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How Golden State reclaimed its juggernaut style
It can be hard to see that juggernaut -- to close your eyes and see it -- when Durant plays. That was almost the point of signing him. He could blend with Steve Kerr's share-the-wealth ethos, but also enable a more traditional style. It has been good sport to poke fun at the "Kumbaya Kerr" egalitarian offense, but the results have proved Kerr right. Unleashing Curry and Thompson as cutters has paid dividends beyond keeping role players involved and happy enough to try hard on defense. "They cause a lot of confusion," Meyers Leonard says days after the Warriors swept Portland. "It's incredibly difficult to be a help defender and then be up at the screen. It feels awkward. Help defense against the Warriors is totally different when they are playing that old Warriors style. It's not normal. You never know what's coming." ESPN
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Time for a little YouHeardItHereFirst:
Durant's injury is more serious than it seems and he is taking the season off. Kawhi reaches Jordan level GOATness in the finals series Kawhi et al break the Warriors false juggernaut-core mythos, they need Durant after all. Durant is redeemed, goes to NYK to claim one for the Mecca of Basketball. The Warriors monster is slain. Curry et al need to find a new challenge. Warriors break up. Green goes somewhere (Portland). Thompson goes somewhere else. Curry stays. Order is restored.
Raptors win the championship 4-2.
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INVITATION
Me and some friends will have a Funday Sunday on June 2. Activities include afternoon pickup games at a local gym, then beer and bbq Game 2 drunk watching! Venue: NY area, anyone near, or far, is invited. JimmiC, Jerubaal, Seeker, JJR, clutZ, tl/nba regulars, are you near? Anyone else from NY, or even Canada? PM me for details.
Poll: Join the party?convince me some more (2) 40% no (2) 40% GO! (1) 20% 5 total votes Your vote: Join the party? (Vote): GO! (Vote): no (Vote): convince me some more
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I'm halfway across the country. Unless your party has $10000 of coke, I'm afraid I cannot justify such a trip.
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I'm just way to far away sorry mate.
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Thanks, next time maybe.then
Everyone else feel jittery about the finals??? I feel like epic history is gonna be made. NBA should really have a 1 week gap either between RS and PO or PO and Finals, when it can hold the Awards. I mean the awards last year got good numbers, but seriously nobody really cares anymore about it at that point.
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On May 27 2019 02:56 cLutZ wrote: Who was the one who hated on VanFleet for like 4 straight months? Well, not to defend that guy (whoever he is) but FVV played extremely bad for a long time then he played super good for no reason. We all try to look smart by analyzing what is going on, but that is just impossible to predict.
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I mean that tends to be what happens people who are cold get hot and vice versa over time they regress (or egress?) to their mean. It is like with Danny Green I fully anticipate him shooting well again this series.
I have TO in 6 with Durrant making it back but that not being enough. I'll save other bold predictions for the offseason!
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I have TO in 6 without Durant. With Durant, Toronto's support will be stretched considerably and with Kawhi on KD,the core will have a fest. WIthout KD, I think Lowry, Green, Serge, Gasol, and Siakam can do enough to minimize the Warriors offense while Kawhi carries them offensively.
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if toronto wins, its because a lot of things went wrong for the warriors and a lot of things went right for the raptors, which i cant see being the case. warriors have a lot of good defenders to throw at kawhi, more than any other team they have faced so far in the playoffs, so lets hope the bench continues to carry a big load and maybe someone will find danny green alive somewhere during the finals.
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On May 28 2019 09:48 zev318 wrote: if toronto wins, its because a lot of things went wrong for the warriors and a lot of things went right for the raptors, which i cant see being the case. warriors have a lot of good defenders to throw at kawhi, more than any other team they have faced so far in the playoffs, so lets hope the bench continues to carry a big load and maybe someone will find danny green alive somewhere during the finals.
Let the boy dream.
They also have a lot of defenders to throw under Kawhi.
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A Durant-less Cousins-less GSW doesn't have that many threats. I think we're underestimating how bad Portland's defense was (aside from Game 1, it's mainly due to the lineup, nothing much more they can do) . The defensive dropoff after Harkless is insane: Lillard, McCollum and Kanter are all minus defenders (with Lillard approaching average when he's focused), undersized and/or slow. The dropoff after Kawhi is much lesser. There is a ton of high defensive IQ players in that Raptors team, with the defensive accolades to go with it.
I think the Raptors would be favored if Durant/Cousins never returned. Depends on how soon they're available, but the Raptors have an insane opportunity to win early games in the series, at home. It will take some above-average contribution from 1 or 2 of their bench guys though, for sure. Would be nice if Danny Green found his shot sometime soon :D.
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On May 28 2019 11:49 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2019 09:48 zev318 wrote: if toronto wins, its because a lot of things went wrong for the warriors and a lot of things went right for the raptors, which i cant see being the case. warriors have a lot of good defenders to throw at kawhi, more than any other team they have faced so far in the playoffs, so lets hope the bench continues to carry a big load and maybe someone will find danny green alive somewhere during the finals. Let the boy dream. They also have a lot of defenders to throw under Kawhi. LOLOLOL. The good thing is Kawhi can have his redemption run against the Warriors now.
@zev, Ive seen the impossible happen. 2016, up 3-0 with possibly the best offensive scheme in NBA history and an elite defense as well, And yet the Warriors lost. But that's not even the worst case of WTFJUSTHAPPENED in NBA. I personally witnessed the almighty Lakers lose to a shit Pistons team in 2004. The narrative has changed now, but everyone expected it to go no further than game 5. And yet the opposite happened. People point to injuries and the feud and all the chaos within the 2004 Lakers now, but they were royal roading their way to the championship against Hakeem's Rockets, the semi-dynasty Spurs, and the strongish Garnett Wolves. It took me a full week to get out of bed and finally accept the reality that prime Kobe-Shaq plus Payton and Malone lost to a Y-level Detroit team, but after that, I knew anything is possible in basketball.
That said, I think you are underestimating modern NBA proprietary analytics. Without Durant and Cousins, these Raptors, especially Kawhi, have a fair chance to defeat the Warriors. Raptors win 4-2*
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God how I want the Raptors to beat the Warriors. Kawhi bringing the first title to Toronto would just be so awesome, especially if it came at the expense of the Warriors breaking up. That's peak 30for30 material.
Let's go Raptors!
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On May 28 2019 21:43 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2019 11:49 Jerubaal wrote:On May 28 2019 09:48 zev318 wrote: if toronto wins, its because a lot of things went wrong for the warriors and a lot of things went right for the raptors, which i cant see being the case. warriors have a lot of good defenders to throw at kawhi, more than any other team they have faced so far in the playoffs, so lets hope the bench continues to carry a big load and maybe someone will find danny green alive somewhere during the finals. Let the boy dream. They also have a lot of defenders to throw under Kawhi. LOLOLOL. The good thing is Kawhi can have his redemption run against the Warriors now. @zev, Ive seen the impossible happen. 2016, up 3-0 with possibly the best offensive scheme in NBA history and an elite defense as well, And yet the Warriors lost. But that's not even the worst case of WTFJUSTHAPPENED in NBA. I personally witnessed the almighty Lakers lose to a shit Pistons team in 2004. The narrative has changed now, but everyone expected it to go no further than game 5. And yet the opposite happened. People point to injuries and the feud and all the chaos within the 2004 Lakers now, but they were royal roading their way to the championship against Hakeem's Rockets, the semi-dynasty Spurs, and the strongish Garnett Wolves. It took me a full week to get out of bed and finally accept the reality that prime Kobe-Shaq plus Payton and Malone lost to a Y-level Detroit team, but after that, I knew anything is possible in basketball. That said, I think you are underestimating modern NBA proprietary analytics. Without Durant and Cousins, these Raptors, especially Kawhi, have a fair chance to defeat the Warriors. Raptors win 4-2*
im certainly not saying that raptors cant win, but if they do win, a lot of things will need to fall in place for them. whether its durant not coming back for the entire series (he travelled with the team to toronto so i think he will come back game 3 or 4) or danny green hitting shots. i just think its fair to say that the margin for error is bigger for the warriors than the raptors.
i personally dont think cousins will matter as much, when i watched him play in the limited time that he was playing, it felt like he struggled to move. so i think even if cousin was cleared to play in this series, he would get very limited minutes.
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I don't know where all these articles about the "risk" of the Kawhi trade are coming from. You take that deal 100 times out of 100. You're trading a top 5 player for one of the least meta players in the league. Worst case scenario, you lose your rental and start the rebuild that you would have had to do anyway without the extra baggage of having to purposely get rid of DD.
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On May 29 2019 09:55 zev318 wrote: im certainly not saying that raptors cant win, but if they do win, a lot of things will need to fall in place for them. whether its durant not coming back for the entire series (he travelled with the team to toronto so i think he will come back game 3 or 4) or danny green hitting shots. i just think its fair to say that the margin for error is bigger for the warriors than the raptors.
i personally dont think cousins will matter as much, when i watched him play in the limited time that he was playing, it felt like he struggled to move. so i think even if cousin was cleared to play in this series, he would get very limited minutes.
I think we are in general agreement, I am just emphasizing the complexity of the concept of "impossible/difficult to win" here. As I said, for 2004 Lakers and 2016 Warriors, all of the boxes need to be ticked for them to lose, which is almost impossible, and yet it happened. For this finals. you already mentioned the KD, Green, and Cousins factors, I want to add Gasol, Siakam, and Lowry.
In summary, with Durant, it is Warriors 4-1 or 4-2 at best, without Durant, the Warriors are only slightly favored and there is a heavy chance of upset.
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On May 29 2019 10:03 Jerubaal wrote: I don't know where all these articles about the "risk" of the Kawhi trade are coming from. You take that deal 100 times out of 100. You're trading a top 5 player for one of the least meta players in the league. Worst case scenario, you lose your rental and start the rebuild that you would have had to do anyway without the extra baggage of having to purposely get rid of DD. The risk was very valid .
On one hand you have an A-Class superstar who was a lifer, wore his heart on his sleeve, played like hell in the last couple playoffs, and whose losses were attributed to being in a bad system and not having another legit superstar. PLUS he was then a victim of a vicious "business decision" betrayal.
On the other hand, you have an almost S-Class superstar whose goodwill built on previous seasons of talent-showcase, humility, and professionalism were bombed by the events of the last one, which is marred by: playing only 5 or so games all season, rumors from his camp wanting him to be a "brand" in a large market, contradictions between medical teams of SAS and his own, statements from well-loved people like Manu and Duncan not understanding whats up with him, and the overall lack of transparency in his communications to his team and the media.
Add to this the fact that DD was seen to benefit heavily from Pop's system, while Kawhi was now seen as an ungrateful primadonna who may actually have a career-altering injury. But yeah, success erases everything, and narrative is such a flimsy thing.
PS. Masai did not want to trade DD. Kawhi was simply an offer he cannot refuse.
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On May 29 2019 20:19 Twinkle Toes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2019 10:03 Jerubaal wrote: I don't know where all these articles about the "risk" of the Kawhi trade are coming from. You take that deal 100 times out of 100. You're trading a top 5 player for one of the least meta players in the league. Worst case scenario, you lose your rental and start the rebuild that you would have had to do anyway without the extra baggage of having to purposely get rid of DD. The risk was very valid . On one hand you have an A-Class superstar who was a lifer, wore his heart on his sleeve, played like hell in the last couple playoffs, and whose losses were attributed to being in a bad system and not having another legit superstar. PLUS he was then a victim of a vicious "business decision" betrayal. On the other hand, you have an almost S-Class superstar whose goodwill built on previous seasons of talent-showcase, humility, and professionalism were bombed by the events of the last one, which is marred by: playing only 5 or so games all season, rumors from his camp wanting him to be a "brand" in a large market, contradictions between medical teams of SAS and his own, statements from well-loved people like Manu and Duncan not understanding whats up with him, and the overall lack of transparency in his communications to his team and the media. Add to this the fact that DD was seen to benefit heavily from Pop's system, while Kawhi was now seen as an ungrateful primadonna who may actually have a career-altering injury. But yeah, success erases everything, and narrative is such a flimsy thing. PS. Masai did not want to trade DD. Kawhi was simply an offer he cannot refuse.
The injury risk was huge. I think the point is, however, the Raptors needed to trade DD & Lowry regardless. They were simply too far from having a shot at winning the conference. The number of injuries they needed to win a title was at like 6.
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Lowry, yeah. But DD was semi-untouchable, until the Kawhi offer came.
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