EPTFormula 1 Discussion - Page 48
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
On March 29 2021 01:51 Lmui wrote: Helluva race. Inject this straight into my veins because this is as hype as it gets. It's been a long time since I've been so hyped at the beginning of a season. 2009 maybe. We could FINALLY get Max vs. Lewis on equal machinery. The midfield is also super tight. Lots of great battles today. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6334 Posts
Still think Max should have given the middle finger to race control and not gave P1 back to Lewis. He did go wide at turn 4 when he overtook Hamilton but during the race he did it 30 times less Edit: would have made post race and the next race hype af | ||
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LennX
4564 Posts
On March 29 2021 02:10 zeo wrote: So the Mercs go wide on turn 4 for 30 laps and nothing. As soon as the Red Bulls notice the stewards are not doing anything about it and say they will start going wide too suddenly its not allowed any more. Still think Max should have given the middle finger to race control and not gave P1 back to Lewis. He did go wide at turn 4 when he overtook Hamilton but during the race he did it 30 times less Edit: would have made post race and the next race hype af What Max said post race was right. He should have just continued and take the eventual 5sec time penalty | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
Either way, that was an excellent start to the season. Hopefully things keep up like this. Tons of interesting stuff happened in the race. I guess as a lukewarm take, I think they should start every season at a track like Bahrain rather than Australia. Australia is a good track and it's good that it's on the calendar but it's a weird one that is hard to overtake on and usually has more passive races. Starting the season at a track that regularly produces exciting races would be much better. edit: Apparently Red Bull didn't have a choice. Race control told them they had to give the place back. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
That said, even if they had chosen, it was the right thing to do. Giving the position back ensures you don't get a 5s penalty, and there were zero chances of getting 5s ahead of Hamilton. Giving him the position gives Verstappen 2 more laps to try to overtake him, which he got very close to doing. I think if he had chosen a better position to give the position back, he would have had it the lap after. The choice was basically: Give the position back and attempt again, or don't give it back and ensure you lose it. I also think the wishy washy track limit rules were bullshit. That said, what an amazing race! If this sets the tone for things to follow, I'm going to be glued to the screen. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
Can you imagine if tennis was played under "the lines are in unless you would win the point in which case they're out gl" Crazy. | ||
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WakaDoDo
Sweden1183 Posts
On March 29 2021 15:58 Belisarius wrote: Are the track limits always so unclear? This seems like such a fundamental thing. These teams are spending millions for every tenth, obviously they're going to push as far as the rules say they can. Can you imagine if tennis was played under "the lines are in unless you would win the point in which case they're out gl" Crazy. You have no idea  | ||
digmouse
China6330 Posts
On March 29 2021 15:58 Belisarius wrote: Are the track limits always so unclear? This seems like such a fundamental thing. These teams are spending millions for every tenth, obviously they're going to push as far as the rules say they can. Can you imagine if tennis was played under "the lines are in unless you would win the point in which case they're out gl" Crazy. Drivers were notified that race control was not going to monitor turn 4 track limit, then half way through told drivers you can't do it any more which is kinda bad. However it was always stated that you can not overtake someone outside of the track, so there is nothing wrong with Max having to give the position back. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On March 29 2021 15:58 Belisarius wrote: Are the track limits always so unclear? This seems like such a fundamental thing. These teams are spending millions for every tenth, obviously they're going to push as far as the rules say they can. Can you imagine if tennis was played under "the lines are in unless you would win the point in which case they're out gl" Crazy. Yeah it's always been unclear, although I feel since Charlie Whiting passed it's gotten slightly worse. Almost every circuit has corners that you can cut/run wide on, and if there is lap time to be found, you can bet that without race control explicitly monitoring it, the track limits will be abused. Needed to be clearly either monitored, unmonitored, or else only no passing outside the white line unless forced wide, but otherwise unmonitored. I'm fairly certain Lewis got a win today because he was able to run wide for 30 laps before getting called on it. It's worth around half a tenth to a tenth, so 1.5-3 seconds of track advantage over Verstappen, who was going to the edge of the kerb every time. I'm pretty sure that if Max had caught Lewis 2-4 laps earlier, he would've won the race. That being said, RB had several things that cost them. Pitting Max late on the first stint cost him ~8 seconds, which had to be won back over the course of the race. A couple laps earlier on both the pit stops, and Max would've won the race. | ||
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bluzi
4703 Posts
Ferrari were still slow on the straights , not good to freeze the engines while still being behind on top speed, at least they had good traction out of the corners which would help in some of the other tracks.Lets see Checo drive from the front (he was only 0.3 behind max on those mediums at Q2 which surprised me a lot, risky call by the team which didnt pay off), I am looking forward seeing him running in clear air and giving the mercs some issues. All in all great opener , too bad its 3 weeks to go | ||
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Lmui
Canada6221 Posts
On March 30 2021 01:20 bluzi wrote: Listen , I am all aboard the Max train , BUT i cannot stress enough how good Lewis is , it was a crazy drive by him , and even though he is far from my fav driver , there is no denying that he is not just "driving a merc , what do you expect" as some of the haters spew , RB had the better car this weekend , and he still won , Max & RB should've won this race , the fact he didnt should put some ice on the notion that he is so much better then Lewis , I will no more doubt Lewis greatness , he held max back with those old tires with a lesser car , amazing drive. Ferrari were still slow on the straights , not good to freeze the engines while still being behind on top speed, at least they had good traction out of the corners which would help in some of the other tracks.Lets see Checo drive from the front (he was only 0.3 behind max on those mediums at Q2 which surprised me a lot, risky call by the team which didnt pay off), I am looking forward seeing him running in clear air and giving the mercs some issues. All in all great opener , too bad its 3 weeks to go Nothing against Lewis. The only drivers I think that you might be able to toss in that Mercedes and pull a win off in the same situation are Max's clone, Alonso and maybe Leclerc. I'm pretty sure everyone else would be too far behind to make that strategy work. It was Max's race to lose, but as Max put it a press conference, in response to a question as to whether or not it's needed for a team as dominant as mercedes to pay for a driver of Hamilton's caliber when George will do the same. Only found this, not the conference itself: https://www.racefans.net/2020/12/06/racefans-round-up-06-12-3/ Of course you do, because he will make the difference in the most crucial moments. That’s why he’s a seven time world champion. I don't doubt George is a talent, but he's still got a lot to prove | ||
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
On March 29 2021 15:58 Belisarius wrote: Are the track limits always so unclear? This seems like such a fundamental thing. These teams are spending millions for every tenth, obviously they're going to push as far as the rules say they can. Can you imagine if tennis was played under "the lines are in unless you would win the point in which case they're out gl" Crazy. Track limits are very clear: It's the white line. Whether the curb is part of the track or not can vary from track to track, which is informed during the driver's meeting, but generally it is not. What happens when you break the track limits, on the other hand, is not. Last season, they gave each driver a warning after breaking it 3 times, then a penalty on the fourth (Exception is if leaving the track gained you a position advantage. You either give the position back, or get a 5 second penalty). Why this wasn't implemented this race I have no idea. Here's a short video summing the whole fiasco up. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
On March 30 2021 04:23 Lmui wrote: Nothing against Lewis. The only drivers I think that you might be able to toss in that Mercedes and pull a win off in the same situation are Max's clone, Alonso and maybe Leclerc. I'm pretty sure everyone else would be too far behind to make that strategy work. It was Max's race to lose, but as Max put it a press conference, in response to a question as to whether or not it's needed for a team as dominant as mercedes to pay for a driver of Hamilton's caliber when George will do the same. Only found this, not the conference itself: https://www.racefans.net/2020/12/06/racefans-round-up-06-12-3/ I don't doubt George is a talent, but he's still got a lot to prove It should be noted tho that George isn't just any driver either. He's quite possibly one of the best drivers on the grid. He immediately beat Bottas on his very first race until the incidents. And he still, 3 seasons in, haven't lost a single qualifier against any of his teammates (except in that one Mercedes race). Mercedes might not need Hamilton to win 7 championships, if they've had George instead. But anyone else in that seat wouldn't be able to get anywhere close to his pace. And, as you mentioned, Hamilton just doesn't do mistakes. Exceptions with super rare wet weather races where he sometimes fumbles, he never spins on his own, he never crashes, he never runs wide or locks up and loses a tenth here or there. He just pretty much always drivers perfectly, and that's why he's 7 times WC. But I do think George is a good inheritant to his seat once he retires. | ||
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virpi
Germany3599 Posts
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bluzi
4703 Posts
On March 30 2021 18:03 virpi wrote: Hamilton has no real weakness. That's the scary thing about him. He's the best qualifier, the most consistent racer, one of the best tyre whisperers (imho only Perez is better), he basically never spins and he's also really strong mentally. Even in wet races he's one of the best. If his car hadn't broken down that often in 2016, he'd be an 8 times champion already. But Rosberg also did an exceptional job that season. I have a feeling that the Red Bull will not finish as many times as Mercedes this season. It's going to be closer than ever, but Lewis might still take the title. He's just THAT good. "the best tyre whisperers (imho only Perez is better)" - no way , the only reason Perez gets that praise is because this is a redeeming quality for him , not being a fast qualifier or having great starts , Lewis is the KING of tires , this last race shows what he can do with old tires and being under pressure. For the other post that says maybe Leclerc couldve won.... welp he is by FAR my fav driver on the grid right now , but i dont think he is at that level of driving , the fact that Carlos matched his race pace and did an arguably a better job managing the tires on the first go around makes it either CL is basically driving a new car from tires POV and will get used to it as time goes by and peak later on , or his race pace is OK but not great , in qualy he is one of the best if not the best , and you will see him out qualy the mercs/RB`s in some races!!! Going to be a fun season!! | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4039 Posts
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
Perez had tires that were maybe a lap or two from blowing up. Hamilton somehow went longer, MUCH faster, and kept his tires in better condition. No doubt that Perez is very good at tire management, but Hamilton schooled everybody that day. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On track limits, yeah it's getting to the point of being ridiculous. They need to get rid of the per-track exceptions. It's hard for fans to follow and creates far too much ambiguity in the events. You shouldn't need a law degree to interpret what the hell these rules mean. The definition of "gaining an advantage" seems to change constantly and is never enforced consistently. Hamilton cutting a corner the same way for 29 laps is not gaining an advantage but suddenly on lap 30 it is gaining an advantage? Get out of here with that nonsense. Either he was always gaining an advantage or wasn't. Pick one interpretation and stick with it. With the loss of Charlie Whiting, it does seem like rule enforcement has taken a pretty big step backwards. Sure there were a lot of controversial decisions while Charlie was in charge, but whenever they happened he usually at least could explain them in a clear way. With Michael Masi, there's always a ton of ambiguity and often his explanations make things worse. When he was asked about this weekend's track limits issues his explanation not only didn't clear up the problem, but made it worse. There's been several other cases in the past that are similar to this one. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8231 Posts
On April 02 2021 03:12 Ben... wrote: Turkey last year, Monaco a couple years ago are two good examples of how Hamilton can care for tires. On some days, he is just unbeatable on that front. On track limits, yeah it's getting to the point of being ridiculous. They need to get rid of the per-track exceptions. It's hard for fans to follow and creates far too much ambiguity in the events. You shouldn't need a law degree to interpret what the hell these rules mean. The definition of "gaining an advantage" seems to change constantly and is never enforced consistently. Hamilton cutting a corner the same way for 29 laps is not gaining an advantage but suddenly on lap 30 it is gaining an advantage? Get out of here with that nonsense. Either he was always gaining an advantage or wasn't. Pick one interpretation and stick with it. With the loss of Charlie Whiting, it does seem like rule enforcement has taken a pretty big step backwards. Sure there were a lot of controversial decisions while Charlie was in charge, but whenever they happened he usually at least could explain them in a clear way. With Michael Masi, there's always a ton of ambiguity and often his explanations make things worse. When he was asked about this weekend's track limits issues his explanation not only didn't clear up the problem, but made it worse. There's been several other cases in the past that are similar to this one. I don't think you necessarily need to get rid of per track exceptions, as tracks are different, and some are even considered unsafe unless you change the track limits (i.e: On some tracks, the track limits include the curbs, or you can cross the pit line entry like in Brazil). But the interpretation of the rules 100% needs to go. It needs to be black and white 'You can do this or you can't'. No "You can do this and gain an advantage, unless the advantage is too big. And definitively not if there's other cars around, as that would be defending. Forget overtaking. But if you're alone, you can gain 0.4 seconds on that one turn! Unless we change our minds, then you can't" | ||
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