EPTFormula 1 Discussion - Page 189
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Dingodile
4136 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8140 Posts
On October 27 2025 20:20 Penev wrote: What exactly is wrong about Lewis' penalty? If cutting a corner like that and ending up seconds ahead of the driver he was trying to overtake is not "leaving the track and getting an advantage" than I don't know what is. The problem is that Max first left the track and gained an advantage over Lewis. Lewis then left the track and regained the position. Because Max "gave the position back", albeit in a way that was unplanned, he didn't get a penalty. But Lewis got a penalty for the same advantage he regained that Max "lost" his penalty over. It doesn't make sense in my opinion. Imo, either both or none of them gets a penalty, as they regained status quo (ish, with Bearman kerfuffling in the middle of all of it). On October 27 2025 20:25 Dingodile wrote: I didnt watch yesterday but followed liveticker. I feel like Verstappen had a good chance to finish 2nd if Sainz didnt crash. He was about 0,9 sec behind Leclerc two laps before end. pretty much the same distance between piastri and bearman aswell at the same moment before VSC arrived. Yeah, it was an absolute disaster to call out the VSC on the last lap, completely ruining the end of one of this season's best races. For a car that was already safely behind the wall, on the slowest part of the track. I would have had heads rolling for that if I was F1. I think the call was done wanting to be overly cautious after the incident earlier in the race where Liam nearly ran over two marshals | ||
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ChristianS
United States3234 Posts
To me it looked like Max was going to give the position back but didn’t get the chance. Getting 10 seconds and a bunch of points on his license for that seems silly. Lewis probably could have avoided the penalty by slowing up – I don’t know if he’d need to give the position to Max or just back up to right in front of him? But it’s a moot point because he didn’t, and that makes the answer to “did he gain an advantage?” pretty obviously yes, doesn’t it? | ||
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Penev
28499 Posts
On October 27 2025 23:14 Excludos wrote: The problem is that Max first left the track and gained an advantage over Lewis. Lewis then left the track and regained the position. Because Max "gave the position back", albeit in a way that was unplanned, he didn't get a penalty. But Lewis got a penalty for the same advantage he regained that Max "lost" his penalty over. It doesn't make sense in my opinion. Imo, either both or none of them gets a penalty, as they regained status quo (ish, with Bearman kerfuffling in the middle of all of it). You mean after Max's overtake where they touched I presume? The difference there is that Max was ahead and had to avoid getting a Ferrari crash into his side pod. Look at the overtake and Max cutting the grass afterwards, look at their front wheels at both occasions. The overtake is legit within the current rules, the corner after, Max had no choice but try and avoid getting hit by Lewis but most importantly; He was ahead before going off, Lewis clearly was not when he went off a bit later. The penalty is not for cutting the corner, it is for gaining an advantage while doing so. The stewards argued, and I agree, that Max didn't gain an advantage (a position) and that he didn't went off because he couldn't hold the corner, but because otherwise there would've been a collision. The only thing the stewards missed, I think, was Charles cutting the corner in turn 1. There was clearly an advantage gotten there but as we've seen many times; Race control "noting" something is often just teams complaining when they feel disadvantaged and Ferrari is not going to when it's one of their own. And ofc the VSC should've just stayed a double yellow. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8140 Posts
On October 27 2025 23:42 ChristianS wrote: Didn’t Lewis also gain an enormous amount of space on track though? If you leave the track in 3rd with a big gap in front of you to 2nd, and rejoin with a big gap behind you to 4th, you still “gained an advantage” even if you’re still 3rd. To me it looked like Max was going to give the position back but didn’t get the chance. Getting 10 seconds and a bunch of points on his license for that seems silly. Lewis probably could have avoided the penalty by slowing up – I don’t know if he’d need to give the position to Max or just back up to right in front of him? But it’s a moot point because he didn’t, and that makes the answer to “did he gain an advantage?” pretty obviously yes, doesn’t it? I had a look at the official FIA document, that dives a bit into this. Firstly, it corrects a misunderstanding many had, which was that Lewis got a penalty for not following run-off route set by the race director. But he got a pass on this, because the speed was simply too high to do so. Then it goes into why the penalty was served, which was specifically for passing Car 1 (VER) and failing to give the position back. So the fact that Lewis fucked off and gave himself an enormous space behind him didn't factor into it. He likely would have gotten the penalty even if he had lifted and let Max catch up | ||
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Excludos
Norway8140 Posts
On October 27 2025 23:58 Penev wrote: You mean after Max's overtake where they touched I presume? The difference there is that Max was ahead and had to avoid getting a Ferrari crash into his side pod. Look at the overtake and Max cutting the grass afterwards, look at their front wheels at both occasions. The overtake is legit within the current rules, the corner after, Max had no choice but try and avoid getting hit by Lewis but most importantly; He was ahead before going off, Lewis clearly was not when he went off a bit later. The penalty is not for cutting the corner, it is for gaining an advantage while doing so. The stewards argued, and I agree, that Max didn't gain an advantage (a position) and that he didn't went off because he couldn't hold the corner, but because otherwise there would've been a collision. The only thing the stewards missed, I think, was Charles cutting the corner in turn 1. There was clearly an advantage gotten there but as we've seen many times; Race control "noting" something is often just teams complaining when they feel disadvantaged and Ferrari is not going to when it's one of their own. And ofc the VSC should've just stayed a double yellow. I had to have a relook at the pass from Max' onboard, and I've come to agree with you now. Despite a dive from 3 car lengths back, Max is marginally ahead of Lewis at the apex into T1, giving him right to shove Lewis completely off track as he exits T1 (Despite my annoyances at the ridiculousness of the rules, it's what they currently are). Then, into T2, he keeps himself marginally ahead of Lewis on the outside, and Lewis gives him no space despite having a right for it exactly because Max is ahead. So the position was rightfully Max' under the current rules, therefore Lewis did gain a lasting advantage, and the penalty was fair. It just didn't seem that way until one started to dive a bit deeper into what exactly happened | ||
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Penev
28499 Posts
Overall an enjoyable race, apart from Lando leading it so easily. | ||
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