2019 23:01 JimmiC wrote: Lowry is a beast, I totally disagree with you. At times this playoffs he has been their best player. Bogut is done, if they are expecting to get much or anything out of him this is Raps series easy. Warriors need to get healthy the Raptors are too good vs this version and if they make shots like they did last night they could beat the full squad. Look at it this way. Lowry is +8 when he is best, and -20 when he is worst. As mentioned about, those errors and natural flaws in his game are hidden by his late quarter points and the teams overall effort. So he can do all this good things, but once he reverts to his natural trashy instincts, he has the capacity to single-handedly hijack Toronto's chances and sink the team. Bogut should be installed back to his 2015 role as an anchor/in between passer and take over the position from Cousins. That was among the rare non-Curry positive from the game. They need Klay to be 55% favored, and KD to be 100% winners. (numbers made up, but a rough representation of reality) Btw JC, these are aggregate-sourced cred sheets we get sent at work. But I agree with them, so you may challenge me on these takes and I will respond to you accordingly. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
2015 bogut was a lot more mobile then he is now. There was a reason he was out of the NBA until the playoffs. If you need 10 minutes or something from him fine, but if you need a bunch more I don't think he has it in him! | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
As others have observed: Lowry is a streaky 3 point shooter. When his long bomb is falling the only point guard in the NBA better than he is ... is Steph Curry. At this point in his career Lowry is probably the smartest defender at his position. Its between Lowry and Chris Paul. Right now, I'd give the nod to Lowry. He is the middle-line-backer//QB of the Toronto defense. http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/1 | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 06 2019 23:13 JimmiC wrote: + - is far from telling the whole story. He is playing through a pretty major thumb injury, takes charges, plays hard 100% of the time. If he wasn't helping Nurse would take him out. I'm completely happy with him. 2015 bogut was a lot more mobile then he is now. There was a reason he was out of the NBA until the playoffs. If you need 10 minutes or something from him fine, but if you need a bunch more I don't think he has it in him! +- is not JJR +-, but its a rough placeholder to illustrate what he can contribute (which is why as you can see the numbers are whack). He is valuable, no doubt about that (hence the gold in fool's gold), but I think the point of the analysis is not to rely on his performance so much as you would with other prime superstars, as Lowry has the natural tendency to make the worst blunders (as pointed out earlier). If those are limited, then we get good results, but there is that constant danger of Lowry turning to trash Lowry anytime, Wasnt he out because he was in AUS, as MVP. Kerr needs Boguts passing and spacing for Curry and the Warriors offense. | ||
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Twinkle Toes
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Today is a good day! | ||
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Jerubaal
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JimmyJRaynor
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Blake Murphy is very reliable and here is his view on Thompson and Durant playing in game 4. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 06 2019 22:13 Twinkle Toes wrote: Imma share this: [list=ordered][*]KD may be out for game 4. Calf pain still present. If he plays game 4, its a desperation move My sources are impeccable. They knew it waaaaaay before anyone on twitter, r/nba, etc. even had any idea. They were right about KD to warriors and Lebron to Lakers too, although the Kawhi to Raptors blindsided them. Back to KD, this is the correct decision. an aggravated injury could cost him his career. And he could, if healthy, return by game 5 for the epic superhero here-i-come-to-save-the-day type comeback and win it all for the Warriors. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
We truly are in the era of overreaction. This is iffy for more than just the "beautiful game", "quite", "put in jail", "let it manifest into my thinking" (DAFUQ???!), and those #. GSW officials are already dealing with it, in the best possible way, no need to be overdramatic about it. Goddamn! | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
This apparently opens up a max slot on the nets with them hoping to get Durrant and possibly Kyrie. At this point considering ages, attitude and health I'm not 100% sure I'd rather have Kyrie then Russell. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
jk | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://streamable.com/haa08 | ||
Jerubaal
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https://twitter.com/espn/status/1136491567177437184/video/1 ABC | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
No way dude pushes Lowry at the bar or something. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 07 2019 23:25 JimmiC wrote: The rule should be if your touch a player the player gets the option of a MMA fight with you the next day, if you don't take it you are banned for life. No way dude pushes Lowry at the bar or something. The rule should be every fan gets a rotten tomato at the beginning of the game. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Steve Kerr needs to learn how to be a better liar. Kerr looks so bad in this interview. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 08 2019 02:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is a nice look at the "game within a game" between Leonard and Popovich. Steve Kerr needs to learn how to be a better liar. Kerr looks so bad in this interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiYW_pdcYWA Is it? Or is it some racist conspiracy theorist exaggerating normal behavior into a grand revenge plot? | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 08 2019 06:17 cLutZ wrote: Is it? Or is it some racist conspiracy theorist exaggerating normal behavior into a grand revenge plot? Thank you. It defines conspiracy theory. If either wanted to do something sneaky, they would use their phones not go out to public dinner. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 08 2019 06:17 cLutZ wrote: Is it? Or is it some racist conspiracy theorist exaggerating normal behavior into a grand revenge plot? On June 08 2019 06:27 JimmiC wrote: Thank you. It defines conspiracy theory. Conspiracy requires crime. There is no crime. Watch the entire interview: Kerr acknowledged later on in the interview that he and fellow coaches consult each other and discuss other players. Thus , I'd say its well within the realm of possibility they discussed Leonard. The stare down was funny though. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Of course friends who are in the same profession discuss it. But did Pop give Kerr 5 files of secret details about kawhi not only the bball player but also the man. Come on man. There is a reason that video has so few views, no one should take stuff like the serious. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 08 2019 08:00 JimmiC wrote: It does not. "secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful." And the insinuation is that they were there to do something harmful to Kawhi. Its not a secret plan. Later in the interview Kerr backed off his silly position and said coaches meet and talk about other players all the time. #2. the harmful thing must be unlawful. If a conspiracy includes "harm" and no crime then every boxing team is engaged in a conspiracy to harm the opposition boxer. many boxers have died with zero criminal charges. Boxing teams are not engaged in a conspiracy and basketball coaches who talk about how to win games are not involved in a conspiracy either. On June 08 2019 08:00 JimmiC wrote: But did Pop give Kerr 5 files of secret details about kawhi not only the bball player but also the man. Come on man. There is a reason that video has so few views, no one should take stuff like the serious. you should not take that comment seriously. its meant to be a joke. the guy is hilarious. In conclusion: a tip of the cap to Nichols and Mcgrady that was a funny interview. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Looney playing tonight, wow, I wonder how much he can do. I thought he was toast. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
people have been waiting to get into Jurassic Park//Maple Leaf Square since 9pm last night. The way this is going there might be a 2 night stay to get into Jurassic Park for game 5. The Athletic has all their NBA podcasts for free during the NBA finals. https://theathletic.com/podcast/1-the-daily-ding/?episode=41 Its interesting that Leonard is acknowledging his injury publicly https://streamable.com/qo4px The "4 or 5 games off" he is referring to in this interview occurred in the middle of January. In the middle of February he also had 11 days off around the All-Star Break. | ||
JimmiC
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Kawhi is so fucking good. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
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On June 08 2019 11:45 JimmiC wrote: Yes that is why it is a shit conspircy theroy. And didnt make kerr look bad. Thank you for your agreement. its not a theory and its not a conspiracy. so i'm not sure what you are going on about. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
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patch him up and get him out there. | ||
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zev318
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JimmyJRaynor
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its party time boys! | ||
JimmiC
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PhoenixVoid
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 08 2019 12:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i hope fred is ok. its not a theory and its not a conspiracy. so i'm not sure what you are going on about. Its a conspiracy theory for sure. The dude you linked to thinks Pop is on a revenge plot against Kawhi (no evidence) and brought binders full of Kawhi info to a public dinner with Kerr (no evidence) so he could help Kerr win the finals (mild evidence, Kerr admits Pop helps him coach after he is out of the playoffs). The last point is 100% unimportant because it is uncontroversial prior public knowledge. Its like if I went on a 10 minute rant about Elizabeth Warren being a closet NAZI and happened to point out that she was a Professor at Harvard, and also that Harvard discriminated against Jews in the 1920s (both publicly available facts that aren't related to my controversial conclusions). | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 08 2019 19:35 Dante08 wrote: Haven't been following NBA but what's up with KD leaving? Lower leg injury. Could be out for the season. Could be out of GSW already. If you mean leaving GSW, he should. KD is all-time great, already surpassing Lebron as the best in NBA now, but he has got one if the thinnest skins in the game. Every player at his level for sure cares about their legacy, but he is unique in going to battle with it with random nephews and trolls on the net. So the popular opinion is his 2 rings with GSW have asterisks because he joined a 72-win team (although thats a shit argument from the start, for a lot of reasons - LEAST among them is how KD is badly needed by the team now in order to win the championship. If you fault KD for joining GSW, then fault Lebron a hundred times over for doing the pussiest move in NBA by ganging up with 2 rivals in the already weak-ass Eastern conference at that, to ensure a clear path to the finals, until Kawhi yeeted him again and again). This obviously annoys him and he'd want to definitively affirm his one of the GOAT legacy. He could do this by going to NY next year, or, if Kawhi murders them in game 5, sign a farewell GSW contract and win the championship for GSW next year and go to NY in the 2020 season. | ||
BlackJack
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BlackJack
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I honestly think the best move for KD's legacy is to stay and try to get a couple more rings. It doesn't make a difference if he spends 3 years as the heel or 5 years, he can still probably win the fans back when he goes to a struggling franchise like the Knicks or Nets and tries to win them a ring. The only question is whether his ego can tolerate 2 more years of being called a cupcake. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/nba/raptors-fans-line-jurassic-park-three-days-game-5/ | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 09 2019 06:16 BlackJack wrote: If KD leaves then the Warriors also surely keep their squad together and probably add more depth. Steph can go back to being the Warriors primary weapon and putting up insane all-time offensive numbers. KD finally seems to have surpassed LeBron as the best player on the planet but if Steph is left to his own devices and starts racking up more MVPs and rings without KD then that title might go right over to Steph. I honestly think the best move for KD's legacy is to stay and try to get a couple more rings. It doesn't make a difference if he spends 3 years as the heel or 5 years, he can still probably win the fans back when he goes to a struggling franchise like the Knicks or Nets and tries to win them a ring. The only question is whether his ego can tolerate 2 more years of being called a cupcake. I mildly disagree. KD has already proven he is the Warriors best player. They lose with out him, he is affirmed. If he stays, the perceived idea of the Warriors needing him hence he will stay to get them a ring is childish. He has already proven that. They lose, and he leaves, no harm to him. They win without him, then he has more reason to transfer and have a team of his own in NY and be the indisputable man! The one understated factor there is time. KD is not your, and will soon hit past peak. If he stays, he is not adding to his legacy while other teams and players (Sixers, Kawhi, maybe Harden) are getting stronger. The simple summary is he should leave after this season and form a team of his own. Heres another bold prediction: Leonard wins or losses this finals, he leaves. He wins, then he got one for Toronto, stop with this rubbish sentimental harping of him being attached to the city and team because of winning the ring. He is a professional whose main concern is having a medical team he can trust, and an organization that can help him win. It doesnt have to be Toronto. tldr: KD out, Kawhi out! | ||
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Elroi
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On June 08 2019 02:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is a nice look at the "game within a game" between Leonard and Popovich. Steve Kerr needs to learn how to be a better liar. Kerr looks so bad in this interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiYW_pdcYWA How does your theory about Ibaka being much older than listed look now in your opinion? | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 09 2019 18:16 Elroi wrote: How does your theory about Ibaka being much older than listed look now in your opinion? Does JJ actually think Ibaka is older than listed???! Its disturbing why this is a thing at all. Online trolls who bring this up do so with some dash of mild racism. As Ibaka said, Brazzavile, Congo is a modern city with modern record system. For comparison, no one will make the same claim against, say, Ginobili. For clearer comparison, Trumps birther thing against Obama. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
The Gasols will be the first siblings to be champions. The Warriors era has officially ended. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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https://streamable.com/w93p6 | ||
Twinkle Toes
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+ Show Spoiler + What are the good spots in town for wine/dine/nightlife? Preferably near Scotiabank Arena. Is Harbour Square Park any good? RIP Warriors In the first four seasons of the Steve Kerr era, the Warriors went 39-6 at home in the playoffs. Their trendsetting combination of bombs-away offense and suffocating defense generated the game-breaking runs that fueled the fervor of a raucous fan base, creating arguably the NBA’s best home-court advantage. This postseason, though, they’ve had a much tougher time. The Warriors entered Friday just 6-3 in the Bay in the 2019 playoffs. Two of those losses came in the opening round against the Los Angeles Clippers, before Kevin Durant suffered the calf strain that has irrevocably altered these playoffs. The third came Wednesday, when Toronto outclassed a short-handed Golden State to take a 2-1 lead. The Raptors added a fourth on Friday, dusting the Dubs 105-92 and sending a nervous shiver through everyone who’s been waiting for the champs to show up. Then the third quarter started. ”Kawhi Leonard came out and hit two big eff-you shots to start the half,” Raptors guard Fred VanVleet said. “There’s no defense for that. There are no schemes for that.” The Warriors responded to Leonard’s “eff-you shots” and held a slim lead with five minutes to go in the third. But the Raptors would grab the game by the scruff of its neck, closing the quarter on a 20-6 run ignited by Leonard’s excellence, Serge Ibaka’s energy, and a locked-in defense Durant’s presence unlocks the Death Lineup, providing the length, wing depth, and versatility necessary for Golden State to roll with Draymond at center for extended stretches without compromising the integrity of the defense. His absence means heavier reliance on flawed wing alternatives—an aging Livingston, an ineffectual Jonas Jerebko—or more minutes with true bigs who range from hurt to bad and who are getting eaten alive by Marc Gasol, Pascal Siakam, and Ibaka. “In our locker room, we’re talking about believing—everybody out there, believe that we can get this done,” Curry said. “Until the final buzzer sounds and somebody gets the four wins, we still have life and have an opportunity to win.” Belief can carry a team a long way, but it only gets you so far when the other guys believe, too, and they’re better. Right now, the Warriors aren’t the juggernaut we’ve come to know. Right now, they’re a game of Jenga, and the Raptors, and the injuries, and the toll of five straight years of 100-game seasons all keep sliding out, piece after piece after piece TR | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
On June 09 2019 18:16 Elroi wrote: How does your theory about Ibaka being much older than listed look now in your opinion? Now that Ibaka is coming off the bench and his minutes are way down he is definitely being utilized by Nurse as an aging player. The Raptors rotation is so tight and yet he only gets 20 minutes a game. I think Woj and Lowe made good points at the time of Ibaka's signing with TO. Athletes BS about their age to get more money or a higher draft position. Marv Levy even did it to get a coaching job. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
The Ibaka thing is racist as fuck. The only reason is because of where he is born, zero other proof. Ibaka himself addressed it and said it was racists and for people to stop. This is his at least third racist post here, he is perma banned from US politics thread for the same thing. It is probably just best for the rest of us to just ignore him when he does it because nothing stops him and he never would even consider the fact that he is wrong at times. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 09 2019 23:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Now that Ibaka is coming off the bench and his minutes are way down he is definitely being utilized by Nurse as an aging player. The Raptors rotation is so tight and yet he only gets 20 minutes a game. I think Woj and Lowe made good points at the time of Ibaka's signing with TO. Athletes BS about their age to get more money or a higher draft position. Marv Levy even did it to get a coaching job. WOW!!! I cant believe I'm reading this. Per NBA, Ibaka was born in 09/18/1989, and is currently 29 years old. JJ, please state your position clearly: in your opinion, how old is Ibaka and what is your source on that? | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 10 2019 00:20 Twinkle Toes wrote: WOW!!! I cant believe I'm reading this. Per NBA, Ibaka was 09/18/1989, and is currently 29 years old. JJ, please state your position clearly: in your opinion, how old is Ibaka and what is your source on that? He has no source, he is just stereotyping him because he is from the African continent. His proof is that others have done it in baseball from Latin America. This Bull Shit by him is so frustrating, I'm not sure why TL lets him get away with this type of posting. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
I really don't care about ignoring him or not, in fact I believe plurality of perspectives is always healthy. For sure his opinions are odd but they are no less welcome than others, even though and especially that they are different. But I am alarmed that he holds these bankrupt ideas in his head and cannot even be engaged in a rational discussion when challenged. Anyway, JimmiC, I'll leave that debate with him for you, as I really dont care what JJ says or does, I might even have a beer with him Monday night if he is anywhere near Scotia in game 5. What little I expect from JJ is he replies to my queries to a position he himself just made, and I repeat: Per NBA, Ibaka was 09/18/1989, and is currently 29 years old. JJ, please state your position clearly: in your opinion, how old is Ibaka and what is your source on that? | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 10 2019 00:34 Twinkle Toes wrote: JimmiC, can we report racist stuff and general misinformation and abrasive and deceitful behaviour? I really don't care about ignoring him or not, in fact I believe plurality of perspectives is always healthy. For sure his opinions are odd but they are no less welcome than others, even though and especially that they are different. But I am alarmed that he holds these bankrupt ideas in his head and cannot even be engaged in a rational discussion when challenged. Anyway, JimmiC, I'll leave that debate with him for you, as I really dont care what JJ says or does, I might even have a beer with him Monday night if he is anywhere near Scotia in game 5. What little I expect from JJ is he replies to my queries to a position he himself just made, and I repeat: Per NBA, Ibaka was 09/18/1989, and is currently 29 years old. JJ, please state your position clearly: in your opinion, how old is Ibaka and what is your source on that? Plurality of opinion is fine on things like who is better and so on. When it is birtherism it just needs to be shut down. I wish I could hit up T.O. for the game tomorrow but if I left now and drove all night I might make it but then I would be exhausted and have to take the whole week off work, not gonna happen. Just going to enjoy it here at home! | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On June 08 2019 20:13 Twinkle Toes wrote: So the popular opinion is his 2 rings with GSW have asterisks because he joined a 72-win team (although thats a shit argument from the start, for a lot of reasons - LEAST among them is how KD is badly needed by the team now in order to win the championship. If you fault KD for joining GSW, then fault Lebron a hundred times over for doing the pussiest move in NBA by ganging up with 2 rivals in the already weak-ass Eastern conference at that, to ensure a clear path to the finals, until Kawhi yeeted him again and again). This obviously annoys him and he'd want to definitively affirm his one of the GOAT legacy. He joined a 73-win team and you can't tell me you don't see the difference between joinig a back-to-back finals super team that you lost to vs forming a super team. Lebron did the latter. KDs move was way weaker, he took the easiest path there was. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 10 2019 06:14 Paljas wrote: He joined a 73-win team and you can't tell me you don't see the difference between joinig a back-to-back finals super team that you lost to vs forming a super team. Lebron did the latter. KDs move was way weaker, he took the easiest path there was. The Heat were as talented as GSW, LeBron is just a way worse for working with elite teammates. People act like, " not five, not six ..." was a joke. It wasn't, it was reasonable expectations for that group, and they massively underperformed. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 10 2019 06:14 Paljas wrote: He joined a 73-win team and you can't tell me you don't see the difference between joinig a back-to-back finals super team that you lost to vs forming a super team. Lebron did the latter. KDs move was way weaker, he took the easiest path there was. This is one of those topics that has a clear definite conclusion yet due to the nature of online discussion never get resolved. So might I suggest that we do this in a fun and different manner, ok? You present your best argument, I present my best argument. At the end of the discussion, the one with the weaker argument will concede and accept some penalty. I'll let you decide on the penalty. (Needless to say, we have to observe some conditions: we have to be honest, rational, and argue based only on evidence.) Game? So, If I understand your statement correctly, your argument is this: KDs joining a back-to-back finals superteam that he lost to is weaker than Lebron forming a superteam. Correct? You may clarify your argument if you like, and let's start from there. | ||
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
See below | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
The core issue here is determining the weaker move. or, to restate it in more specific and measurable terms, which player resorted to the easier way out (compared to both each others career and their predicament at that time). Item 1a: I'll start by addressing your (and every "snek" commenters) main contention: the 73-win Warriors. - Didn't this 73-win Warriors team almost lose to OKC in the WCF, overcoming a 1-3 deficit? YES/NO? - Didn't this 73-win Warriors team lose players to injury and suspension, underhanding them in the finals? YES/NO? - Didn't this 73-win Warriors team eventually lost to the Cavs? YES/NO? Item 1b: - Wasn't Lebron then considered the best player in the NBA? YES/NO? - Aren't Bosh and Wade then considered top 5 players in the NBA? YES/NO? - Aren't all three in the prime of their careers, and leaders of their own respective teams? YES/NO? - Wasn't it then considered unprecedented (therefore anomalous) for three prime players to gang together and tilt the odds astronomically in their favor (see clutZ point about "not 1, not 2")? YES/NO? Let's add another dimension to this. Item 2a: - Is the Warriors superteam formed by good team management and player development? YES/NO? - Is the Warriors superteam composed of superstars in their prime joining forces to unbalance the league? YES/NO? Item 2b: - Is the Cavs superteam formed by good team management and player development? YES/NO? - Is the Cavs superteam composed of superstars in their prime joining forces to unbalance the league? YES/NO? Preliminary conclusion. The point of Items 1a/1b is to assess the concept of "superteam". For sure the Warriors got the most regular season wins record in the NBA, but them losing in the finals proved that they were not the best team. Although regular season wins is a strong indication of strength, the playoffs are a different monster entirely (ask all those 60+ wins East team that Lebron massacred on his way to 8 straight finals appearance). Lebron's Miami, on the other hand, was created precisely to dominate the league and win championships. Again re: clutZ, people brush it off in jest now, but the universal opnion in 2011 was that Miami was gonna be the Bulls of the 2010s. That is until Lebron got exposed by (2011 Mavs and Spurs), and got derailed by the emerging Warriors. In short, Lebron and Miami was unequivocally the best team with the best talents in the NBA but massively underperformed way beyond their available talent and expectation. The point of Items 2a/2b is to characterize the nature of "superteam". To sharply emphasize this point, imagine Jordan calling up Barkley and Olajuwon in the early 90s, or Kobe asking TMac and Duncan to join him post-Shaq Lakers. IMPOSSIBLE. Those players wanted to kill each other competitively. They'd rather die than be each others teammates on the way to a guaranteed ring. Now on to the joining. Imagine yourself being Durant, what would you do offseason 2016? Stay with Westbrook and be in playoffs limbo forever? Join the Hornets? Suns? Nets? We all agree that he, or anyone else in that position, should make the best possible move. And we cannot fault Durant that the NBA income structure at the time, coupled with GSW organization management, made GSW the best decision for him. Lebron's forming a superteam on the other hand - an in-his-prime superstar who people were considering a GOAT over MJ asking other in-their-prime superstars to join him for a sure chance at championship is unprecedented and anomalous (understandable only in the small context that he is desperate to live up to his Chosen One image and win a ring). Conclusion: Both moves are equally weak moves, but understandable in the context of legacy and winning a championship for the players concerned. However, IF anyone should insist the one move is weaker than the other, then Lebron's forming a superteam is weaker than Durant's joining a superteam based on the reasons comprehensively given above. | ||
BlackJack
United States9273 Posts
Heat after LeBron joined were +175 to win the championship Warriors after KD joined were -125 to win the championship Warriors were literally favorites against the entire field going into that season. They were hyped to be the greatest team of all-time and with KD they are the greatest team of all-time. Hell, even before KD joined the Warriors were still the favorites to win the championship the following season. The narrative that they technically weren't the best team because they lost in the finals is bullshit. Upsets happen in every sport, it doesn't always mean that the team doing the upsetting is better than the team that lost. | ||
BlackJack
United States9273 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
You are practically saying this: Las Vegas preseason odds determine who the best team is. This is a bad take. I really want to focus on Paljas point because that is the core issue, but let me briefly address your point here. Two things: 1. Curry's supernova 2014-2016 once-in-a-lifetime offensive performance is so awe-inspiring that it's easy to miscalculate the real strength of the team. No doubt this is a great team, but it is a product of Curry's superb performance paired with his good-to-very-good teammates overperforming (Green, Iggy, Thompson) who have the correct ego and personality that makes the team all-time great. But that greatness is more prominent in the regular season that in the playoffs when teams can construct specific counters against them. They shocked and awed the league in 2015, but their flaws were (and are being) exposed by good counter-planning, such as 2016 OKC, 2016 Cavs, 2017 Houston, 2019 Houston, and this year's Toronto. How? first, Curry is a defensive liability against playoffs elite team offense. His gambles and reach ins may convert to a steal of a deflection against Lillard, or Utah or Clippers, but against elite offensive teams with good passers and readers like Kawhi, Lebron, Harden, etc, he always gets displaced, leaving his man for open shots. He also wilts against heavy-handed bruising defense (see Lebron, Thompson, Dellavedova practically elbowing and wrestling him on screens and pins in the 2016 finals). This resulted in crucial mistakes like him missing rotations on defense, making amateur behind the back no look passes on life-and-death possessions, avoiding the usual elevator and blocking Kaly's exit, much to Klay's dismay many times in 2016 game 7. This year, see how FVV, Lowry, and Kawhi feasts on his bad instincts.. His only redemption is that Iggy is a beta superstar, Klay is volatile, and Draymond is a defensive genius. KD's arrival in god-sent for Curry and his legacy. With how hungry Lebron is in the last couple of years, and how improved SAS and HOU were last season, Curry would have been exposed much earlier, as he is in this year's finals, that he alone cannot carry this team. I hesitate to say this but he is what we may consider a system-great player. His submission to KD since 2016 is not an accident. The 73-win season was an illusion, and hid the holes of the team. KD is NBA's and GSW's best players and plugged all these holes. This is being made objectively undeniably clear this series. 2. Lebron paved the way for KD. If Lebron didnt make that original bitch move first, KD, as well as other superstars (Wall, AD, PG, Kawhi) would all hesitate to be seen as team/teammate-selecting divas publicly (privately its another matter). | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
https://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/warriors/nba-rumors-warriors-klay-thompson-locked-space-jam-2 | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Kevin Durant Not playing in the NBA Finals has been the best thing to happen to Kevin Durant’s reputation. The reigning two-time Finals MVP has not received much credit for his accomplishments in Golden State because he joined a team who had won a title without him. That lack of praise seemed valid when the Warriors closed out the Rockets and swept the Blazers while he was out with a calf strain. It no longer does after four games against the Raptors, who are up 3-1 heading into Game 5 on Monday. Toronto has exposed the lack of firepower in Golden State’s supporting cast. Steph Curry and Klay Thompson scored 55 points on 20-for-40 shooting in their loss in Game 4 on Friday. Their star backcourt did its part; the problem was their other eight players scored only 37 points on 15-for-38 shooting (39.4 percent). None of his possible destinations have the same history of success as Golden State, or another superstar as willing to share the spotlight as Curry. The Warriors always knew they needed Durant. Now everyone else realizes it, too. That may be enough for him to stay. TR | ||
Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
On June 10 2019 12:59 Twinkle Toes wrote: The core issue here is determining the weaker move. or, to restate it in more specific and measurable terms, which player resorted to the easier way out (compared to both each others career and their predicament at that time). Item 1a: I'll start by addressing your (and every "snek" commenters) main contention: the 73-win Warriors. - Didn't this 73-win Warriors team almost lose to OKC in the WCF, overcoming a 1-3 deficit? Yes. Worth pointing out that they wouldnt have to worry about OKC for the next season. - Didn't this 73-win Warriors team lose players to injury and suspension, underhanding them in the finals? Yes - Didn't this 73-win Warriors team eventually lost to the Cavs? Yes Item 1b: - Wasn't Lebron then considered the best player in the NBA? Yes, unless you really like Kobe I guess - Aren't Bosh and Wade then considered top 5 players in the NBA? No, Bosh wasn't a top 5 player (but Wade was) - Aren't all three in the prime of their careers, and leaders of their own respective teams? Yes - Wasn't it then considered unprecedented (therefore anomalous) for three prime players to gang together and tilt the odds astronomically in their favor (see clutZ point about "not 1, not 2")? Yes, although they weren't the first super team Let's add another dimension to this. Item 2a: - Is the Warriors superteam formed by good team management and player development? Yes - Is the Warriors superteam composed of superstars in their prime joining forces to unbalance the league? Yes (I assume you mean the Warriors after KD joined) Item 2b: - Is the Cavs superteam formed by good team management and player development? Yes - Is the Cavs superteam composed of superstars in their prime joining forces to unbalance the league? Yes, but to a way smaller extend than the warriors team Preliminary conclusion. The point of Items 1a/1b is to assess the concept of "superteam". For sure the Warriors got the most regular season wins record in the NBA, but them losing in the finals proved that they were not the best team. Although regular season wins is a strong indication of strength, the playoffs are a different monster entirely (ask all those 60+ wins East team that Lebron massacred on his way to 8 straight finals appearance). Lebron's Miami, on the other hand, was created precisely to dominate the league and win championships. Again re: clutZ, people brush it off in jest now, but the universal opnion in 2011 was that Miami was gonna be the Bulls of the 2010s. That is until Lebron got exposed by (2011 Mavs and Spurs), and got derailed by the emerging Warriors. In short, Lebron and Miami was unequivocally the best team with the best talents in the NBA so were the KD Warriors but massively underperformed way beyond their available talent and expectation. The point of Items 2a/2b is to characterize the nature of "superteam". To sharply emphasize this point, imagine Jordan calling up Barkley and Olajuwon in the early 90s, or Kobe asking TMac and Duncan to join him post-Shaq Lakers. IMPOSSIBLE. Those players wanted to kill each other competitively. They'd rather die than be each others teammates on the way to a guaranteed ring. Now on to the joining. Imagine yourself being Durant, what would you do offseason 2016? Stay with Westbrook and be in playoffs limbo forever? Join the Hornets? Suns? Nets? We all agree that he, or anyone else in that position, should make the best possible move. And we cannot fault Durant that the NBA income structure at the time, coupled with GSW organization management, made GSW the best decision for him. Lebron's forming a superteam on the other hand - an in-his-prime superstar who people were considering a GOAT over MJ asking other in-their-prime superstars to join him for a sure chance at championship is unprecedented and anomalous (understandable only in the small context that he is desperate to live up to his Chosen One image and win a ring). I think the distinction you try to draw between KD and Lebron doesn't hold up. Both had to make a decision and both decided to take the one that would give them the best chances to win a ring. But if we asked who was on a better team before joining/forming a superteam and who had an easier path to a ring after that, the answer is KD Conclusion: Both moves are equally weak moves, but understandable in the context of legacy and winning a championship for the players concerned. However, IF anyone should insist the one move is weaker than the other, then Lebron's forming a superteam is weaker than Durant's joining a superteam based on the reasons comprehensively given above. I added some remarks in bold. In the first paragraph under "Preliminary conclusion", you compare the Warriors without KD to the Heat with Lebron. That is a faulty comparison in this context. You should either compare the Warriors with KD to the Heat with Lebron or the Warriors without KD to the Heat without Lebron. So lets do that: It was already pointed out the Warriors with KD are bigger favorited that the big 3 Heat by Vegas odds. The KD Warriors also performed way better that Lebrons Miami, having a flawless finals record, crushing the Cavs. In conclusion, the KD Warriors are more of a dominating force than the big 3 Heat, making the path to a ring easier for KD than for Lebron. Now, compare the Warriors without KD to the Heat without Lebron. The Warriors made two consecutive finals, winning one of them and had the best regular season record of all time, being lead by two times MVP Curry. The Heat without Lebron missed the playoffs in 2015 and got boundced in the semis in 2016. So here is my first and most important point that you didn't properly adress: KD joined a way better team and had subsequently an easier path to the championship. In the second paragraph, you take about the nature of a superteam and the distinction between joining and forming a superteam, so I will add my thoughts here too. Joining a superteam like the 2016 Warriors is less of a risk than forming a superteam. In the formation of a superteam like the Heat, many things can go wrong (see Lakers with Nash and Dwight), you have to be concered about the chemistry and force the three superstars to adjust to each others game. Same is true with KD joining the Warriors, but to a far lesser extend. You already have a working team and just need to incorporate one more player. So, my second point: Forming a superteam is a riskier move than joining one, making the latter a weaker/easier move. Last but not least, the fact that KD joined the team that he narrowly lost to (blowing a 3-1 lead) and what that means for the parity in the league. KD joining the Warriors did not only push them over the top in terms of pure skill, but it also eliminated the biggest threat to the Warriors in the west (but forming the Heat didnt impact the Celtics.) It also shows that OKC with KD had a legitimitate shot at the title, so I don't think its fair to say that KD would surely been stuck in the playoff limbo forever. So, my third and last point: Joing a team you narrowly lost too and eliminating the second biggest threat to that team at the same time is a weaker move than forming a new team with other stars. In conclusion, the only arguments (as far as I understand. If I failed to grasp understand one of your arguments, let me know) that support your position are: - 2010 Lebron was a better player than 2016 KD - Lebrons decision was unprecedented - KD had fewer options that Lebron These are all fair arguments, but I think they pale in comparision to the ones I brought up. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
In the first paragraph under "Preliminary conclusion", you compare the Warriors without KD to the Heat with Lebron. That is a faulty comparison in this context. You should either compare the Warriors with KD to the Heat with Lebron or the Warriors without KD to the Heat without Lebron... THIS is the faulty logic. Remember, the contention is that these two teams while sharing the general label of "superteams" are constructed in opposite manners. There is no "Heat team without Lebron" so to speak because Lebron personally deliberately constructed that team. This is the fatal logical flaw of those who argue that "What happens to Miami without Lebron!? Such a teams does not exist for any comparison purposes because the superteam debate starts with Lebron forming the Miami superteam. So here is my first and most important point that you didn't properly adress: KD joined a way better team and had subsequently an easier path to the championship. See my reply to BlackJack. tldr; the 73-win, 400+ 3pt fgm season by Curry was illusory, and hid all the little but exploitable flaws with the team (as exploited successfully by 2016 Cavs, 2016 OKC, 2017 Rockets, and 2019 Toronto). KD plugged all those holes. Joining a superteam like the 2016 Warriors is less of a risk than forming a superteam. In the formation of a superteam like the Heat, many things can go wrong (see Lakers with Nash and Dwight), This is revisionist and denialist at best. There is a reason why there was nation-wide Lebron jersey burning in 2011. The universal (not even majority, but 99% public opinion) opinion at that time was that the Heat was gonna win more than 6 consecutive rings. This is why Dirk became a legend and a true hero of basketball fans and players the world over despite his wonky basketball skills. Re Nash and Dwight, I have to hazard that you are on the very young side? I know this not from rumors or internet research, but because I lived the early 2010s as a die-hard Kobe fan. I know those years like the palm of my hand. Nash and Dwight were injured then, there was precious little expectation until they are proven to be healthy, which never happened. Add Dwights clownish stupidity and thats a bomb. you have to be concered about the chemistry and force the three superstars to adjust to each others game. Same is true with KD joining the Warriors, but to a far lesser extend. You already have a working team and just need to incorporate one more player. Again, see the illusory 73-win team. Additionaly hypothetical, insert Jordan to the formerly #1 1997 Pacers team, or form a team with Jordan, Hakeem, Payton, which one is stronger? Last but not least, the fact that KD joined the team that he narrowly lost to (blowing a 3-1 lead) and what that means for the parity in the league. KD joining the Warriors did not only push them over the top in terms of pure skill, but it also eliminated the biggest threat to the Warriors in the west (but forming the Heat didnt impact the Celtics.) It also shows that OKC with KD had a legitimitate shot at the title, so I don't think its fair to say that KD would surely been stuck in the playoff limbo forever. In conclusion, the only arguments (as far as I understand. If I failed to grasp understand one of your arguments, let me know) that support your position are: - 2010 Lebron was a better player than 2016 KD TRUE - Lebrons decision was unprecedented AND ANOMALOUS. It was a break from the tradition of superstars being competitive against rivals. It was the absolute wuss move - KD had fewer options that Lebron I dont know where this is coming from, but Lebron/Miami team as it was built was on paper and in practice the more talented and promising team than the Warriors. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9273 Posts
On June 10 2019 21:45 Twinkle Toes wrote: @BlackJack, your raising a different argument. You are practically saying this: Las Vegas preseason odds determine who the best team is. This is a bad take. I really want to focus on Paljas point because that is the core issue, but let me briefly address your point here. Two things: 1. Curry's supernova 2014-2016 once-in-a-lifetime offensive performance is so awe-inspiring that it's easy to miscalculate the real strength of the team. No doubt this is a great team, but it is a product of Curry's superb performance paired with his good-to-very-good teammates overperforming (Green, Iggy, Thompson) who have the correct ego and personality that makes the team all-time great. But that greatness is more prominent in the regular season that in the playoffs when teams can construct specific counters against them. They shocked and awed the league in 2015, but their flaws were (and are being) exposed by good counter-planning, such as 2016 OKC, 2016 Cavs, 2017 Houston, 2019 Houston, and this year's Toronto. How? first, Curry is a defensive liability against playoffs elite team offense. His gambles and reach ins may convert to a steal of a deflection against Lillard, or Utah or Clippers, but against elite offensive teams with good passers and readers like Kawhi, Lebron, Harden, etc, he always gets displaced, leaving his man for open shots. He also wilts against heavy-handed bruising defense (see Lebron, Thompson, Dellavedova practically elbowing and wrestling him on screens and pins in the 2016 finals). This resulted in crucial mistakes like him missing rotations on defense, making amateur behind the back no look passes on life-and-death possessions, avoiding the usual elevator and blocking Kaly's exit, much to Klay's dismay many times in 2016 game 7. This year, see how FVV, Lowry, and Kawhi feasts on his bad instincts.. His only redemption is that Iggy is a beta superstar, Klay is volatile, and Draymond is a defensive genius. KD's arrival in god-sent for Curry and his legacy. With how hungry Lebron is in the last couple of years, and how improved SAS and HOU were last season, Curry would have been exposed much earlier, as he is in this year's finals, that he alone cannot carry this team. I hesitate to say this but he is what we may consider a system-great player. His submission to KD since 2016 is not an accident. The 73-win season was an illusion, and hid the holes of the team. KD is NBA's and GSW's best players and plugged all these holes. This is being made objectively undeniably clear this series. 2. Lebron paved the way for KD. If Lebron didnt make that original bitch move first, KD, as well as other superstars (Wall, AD, PG, Kawhi) would all hesitate to be seen as team/teammate-selecting divas publicly (privately its another matter). We'll have to agree to disagree then. I think the Vegas favorite is the waaaay better metric for "best team" than the metric of whichever team won the last championship is the best team. I'm just kind of confused as to why you brought up the fact that the Warriors lost players to injuries/suspension in the 2016 Finals. If it's your contention that they weren't the best team before KD joined them then wouldn't the fact that they probably only lost the Finals because of injuries/suspension hurt your argument? | ||
virpi
Germany3598 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
@JC Toronto is a beautiful city! I used to think it was like Detroit or some wilder New Orleans, but wow! @BlackJack Injuries are part of the game, This late in the season, players are always injured one way or the other. But injuries are not the main reason GSW lost the championship. Green played in Games 6 and 7. The Warriors core was complete by then. Even if we take out the injury factor, 2016 Cavs gameplanned against the Warriors perfectly, which is why they won. Like I said, the 73-win season (along with Currys 400+ 3fgm, Klay's equally magnificient performance, Draymonds defense) masked all the Warriors weaknesses. OKC, HOU, tried to exploit the same weaknesses, but they just didnt have the firepower GSW had and this time, KD was already with the Warriors to plug all those holes. Think about, this present GSW core 8-man rotation is practically the same as the 2015 champion team. If KD didnt join them, they would have been exposed again in 2017 and 2018 in the playoffs. It doesnt mean that they are a bad team or they'll lose the finals - theyre still favored, but that theyre not the unbeatable team that the totally unbeatable 73-win season deceptively made them out to be. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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BlackJack
United States9273 Posts
On June 11 2019 07:44 Twinkle Toes wrote: @JC Toronto is a beautiful city! I used to think it was like Detroit or some wilder New Orleans, but wow! @BlackJack Injuries are part of the game, This late in the season, players are always injured one way or the other. But injuries are not the main reason GSW lost the championship. Green played in Games 6 and 7. The Warriors core was complete by then. Even if we take out the injury factor, 2016 Cavs gameplanned against the Warriors perfectly, which is why they won. Like I said, the 73-win season (along with Currys 400+ 3fgm, Klay's equally magnificient performance, Draymonds defense) masked all the Warriors weaknesses. OKC, HOU, tried to exploit the same weaknesses, but they just didnt have the firepower GSW had and this time, KD was already with the Warriors to plug all those holes. Think about, this present GSW core 8-man rotation is practically the same as the 2015 champion team. If KD didnt join them, they would have been exposed again in 2017 and 2018 in the playoffs. It doesnt mean that they are a bad team or they'll lose the finals - theyre still favored, but that theyre not the unbeatable team that the totally unbeatable 73-win season deceptively made them out to be. Yes, fine. KD joined the championship favorite, but not unbeatable, 73 win Warriors with the reigning MVP, reigning coach of the year, runner-up DPOY, and runner-up 6th man of the year. Then with KD they became unbeatable. Honestly I don't think anyone was making the argument that they were unbeatable, considering they had just been beaten. | ||
Disregard
China10252 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 11 2019 10:56 Disregard wrote: There goes KD, cred for him trying but that injury just got worse. Dang that sucks. I missed the half, but looks like he was playing some real ball | ||
Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
Both teams are shooting like 70% on bs insane shots and 15% on wide open threes. | ||
xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
Congratz GSW for a well earned win, splash bros were clutch down the stretch. Still, a bittersweet victory. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Get Well Soon, KD! | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 11 2019 11:43 IgnE wrote: KD's star is dimmed forever. He will never catch Lebron. It's all downhill from here. Might as well go be Melo 2.0 in New York. Hey, fuck off with that shit man. That's utterly insensitive. He has already proven he is better than Lebron in any measurable way, who cares about Lebron at this point. Whats important is that KD gets great medical attention and regains good health. On June 11 2019 21:23 JimmiC wrote: KD must be so pissed at who ever told him he was fine to play. Hopefully this does not wreck his career. Yikes. Cant play the blame game now JC. Durant had the final say whether he wants to play or not, but like I said, it was desperation time, and the competitor in him would rather be involved than sit it out, despite the risk. As soon as Durant hit the third three and Ibaka or Siakam kinda slightly grazed his foot and he looked at the bench, towards his manager, I feared something was up. Its a tragedy, I just hope surgery and medicine in general have advanced so much that this will be an ezpz injury like PG's. For selfish reasons, I hate that this will mean KD will be staying in GSW and the NY transfer has to wait. But as a KD #1 superfan, I really just hope he regains prime status. | ||
IgnE
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JimmiC
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Another silver lining is no one should call him a cupcake anymore when he came back and risked his long term health to try to help his team win a championship. And Inge of course KD reads this, TL has many many superstar posters, and even more lurkers. | ||
BlackJack
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 12 2019 00:13 JimmiC wrote: The one saving grace is that he is so damn good that someone will still probably give him the max. He is one of the few that is worth the risk that he get will get back enough to still be dominate. If anyone pushed him to play they are going to be so fired (agent, team doctors, Kerr if it was anyone). Another silver lining is no one should call him a cupcake anymore when he came back and risked his long term health to try to help his team win a championship. And Inge of course KD reads this, TL has many many superstar posters, and even more lurkers. Yeah, I hope this ends the cupcake thing for him. Although it really boggles the mind why KD finds it okey to debate with trolls and nephews online. Also JC, dont forget NBA scouts, analysts, and doctors. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
My bigger problem with Lebron, Bosh and the Heat was the a) clear collusion and b) not acting in good faith with their respective teams. Kawhi also probably could have used a fine, along with anyone else who fouls their own nest. Players keep saying they want to be treated like real businessmen, well, those sorts of actions land you in federal court in the real world. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 12 2019 15:52 Jerubaal wrote: Lot of TL;DR: in the last few pages. If you want to hold little personal grudges against players for their actions on and off the court, that's fine, but it shouldn't add major asterisks to their wins. Do I think Allen fouled the shit out of Ginobili? Sure, I do, and I'll keep bringing it up, but I can't seriously expect anyone to discount that championship. Same with Lebron and Durant. If you aren't happy about it a) suggest rule changes and b) realize it's never going to be perfect. My bigger problem with Lebron, Bosh and the Heat was the a) clear collusion and b) not acting in good faith with their respective teams. Kawhi also probably could have used a fine, along with anyone else who fouls their own nest. Players keep saying they want to be treated like real businessmen, well, those sorts of actions land you in federal court in the real world. If we are going back to that old topic, I'd generally ask to the people involved this question: What is the "weakness" in choosing to join a team with a good and proven coach? Personally, I think a guy like Kerr is worth a dozen wins or so, particularly back when he was new and other teams hadn't adopted his ideas. Pop obviously also. I don't consider going to well coached teams weak, I think its strength to accept good coaching. Also, if players are so smart, why have we seen so few truly savage moves? The most savage thing a guy does is leave free and clear in free agency. This is why Melo's trade demand was so dumb. Why not set yourself up properly? Do the inverted Melo. Lets say you are Dame Lillard after next season. You have one year left. The ultimate move is to do a public trade demand that loots some team. Then you simply sign with the Blazers after 1 year, and now you are on a sick team with tons of assets. The fact that no one has figured this out is insane. Obviously this doesn't work for all players, but what if Kawhii had done this properly? "Demand" a trade, get traded to someone for a bunch of unprotected picks, and a young guy with 3 years remaining (like Tatum), win shit wherever you are because you are awesome, then go back to the Spurs where you have engineered a 10 year dynasty. | ||
BlackJack
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 12 2019 15:52 Jerubaal wrote: Lot of TL;DR: in the last few pages. If you want to hold little personal grudges against players for their actions on and off the court, that's fine, but it shouldn't add major asterisks to their wins. Do I think Allen fouled the shit out of Ginobili? Sure, I do, and I'll keep bringing it up, but I can't seriously expect anyone to discount that championship. Same with Lebron and Durant. If you aren't happy about it a) suggest rule changes and b) realize it's never going to be perfect. My bigger problem with Lebron, Bosh and the Heat was the a) clear collusion and b) not acting in good faith with their respective teams. Kawhi also probably could have used a fine, along with anyone else who fouls their own nest. Players keep saying they want to be treated like real businessmen, well, those sorts of actions land you in federal court in the real world. Thoughts from my mind as well. Although Leonard is slightly different since there is a contention with this medical status. On June 12 2019 17:10 cLutZ wrote: Also, if players are so smart, why have we seen so few truly savage moves? The most savage thing a guy does is leave free and clear in free agency. This is why Melo's trade demand was so dumb. Why not set yourself up properly? Do the inverted Melo. Lets say you are Dame Lillard after next season. You have one year left. The ultimate move is to do a public trade demand that loots some team. Then you simply sign with the Blazers after 1 year, and now you are on a sick team with tons of assets. The fact that no one has figured this out is insane. Obviously this doesn't work for all players, but what if Kawhii had done this properly? "Demand" a trade, get traded to someone for a bunch of unprotected picks, and a young guy with 3 years remaining (like Tatum), win shit wherever you are because you are awesome, then go back to the Spurs where you have engineered a 10 year dynasty. It violates both NBA's inherent competition laws as well as federal antitrust laws (Clayton Act). Players can skirt on the tilting the competition a bit (Lebron's is the most shameless example of this), but team moves are generally nipped in the bud "for basketball reasons". On June 12 2019 17:51 BlackJack wrote: Really all you have to do to solve the issue is to get the millions of nephews to stop pretending like "# of rings" is the be all and end all of individual basketball greatness. LeBron was 25 years old when he joined Miami and was already getting the "King with No Ring" and "Jordan 6, Kobe 5, LeBron 0" treatment. As if it's a stain on his resume that a 25 year old had yet to lead Cleveland to a title. The problem with Lebron and his group is that he/they did this to himself. He self-proclaimed himself king before having any success to show for it. The one success that he/his group got is that realized they can take advantage of the stats/record aspect which they know was achievable for him. Him becoming full-fledged point forward after miami was them fully embracing this route to legacy while rehabilitating his villain image. From a brand perspective, thats a win. Don't get me wrong. He lived up to the hype, but his attitude and path towards achieving it is a little iffy. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
It's only a partial tear. Surgery successful. I wish KD a full and fast recovery! | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 12 2019 17:10 cLutZ wrote: If we are going back to that old topic, I'd generally ask to the people involved this question: What is the "weakness" in choosing to join a team with a good and proven coach? Personally, I think a guy like Kerr is worth a dozen wins or so, particularly back when he was new and other teams hadn't adopted his ideas. Pop obviously also. I don't consider going to well coached teams weak, I think its strength to accept good coaching. Also, if players are so smart, why have we seen so few truly savage moves? The most savage thing a guy does is leave free and clear in free agency. This is why Melo's trade demand was so dumb. Why not set yourself up properly? Do the inverted Melo. Lets say you are Dame Lillard after next season. You have one year left. The ultimate move is to do a public trade demand that loots some team. Then you simply sign with the Blazers after 1 year, and now you are on a sick team with tons of assets. The fact that no one has figured this out is insane. Obviously this doesn't work for all players, but what if Kawhii had done this properly? "Demand" a trade, get traded to someone for a bunch of unprotected picks, and a young guy with 3 years remaining (like Tatum), win shit wherever you are because you are awesome, then go back to the Spurs where you have engineered a 10 year dynasty. Would be interesting, but the ego's are so big it is hard, they would also be giving up a fair bit of money because their old teams wouldnt hold their "bird rights" anymore. It would be a interesting gambit but as mentioned they would have to have this plan and tell no one, or tell the GM and hope no one finds out because it is against the rules. Back in the day Joe smith did this with the Twolves, he signed a 1 year deal under market value with the promise of a long term the next year when they had the money to do it. The league found out and the Twolves lots their first pick. Not the exact same thing but basically players can collude and say who they want to be with and so on but if the coach, GM or Owner gets involved than its all bad. | ||
Jerubaal
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iX7
32 Posts
There was misdiagnosis at the least and wrong advice on returning to play at worst. heads will roll. hmm... | ||
xDaunt
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iX7
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On June 08 2019 02:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: This is a nice look at the "game within a game" between Leonard and Popovich. Steve Kerr needs to learn how to be a better liar. Kerr looks so bad in this interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiYW_pdcYWA hmm... this is interesting. Im sure theres a little bit of something there in Popovich for Leonard. Yeah nice catch, Kerr is a bad liar. | ||
JimmiC
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Disregard
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 14 2019 11:17 Disregard wrote: KD apparently going to miss the entire next season due to the injury. RIP KD. minor setback for MAJOR COMEBACK!!! | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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On May 28 2019 00:53 Twinkle Toes wrote: Time for a little YouHeardItHereFirst: Raptors win the championship 4-2. On May 28 2019 11:49 Jerubaal wrote: Let the boy dream. They also have a lot of defenders to throw under Kawhi. How I predicted the 4-2 Toronto Raptors victory - or what I KNEW coming into the finals: about the Warriors:
about the Raptors:
about the results (Raptors victory):
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xDaunt
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Disregard
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JimmiC
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Twinkle Toes
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JimmiC
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On June 14 2019 11:56 JimmiC wrote: Glad he looks perhaps ok. never mind they ruled him out edit: if I was a ref draymond would get like 5 tech's a game, dude talks shit to the refs so much! | ||
JimmiC
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ZenithM
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But that Raptors team is real. A lot of guys contributing to the win. Also yeah the huge delay at the end made it ridiculously anticlimactic :D. | ||
Disregard
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JimmiC
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Twinkle Toes
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On June 14 2019 12:53 JimmiC wrote: I'm pumped! And I think this means Kawhi stays! I have bad news for you buddy. But great win nonetheless! | ||
Disregard
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Twinkle Toes
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On June 14 2019 12:51 ZenithM wrote: As a semi-neutral fan that win has a kind of bitter aftertaste after Klay went down. The Warriors really played their heart out to the end with barely a legitimate squad on the floor. But that Raptors team is real. A lot of guys contributing to the win. Also yeah the huge delay at the end made it ridiculously anticlimactic :D. They wanted to give GSW a chance. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 14 2019 12:54 Disregard wrote: The biggest winner of this is Patrick McCaw, dude got 3 easy rings lmao Dude entered the NBA and has known nothing but winning the finals haha. Quite weird. | ||
JimmiC
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iX7
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On June 14 2019 11:40 Twinkle Toes wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 28 2019 00:53 Twinkle Toes wrote: Time for a little YouHeardItHereFirst: Raptors win the championship 4-2. On May 28 2019 11:49 Jerubaal wrote: Let the boy dream. They also have a lot of defenders to throw under Kawhi. How I predicted the 4-2 Toronto Raptors victory - or what I KNEW coming into the finals: about the Warriors:
about the Raptors:
about the results (Raptors victory):
everybody knew this would happen as soon as durant went down. it was a lucky win for the raptors | ||
JimmiC
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 14 2019 09:41 iX7 wrote: interesting how they mismanaged kds injury, from early in the playoffs until rehab until the achilles rupture and surgery. There was misdiagnosis at the least and wrong advice on returning to play at worst. heads will roll. hmm... If we are being honest, the Warriors and NBA need to be investigated for injury report fraud. Even if I think they probably didn't lie to KD, and what happened was unfortunate, they clearly lied to the public. They consistently said no chance of Achilles in public, initially had his return in 7-14 days, then game 3, then 4, and finally 5. Anyone who bet that the Warriors would win the series should have a valid claim of fraud against them until they release actual exculpatory info. | ||
Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
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Enjoy the moment while it lasts!!! | ||
Elurie
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JimmiC
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Twinkle Toes
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cLutZ
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On June 14 2019 13:20 Twinkle Toes wrote: Are the teams and the league in general obliged to report injuries to the public? I've never heard of such. You are making an angle on the betting side of things, and on that I seriously know nothing about, but do teams have the responsibility to report everything to the public, and not just to parties concerned? No they dont have to say anything. But, if they do say things that are not true, that may expose them to liability. Vegas has not taken this path with their precedents, but it is not good to assume all states will be the same, and in Europe there have been things that have resulted in teams getting warned. The US generally has a more clever legal community than most places, and since gambling is novel, someone is going to win eventually. Which will not be great. Court documents will show the entire medical history of players that bettors think misrepresented injuries. This is a big risk that people need to take into account. | ||
Grettin
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Twinkle Toes
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On June 14 2019 16:37 cLutZ wrote: No they dont have to say anything. But, if they do say things that are not true, that may expose them to liability. Care to elaborate? I'm quite privy, and very interested in legal coverage pertaining to media (say, what shit anchors can get away with and the legal obligations but owners to the league and the players.) If I understand you correctly, the presumption is that 1. Betting in some ways bases/depends on data from teams. 2. Teams bound to truthfully and fully disclose all injuries by state or federal laws or corporate policies within the NBA umbrella. #1 is true of course, but #2 is definitely not. AAMOF, teams have more incentive to be discreet and secretive about a players injury outside of the organization for gamesmanship and strategic purposes. But there is a valid argument to be made for truthful and full disclosure, and that is observing fair competition, but definitely not so bettors/Vegas can use this data. I have a feeling Im misunderstanding the details of your statement, so please explain if you can. Vegas has not taken this path with their precedents, but it is not good to assume all states will be the same, and in Europe there have been things that have resulted in teams getting warned. Which ones? The US generally has a more clever legal community than most places, and since gambling is novel, someone is going to win eventually. Which will not be great. Court documents will show the entire medical history of players that bettors think misrepresented injuries. This is a big risk that people need to take into account. People as in people who make bets/gamble? The NBA has no legal obligation or even connection to betting. That may change soon, especially since Silver is slanting that way, but for that to happen, NBA needs to reorganize it relationship with the teams since this will have major repercussions in player acquisitions and movement. | ||
zev318
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
The trade for Kawhi is brilliant now even if he does not stick around. They got the title but on top of the that the value of Lowry, Gasol, Ibaka has gone up so if they push rebuild they will be ok, Siakam, FVV and OG are some good pieces to build around. Expect a lot more load management going forward. Kawhi beasting in the playoffs proved it was the right call, and the TO training staff not only will make the Raps a more attractive option but will get copied across the league. | ||
xDaunt
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
GSW are in such a weird place now. Do they offer Durrant 5 year max knowing he won't play next year and might never be the same? Some one is going to offer him the 4 year max so they have to if they want to keep him. What about Klay now that we know it is a torn ACL? 5 year Max? If they offer anything less after what he has sacrificed will he go elsewhere? He is another that you know someone is going to offer him the 4year max even knowing he will miss at least half of next year. Bos also went from east favorite last offseason to who knows what this season. Irving to the Nets looks likely. Would Rozier resign? He seemed pretty done with the celts. Hayword was far from the allstar he was before the injury, does he get it back this year or is he like a Chandler Parsons now? Do they trade for AD and lose Tatum? AD has said he won't resign because he doesn't Trust the Celts front office. Going to be a crazy off season. | ||
iX7
32 Posts
On June 14 2019 13:22 Elurie wrote: So how important is home court advantage.... when the road team won 5 out of 6 games? Still is. Historically home court teams win 70% of the time.This is just such a weird series. On June 14 2019 13:35 JimmiC wrote: That is pretty crazy. I think its also crazy that TOs highest drafted player was Kawhi at 15! On the roster. dont be fooled, credit goes to Masai, as i have pointed out before for making this team work. These are the little things that professional scout and talent experts can distinguish right away and regular fans wont understand. On June 14 2019 23:49 JimmiC wrote: That guy is such a great story considering how hyped he was than how he was thought to be done after such a horrible knee injury. To work himself back to a top backup PG is pretty amazing. GSW are in such a weird place now. Do they offer Durrant 5 year max knowing he won't play next year and might never be the same? Some one is going to offer him the 4 year max so they have to if they want to keep him. What about Klay now that we know it is a torn ACL? 5 year Max? If they offer anything less after what he has sacrificed will he go elsewhere? He is another that you know someone is going to offer him the 4year max even knowing he will miss at least half of next year. Bos also went from east favorite last offseason to who knows what this season. Irving to the Nets looks likely. Would Rozier resign? He seemed pretty done with the celts. Hayword was far from the allstar he was before the injury, does he get it back this year or is he like a Chandler Parsons now? Do they trade for AD and lose Tatum? AD has said he won't resign because he doesn't Trust the Celts front office. Going to be a crazy off season. boston was never the favorite. I knew it from the start. They are a paper team. Irving is the worst possible centerpiece you can have because of injuries and his locker room drama. boston is a team that stacked on overrated player and got exposed in the playoffs. | ||
iX7
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JimmiC
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cLutZ
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JimmiC
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zev318
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On June 16 2019 08:08 JimmiC wrote: Agreed and the lakers are apparently the front runner for kemba too. unless charlotte doesnt offer the max, it'll be really hard to turn down a 81 million dollar year for kemba. (5/221 v 4/140) personally i think kemba is a terrible fit for the lakers. they already got 2 guys who needs the ball to be effective, they dont need a 3rd guy. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
The warriors played like champions and didn't go down easily even with brutal injuries to three players in the starting five. This really shows why they are so good and have been so dominant: incredible talent with heart and team spirit. I hope they can continue to build around the big three and win more championships. The raptors is a great story: they play smart team basketball the right way. They have so many likeable players: FVV, Green, Gasol etc. They didn't tank to become good. I hope Lakers crashes big time and sucks for many years to come now that they have traded away their draft picks. You shouldn't be able to win after mismanaging a team like that by only signing super star free agents who want to play together. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 16 2019 09:41 zev318 wrote: unless charlotte doesnt offer the max, it'll be really hard to turn down a 81 million dollar year for kemba. (5/221 v 4/140) personally i think kemba is a terrible fit for the lakers. they already got 2 guys who needs the ball to be effective, they dont need a 3rd guy. It really depends on your roster build-out plans. Obviously Klay, Kawhi, or KD are the best fit for every team, because there is no team they don't fit on. That said, and being unrealistic, Lebron and AD realistically need 3 point shots. Kemba is pretty ok in that cat. Danny Green is certainly an option that I don't think is bad if they strike out on a big name. Their choices are certainly very complex. Obviously in crunch time your lineup is going to be AD at the 5, Lebron at the 4. 3-1 is tough to know. If Kuzma is good enough to make crunch time your have a really odd defensive lineup, but prolly still workable if you get some defense 1 & 2. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
When this happens, it's like I'm delicately assembling a gingerbread castle and then some 4 year old comes along and smashes it to pieces. And then they make a bestselling jersey out of the ruins. | ||
Elroi
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On June 16 2019 16:05 Jerubaal wrote: I think a big part of the reason I enjoy basketball is because it is a system that I want to understand. I want to learn about the best way to play basketball. That's why I don't like when one of these events happens that disturbs the natural course of things. If something is not repeatable and imitable, it's basically worthless. It's junk noise. I didn't like the Heatles because I cannot learn anything from that as a way to how to build a basketball team. If I'm sitting there going "how do I build a basketball team", my answer can't be "Hope three top 20 players decide to collude to come to my team and then multiple veterans sign for under market value". Likewise, I can't tell a team "hope that a top 5 player throws a fit because his uncle wants to live in LA and allows you to trade one of the worst deals in basketball for a Finals MVP". When this happens, it's like I'm delicately assembling a gingerbread castle and then some 4 year old comes along and smashes it to pieces. And then they make a bestselling jersey out of the ruins. but there's your problem, seems what you want is some sort of 100% certain best way to build a team and there isnt one. situations change, people change, teams change, you have to be willing to adapt to those changes. i mean team building really hasnt changed much aside from: get high picks, sign superstars, get good roleplayers, have cap space. if you cant get 3 top player to sign at the same time? well maybe you'll need to settle for 1 and do something else. if you cant get a top 5 player who wants out? well shit get someone else? its like saying hey can i follow amazon's path and create another amazon? no? well amazon is worthless then. there is no 100% way to recreate something, but what you can do is learn about the little things/decisions that got them there. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On June 16 2019 16:05 Jerubaal wrote: I think a big part of the reason I enjoy basketball is because it is a system that I want to understand. I want to learn about the best way to play basketball. That's why I don't like when one of these events happens that disturbs the natural course of things. If something is not repeatable and imitable, it's basically worthless. It's junk noise. I didn't like the Heatles because I cannot learn anything from that as a way to how to build a basketball team. If I'm sitting there going "how do I build a basketball team", my answer can't be "Hope three top 20 players decide to collude to come to my team and then multiple veterans sign for under market value". Likewise, I can't tell a team "hope that a top 5 player throws a fit because his uncle wants to live in LA and allows you to trade one of the worst deals in basketball for a Finals MVP". When this happens, it's like I'm delicately assembling a gingerbread castle and then some 4 year old comes along and smashes it to pieces. And then they make a bestselling jersey out of the ruins. The best way to play basketball is just to be very tall and athletic though. It's not like soccer. Basketball is more like track in that way. And I like watching athletic freaks so it's fine, but I don't expect it to be some high-minded chess match. | ||
rabidch
United States20286 Posts
On June 16 2019 16:05 Jerubaal wrote: I think a big part of the reason I enjoy basketball is because it is a system that I want to understand. I want to learn about the best way to play basketball. That's why I don't like when one of these events happens that disturbs the natural course of things. If something is not repeatable and imitable, it's basically worthless. It's junk noise. I didn't like the Heatles because I cannot learn anything from that as a way to how to build a basketball team. If I'm sitting there going "how do I build a basketball team", my answer can't be "Hope three top 20 players decide to collude to come to my team and then multiple veterans sign for under market value". Likewise, I can't tell a team "hope that a top 5 player throws a fit because his uncle wants to live in LA and allows you to trade one of the worst deals in basketball for a Finals MVP". When this happens, it's like I'm delicately assembling a gingerbread castle and then some 4 year old comes along and smashes it to pieces. And then they make a bestselling jersey out of the ruins. You must be a San Antonio Spurs fan. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5471 Posts
All the best people are. | ||
Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
There's probably a million ways to build a champion. But having the best player in the league on your team usually tilts the scales in your favour more than anything else. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
If anything, the Spurs were rather unlucky. They won 5 times in 15 years. They could have easily won a few more. Soccer is a terrible game. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
even tho manu and tony are hall of famers, there are tiers of hall of famers, and they're definitely not at the top. | ||
ZenithM
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Elroi
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andrewlt
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ZenithM
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On June 18 2019 00:44 Elroi wrote: The difference is that gsw was/is an impeccably manager franchise. By Good drafting, player development and coaching they could create a superteam by just signing one player essentially. To me that is completely different from multiple superstars teaming up ro create a team from scratch. I don't see the difference of management quality between what the Raptors did over the last few years and what the Warriors did with Durant. Both were player-driven moves, if you say the Raptors lucked out with Leonard, the Warriors surely did with Durant. Again, I consider the GSW+Durant an anomaly and something that shouldn't have happened, mostly on the side of Durant, not on the side of the Warriors (perfectly normal for teams to go after the top FAs). The GSW pre-Durant was a really nicely built team, but if they don't get him, we're not talking about a dynasty today. I know you guys over here are more interested in GMs than players (a bit tongue in cheek, but there is a lot of precedent in this thread :D), but I still don't really understand why Durant went there. And I think he's not 100% sure himself to this day. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 18 2019 08:16 ZenithM wrote: I don't see the difference of management quality between what the Raptors did over the last few years and what the Warriors did with Durant. Both were player-driven moves, if you say the Raptors lucked out with Leonard, the Warriors surely did with Durant. Again, I consider the GSW+Durant an anomaly and something that shouldn't have happened, mostly on the side of Durant, not on the side of the Warriors (perfectly normal for teams to go after the top FAs). The GSW pre-Durant was a really nicely built team, but if they don't get him, we're not talking about a dynasty today. I know you guys over here are more interested in GMs than players (a bit tongue in cheek, but there is a lot of precedent in this thread :D), but I still don't really understand why Durant went there. And I think he's not 100% sure himself to this day. Because of coaching and players that accept it, IMO. Kerr is very good at having a system and getting the most out of players, and Curry/Klay/Dray all help teammates figure it out. Unlike Russ and LeBron they are all guys who don't have overpowering physical attributes. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
If one team is the product of team building then the other is too. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
The problem the guy had with Toronto is that he thought player tantrums were unpredictable. This is true in predicting any one, but they seem to be reliably happening, so people should predict that one will happen, and be ready to take advantage, if possible. | ||
StarStruck
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ZenithM
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Twinkle Toes
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 18 2019 21:36 ZenithM wrote: I came upon a thread on reddit called "[SERIOUS] Championship Shooting Megathread" and I took a good 20 seconds to realize it was not about a deep analysis of jumpshots in the finals Which sub? | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
The league is practically wide open! I hope KD gets his prime form when he returns. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 16 2019 16:05 Jerubaal wrote: I think a big part of the reason I enjoy basketball is because it is a system that I want to understand. I want to learn about the best way to play basketball. That's why I don't like when one of these events happens that disturbs the natural course of things. If something is not repeatable and imitable, it's basically worthless. It's junk noise. I didn't like the Heatles because I cannot learn anything from that as a way to how to build a basketball team. If I'm sitting there going "how do I build a basketball team", my answer can't be "Hope three top 20 players decide to collude to come to my team and then multiple veterans sign for under market value". Likewise, I can't tell a team "hope that a top 5 player throws a fit because his uncle wants to live in LA and allows you to trade one of the worst deals in basketball for a Finals MVP". When this happens, it's like I'm delicately assembling a gingerbread castle and then some 4 year old comes along and smashes it to pieces. And then they make a bestselling jersey out of the ruins. Sorry to say this Jerub, but this take is BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD!!! There is not best way to play basketball. There is no natural course of things. And not only are systems and circumstances difficult to imitate, but even if you do so, it never guarantees similar results. There three important ingredients to championship teams, but outside these, the teams' winning formulas are a different as can be:
People sometimes add "having good organization/team chemistry but thats some immeasurable sentimental bs. the Lakers 3-peat team hated each other. Jordan was hell on earth for the team, the 2008 Celtics atmosphere was poisonous, the 2016 Cavs were practically a tragyrama. Guess what, winning makes everything ok. So those three elements are pretty much it. Beyond that, teams can get lucky if superstars collude and join together, or when salary obligations allow teams to get. Make a good run against injured teams. Get good humble team-first players. Be a shooting team. Be a triangle team. Practically any contingency you can think of. A lot of randomness can affect a title run - injuries, player attitudes, game meta, team salary situation, quality of opponents, out of nowhere rise of random players, etc. etc, | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
Just /r/nba. I must admit it's not terribly good (the discussion is quite poor, a lot of the same repeated jokes), but it's a good centralized way for me to keep track of what's happening in the NBA. Btw on that topic guys, what kind of basketball-related content do you follow online, outside of the games themselves? I go on reddit for news, and I also follow BBallBreakdown and Thinking Basketball on Youtube. I sometimes catch up on podcasts like the Lowe Post too. I think "Thinking Basketball" overrates Curry a bit but his videos are really well made. Bballbreakdown's quality is uneven (he falls into the "cherry-picked plays to support your argument" trap a lot), but he has some nice stuff, like the film reviews with a referee, interviews with coaches/athletes, and he does explain well what's happening on the court on the cherry-picked plays . Ah and for highlights I watch Chris Smoove, lawl. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
But if I may answer your question, I stopped paying attention to them since 2014 or so. Everyone hated Pop and the Spurs back then, but then they have a "beautiful game" season and suddenly all these "analysts" are quick to feast on the cake. What I mean is, to be plain and brute about it, they're hacks who don't know anything more than the normal avid fan (even less so) but do it for "content" + Show Spoiler + ($$$) So this is a oblique reply to your question, but my answer is that I dont watch these contents in order to understand the game better (because who cares, I dont aspire to be an NBA coach. I get my fill of basketball content by watching and playing the game), but I watch them for pure entertainment purposes. Thats why I love all the ridiculous Skip and Stephen A. Smith stuff. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
I have no seen Smoove do highlights, but this is something I am going to need to look up! | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 18 2019 22:21 Twinkle Toes wrote: Prooblem with BBallbreakdown Nick's discussion with Ronnie Nunn is that Nunn is a corporate mouthpiece. He is not there to provide analysis of the play or explain the theory behind the referee's decisions, he is there to support the call of the refs that is being discussed and justify them, no matter how silly the justification he gives sometimes (bad angle, happened quick, gather step, etc...) [...] Eh, you know, I definitely have those doubts going into this kind of videos, but I think they're generally objective enough (in that I can find myself agreeing or convinced if I have no personal engagement in the play :D). They don't hesitate to call out obvious bad calls, and sometimes you learn rules/judgings on what you think should be obvious calls/non-calls but are actually trickier. But yeah it's obvious Nunn is not there to shit on his former colleagues, he will always try to justify why a call was missed, but I find that interesting too. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
I would sign Kawhi no doubt, no question, no matter the team if he would sign the max with me I'm there. Same with KD , even missing a year if he can get back to 85% Durrant he is still a top 10 players Kyrie, no thanks, let someone else pay him. He has injury issues, playing within the offense issues and teammate issues. I'd let someone else have him. Kemba, if I'm charlotte it is a no brainer since no one is planning to go there and he could end up their all time best if he stays (if he isn't already). Anyone else I'd be quite concerned, his efficiency dropped and given his size and style of play his speed is so important to him. He's still great now but I think the last 2 years it will be a over pay, depends on your window to me if you sign him. Klay, no brainer, I don't care about his injury. At his size to be able to shoot like he can and also defend like he can. He is the perfect complimentary player to anybody for anybody. He'd be my third best UFA. Butler, no thank you, so many minutes and injuries I could see it going bad. Then when you consider how he keeps rubbing his teammates the wrong way an injured angry Butler would be a disaster, not worth the risk for me. Boogie, YIKES! is he going to get back to how he was before injury? If he does is that still who you want as a max player? He has personality concerns and D concerns. I would be interested on a discounted short term deal, Max deal, hell no. Vucevic, yes but I'd be nervous, he improved so much the last 2 years he is still just 28, his D is now pretty decent can do everything you want out of a Big these days. Tobias Harris, depends on roster construction, his d is frustrating considering his tools. But if you have the D else where and need the spacing and passing at just 26 I think he is worth it in the right roster. Middleton same as Harris but different skill set Harris is better on O middleton is much better at D. I'f probably take Middleton of the 2 but it is super close. JJ Redick Hell ya as long as term and money is not crazy. Shooting ages so well. D'Angelo Russell there is warts no doubt, but he seems to have grown up a lot. He still has efficiency issues because he does not get to the line and his shoot can be so streaky. But his potential is right up there and he's just 23. A team that doesn't have a scoring star in a market that will struggle to attract could do a lot worse than Russell. Horford Hells ya, he seems to age super well and he does everything well and makes your team better. 2 years is a slam dunk and I'd probably go to three which is probably what it takes. Julius Randle Similar to Russel in the risk reward. But I think your worst case is that hes a great scoring big 6th man. If he could get up to passable Defense he could be a steal, not giving him the max but I think it will take a lot less than that. J.V. He showed what he could be in memphis similar to Randle but older, DeAngre Jordon your classic big, can't shoot but still great rebounding and rim protection. Shoots a high % because he knows what he can and can't do. But he can't pull another teams big out of the paint. A different era of basketball he's a great one in this one he is good but issues. | ||
IgnE
United States7681 Posts
Coming back from an acl tear these days is doable. Achilles is much harder, especially if you are big and jump. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
To me durrant is worth the risk because he could fall off pretty hard and still be effective, his shooting alone at his height is enough to make him a starter even if he is slowed a lot. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 18 2019 22:21 Twinkle Toes wrote: Prooblem with BBallbreakdown Nick's discussion with Ronnie Nunn is that Nunn is a corporate mouthpiece. He is not there to provide analysis of the play or explain the theory behind the referee's decisions, he is there to support the call of the refs that is being discussed and justify them, no matter how silly the justification he gives sometimes (bad angle, happened quick, gather step, etc...) I think that's a pretty unfair representation of what Nunn is doing. He OFTEN explains why he thinks a referee made the call they made, and also lays out what he felt the call should have been. You make it sound like he's on those episodes just explaining why the refs made a correct call, but he points out their mistakes all the time. He just ALSO explains why a ref may have made the call they did, which I suppose comes across as "justification" to some people. | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
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Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 19 2019 10:05 zev318 wrote: its funny how the celtics went from a team that people said could challenge for a title into a rebuilding project in a year. if horford does leave, i think the celtics reputation as a franchise takes another hit after already looking bad kicking IT to the curb. does any FA sign there? Yeah I called this out before the season even started. I didn't understand how anyone thought they were a contender, and I still don't. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 19 2019 09:42 Nemireck wrote: I think that's a pretty unfair representation of what Nunn is doing. He OFTEN explains why he thinks a referee made the call they made, and also lays out what he felt the call should have been. You make it sound like he's on those episodes just explaining why the refs made a correct call, but he points out their mistakes all the time. He just ALSO explains why a ref may have made the call they did, which I suppose comes across as "justification" to some people. Cite 3 examples and I concede my point. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 19 2019 10:31 Nemireck wrote: Yeah I called this out before the season even started. I didn't understand how anyone thought they were a contender, and I still don't. Semi-related, I really feel bad for Hayward. I viewed him as Ginobili 2.0 who was deceptively athletic. I hope he gets back in form. | ||
cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 19 2019 10:31 Nemireck wrote: Yeah I called this out before the season even started. I didn't understand how anyone thought they were a contender, and I still don't. Because Kyrie-Hayward-Horford with trash pieces should have been better than that team. | ||
Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
Here's six... And one call he agrees with. + Show Spoiler + https://youtu.be/a6uTaXVVwMs | ||
Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 19 2019 13:21 cLutZ wrote: Because Kyrie-Hayward-Horford with trash pieces should have been better than that team. No. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 19 2019 13:33 Nemireck wrote: Here's six... And one call he agrees with. + Show Spoiler + https://youtu.be/a6uTaXVVwMs Ok I concede, and happy that Ronnie had the balls to call out such glaring mistakes. I know I said cite 3, but I would have wanted from three different games, unlike this one. But yeah, you are technically correct here. Though this is a 1/100 type thing for Ronnie to actually contradict referees calls. | ||
Nemireck
Canada1875 Posts
On June 19 2019 22:33 Twinkle Toes wrote: Ok I concede, and happy that Ronnie had the balls to call out such glaring mistakes. I know I said cite 3, but I would have wanted from three different games, unlike this one. But yeah, you are technically correct here. Though this is a 1/100 type thing for Ronnie to actually contradict referees calls. You'll find plenty of more examples in their other videos. This was just so recent and easy for me to reference I just quick-referenced it. Edit: You'll also see better examples of him explaining why he thought the referee made the call that they did even though he doesn't agree with the call. You didn't get much, if any, of that in the video I shared. I think I remember one of the Bucks/Raptors referee review videos where he did quite a bit of that. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On June 19 2019 22:39 Nemireck wrote: You'll find plenty of more examples in their other videos. This was just so recent and easy for me to reference I just quick-referenced it. Not really. I kinda follow BBB and this is a rare instance of Ronnie disagreeing with the refs. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
On June 19 2019 22:39 Twinkle Toes wrote: The CP3 saga needs to end. He fleeced the Rockets and are now holding them hostage. I was hearing a lot about this from multiple shows on Sirius NBA radio and tons of ex pro's were on Paul's side no one was on harden's. To boil down what they were all saying is it absolutely sucks to watch James harden dribble the ball up, dribble it for 22 seconds than get back or defense or have a couple seconds to throw up the ball. You need to "feel the orange" and be part of the offense to get into the game. And that Paul doesn't want more shots he wants to facilitate the offense. They also said they would all deal with it if they thought they could win the Championship but once they realized they couldn't they would want out. The anti Paul stuff was that he is considered a leader when he has been in these drama situations on multiple teams and that he shouldn't have that reputation. But there was so much more about how no one would want to play with Harden. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
CP3's problem is that Harden's system kinda works, and they just need a good traditional-ish center (big but nimble, more Olajuwon than Shaq). I understand the optics of Harden lounging beyond the arc, hands on waist, with boredom on his face when CP3 is "leading" looks bad, but CP3 aint that guy anymore (maybe never was), and he deliberately kneecapped the Rockets with his stupid contract knowing that he is going downhill already. By the way, they are shopping CP3, only no team wants that cancer of a contract. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
I also think you misread what I wrote, they said Paul does not deserve the leader moniker that he got. But the bigger problem is that no one would want to play with Harden in that system. There was at least 8 ex NBA player that said the same thing yesterday and not a single one said they would want to play with him. You can think the system works, and it is clear it does to some degree, and Harden is a top 10 player in the league no doubt. But it makes sense to me why no one would want to play in that system and be expected to basically never touch the ball on offense and make up for Harden on Defense. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Ok I see and agree with your Paul leader thing. One more thing I might add, I forgot who said it, but Paul wants to be the Kobe-psychotic type and bark around teammates, but he neither has the talent nor the success to back it up at his advanced age now. About Harden, it was obvious from the ASW. But you see, they dont need another superstar, they just need perfect fits into Harden's game. It's not for everyone, but all his present teammates - PJ, EG, Capela, etc. all thrive around and love Harden. Add Ariza to the mix. If youre another superstar, youd hate Harden too because you'll never get to touch the ball. It doesnt mean that Harden is a bad player, it just means that he needs a different kind of team. I really think they are only 2 pieces away from a ring, a 5 who can defend that paint and run with them as well, and a traditional 1 who can share the offensive load with Harden when he is in rest mode. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Do they love him and playing with him? I would suspect if everyone loved Harden and hated Paul it wouldn't be a big deal, I suspect some agree with Paul, maybe even most, and this is what is creating the issue. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27008482/sources-griz-trade-conley-jazz-3-picks Edit: my first way to early bold prediction is that the Jazz finish with the 1 seed in the west. | ||
Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
Tucker and Ariza have written about Harden. EG has publicly stated he is a lifer because of Harden. Happy for Mike Conley. He is one of the nicest and most hardworking guy out there. He deserves better opportunities to succeed. I hope this is it. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
whether or not cp3 was worth a max contract is a different issue, but the rockets offered that to get it done | ||
iX7
32 Posts
Survey in spoilers, but post answers here as well. Answer these questions - 1. Age 2. how often do you play basketball per week/month? 3. position played 4. Your fitness level? 5. you play ball for? 6. How often do you watch nba? 7. How many times have you watched nba live in person? 8. how knowledgeable are you about basketball? 9. How do you analyze games/players? + Show Spoiler + Poll: Age 26-30 (3) 31-35 (3) <10 (0) 11-15 (0) 16-20 (0) 21-25 (0) 36-40 (0) 41-45 (0) 45-50 (0) >50 (0) 6 total votes Your vote: Age (Vote): <10 Poll: How often do you play ball 1-2/month (2) never (2) Everyday (0) 3-5/week (0) 1-2/week (0) 4 total votes Your vote: How often do you play ball (Vote): Everyday Poll: Position played 1 (1) 2 (1) 3 (0) 4 (0) 5 (0) 2 total votes Your vote: Position played Poll: Body-Fitness level Fat normal (1) fat chunky (1) Slim (0) Lean Normal (0) Lean athletic (0) Muscular (0) obese (0) 2 total votes Your vote: Body-Fitness level (Vote): Slim Poll: Play ball for for fun (2) semi/professional (0) competition (0) exercise (0) 2 total votes Your vote: Play ball for (Vote): semi/professional Poll: How often do you watch nba Everyday (1) Only my team's games (1) Whoever is on tv (1) Only youtube highlights (0) Never (0) 3 total votes Your vote: How often do you watch nba (Vote): Everyday Poll: 7. How many times have you watched nba live in person? 0 (3) 1-5 (0) 6-10 (0) 11-30 (0) >31 (0) 3 total votes Your vote: 7. How many times have you watched nba live in person? Poll: How knowledgeable are you just a good player (1) normal player for fun (1) Can be an college coach (0) Can be a highschool coach (0) can be leader in competitive games (0) can be leader in pickup games (0) 2 total votes Your vote: How knowledgeable are you (Vote): Can be an college coach Poll: How do you analyze games//players eye-test and observation (2) advanced stats (1) Individual performance (0) Vanilla stats (0) others (0) 3 total votes Your vote: How do you analyze games//players (Vote): Individual performance Me- 1. 25 2. How often - almost everyday 3. position - 1 or 2 4. body-fitness - lean athletic 5. Play ball for - competition-exercise 6. watch nba - almost everyday 7. watch live - about 30-40 each season 8. Knowledge - could be competitive coach 9. how to analyze - aggregate of many advanced stats and keen eye test with players info | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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JimmiC
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On June 21 2019 07:19 JimmiC wrote: Min trades for 6th with their 11th and saric, thought is they want one of the top 3 pgs. if i saw this earlier i wouldve asked u think they've given up on jones? if thibs was still the coach i would say yes | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-raptors-president-masai-ujiri-produced-id-before-altercation-with/ Nice reporting and research by the Globe and Mail's Robyn Doolittle. She retweeted Greg Wiener's comment about the OPD and update the article linked above nine hours ago. | ||
virpi
Germany3598 Posts
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zev318
Canada4304 Posts
On June 22 2019 07:04 virpi wrote: Damn, NO could be a serious contender in a few years, if their players develop well and they get some team chemistry going. of course they will develop well, they're not on the lakers anymore. just look at randle and russell. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19551 Posts
On June 22 2019 07:04 virpi wrote: Damn, NO could be a serious contender in a few years, if their players develop well and they get some team chemistry going. Yea, well, that is a lot of teams. Look at the Hawks and Bulls. Most these young teams will end up sucking in the end. | ||
virpi
Germany3598 Posts
On June 22 2019 16:58 cLutZ wrote: Yea, well, that is a lot of teams. Look at the Hawks and Bulls. Most these young teams will end up sucking in the end. Definitely. Nobody would have predicted a GSW dynasty in 2011. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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The Starboy
22 Posts
On June 25 2019 13:13 Jerubaal wrote: Giannis got his MVP, now let's see if he can get a jumpshot. LMAO! We will see his improvement next year. Right now he's been going to the gym training with kobe, I hope that jumpshot of his counts | ||
ZenithM
France15952 Posts
To me that makes him more unstoppable than getting a decent spot-up 3. But it's also arguably a harder shot :D. | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
Recently, the Mayor of Toronto and the Raptors "Superfan" had a "give Kawhi Leonard some privacy and space" press conference. LOL | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
I'm going to go with Dwight because people always seem to want size even with his back and locker room issues, but if neither played that wouldn't shock me either. | ||
zev318
Canada4304 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada15564 Posts
The witness accounts in the Globe and Mail article which are more favourable to Ujiri still give the NBA enough to render some form of punishment to the Raptors president. At this point, I think Houston is just "shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic". https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27061860/rockets-shop-capela-gordon-space | ||
JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
Now the question is do they end up with Kawhi or Butler. It really sucks that the Lakers can just be bad as fuck at running a team but because they are the Lakers and players want to play their. | ||
Jerubaal
United States7675 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22813 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
I think the comparison to MMA/fighting is off because those are 1v1 events with elements that could completely end the competition dead in the middle (KO, submission, etc.) Plus in team games with actual duration of times, the game is drawn out fully that contingencies and dynamics even out the random odd events found in 1v1 combat sports. Also, lets continue the discussion here. | ||
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